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Just wanted to ask the community on how I could better deal with Riptides as my friend usually fields 2 of them at 1500 points.

I run a Tzeentch list, this was the build I used last time:
Keep in mind this is an all comers list, how I play it is I try to get endurance and possibly invisibility for the oblitorators.

Basically against 2 Riptides I am not really sure what I could even do.

1500 Pts - Chaos Space Marines Roster

HQ: Sorcerer in Terminator Armour (1#, 275 pts)
1 Sorcerer in Terminator Armour, 275 pts ((C:CSM, pp. 32 & 94); Infantry (Character); Terminator Armour; Mark of Tzeentch; Force Axe; Melta Bombs; Increase Mastery Level x2; Sigil of Corruption; Spell Familiar; Bulky; Champion of Chaos; Independent Character; Psyker (Mastery Level 3); Warlord; Biomancy; Pyromancy; Telepathy; Tzeentch)
1 The Murder Sword
1 Scrolls of Magnus

HQ: Sorcerer in Terminator Armour (1#, 170 pts)
1 Sorcerer in Terminator Armour, 170 pts ((C:CSM, pp. 32 & 94); Infantry (Character); Terminator Armour; Mark of Tzeentch; Combi-Boltgun; Force Axe; Melta Bombs; Increase Mastery Level x2; Spell Familiar; Bulky; Champion of Chaos; Independent Character; Psyker (Mastery Level 3); Biomancy; Pyromancy; Telepathy; Tzeentch)

Heavy Support: Obliterator (3#, 234 pts)
3 Obliterator, 234 pts ((C:CSM, pgs. 42 & 102); Infantry; Fleshmetal; Mark of Tzeentch; Power Fist; Fear; Bulky; Daemon; Deep Strike; Obliterator Weapons; Slow and Purposeful)

Heavy Support: Defiler (1#, 195 pts)
1 Defiler, 195 pts ((C:CSM, pp. 53 & 102); Vehicle (Walker); Daemonic Possession; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; 2x Power Fists; Battle Cannon; Reaper Autocannon; Twin-Linked Heavy Flamer; Fear; Daemon; Daemonforge; Fleet; It Will Not Die)

Heavy Support: Chaos Vindicator (1#, 145 pts)
1 Chaos Vindicator, 145 pts ((C:CSM, pp. 55 & 103); Vehicle (Tank); Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Daemonic Possession; Siege Shield; Demolisher Cannon)

Elite: Chaos Terminators (5#, 252 pts)
4 Chaos Terminators, 252 pts ((C:CSM, pp. 40 & 97); Infantry; Terminator Armour; Mark of Tzeentch; Combi-Boltgun x1; Lightning Claw x2; Power Fist x2; Combi-Meltagun x2; Heavy Flamer x1; Bulky; Hatred (Space Marines); Veterans of the Long War)
1 Terminator Champion (Infantry (Character); Terminator Armour; Combi-Boltgun; Chainfist; Bulky; Hatred (Space Marines); Veterans of the Long War)

Troops: Chaos Cultists (22#, 127 pts)
21 Chaos Cultists, 127 pts ((C:CSM, pp. 38 & 95); Infantry; Improvised Armour; Close Combat Weapon x21; Autogun x19; Heavy Stubber x2)
1 Cultist Champion ((C:CSM, pp. 46 & 98); Infantry (Character); Improvised Armour; Autopistol; Close Combat Weapon; Champion of Chaos)

Troops: Chaos Cultists (20#, 102 pts)
19 Chaos Cultists, 102 pts ((C:CSM, pp. 38 & 95); Infantry; Improvised Armour; Autopistol x17; Close Combat Weapon x19; Flamer x2)
1 Cultist Champion ((C:CSM, pp. 46 & 98); Infantry (Character); Improvised Armour; Autopistol; Close Combat Weapon; Shotgun; Champion of Chaos)

You don't have the weight of fire to drown the riptides in shots and you don't have number of big guns you need for the kill either. The defiler might do something if it gets a charge off, but I suspect that won't happen.

I'd suggest focusing the 1500 pts of your army on the 1000 non-riptide points of his army. That and try to debuff his Riptides through tricksy psyker stuff (odds are he has no defense or very little).

