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 CptJake wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:
its like what Christianity would look like if you had a sect that followed the old testament to the letter.

Wouldn't "Christians" strictly adhering to the Old Testament instead of the New Testament be a lot closer to Jewish than to Christian?

I have no idea. I don't know how similar the Old Testament is to the Jewish Torah.

It would seem that the New Testament and its teachings define Christianity, not the Old Testament.

Anyway, back on topic:

"ISIS fighters are desperately trying to obtain VIAGRA"

I can forward them the contents of my spam folder if they need a hook up...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2956882/ISIS-fighters-desperately-trying-obtain-VIAGRA-spending-money-kinky-underwear-wives-subjecting-brutal-abnormal-sex-acts-according-doctors-Syria.html

PhantomViper wrote:

 CptJake wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:
its like what Christianity would look like if you had a sect that followed the old testament to the letter.

Wouldn't "Christians" strictly adhering to the Old Testament instead of the New Testament be a lot closer to Jewish than to Christian?

I have no idea. I don't know how similar the Old Testament is to the Jewish Torah.

If I am not mistaken...

God, Yahweh, and Allah means God of the same Deity. In other words... Judaism, Christianity, and Islam worship the same deity.

They all worship God and the Old Testament is in all the their holy books (Bible, Torah, and Quran).

This is why the all three religions are almost the same.

Again, if I'm not mistaken here....

Judaism need to practice the old laws to get to heavens. Jesus was not the Messiah, so no dying for your sin.
Christianity has Jesus as the savior, so no need to practice old laws to get to heaven.
Islam also rejected Jesus as the messiah, so they need to practice old laws to get to heaven.

The old laws are like Sharia law...I'm not sure what they are .. .but many practice of Judaism and Islam are alike. Like cloves hoof with wiggle tails and bottom feeder food is forbidden (pigs, shrimps, crabs, etc...)

Again, I'm no expert...

Not exactly like that.

Christianity, Judaism and Islam share the same source.

But Islam does not believe in Christ as the Messiah. They believe in the Prophet and (this is the important part), they also incorporate the Hadith into the core of their beliefs.

The Hadith is prophetic teachings that could have been interpreted by any self proclaimed Muslim authority.

A lot of the Sharia law and moreso the extreme Wahhibbi stuff comes from the Hadith interpreted by some latter self proclaimed Muslim authority.

 KiloFiX wrote:
Not exactly like that.

Christianity, Judaism and Islam share the same source.

But Islam does not believe in Christ as the Messiah. They believe in the Prophet and (this is the important part), they also incorporate the Hadith into the core of their beliefs.

The Hadith is prophetic teachings that could have been interpreted by any self proclaimed Muslim authority.

A lot of the Sharia law and moreso the extreme Wahhibbi stuff comes from the Hadith interpreted by some latter self proclaimed Muslim authority.

Yeah, nobody believe that Jesus was the messiah, only Christians.

But the same deity none the less.

What is phrase means " there is no God but Allah"? Is this phrase based on ignorance that the God here is the Christians God and that God is false, not knowing this deity is the same as Allah? Or Muslim know that this deity God is the same as Allah, but God is no more ...he has become Allah? Or...it is just an insult to all gods and all other religions and only Allah is God.

david choe wrote:

 KiloFiX wrote:
Not exactly like that.

Christianity, Judaism and Islam share the same source.

But Islam does not believe in Christ as the Messiah. They believe in the Prophet and (this is the important part), they also incorporate the Hadith into the core of their beliefs.

The Hadith is prophetic teachings that could have been interpreted by any self proclaimed Muslim authority.

A lot of the Sharia law and moreso the extreme Wahhibbi stuff comes from the Hadith interpreted by some latter self proclaimed Muslim authority.

Yeah, nobody believe that Jesus was the messiah, only Christians.

But the same deity none the less.

What is phrase means " there is no God but Allah"? Is this phrase based on ignorance that the God here is the Christians God and that God is false, not knowing this deity is the same as Allah? Or Muslim know that this deity God is the same as Allah, but God is no more ...he has become Allah? Or...it is just an insult to all gods and all other religions and only Allah is God.

