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No one said he was a good ninja, could be he was just learning.
Its hard to be awesome, when your playing with little plastic men. Welcome to Fantasy 40k
If you think your important, in the great scheme of things. Do the water test.
Put your hands in a bucket of warm water,
then pull them out fast. The size of the hole shows how important you are.
I think we should roll some dice, to see if we should roll some dice, To decide if all this dice rolling is good for the game.
Orlanth wrote: The police are reporting it as a straight up murder and not terrorist related.
I don't buy that due to the MO. Frankly I think the police would say its not a terrorist attack even if he shouted Allah Akbar while beheading his victim, further copy cat attacks are the last thing the government wants.
He also beheaded a cat... "copy cat" killing you say? There it is.
Kelly502 wrote: Any murder of a non-muslim by a muslim is his answer to the call of jihad. ie Chechen cuts the throat of a bus driver while in transit in TN, it was treated as a local criminal case not an act of terrorism. If she was a non-muzzie then it should be treated as an act of terrorism.
d-usa wrote: "When the Internet sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending posters that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing strawmen. They're bringing spam. They're trolls. And some, I assume, are good people."
d-usa wrote: Religiously motivated killings do not automatically equal terrorism.
Pretty much this. But I think some of you have gone further, tagging all violence done by Islamic folk as terrorism. So let's steer clear of 'all Muslim violence=terrorism', it's incredibly insulting.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/06 22:56:20
I wish I had time for all the game systems I own, let alone want to own...
d-usa wrote: Religiously motivated killings do not automatically equal terrorism.
Pretty much this. But I think some of you have gone further, tagging all violence done by Islamic folk as terrorism. So let's steer clear of 'all Muslim violence=terrorism', it's incredibly insulting.
To whom? Secularly violent Muslims?
I'll wait for more details, but since the current climate in Britain is to do anything, to the point of ignoring crimes, so as not to seem racist, I'll take the word of their police with a grain of salt.
It's an incredibly asinine generalization. Is beheading someone that only terrorists do? A quick glance through wikipedias list of serial murderers seems to indicates otherwise. Is violence by a particular race straight away terrorism now?
I mean, sometimes people do incredibly sadistic things without being a terrorist.
My warmachine batrep & other misc stuff blog
http://sining83.blogspot.com/
d-usa wrote: Religiously motivated killings do not automatically equal terrorism.
Pretty much this. But I think some of you have gone further, tagging all violence done by Islamic folk as terrorism. So let's steer clear of 'all Muslim violence=terrorism', it's incredibly insulting.
To whom? Secularly violent Muslims?
I'll wait for more details, but since the current climate in Britain is to do anything, to the point of ignoring crimes, so as not to seem racist, I'll take the word of their police with a grain of salt.
Random machete attacks by moslem convert, yeah.
We didnt use to have this at all. Now we have had Lee Rigby and this event. Police have the scumbag who did it and are completely quiet about what he was said in interrogations.
Normally the Police vocalise motive to the press., its part of the info the public can know pre-trial. The silence here if deafening.
Also its about time we didn't have to have to shut up and keep our heads down in the event we might offend moslems. Nor are we 'racist' for speaking about machete killings and pointing out similar patterns in events.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/09/07 10:21:55
n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
I had written a long and well thought out response to the idiocy I encountered in this thread.
I looked at it after I was done and thought, "This is a waste of my time."
Then I just deleted it all.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/07 14:32:10
d-usa wrote: "When the Internet sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending posters that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing strawmen. They're bringing spam. They're trolls. And some, I assume, are good people."
It was just weird responses that gave us the warning, and then even weirder responses after that warning.
There is nothing preventing us from talking about his recent conversion, or if this killing was religiously motivated. People get perverted ideas about religion all the time which leads them to do weird things.
But we had some "Muslims kill because of Jihad" and "every time a Muslim kills it's terrorism" and "I'm scared because we have Muslims here too" posts which got a justifiable warning. And then a few "OMG we can't say nothing about Muslims because we don't want to offend anyone" posts that completely miss the point of the warning.
Talk about this case, talk about his motivation, talk about his religion, talk about his cat, talk about other similar attacks. Nobody has anything against that and I don't think that is what the warning was all about.