That said, your biggest issue is your mostly trying to outshoot the Tau by the looks of your list. Tau win shooting matches.

I would say psychic powers, psychic shriek can really hurt a riptide, especially when cast three time by Ahriman. Also things like dominate can or invisibility can really help you. Maybe try Belakor

You basically got nothing to kill riptides. Mellee ain't fast enough to catch them and shooting will be inefficient. I'd propose to ignore them altogether and focus on broadsides, crysis suits and markers - they're the main hard hitters and you have means to threaten them.

Spread your squads to avoid losses from ap2 blasts. Roll on invisibility. This way you can have a decent terminator star that will frighten him. But once again - don't try to catch Riptides. You most likely will waste time. They're very mobile. Going 6 + 3d6 if needed.

 koooaei wrote:
You basically got nothing to kill riptides. Mellee ain't fast enough to catch them and shooting will be inefficient. I'd propose to ignore them altogether and focus on broadsides, crysis suits and markers - they're the main hard hitters and you have means to threaten them.

Spread your squads to avoid losses from ap2 blasts. Roll on invisibility. This way you can have a decent terminator star that will frighten him. But once again - don't try to catch Riptides. You most likely will waste time. They're very mobile. Going 6 + 3d6 if needed.

I agree I normally ignore riptides wholesale nowadays and wipe out the marker lights and scoring units.

It is a nasty unity but I think it's survivability is more valuable than the damage it puts out. If you move your forces right it will never get enough of your models killed

Enfeeble then drop a vindi shot on it.

Not a surefire fix but if it works out you'll be laughing.

The only two times I was able to kill my friend's Riptide as CSM; was when I used a couple of deepstriking Obliterators (massed close range plasma shots) but that doesn't work when he throws on his 4++; and when I got a charge off with a Daemon Prince.

Is it just me or are those terminators strangely equipped and not nearly worth the points? Just looking at the list I feel it would have a lot of problems besides just riptides. I would remove the vindi and terminators and add allies. FMC psykers do very well against tau.

So much melee capable of catching it in our dex. It doesn't matter what you put in combat with it, even if you are going to eventually lose the fight it will take him generally at least 2 of his shooting phases to clear a tarpit. That's the points of the Riptide wasted. I'd actually advise against putting decent choppy units against him unless they are real choppy, it will waste a turn or two of your assault unit dealing with the most tanky unit in the game for its price. If however, you have a unit that can deal with a Riptide in 2 combat phases (by the time its your turn again) which is highly possible in our dex, eg Kharn + Warpsmith + 4 CC terminators coming out of a LandRaider , or just a squad of bikes led by a Juggerlord, then go for it, wipe him off the map. Other options include a Maulerfiend, your standard CSM troops in a Rhino, Helbrutes (deepstrike formation should be able to threaten a good assault), and of course Chaos Spawn, although they might fall into the category of "inefficient" as they are a dedicated assault troop that spends some time to chew up a Riptide, but hey at least they can catch it and anything is better than letting it get off another turn of shooting.

Somewhat unrelated; merge the Cultists into a 35 man blob. Much harder to stop, especially with high AP Tau firepower.

I would take plague marines with plasma against the riptide. Str 7 ap2 weapons, the assault it the next turn with poison weapons, or just light it up again with plasma.

Not having AP on the weapons makes them not really worth it in CC vs a Riptide IMO, it's the equivalent of S6 Ap- weapons against a T6 +2 model who is killing a very costly model in return, on every roll of a 3+. Plasma can be taken much cheaper elsewhere. Anything with AP2 is much better, Plasma pistols, powerfists, etc are the sort of units you want hitting a Riptide if you are trying to do it with standard power armour guys in a rhino.

Vindicator is well worth it vs crysis teams and broadsides. To be honest, i'd rather have 2 vindicators than Defiler. It's a hugely overpriced and not very effective model. But you allready own it so...eh. The best use of crabs is to proxy it as a C: Daemons Soulgrinder. It's basically a 13-13-11 defiler that costs less and can either be made mellee-oriented with a good rending torrent s6 ap4 flamer and +3 run move, fleet via MoS or Shooty-oriented with a battlecannon, Shrowded and def nades via MoN. In both cases it has a 3-shot autocannon that can also skyfire. It's just what the defiler should have been.

