ISIS

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**david choe**

Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
The problem with assassinating the Caliph is...even if he is making lavish public appearances before huge crowds, there is the problem of collateral damage. Its not like we can just direct a Drone to the area and drop a bomb on him in the middle of his sermon.

You'd end up killing a lot of "innocent" (meaning non-combatant) people with him. And that would just serve as a massive boost to ISIS propaganda, if the West is seen to be killing scores of civilians just to take one man out. (as has happened countless times in the past with Drone programs).

The one time we missed the combatants next building and hit a mosque with the Caliphate .... I think the collateral damage is worth it. OK, so we got 150 more ISIS members to join... but what is ISIL going to do now? Your Caliphate is dead!

Man... I saw his old photo when he was in US jails .. he didn't look respectable at all. With the 1 foot beard and dark robes.. he looks like a Caliphate. Duck Dynasty can pull it off too.

**Experiment 626**

david choe wrote:
whembly wrote:
david choe wrote:
PhantomViper wrote:
CptJake wrote:
Who gives a feth which is wrong, and frankly that has zero to do with the atrocities Da'Ish is committing nor the fighting several countries and sub-national groups are doing against them. How Da'Ish interprets Islam is probably at least a bit relevant to this topic as it helps to establish motivation.

Perhaps the slagging on religion as a whole should move to a different topic unless we at least go through the effort of trying to tie the relevance to this one?

I strongly suggest that anyone interested in ISIS motivations reads the link that nels1031 posted.

If it really is true that Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi is a direct descendant from Mohamed's tribe and only he can be the Caliph, then maybe a surgical strike to kill him would bring the whole thing down since according to their own beliefs system, there wouldn't be anyone else to step up to lead ISIS or at least the pool of possible candidates would be a much smaller one than in an organization like Al-Qaeda.

That is what I said also. Kill the false Caliph and ISIS will collapse with in fighting of picking the next caliph or just lost the will to fight.

I wonder why the West or other ME nations are not planning to do this. My conclusion is they want ISIS to exist. I don't know why. Who is benefiting from ISIS existing? Could it be the War machines in the USA about to start cranking up again? Could this ISIS be connected with CIA? I don't know... but ...

Why is this Caliphate is still allow to live is beyond me.

You presume we know where he is...

He is conducting praying with masses of people. I mean.. this is not Bin Ladin hiding in caves. This Caliphate is like the pope in ISIS territory ... his job is to act as head of state and preach to his followers. I think I just heard about him last week ... he did some "preaching" in a mosque.

How hard would it be to send an spy... with GPS and locate the Caliphate...

ISIS are recruiting like crazy... if some stupid french teens can join... how hard is it to send a CIA agent there? Have the agent there and with in a few months... next prayer mosque meeting... drone strike the damn mosque and kill em all.

Like when he did this in June last year.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iraq/10948480/Islamic-State-leader-Abu-Bakr-al-Baghdadi-addresses-Muslims-in-Mosul.html

Yeah.. you must be right... he must be hiding like real hard. I remember last June... the video looks damn... easy for an assassin to be there.

Someone's watched a little too much 24...

**Shadow Captain Edithae**

david choe wrote:
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
The problem with assassinating the Caliph is...even if he is making lavish public appearances before huge crowds, there is the problem of collateral damage. Its not like we can just direct a Drone to the area and drop a bomb on him in the middle of his sermon.

You'd end up killing a lot of "innocent" (meaning non-combatant) people with him. And that would just serve as a massive boost to ISIS propaganda, if the West is seen to be killing scores of civilians just to take one man out. (as has happened countless times in the past with Drone programs).

The one time we missed the combatants next building and hit a mosque with the Caliphate .... I think the collateral damage is worth it. OK, so we got 150 more ISIS members to join... but what is ISIL going to do now? Your Caliphate is dead!

Man... I saw his old photo when he was in US jails .. he didn't look respectable at all. With the 1 foot beard and dark robes.. he looks like a Caliphate. Duck Dynasty can pull it off too.

And THATS why we're no better than ISIS...

**david choe**

Experiment 626 wrote:
david choe wrote:
whembly wrote:
david choe wrote:
PhantomViper wrote:
CptJake wrote:
Who gives a feth which is wrong, and frankly that has zero to do with the atrocities Da'Ish is committing nor the fighting several countries and sub-national groups are doing against them. How Da'Ish interprets Islam is probably at least a bit relevant to this topic as it helps to establish motivation.