But if your argument starts with "all Muslims..." then you are probably starting down the wrong path.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/09/07 14:06:36
Orlanth wrote: Also its about time we didn't have to have to shut up and keep our heads down in the event we might offend Muslims.
Okay ... But could we at least wait and see what happened first? "Crazy man goes crazy" doesn't really have much to do with religion, and for all we know that is what happened.
Nor are we 'racist' for speaking about machete killings and pointing out similar patterns in events.
Otherwise known as: jumping to conclusions.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/07 14:37:46
Orlanth wrote: Also its about time we didn't have to have to shut up and keep our heads down in the event we might offend Muslims.
Okay ... But could we at least wait and see what happened first? "Crazy man goes crazy" doesn't really have much to do with religion, and for all we know that is what happened.
Nor are we 'racist' for speaking about machete killings and pointing out similar patterns in events.
Otherwise known as: jumping to conclusions.
It seems to be the pattern on these forums that if a crazy person, Christian, Muslim, Pastafarian, whatever, does something crazy, their religion is immediately blamed as the root cause. That is, if their religion is mentioned in the article, I should say.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/07 14:59:11
Orlanth wrote: Also its about time we didn't have to have to shut up and keep our heads down in the event we might offend Muslims.
Okay ... But could we at least wait and see what happened first? "Crazy man goes crazy" doesn't really have much to do with religion, and for all we know that is what happened.
Nor are we 'racist' for speaking about machete killings and pointing out similar patterns in events.
Otherwise known as: jumping to conclusions.
It seems to be the pattern on these forums that if a crazy person, Christian, Muslim, Pastafarian, whatever, does something crazy, their religion is immediately blamed as the root cause. That is, if their religion is mentioned in the article, I should say.
Machete killings at random are not exactly common in the UK, and they get the press attention.
However the majority of the mainstream press has been really slim on details
Even the local paper has very little to report on the subject
http://www.enfieldindependent.co.uk/news/
So I will not be surprised if the story has been sanitised, but equally I will not assume it has.
Keeping an open mind with the modern media includes reading between the lines and looking at non-coverage.
Orlanth wrote: Also its about time we didn't have to have to shut up and keep our heads down in the event we might offend Muslims.
Okay ... But could we at least wait and see what happened first? "Crazy man goes crazy" doesn't really have much to do with religion, and for all we know that is what happened.
What we are told, but the coverage has been exceptionally thin. In the press for a day then out with minimal cover.
Orlanth wrote: Nor are we 'racist' for speaking about machete killings and pointing out similar patterns in events.
Otherwise known as: jumping to conclusions.
I am not jumping to conclusions, I just refuse to be spoon fed them.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/09/07 15:56:20
n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
Orlanth wrote: I am not jumping to conclusions, I just refuse to be spoon fed them.
Making judgements based on accurate information is not being 'spoon fed', it's just prudent. Especially when those judgements are with regard to an entire group of people.
I found this report on the Evening Standard website:
Neighbours said a man dressed in black had decapitated cats with a foot-long machete-like blade and smashed the window of a car before running through rear gardens banging on doors and windows ... One told how he heard him shouting “the cats have stolen my lighter” as he hacked an animal to pieces.
Orlanth wrote: I am not jumping to conclusions, I just refuse to be spoon fed them.
Making judgements based on accurate information is not being 'spoon fed', it's just prudent. Especially when those judgements are with regard to an entire group of people.
Noone is judging a 'whole group of people'. Except perhaps you.
Problems with a 'culture' of machete attacks by people in the moslem community doesnt mean 'all moslems....'
It doesnt even need to be jihad related, its bad enough if a subsection of the community has machetes and uses them for this purpose.
Machete attacks on London streets is something that didn't use to happen now it is.
However you are critiquing my reasonable right to question why this is happening and to explore whether there is a connection, and that has been twisted into assuming this to be a condemnation of a whole people group.
Its a blanket catchall of our curent PC culture, and hence my comments about the only people judging a 'whole group of people' are those who spout this doctrine and label anyone who displays unorthodoxy towards progressivism.
It goes back to the walking on eggshells society does nowadays. This was the a scandal that broken recently. Why repeat the same tragic mistakes.