The phrase is not "there is no God but Allah", it is " there is no god but Allah". It is a teaching against polytheist religions and non-Abrahamic monotheistic religions, not against Judaism or Christianity.

Allah is the Arabic word for God and is also used by Arabic Christians and even Arabic Jews to refer to the Christian and Jewish God, because they are all the same God as far as those religions are concerned.

PhantomViper wrote:

david choe wrote:

 KiloFiX wrote:
Not exactly like that.

Christianity, Judaism and Islam share the same source.

But Islam does not believe in Christ as the Messiah. They believe in the Prophet and (this is the important part), they also incorporate the Hadith into the core of their beliefs.

The Hadith is prophetic teachings that could have been interpreted by any self proclaimed Muslim authority.

A lot of the Sharia law and moreso the extreme Wahhibbi stuff comes from the Hadith interpreted by some latter self proclaimed Muslim authority.

Yeah, nobody believe that Jesus was the messiah, only Christians.

But the same deity none the less.

What is phrase means " there is no God but Allah"? Is this phrase based on ignorance that the God here is the Christians God and that God is false, not knowing this deity is the same as Allah? Or Muslim know that this deity God is the same as Allah, but God is no more ...he has become Allah? Or...it is just an insult to all gods and all other religions and only Allah is God.

The phrase is not "there is no God but Allah", it is " there is no god but Allah". It is a teaching against polytheist religions and non-Abrahamic monotheistic religions, not against Judaism or Christianity.

Allah is the Arabic word for God and is also used by Arabic Christians and even Arabic Jews to refer to the Christian and Jewish God, because they are all the same God as far as those religions are concerned.

why not just say "there are no gods but Allah"?

Also, I know majority of Christians in America do not even know that the 3 religions are worshiping the same deity.

Is this ignorance the same in Muslim community? Do they know and aware that they are worshiping to the same deity?

Many Christians disagree that they are worshiping the same deity.

david choe wrote:

why not just say "there are no gods but Allah"?

Its the same thing.

david choe wrote:

Also, I know majority of Christians in America do not even know that the 3 religions are worshiping the same deity.

Is this ignorance the same in Muslim community? Do they know and aware that they are worshiping to the same deity?

If they read the Quran, yes, they aware of that since it is specifically mentioned in it.

No, Islam does not share the same god as Judaism and Christianity. They might be classified as Abrahamic religions, but the characteristics of Allah and God are radically different.

Judaism and Christianity follow the same god, Christianity is just Judaism which believes that the Messiah has come in fulfillment of the prophecies and established a new Covenant.

Islam is something completely different. They might use the same word to refer to god as some christians, but that doesn't make them the same. And the characteristics of god as described by the Koran and the Bible are very different.

I loathe people who are ignorant enough to say they're the same. They're not.

PhantomViper wrote:

 CptJake wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:
its like what Christianity would look like if you had a sect that followed the old testament to the letter.

Wouldn't "Christians" strictly adhering to the Old Testament instead of the New Testament be a lot closer to Jewish than to Christian?

I have no idea. I don't know how similar the Old Testament is to the Jewish Torah.

They're the same. The Bible is really just Torah+New Testament.

 Grey Templar wrote:
No, Islam does not share the same god as Judaism and Christianity. They might be classified as Abrahamic religions, but the characteristics of Allah and God are radically different.

Judaism and Christianity follow the same god, Christianity is just Judaism which believes that the Messiah has come in fulfillment of the prophecies and established a new Covenant.

Islam is something completely different. They might use the same word to refer to god as some christians, but that doesn't make them the same. And the characteristics of god as described by the Koran and the Bible are very different.

I loathe people who are ignorant enough to say they're the same. They're not.

Well, lets see, the Muslims say that they do since they say that their God is the God of Abraham and the God of Jesus (they just don't accept him as a messiah but just as another prophet).
The Roman Catholic Church says the same from as far back as the Council of Vatican II, at least (that was the first that I heard of it).

So... yeah, they are the same.

 Grey Templar wrote:
No, Islam does not share the same god as Judaism and Christianity. They might be classified as Abrahamic religions, but the characteristics of Allah and God are radically different.