Perhaps the slagging on religion as a whole should move to a different topic unless we at least go through the effort of trying to tie the relevance to this one?

I strongly suggest that anyone interested in ISIS motivations reads the link that nels1031 posted.

If it really is true that Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi is a direct descendant from Mohamed's tribe and only he can be the Caliph, then maybe a surgical strike to kill him would bring the whole thing down since according to their own beliefs system, there wouldn't be anyone else to step up to lead ISIS or at least the pool of possible candidates would be a much smaller one than in an organization like Al-Qaeda.

That is what I said also. Kill the false Caliph and ISIS will collapse with in fighting of picking the next caliph or just lost the will to fight.

I wonder why the West or other ME nations are not planning to do this. My conclusion is they want ISIS to exist. I don't know why. Who is benefiting from ISIS existing? Could it be the War machines in the USA about to start cranking up again? Could this ISIS be connected with CIA? I don't know... but ...

Why is this Caliphate is still allow to live is beyond me.

You presume we know where he is...

He is conducting praying with masses of people. I mean.. this is not Bin Ladin hiding in caves. This Caliphate is like the pope in ISIS territory ... his job is to act as head of state and preach to his followers. I think I just heard about him last week ... he did some "preaching" in a mosque.

How hard would it be to send an spy... with GPS and locate the Caliphate...

ISIS are recruiting like crazy... if some stupid french teens can join... how hard is it to send a CIA agent there? Have the agent there and with in a few months... next prayer mosque meeting... drone strike the damn mosque and kill em all.

Like when he did this in June last year.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iraq/10948480/Islamic-State-leader-Abu-Bakr-al-Baghdadi-addresses-Muslims-in-Mosul.html

Yeah.. you must be right... he must be hiding like real hard. I remember last June... the video looks damn... easy for an assassin to be there.

Someone's watched a little too much 24...

I don't watch 24. We need spy in there... I think ISIL would be easy to join. If any of you have good knowledge of Islam... you can send them and email and they will tell you how to get there.

**PhantomViper**

Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
david choe wrote:
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
The problem with assassinating the Caliph is...even if he is making lavish public appearances before huge crowds, there is the problem of collateral damage. Its not like we can just direct a Drone to the area and drop a bomb on him in the middle of his sermon.

You'd end up killing a lot of "innocent" (meaning non-combatant) people with him. And that would just serve as a massive boost to ISIS propaganda, if the West is seen to be killing scores of civilians just to take one man out. (as has happened countless times in the past with Drone programs).

The one time we missed the combatants next building and hit a mosque with the Caliphate .... I think the collateral damage is worth it. OK, so we got 150 more ISIS members to join... but what is ISIL going to do now? Your Caliphate is dead!

Man... I saw his old photo when he was in US jails .. he didn't look respectable at all. With the 1 foot beard and dark robes.. he looks like a Caliphate. Duck Dynasty can pull it off too.

And THATS why we're no better than ISIS...

We're no better than ISIS because a guy from Thailand made up a story on an internet forum?

**sirlynchmob**

Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
david choe wrote:
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
The problem with assassinating the Caliph is...even if he is making lavish public appearances before huge crowds, there is the problem of collateral damage. Its not like we can just direct a Drone to the area and drop a bomb on him in the middle of his sermon.

You'd end up killing a lot of "innocent" (meaning non-combatant) people with him. And that would just serve as a massive boost to ISIS propaganda, if the West is seen to be killing scores of civilians just to take one man out. (as has happened countless times in the past with Drone programs).

The one time we missed the combatants next building and hit a mosque with the Caliphate .... I think the collateral damage is worth it. OK, so we got 150 more ISIS members to join... but what is ISIL going to do now? Your Caliphate is dead!

Man... I saw his old photo when he was in US jails .. he didn't look respectable at all. With the 1 foot beard and dark robes.. he looks like a Caliphate. Duck Dynasty can pull it off too.

And THATS why we're no better than ISIS...

True that.

**PhantomViper**

Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

And THATS why we're no better than ISIS...

Also I keep getting more and more disgusted by your attempts to even compare modern western democracies with a terrorist state that kills children by burying them alive, continually keeps tens of thousands of sex slaves from the age of 9 and up, burns prisoners to death, holds daily crucifixion and beheading "parties", etc...

I guess its a good thing that the Dakka moderation team is much more tolerant than me, because I would have banned you a long, long time ago.