Drop the Defiler and Vindicator, too over costed for what little they bring to the table. Drop a Sorcerer or even both as well.

You'll free up easily enough points to bring 3 Tri Las Predators. These will down a Tide in 2 turns max if you need to. They are also only 420 points and MUCH cheaper and more reliable than trying to maneuver a Vindicator or Defiler to make up for its CC.

Grab a Chaos Lord with the Axe of Blind Fury, and run him around with some Naked Chaos Spawn for wounds and added attacks. Tau don't have Large Blast str 10 weapons. They have str 9, but only access to str 10 in single shot form. Take advantage of that if you can and run literally at the Riptide and just delete it with the Lord + Spawn.

As for the rest of your list, you also dont need the Obliterators. More points you could save. You want to get into CC ASAP. Drop the Heavy Weapons from your Cultists save yourself 20 points. Drop the Terminators unless you can give them a Land Raider with a Dirge Caster. If you can give them that, they become murderous.

Ultimately this becomes a quesiton of the models you have vs can get. I know, you can't just go out and drop $200 on a dozen models. And I hate to think you'd have to tailor in order to defeat an opponent (Which is why I hate my Riptides, but thats an entirely new rant I wont torture the Dakka community with any more than it already has)

You have two Sorcerers, go telepathy, terrify, laugh as they run off the board they are not fearless.

You can also Psychic Shriek them.

So basically I don't really want to go non-Tzteentch with my army, and I also theme my army as Alpha Legion / Tzteentch.

I appreciate all the comments and it got me thinking about a viable all comers list that isn't too heavily focused in any particular area, but could also compete with shooty lists.

The last battle I had I did fairly well against the list bellow, all that survived were the 2 riptides, one with 2 wounds, the other with 4. I had been putting a lot of fire into them over the course of the whole game.

EDIT: We were playing a battle to the death with no round limit.

The Tau team that I faced had:

2 Riptides (various upgrades)
Aun'va
Cadre
Crisis team (3x with various drones) they all had the twin linked fusion blasters and are used as deepstrike units.
2x 10ish man Fire warrior teams
1x Piranha
1x Hammerhead with Long strike

Not entirely sure about all the upgrades, some of the Fire warriors had drones with them, one was a large one.





This is a modified range list that I think could be a good all comers list also:

Strategy:
Warlord Trait: Rolling on personal to try and get a 6 for fearless and it will not die.
Biomancy on the sorc, keep him inside the raider with the terminators reading his scrolls until he is needed.
Sit back with the raider, 2x preds, and 2x rhinos with missile packs and just blast away.
Vindicator will rush up and be a general pain / gun magnet for the first few turns.

1500 Pts - Chaos Space Marines Roster - 1500 Sorc Range

HQ: Sorcerer in Terminator Armour (1#, 275 pts)
1 Sorcerer in Terminator Armour, 275 pts ((C:CSM, pp. 32 & 94); Infantry (Character); Terminator Armour; Mark of Tzeentch; Force Axe; Melta Bombs; Increase Mastery Level x2; Sigil of Corruption; Spell Familiar; Bulky; Champion of Chaos; Independent Character; Psyker (Mastery Level 3); Warlord; Biomancy; Pyromancy; Telepathy; Tzeentch)
1 The Murder Sword
1 Scrolls of Magnus

Elite: Chaos Terminators (5#, 432 pts)
3 Chaos Terminators, 432 pts ((C:CSM, pp. 40 & 97); Infantry; Terminator Armour; Mark of Tzeentch; Lightning Claw x3; Combi-Meltagun x3; Bulky; Hatred (Space Marines); Veterans of the Long War)
1 Terminator Champion (Infantry (Character); Terminator Armour; Combi-Boltgun; Chainfist; Bulky; Hatred (Space Marines); Veterans of the Long War)
1 Chaos Land Raider ((C:CSM, pp. 55 & 103); Vehicle (Transport, Tank); 10 model capacity; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Dozer Blade; Twin-Linked Heavy Bolter; Twin-linked Lascannons (each side); Assault Vehicle)