We should be free to explore whether or not the murder has a regilious connection, without being labeled as a bigot, or as some small minded people have put a 'derp'.
The fact that society can no longer discuss these things is half the problem.
There was a good example of this recently with the child abuse ring in Rotherham, which was not stopped because no one was allowed to vocalise the possibility that there could be an ethnic connection. To say that there was a peado ring in the Asian community.....you cant do that! That means you are racist, claiming all Asians are paedos hysteria, hysteria. etc etc
I found this report on the Evening Standard website:
Neighbours said a man dressed in black had decapitated cats with a foot-long machete-like blade and smashed the window of a car before running through rear gardens banging on doors and windows ... One told how he heard him shouting “the cats have stolen my lighter” as he hacked an animal to pieces.
Doesn't sound very 'Halal'...
Cat chopping is part of the reason why he is in the cells, but not the reason he is in the press, or this thread. The last time I checked the thread isnt about 'Cat beheaded in London'.
Also many jihadis are not exactly mentally stable, but are no less jihadis. Also where did he get his machete from, those are banned, who knew he had it, what mosque if any did he attend and is it on the list of dodgy mosques.
Lots of quite reasonable questions to ask by open minded people.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/07 16:56:54
n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
Cat chopping is part of the reason why he is in the cells, but not the reason he is in the press, or this thread. The last time I checked the thread isnt about 'Cat beheaded in London'.
Also many jihadis are not exactly mentally stable, but are no less jihadis. Also where did he get his machete from, those are banned, who knew he had it, what mosque if any did he attend and is it on the list of dodgy mosques.
Lots of quite reasonable questions to ask by open minded people.
Blaming it on his religion when he reportedly thought the cat'd stolen his lighter isn't open-minded, it's bigotry.
For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back.
Cat chopping is part of the reason why he is in the cells, but not the reason he is in the press, or this thread. The last time I checked the thread isnt about 'Cat beheaded in London'.
However violence and cruelty to animals is one of the classic warning signs of violent psychopaths and other mental health problems which can cause violent behaviour. So that he was attacking cats is potentially more important to understanding his motivations and state of mind than his choice of religion.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/09/07 17:25:53
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
d-usa wrote: Says it's not because he is Muslim.
Makes a whole post with everything based on him being a Muslim.
Also falls back on the classic "You're being intolerant of my intolerance therefore, you are wrong" bit.
In fact, the whole post reminds of the game show scene in the movie Billy Madison.
d-usa wrote: "When the Internet sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending posters that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing strawmen. They're bringing spam. They're trolls. And some, I assume, are good people."
Orlanth wrote: Machete attacks on London streets is something that didn't use to happen now it is.
I would say from about 300bc right through to Jack the Ripper, and up to the present day, people have been getting hacked up on London streets with some regularity.
It goes back to the walking on eggshells society does nowadays. This was the a scandal that broken recently. Why repeat the same tragic mistakes.
Not walking on egg shells is completely different to making wild unsubstantiated allegations. No one is saying you can't criticize Muslims, but at least try to limit it to stuff they've actually done.
There was a good example of this recently with the child abuse ring in Rotherham, which was not stopped because no one was allowed to vocalise the possibility that there could be an ethnic connection. To say that there was a peado ring in the Asian community.....you cant do that! That means you are racist, claiming all Asians are paedos hysteria, hysteria. etc etc
They had evidence and they didn't pursue it. You don't.
Cat chopping is part of the reason why he is in the cells, but not the reason he is in the press, or this thread. The last time I checked the thread isnt about 'Cat beheaded in London'.
Also many jihadis are not exactly mentally stable, but are no less jihadis.
"The cats stole my lighter" doesn't sound very jihadist. It just sounds mental, and not even jihadist mental. Just mental mental.
Also where did he get his machete from, those are banned, who knew he had it, what mosque if any did he attend and is it on the list of dodgy mosques.
Lots of quite reasonable questions to ask by open minded people.
Reasonable questions if you already know what conclusion you want to draw. The guy was an MMA nut, loads of those guys collect weapons. Loads of people on dakka collect weapons. It's not like a machete even has any significance in Islam. In the beheading videos online jihadists use a small sharp knife.