**david choe**

sirlynchmob wrote:
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
david choe wrote:
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
The problem with assassinating the Caliph is...even if he is making lavish public appearances before huge crowds, there is the problem of collateral damage. Its not like we can just direct a Drone to the area and drop a bomb on him in the middle of his sermon.

You'd end up killing a lot of "innocent" (meaning non-combatant) people with him. And that would just serve as a massive boost to ISIS propaganda, if the West is seen to be killing scores of civilians just to take one man out. (as has happened countless times in the past with Drone programs).

The one time we missed the combatants next building and hit a mosque with the Caliphate .... I think the collateral damage is worth it. OK, so we got 150 more ISIS members to join... but what is ISIL going to do now? Your Caliphate is dead!

Man... I saw his old photo when he was in US jails .. he didn't look respectable at all. With the 1 foot beard and dark robes.. he looks like a Caliphate. Duck Dynasty can pull it off too.

And THATS why we're no better than ISIS...

True that.

the cost of one building of collateral damage out weight 1000s up on 1000s for the war. BTW - chances are 90% of the people in the mosque with the Caliphate are jihadist anyway. So they are enemy combatants.

**Shadow Captain Edithae**

PhantomViper wrote:
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

And THATS why we're no better than ISIS...

Also I keep getting more and more disgusted by your attempts to even compare modern western democracies with a terrorist state that kills children by burying them alive, continually keeps tens of thousands of sex slaves from the age of 9 and up, burns prisoners to death, holds daily crucifixion and beheading "parties", etc...

But its OK for a Western bomb to blow them apart into rags of bloody flesh, right? The end result is still the same. Dead is dead. If we truly are better than ISIS, then we should be extremely careful to avoid killing non-combatants.

Your apparent willingness to hand waive away "collateral damage" (a horrible euphemism for dead women and children and non-combatant civilian men) as acceptable is what disgusts me.

I guess its a good thing that the Dakka moderation team is much more tolerant than me, because I would have banned you a long, long time ago.

So you openly admit you would censor opinions that you dislike? It truly is a good thing you're not on the moderation team, because then Free Speech would not be a thing on Dakka Dakka.

**Frazzled**

What are you, thirteen?

You're comparison of ISIL to the UK is as sad as it is stupid.

**sirlynchmob**

PhantomViper wrote:
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

And THATS why we're no better than ISIS...

Also I keep getting more and more disgusted by your attempts to even compare modern western democracies with a terrorist state that kills children by burying them alive, continually keeps tens of thousands of sex slaves from the age of 9 and up, burns prisoners to death, holds daily crucifixion and beheading "parties", etc...

I guess its a good thing that the Dakka moderation team is much more tolerant than me, because I would have banned you a long, long time ago.

Ya, ISIS should be more civilized and behead people with bombs, burn people with bombs, kill children with bombs, shoot people in the back of the head and dump the bodies in the ocean. Because that's how civilized nations perform barbaric atrocities. You could even claim the west is worst because at least ISIS looks you in the eye when they kill you, and not sit thousands of miles away using robots so they don't have to see the horrors they're committing.

**Shadow Captain Edithae**

Frazzled wrote:
What are you, thirteen?

You're comparison of ISIL to the UK is as sad as it is stupid.

No. I'm comparing David Choe's attitude that "killing civilians is acceptable" to ISIL.

**Frazzled**

This is what happens when you don't have a fixed moral compass.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
What are you, thirteen?

You're comparison of ISIL to the UK is as sad as it is stupid.

No. I'm comparing David Choe's attitude that "killing civilians is acceptable" to ISIL.

Except of course thats not what you said.

And THATS why we're no better than ISIS...

**PhantomViper**

Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
PhantomViper wrote:
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

And THATS why we're no better than ISIS...

Also I keep getting more and more disgusted by your attempts to even compare modern western democracies with a terrorist state that kills children by burying them alive, continually keeps tens of thousands of sex slaves from the age of 9 and up, burns prisoners to death, holds daily crucifixion and beheading "parties", etc...

I guess its a good thing that the Dakka moderation team is much more tolerant than me, because I would have banned you a long, long time ago.

But its OK for a Western bomb to blow them apart into rags of bloody flesh, right?

Your apparent willingness to hand waive away "collateral damage" (dead women and children) as acceptable is what disgusts me.

What western bomb?! david choe was making up an hypothetical scenario that HE made up, no modern western country would blow up a church full of women and children on purpose, no matter who the target was!