Heavy Support: Chaos Predator (1#, 160 pts)
1 Chaos Predator, 160 pts ((C:CSM, pp. 54 & 103); Vehicle (Tank); Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Daemonic Possession; Dozer Blade; Twin-Linked Lascannon; Lascannon (each side))

Heavy Support: Chaos Predator (1#, 160 pts)
1 Chaos Predator, 160 pts ((C:CSM, pp. 54 & 103); Vehicle (Tank); Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Daemonic Possession; Dozer Blade; Twin-Linked Lascannon; Lascannon (each side))

Heavy Support: Chaos Vindicator (1#, 145 pts)
1 Chaos Vindicator, 145 pts ((C:CSM, pp. 55 & 103); Vehicle (Tank); Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Daemonic Possession; Siege Shield; Demolisher Cannon)

Troops: Chaos Space Marines (8#, 163 pts)
6 Chaos Space Marines, 163 pts ((C:CSM, pp. 37 & 95); Infantry; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Bolt Pistol x6; Boltgun x5; Meltagun)
1 Aspiring Champion ((C:CSM, pp. 37 & 95); Infantry (Character); Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Bolt Pistol; Boltgun; Close Combat Weapon; Champion of Chaos)
1 Chaos Rhino ((C:CSM, pp. 54 & 99); Vehicle (Transport, Tank); 10 model capacity; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Dozer Blade; Combi-Boltgun; Havoc Launcher; Repair)

Troops: Chaos Space Marines (8#, 163 pts)
6 Chaos Space Marines, 163 pts ((C:CSM, pp. 37 & 95); Infantry; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Bolt Pistol x6; Boltgun x5; Meltagun)
1 Aspiring Champion ((C:CSM, pp. 37 & 95); Infantry (Character); Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Bolt Pistol; Boltgun; Close Combat Weapon; Champion of Chaos)
1 Chaos Rhino ((C:CSM, pp. 54 & 99); Vehicle (Transport, Tank); 10 model capacity; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Dozer Blade; Combi-Boltgun; Havoc Launcher; Repair)


Basically as for the rest of my collection not listed between my 1st post and this one that I would be willing to use is roughly:

Another 10 cultists
Enough marines to make each squad 10 with a plasma in each also.
3x Oblitorators
1 Demon Prince without wings
Ahriman
Havoc team with 3x auto cannons and 1x missile launcher


What do you guys think?

Never use a daemon prince without wings...

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
Never use a daemon prince without wings...

I don't really use him, I am actually waiting right now to get a friends set which has one with wings in it.

2 things I've killed a Riptide with on 1 turn.

1) Psychic shriek. Even brought down 2 in 1 turn with Ahriman.
2) Sorcerer on a bike with a force axe.

You could easily save 80 points on your Sorceror by dropping the scrolls, murder sword and sigil (which should make him 170, you might want to double check your point costs).

Save another 10 by taking the dozer blades off the preds, since they have enough range that they don't need to be going through terrain. Save 30 more by removing daemonic possession cause BS3 isn't great and they shouldn't need the daemon benefits that much.

That's 120 points right there, enough to get you your min squad of cultists and fill out your marine squads. Troops are good.

You could also replace your sorceror with Ahriman, go with the Termies in the raider and infiltrate then drive 6, disembark 6 and shriek those riptides away and there's not much he can do about it. Best of all, Ahriman can detach from the termies and they can go slag a vehicle in a totally different direction if required.

Drasius wrote:
You could easily save 80 points on your Sorceror by dropping the scrolls, murder sword and sigil (which should make him 170, you might want to double check your point costs).

Save another 10 by taking the dozer blades off the preds, since they have enough range that they don't need to be going through terrain. Save 30 more by removing daemonic possession cause BS3 isn't great and they shouldn't need the daemon benefits that much.

That's 120 points right there, enough to get you your min squad of cultists and fill out your marine squads. Troops are good.