Judaism and Christianity follow the same god, Christianity is just Judaism which believes that the Messiah has come in fulfillment of the prophecies and established a new Covenant.

Islam is something completely different. They might use the same word to refer to god as some christians, but that doesn't make them the same. And the characteristics of god as described by the Koran and the Bible are very different.

I loathe people who are ignorant enough to say they're the same. They're not.

PhantomViper wrote:

 CptJake wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:
its like what Christianity would look like if you had a sect that followed the old testament to the letter.

Wouldn't "Christians" strictly adhering to the Old Testament instead of the New Testament be a lot closer to Jewish than to Christian?

I have no idea. I don't know how similar the Old Testament is to the Jewish Torah.

They're the same. The Bible is really just Torah+New Testament.

Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is not the same.

You know that Old testament is in the Quran right? It is the same deity.

Look I know that you don't like it. But it is a fact. Look at like this... Mormon are a christian sect... many Christians do not agree with them...However, who are the mormon worshiping to? The same God.

This God is very popular and many people choose to worship him in their own "style" or Religion.

PhantomViper wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
No, Islam does not share the same god as Judaism and Christianity. They might be classified as Abrahamic religions, but the characteristics of Allah and God are radically different.

Judaism and Christianity follow the same god, Christianity is just Judaism which believes that the Messiah has come in fulfillment of the prophecies and established a new Covenant.

Islam is something completely different. They might use the same word to refer to god as some christians, but that doesn't make them the same. And the characteristics of god as described by the Koran and the Bible are very different.

I loathe people who are ignorant enough to say they're the same. They're not.

Well, lets see, the Muslims say that they do since they say that their God is the God of Abraham and the God of Jesus (they just don't accept him as a messiah but just as another prophet).
The Roman Catholic Church says the same from as far back as the Council of Vatican II, at least (that was the first that I heard of it).

So... yeah, they are the same.

Muslims can say whatever they want, as can the Vatican to keep PR stable betwen the Catholics and Muslims. Doesn't make it true.

Christians believe that Jesus was God, Muslims don't. That alone means they're not the same.

Some of you are missing the second (and key) part of the phrase:

"And Mohamed is his prophet"

Mohamed's utterances and the hadith interpretations of them are the basis for Islam, not the origins of Allah or who/what Allah is. Mohamed's message is quite a bit different from that of Jesus (which forms the basis for Christianity).

Mohamed's utterances (the words of Allah) don't really jive with the teachings of Christ in the New Testament.


But back on topic again; http://www.visionofhumanity.org/sites/default/files/Global%20Terrorism%20Index%20Report%202014.pdf

Long document but has some good info in it.

 CptJake wrote:
Mohamed's message is quite a bit different from that of Jesus (which forms the basis for Christianity).

Mohamed's utterances (the words of Allah) don't really jive with the teachings of Christ in the New Testament.

I'm not a religious scholar, a Christian, or a Muslim; do you suppose you could explain the differences succinctly?

 Grey Templar wrote:


Muslims can say whatever they want, as can the Vatican to keep PR stable betwen the Catholics and Muslims. Doesn't make it true.

Christians believe that Jesus was God, Muslims don't. That alone means they're not the same.

If that is your reason then Jews also don't believe that Jesus was God so why are you saying that they worship the same God?

Also, if the Catholic Church and the Muslim Holy Book both say that it is, what you personally believe doesn't carry exactly the same weight as far as Theology is concerned.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 CptJake wrote:
Mohamed's message is quite a bit different from that of Jesus (which forms the basis for Christianity).

Mohamed's utterances (the words of Allah) don't really jive with the teachings of Christ in the New Testament.

I'm not a religious scholar, a Christian, or a Muslim; do you suppose you could explain the differences succinctly?

Basically, Mohamed supported a more vigorous spreading of the faith through war and conquest, while Jesus was all about the brotherly love and spreading of the word through peaceful means.

 Grey Templar wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
No, Islam does not share the same god as Judaism and Christianity. They might be classified as Abrahamic religions, but the characteristics of Allah and God are radically different.