Cat chopping is part of the reason why he is in the cells, but not the reason he is in the press, or this thread. The last time I checked the thread isnt about 'Cat beheaded in London'.
Also many jihadis are not exactly mentally stable, but are no less jihadis. Also where did he get his machete from, those are banned, who knew he had it, what mosque if any did he attend and is it on the list of dodgy mosques.
Lots of quite reasonable questions to ask by open minded people.
Blaming it on his religion when he reportedly thought the cat'd stolen his lighter isn't open-minded, it's bigotry.
Again you arent/wont/cant think. Which is it please?
I am asking for the right to be respected to look into patterns of events, no fingers are pointed at 'moslems', just a fair and open minded concern that we have seen this recently before with the Lee Rigby murder.
I will not be labeled a bigot by closed minded politically correct types just because I want to explore the possible connections.
And I call you closed minded because we have so recently seen the consequences of that closed mindedness.
1400 children abused in one town because no one dared even explore whether there was an ethnic connection to the abuse.
there was, and it went on for years because nobody could speak out for fear they would be labeled a racist.
We simply didn't have this problem before, yet it is highly symptomic and more widespread than you might at first think.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/07 17:37:27
n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
"I'm not saying all Muslims are jihadists who are mentally insane and hack people up with machetes, I'm just saying that he is a machete hacking mentally insane jihadist because he is a Muslim".
And you wonder why people might consider that intolerant...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/07 17:46:13
I was going to post it, but I was trying to be nice.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Damn, he's hitting all the tropes now...
He's not a bigot, we are all just being politically correct because we aren't rushing to judge this guy based on what may or may not be his religion.
Silly us!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/07 18:01:00
d-usa wrote: "When the Internet sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending posters that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing strawmen. They're bringing spam. They're trolls. And some, I assume, are good people."
Orlanth wrote: Machete attacks on London streets is something that didn't use to happen now it is.
I would say from about 300bc right through to Jack the Ripper, and up to the present day, people have been getting hacked up on London streets with some regularity.
Middle ages etc were tough times. But we moved on since then, then took a serious step backwards recently, knife crime is way up.
Orlanth wrote: It goes back to the walking on eggshells society does nowadays. This was the a scandal that broken recently. Why repeat the same tragic mistakes.
Not walking on egg shells is completely different to making wild unsubstantiated allegations. No one is saying you can't criticize Muslims, but at least try to limit it to stuff they've actually done.
Thats what I am looking at and social services in Rotherham werent.
You see I have made no wild unsubstantiated allegations, you would see that if you read the post.
I asked to explore the possibilities, you are trying shut that down.
This means when viewed rationally that I am looking not to make allegations but to keep an open mind to stuff those with a progressive agenda dont like.
You will not even allow open minded people to explore the possibility that there may be a cultural or relgious angle to this, by saying that is jumping to conclusions, when it is logically the opposite.
Orlanth wrote: There was a good example of this recently with the child abuse ring in Rotherham, which was not stopped because no one was allowed to vocalise the possibility that there could be an ethnic connection. To say that there was a peado ring in the Asian community.....you cant do that! That means you are racist, claiming all Asians are paedos hysteria, hysteria. etc etc
They had evidence and they didn't pursue it. You don't.
Indeed, we need to see what is happening more clearly, and the very thin press coverage prevents that.
Also 'they' didn't pursue it because of people who would cry bigot or racist, people like you perhaps.
Orlanth wrote: Cat chopping is part of the reason why he is in the cells, but not the reason he is in the press, or this thread. The last time I checked the thread isnt about 'Cat beheaded in London'.
Also many jihadis are not exactly mentally stable, but are no less jihadis.
"The cats stole my lighter" doesn't sound very jihadist. It just sounds mental, and not even jihadist mental. Just mental mental.
Jihadi John may well also be mental mental, that doesn't mean anything. In fact they are good recruits for Islamic extremism.
Orlanth wrote: Also where did he get his machete from, those are banned, who knew he had it, what mosque if any did he attend and is it on the list of dodgy mosques.
Lots of quite reasonable questions to ask by open minded people.