At least I hope that no one would do that.

You are the one that is always trying to make those comparisons, even in this case you are comparing a freaking made up story on the internet, from what is probably a teenager that isn't even from a western country and saying that that justifies what ISIS is doing! How you can keep defending these actions time and time again, even if you are just joking and this is all just an elaborate troll... Lets just say that I wouldn't be able to look myself in the mirror.

**Shadow Captain Edithae**

Frazzled wrote:
This is what happens when you don't have a fixed moral compass.

Funny. I could say the same about dropping a bomb on a mosque full of civilians, which is what David Choe is advocating.

**PhantomViper**

sirlynchmob wrote:
PhantomViper wrote:
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

And THATS why we're no better than ISIS...

Also I keep getting more and more disgusted by your attempts to even compare modern western democracies with a terrorist state that kills children by burying them alive, continually keeps tens of thousands of sex slaves from the age of 9 and up, burns prisoners to death, holds daily crucifixion and beheading "parties", etc...

I guess its a good thing that the Dakka moderation team is much more tolerant than me, because I would have banned you a long, long time ago.

Ya, ISIS should be more civilized and behead people with bombs, burn people with bombs, kill children with bombs, shoot people in the back of the head and dump the bodies in the ocean. Because that's how civilized nations perform barbaric atrocities. You could even claim the west is worst because at least ISIS looks you in the eye when they kill you, and not sit thousands of miles away using robots so they don't have to see the horrors they're committing.

Where is that happening? Where are western military force indiscriminately killing civilians like you say?

**Frazzled**

Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
This is what happens when you don't have a fixed moral compass.

Funny. I could say the same about dropping a bomb on a mosque full of civilians, which is what David Choe is advocating.

Funny, you seem to lack the ability to read and write properly. You stated that WE are no better than ISIL. You did not state David Chloe in which case a moderate would likely give you a love top for violating Rule #1, but WE as in all of us.

My point stands. Why do you hate yourself so much?

**PhantomViper**

Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
This is what happens when you don't have a fixed moral compass.

Funny. I could say the same about dropping a bomb on a mosque full of civilians, which is what David Choe is advocating.

David Choe is a kid from Thailand.

You are using the fantasies of a teenager to justify the very real actions that are being perpetrated by ISIS every single day.

Go away from the keyboard and think about that for a while.

**sirlynchmob**

PhantomViper wrote:
sirlynchmob wrote:
PhantomViper wrote:
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

And THATS why we're no better than ISIS...

Also I keep getting more and more disgusted by your attempts to even compare modern western democracies with a terrorist state that kills children by burying them alive, continually keeps tens of thousands of sex slaves from the age of 9 and up, burns prisoners to death, holds daily crucifixion and beheading "parties", etc...

I guess its a good thing that the Dakka moderation team is much more tolerant than me, because I would have banned you a long, long time ago.

Ya, ISIS should be more civilized and behead people with bombs, burn people with bombs, kill children with bombs, shoot people in the back of the head and dump the bodies in the ocean. Because that's how civilized nations perform barbaric atrocities. You could even claim the west is worst because at least ISIS looks you in the eye when they kill you, and not sit thousands of miles away using robots so they don't have to see the horrors they're committing.

Where is that happening? Where are western military force indiscriminately killing civilians like you say?

In case you either didn't hear, or pretend it doesn't happen. Go read up on Americas drone program. I've quoted and posted links to it earlier.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/nov/24/-sp-us-drone-strikes-kill-1147
From 2 strikes missing the intended target:
"Eight years later, Zawahiri is still alive. Seventy-six children and 29 adults, according to reports after the two strikes, are not. "

**Shadow Captain Edithae**

PhantomViper wrote:
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
PhantomViper wrote:
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

And THATS why we're no better than ISIS...

Also I keep getting more and more disgusted by your attempts to even compare modern western democracies with a terrorist state that kills children by burying them alive, continually keeps tens of thousands of sex slaves from the age of 9 and up, burns prisoners to death, holds daily crucifixion and beheading "parties", etc...

I guess its a good thing that the Dakka moderation team is much more tolerant than me, because I would have banned you a long, long time ago.

But its OK for a Western bomb to blow them apart into rags of bloody flesh, right?

Your apparent willingness to hand waive away "collateral damage" (dead women and children) as acceptable is what disgusts me.