Judaism and Christianity follow the same god, Christianity is just Judaism which believes that the Messiah has come in fulfillment of the prophecies and established a new Covenant.

Islam is something completely different. They might use the same word to refer to god as some christians, but that doesn't make them the same. And the characteristics of god as described by the Koran and the Bible are very different.

I loathe people who are ignorant enough to say they're the same. They're not.

Well, lets see, the Muslims say that they do since they say that their God is the God of Abraham and the God of Jesus (they just don't accept him as a messiah but just as another prophet).
The Roman Catholic Church says the same from as far back as the Council of Vatican II, at least (that was the first that I heard of it).

So... yeah, they are the same.

Muslims can say whatever they want, as can the Vatican to keep PR stable betwen the Catholics and Muslims. Doesn't make it true.

Christians believe that Jesus was God, Muslims don't. That alone means they're not the same.

so are there at least 2 gods then? are there more? will the real god please stand up and be a guest on Oprah.

Same god, different beliefs, Look at the 42,000 sects of christianity. Same god, different beliefs about him.

At least Islam says jesus was a prophet of god, the jews still say the real jesus hasn't shown up yet.

So there you have it, 2 out of 3 major religions don't believe Jesus is god. What are the odds Christians are wrong?

Who gives a feth which is wrong, and frankly that has zero to do with the atrocities Da'Ish is committing nor the fighting several countries and sub-national groups are doing against them. How Da'Ish interprets Islam is probably at least a bit relevant to this topic as it helps to establish motivation.

Perhaps the slagging on religion as a whole should move to a different topic unless we at least go through the effort of trying to tie the relevance to this one?

 Grey Templar wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
No, Islam does not share the same god as Judaism and Christianity. They might be classified as Abrahamic religions, but the characteristics of Allah and God are radically different.

Judaism and Christianity follow the same god, Christianity is just Judaism which believes that the Messiah has come in fulfillment of the prophecies and established a new Covenant.

Islam is something completely different. They might use the same word to refer to god as some christians, but that doesn't make them the same. And the characteristics of god as described by the Koran and the Bible are very different.

I loathe people who are ignorant enough to say they're the same. They're not.

Well, lets see, the Muslims say that they do since they say that their God is the God of Abraham and the God of Jesus (they just don't accept him as a messiah but just as another prophet).
The Roman Catholic Church says the same from as far back as the Council of Vatican II, at least (that was the first that I heard of it).

So... yeah, they are the same.

Muslims can say whatever they want, as can the Vatican to keep PR stable betwen the Catholics and Muslims. Doesn't make it true.

Christians believe that Jesus was God, Muslims don't. That alone means they're not the same.

wow! talk about the irony of ignorant here.

Tell me this... is Mormon and Westboro Baptist Church and Catholics worship the same deity? The answer is yes.

Same with Muslim, Jews, and all Christians.... you guys are praying to the same deity.

 CptJake wrote:
Who gives a feth which is wrong, and frankly that has zero to do with the atrocities Da'Ish is committing nor the fighting several countries and sub-national groups are doing against them. How Da'Ish interprets Islam is probably at least a bit relevant to this topic as it helps to establish motivation.

Perhaps the slagging on religion as a whole should move to a different topic unless we at least go through the effort of trying to tie the relevance to this one?

I strongly suggest that anyone interested in ISIS motivations reads the link that nels1031 posted.

If it really is true that Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi is a direct descendant from Mohamed's tribe and only he can be the Caliph, then maybe a surgical strike to kill him would bring the whole thing down since according to their own beliefs system, there wouldn't be anyone else to step up to lead ISIS or at least the pool of possible candidates would be a much smaller one than in an organization like Al-Qaeda.

 CptJake wrote:
Who gives a feth which is wrong, and frankly that has zero to do with the atrocities Da'Ish is committing nor the fighting several countries and sub-national groups are doing against them. How Da'Ish interprets Islam is probably at least a bit relevant to this topic as it helps to establish motivation.

Perhaps the slagging on religion as a whole should move to a different topic unless we at least go through the effort of trying to tie the relevance to this one?