You could also replace your sorceror with Ahriman, go with the Termies in the raider and infiltrate then drive 6, disembark 6 and shriek those riptides away and there's not much he can do about it. Best of all, Ahriman can detach from the termies and they can go slag a vehicle in a totally different direction if required.

For 1500 points I could tone the sorc down a bit, I actually have both sorc models and I like to use them together in bigger games.

This is a revised version of the list:

1500 Pts - Chaos Space Marines Roster - 1500 Sorc Range

HQ: Sorcerer in Terminator Armour (1#, 200 pts)
1 Sorcerer in Terminator Armour, 200 pts ((C:CSM, pp. 32 & 94); Infantry (Character); Terminator Armour; Mark of Tzeentch; Combi-Boltgun; Force Axe; Melta Bombs; Increase Mastery Level x2; Sigil of Corruption; Spell Familiar; Bulky; Champion of Chaos; Hatred (Space Marines); Independent Character; Psyker (Mastery Level 3); Veterans of the Long War; Warlord; Biomancy; Pyromancy; Telepathy; Tzeentch)

Elite: Chaos Terminators (5#, 431 pts)
3 Chaos Terminators, 431 pts ((C:CSM, pp. 40 & 97); Infantry; Terminator Armour; Mark of Tzeentch; Combi-Boltgun x1; Lightning Claw x2; Power Fist x1; Combi-Meltagun x2; Bulky; Hatred (Space Marines); Veterans of the Long War)
1 Terminator Champion (Infantry (Character); Terminator Armour; Combi-Boltgun; Chainfist; Bulky; Hatred (Space Marines); Veterans of the Long War)
1 Chaos Land Raider ((C:CSM, pp. 55 & 103); Vehicle (Transport, Tank); 10 model capacity; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Dozer Blade; Twin-Linked Heavy Bolter; Twin-linked Lascannons (each side); Assault Vehicle)

Heavy Support: Chaos Predator (1#, 140 pts)
1 Chaos Predator, 140 pts ((C:CSM, pp. 54 & 103); Vehicle (Tank); Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Twin-Linked Lascannon; Lascannon (each side))

Heavy Support: Chaos Predator (1#, 140 pts)
1 Chaos Predator, 140 pts ((C:CSM, pp. 54 & 103); Vehicle (Tank); Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Twin-Linked Lascannon; Lascannon (each side))

Heavy Support: Chaos Vindicator (1#, 145 pts)
1 Chaos Vindicator, 145 pts ((C:CSM, pp. 55 & 103); Vehicle (Tank); Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Daemonic Possession; Siege Shield; Demolisher Cannon)

Troops: Chaos Space Marines (11#, 222 pts)
9 Chaos Space Marines, 222 pts ((C:CSM, pp. 37 & 95); Infantry; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Bolt Pistol x9; Boltgun x7; Meltagun; Plasma gun)
1 Aspiring Champion ((C:CSM, pp. 37 & 95); Infantry (Character); Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Bolt Pistol; Boltgun; Close Combat Weapon; Champion of Chaos)
1 Chaos Rhino ((C:CSM, pp. 54 & 99); Vehicle (Transport, Tank); 10 model capacity; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Dozer Blade; Warpflame Gargoyles; Combi-Boltgun; Havoc Launcher; Repair)

Troops: Chaos Space Marines (11#, 222 pts)
9 Chaos Space Marines, 222 pts ((C:CSM, pp. 37 & 95); Infantry; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Bolt Pistol x9; Boltgun x7; Meltagun; Plasma gun)
1 Aspiring Champion ((C:CSM, pp. 37 & 95); Infantry (Character); Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Bolt Pistol; Boltgun; Close Combat Weapon; Champion of Chaos)
1 Chaos Rhino ((C:CSM, pp. 54 & 99); Vehicle (Transport, Tank); 10 model capacity; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Dozer Blade; Warpflame Gargoyles; Combi-Boltgun; Havoc Launcher; Repair)

Maulerfiends are fun and can catch a Riptide to boot. They will rip them apart in HTH easily enough and can be a chore to kill. I take 2. They are also dirt cheap for the amount of distraction they cause.

I don't have any maulerfiends although they look semi decent