Reasonable questions if you already know what conclusion you want to draw. The guy was an MMA nut, loads of those guys collect weapons. Loads of people on dakka collect weapons. It's not like a machete even has any significance in Islam. In the beheading videos online jihadists use a small sharp knife.
Reasonable questions for an open minded person willing to see that it might have a relgious or cultural xconnerction. Something you have ruled out as it doesnt match the progresive concensus.
Most jihadis from the middle east use cultural weapons from the middle east, African extremists might use African exteremists weapons. The Lee Rigby killers were black moslems using machetes.
Again machetes are not used in martial arts in this country, not used in our national culture, reenactment and are certainly not used for sugar cane planations or chopping through jungle. machetes have very limited use in the UK and sale is restricted. Its not a real African cultural weapon either, those are around and most are actually legal. For example you can ownan assegai or other african cultural weapon legally in the UK, and we don't see them used for crimes with any regularity just as we dont see medieval european weaponry used. Cheap knockoff katanas have been associated with chav in some areas, thoughtg not restruicted to that cultural group and their use is rare. Machetes have been associated by other fanatics, notably Moslem Africans but not restricted to them, but use for street crime is becoming more common.
Machetes are a symptom of a culture of violence, it isn't part of the mainstream African or Afro Caribbean society in this country at all. It tends to be a symbol of fanaticism to them as much as to others.
You need to open your eyes to the hard reality of the changing culture especially with knife crime. Its actually extraordinarily difficult to commit a knife crime, you need to be inured to killing face to face first, or seriously pushed by circumstances. The ease with which machetes appear on the streets drawn is an indicator of a society which has seen the elephant. This means a society that has crossed the line between civilisation and barbarism. We simply have not had that on any scale for centuries on most of the mainland UK, yet machetes appear with alarming regularity in Birmingham and London, and yes there is a pattern. and trend as to who uses which type of weapon.
The real problem is the cultural change that makes open use of machetes 'thinkable'. The mainstream UK culture doesn't have a 'life is that cheap' attitude, however that is growing due to influences from less stable regions because of the lack of anglicisation. This is why the machete is important. Had it been a crowbar killing I wouldn't have looked fro the connection, it would likely be just yet another nutjob on a rampage. You could have a crowbar in a tool box abnd get it out when you lose it. Machetes are not needed in London, and they are not part of our culture in any way, their only reason for being there is to cause a bloody mess.
He's not a bigot, we are all just being politically correct because we aren't rushing to judge this guy based on what may or may not be his religion.
Silly us!
Silly you indeed.
I am not a bigot, you are all just being politically correct because we aren't allowing people to explore whether or not there may be a religious or cultural angle to the actions.
The UK simply didn't have a culture of open machete attacks, perhaps I believe it best to vocalise that we don't need one. Sorry if I have rocked the boat by making this point plain. Very selfish of me, maybe I should not give a feth instead, because it wasn't my town it happened in.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/09/07 18:22:32
n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
Have a whole new look at a Bowie blade as a cultural weapon
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Jihadin wrote: Have a whole new look at a Bowie blade as a cultural weapon
A bowie knife is a cultural weapon, and in modern variations also a tool.
The machete is a tool in many cultures and areas, but urban UK isn't really one of them.
n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
Orlanth wrote: I asked to explore the possibilities, you are trying shut that down. This means when viewed rationally that I am looking not to make allegations but to keep an open mind to stuff those with a progressive agenda dont like. You will not even allow open minded people to explore the possibility that there may be a cultural or relgious angle to this. by saying that is jumping to conclusions, when it is logically the opposite.
The possibilities are infinite. Maybe he did it because he was overweight, did you explore that? How about because he was black? Not as topical as Muslim but always a goodie. Have you thought maybe it was because of his mustache? Hitler and Stalin both had mustaches too, as did Saddam. Have you explored that possibility? NO you didn't, you jumped straight to the only possible possibility you can imagine, which is that because he is Muslim he must be an Islamic radical. What does that say about you?
Reasonable questions for an open minded person willing to see that it might have a relgious or cultural xconnerction. Something you have ruled out as it doesnt match the progresive concensus.
I haven't ruled anything out. I accept that it's a 'possibility', but there is simply no evidence to support it.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/09/07 18:32:37