No no we've not scheduled a new religion basing thread for another 49.7 hours.

I think all this argument over what is and is not the same god is all rather moot, considering that none of them exist anyway.

PhantomViper wrote:

 CptJake wrote:
Who gives a feth which is wrong, and frankly that has zero to do with the atrocities Da'Ish is committing nor the fighting several countries and sub-national groups are doing against them. How Da'Ish interprets Islam is probably at least a bit relevant to this topic as it helps to establish motivation.

Perhaps the slagging on religion as a whole should move to a different topic unless we at least go through the effort of trying to tie the relevance to this one?

I strongly suggest that anyone interested in ISIS motivations reads the link that nels1031 posted.

If it really is true that Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi is a direct descendant from Mohamed's tribe and only he can be the Caliph, then maybe a surgical strike to kill him would bring the whole thing down since according to their own beliefs system, there wouldn't be anyone else to step up to lead ISIS or at least the pool of possible candidates would be a much smaller one than in an organization like Al-Qaeda.

That is what I said also. Kill the false Caliph and ISIS will collapse with in fighting of picking the next caliph or just lost the will to fight.

I wonder why the West or other ME nations are not planning to do this. My conclusion is they want ISIS to exist. I don't know why. Who is benefiting from ISIS existing? Could it be the War machines in the USA about to start cranking up again? Could this ISIS be connected with CIA? I don't know... but ...

Why is this Caliph is still allow to live is beyond me.

david choe wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:

 CptJake wrote:
Who gives a feth which is wrong, and frankly that has zero to do with the atrocities Da'Ish is committing nor the fighting several countries and sub-national groups are doing against them. How Da'Ish interprets Islam is probably at least a bit relevant to this topic as it helps to establish motivation.

Perhaps the slagging on religion as a whole should move to a different topic unless we at least go through the effort of trying to tie the relevance to this one?

I strongly suggest that anyone interested in ISIS motivations reads the link that nels1031 posted.

If it really is true that Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi is a direct descendant from Mohamed's tribe and only he can be the Caliph, then maybe a surgical strike to kill him would bring the whole thing down since according to their own beliefs system, there wouldn't be anyone else to step up to lead ISIS or at least the pool of possible candidates would be a much smaller one than in an organization like Al-Qaeda.

That is what I said also. Kill the false Caliph and ISIS will collapse with in fighting of picking the next caliph or just lost the will to fight.

I wonder why the West or other ME nations are not planning to do this. My conclusion is they want ISIS to exist. I don't know why. Who is benefiting from ISIS existing? Could it be the War machines in the USA about to start cranking up again? Could this ISIS be connected with CIA? I don't know... but ...

Why is this Caliph is still allow to live is beyond me.

You presume we know where he is...

It took over a decade to find Bin Laden.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
It took over a decade to find Bin Laden.

My point exactly.

 whembly wrote:

david choe wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:

 CptJake wrote:
Who gives a feth which is wrong, and frankly that has zero to do with the atrocities Da'Ish is committing nor the fighting several countries and sub-national groups are doing against them. How Da'Ish interprets Islam is probably at least a bit relevant to this topic as it helps to establish motivation.

Perhaps the slagging on religion as a whole should move to a different topic unless we at least go through the effort of trying to tie the relevance to this one?

I strongly suggest that anyone interested in ISIS motivations reads the link that nels1031 posted.

If it really is true that Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi is a direct descendant from Mohamed's tribe and only he can be the Caliph, then maybe a surgical strike to kill him would bring the whole thing down since according to their own beliefs system, there wouldn't be anyone else to step up to lead ISIS or at least the pool of possible candidates would be a much smaller one than in an organization like Al-Qaeda.

That is what I said also. Kill the false Caliph and ISIS will collapse with in fighting of picking the next caliph or just lost the will to fight.

I wonder why the West or other ME nations are not planning to do this. My conclusion is they want ISIS to exist. I don't know why. Who is benefiting from ISIS existing? Could it be the War machines in the USA about to start cranking up again? Could this ISIS be connected with CIA? I don't know... but ...

Why is this Caliphate is still allow to live is beyond me.

You presume we know where he is...

He is conducting praying with masses of people. I mean.. this is not Bin Ladin hiding in caves. This Caliphate is like the pope in ISIS territory ... his job is to act as head of state and preach to his followers. I think I just heard about him last week ... he did some "preaching" in a mosque.

How hard would it be to send an spy... with GPS and locate the Caliphate...

ISIS are recruiting like crazy... if some stupid french teens can join... how hard is it to send a CIA agent there? Have the agent there and with in a few months... next prayer mosque meeting... drone strike the damn mosque and kill em all.

Like when he did this in June last year.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iraq/10948480/Islamic-State-leader-Abu-Bakr-al-Baghdadi-addresses-Muslims-in-Mosul.html

Yeah.. you must be right... he must be hiding like real hard. I remember last June... the video looks damn... easy for an assassin to be there.

david choe wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:

 CptJake wrote:
Who gives a feth which is wrong, and frankly that has zero to do with the atrocities Da'Ish is committing nor the fighting several countries and sub-national groups are doing against them. How Da'Ish interprets Islam is probably at least a bit relevant to this topic as it helps to establish motivation.

Perhaps the slagging on religion as a whole should move to a different topic unless we at least go through the effort of trying to tie the relevance to this one?

I strongly suggest that anyone interested in ISIS motivations reads the link that nels1031 posted.

If it really is true that Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi is a direct descendant from Mohamed's tribe and only he can be the Caliph, then maybe a surgical strike to kill him would bring the whole thing down since according to their own beliefs system, there wouldn't be anyone else to step up to lead ISIS or at least the pool of possible candidates would be a much smaller one than in an organization like Al-Qaeda.

That is what I said also. Kill the false Caliph and ISIS will collapse with in fighting of picking the next caliph or just lost the will to fight.

I wonder why the West or other ME nations are not planning to do this. My conclusion is they want ISIS to exist. I don't know why. Who is benefiting from ISIS existing? Could it be the War machines in the USA about to start cranking up again? Could this ISIS be connected with CIA? I don't know... but ...

Why is this Caliph is still allow to live is beyond me.

Because they can't catch him?

Is it me or did that sound like a strategy for dealing with an Ork Waugh?

 Frazzled wrote:

david choe wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:

 CptJake wrote:
Who gives a feth which is wrong, and frankly that has zero to do with the atrocities Da'Ish is committing nor the fighting several countries and sub-national groups are doing against them. How Da'Ish interprets Islam is probably at least a bit relevant to this topic as it helps to establish motivation.

Perhaps the slagging on religion as a whole should move to a different topic unless we at least go through the effort of trying to tie the relevance to this one?

I strongly suggest that anyone interested in ISIS motivations reads the link that nels1031 posted.

If it really is true that Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi is a direct descendant from Mohamed's tribe and only he can be the Caliph, then maybe a surgical strike to kill him would bring the whole thing down since according to their own beliefs system, there wouldn't be anyone else to step up to lead ISIS or at least the pool of possible candidates would be a much smaller one than in an organization like Al-Qaeda.

That is what I said also. Kill the false Caliph and ISIS will collapse with in fighting of picking the next caliph or just lost the will to fight.

I wonder why the West or other ME nations are not planning to do this. My conclusion is they want ISIS to exist. I don't know why. Who is benefiting from ISIS existing? Could it be the War machines in the USA about to start cranking up again? Could this ISIS be connected with CIA? I don't know... but ...

Why is this Caliph is still allow to live is beyond me.

Because they can't catch him?

Is it me or did that sound like a strategy for dealing with an Ork Waugh?

LOL.. holy gak.. that was funny. But yes... send Space Marines or SEAL Team 6 and pop him.

The problem with assassinating the Caliph is...even if he is making lavish public appearances before huge crowds, there is the problem of collateral damage. Its not like we can just direct a Drone to the area and drop a bomb on him in the middle of his sermon.

You'd end up killing a lot of "innocent" (meaning non-combatant) people with him. And that would just serve as a massive boost to ISIS propaganda, if the West is seen to be killing scores of civilians just to take one man out. (as has happened countless times in the past with Drone programs).