What western bomb?! david choe was making up an hypothetical scenario that HE made up, no modern western country would blow up a church full of women and children on purpose, no matter who the target was!

At least I hope that no one would do that.

You are the one that is always trying to make those comparisons, even in this case you are comparing a freaking made up story on the internet, from what is probably a teenager that isn't even from a western country and saying that that justifies what ISIS is doing! How you can keep defending these actions time and time again, even if you are just joking and this is all just an elaborate troll... Lets just say that I wouldn't be able to look myself in the mirror.

Where have I ever defended ISIS? I fething despise them. I'm anti Islam in general (just see my posts in the Charlie Hebdo thread), and ISIS are the most hardline of Muslims.

But just because ISIS is bad, doesn't mean we should be bad too. Deliberately bombing Mosques full of civilians IS comparable to ISIS, I think.

Except of course thats not what you said.

And THATS why we're no better than ISIS...

Yes, I should have been more clear.

"IF we did this, we'd be no better than ISIS".

Heat of the moment. Thats what happens when responding to some loon who proposes that blowing up a building packed with civilians is acceptable as long as we kill one bad guy.

**Frazzled**

Thats anything but indiscriminate. Indiscriminate is sending 500 B-52s to carpet bomb the entire region, or nuking it.

Are people just not educated now? Is that it? They have no conception of history or proportion.

**Shadow Captain Edithae**

PhantomViper wrote:
You are using the fantasies of a teenager to justify the very real actions that are being perpetrated by ISIS every single day.

In what sick twisted way does condemning the deliberate bombing of scores of civilians to kill one bad guy amount to justifying ISIS's actions?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Frazzled wrote:
Thats anything but indiscriminate. Indiscriminate is sending 500 B-52s to carpet bomb the entire region, or nuking it.

Are people just not educated now? Is that it? They have no conception of history or proportion.

Dropping a bomb on a crowd of people to kill one man is not indiscriminate?

**PhantomViper**

sirlynchmob wrote:

In case you either didn't hear, or pretend it doesn't happen. Go read up on Americas drone program. I've quoted and posted links to it earlier.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/nov/24/-sp-us-drone-strikes-kill-1147
From 2 strikes missing the intended target:
"Eight years later, Zawahiri is still alive. Seventy-six children and 29 adults, according to reports after the two strikes, are not. "

Did you read the "missing the intended target" part? Or are you saying that its the same thing? That purposefully targeting civilians for slavery, rape and extermination is the same thing as bombs that missed their intended target and killed civilians by mistake?

You are just as bad as Edithae and both of you really should be ashamed of what you are saying here.

**Frazzled**

Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
PhantomViper wrote:
You are using the fantasies of a teenager to justify the very real actions that are being perpetrated by ISIS every single day.

In what sick twisted way does condemning the deliberate bombing of scores of civilians to kill one bad guy amount to justifying ISIS's actions?

Because AGAIN thats not what you said. You typed this:

And THATS why we're no better than ISIS...

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Frazzled wrote:
Thats anything but indiscriminate. Indiscriminate is sending 500 B-52s to carpet bomb the entire region, or nuking it.

Are people just not educated now? Is that it? They have no conception of history or proportion.

Dropping a bomb on a crowd of people to kill one man is not indiscriminate?

**PhantomViper**

Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
PhantomViper wrote:
You are using the fantasies of a teenager to justify the very real actions that are being perpetrated by ISIS every single day.

In what sick twisted way does condemning the deliberate bombing of scores of civilians to kill one bad guy amount to justifying ISIS's actions?

Because that deliberate bombing never actually happened and you still used it to say that WE are "just as bad as ISIS".

**Shadow Captain Edithae**

a missile launched at one person is very discriminate. How would you kill said terrorist?

By waiting until he's not standing in the middle of a fething crowd.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

PhantomViper wrote:
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
PhantomViper wrote:
You are using the fantasies of a teenager to justify the very real actions that are being perpetrated by ISIS every single day.

In what sick twisted way does condemning the deliberate bombing of scores of civilians to kill one bad guy amount to justifying ISIS's actions?

Because that deliberate bombing never actually happened and you still used it to say that WE are "just as bad as ISIS".

Except of course thats not what you said.

And THATS why we're no better than ISIS...

Yes, I should have been more clear.

"IF we did this, we'd be no better than ISIS".

**david choe**

PhantomViper wrote:
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
This is what happens when you don't have a fixed moral compass.

Funny. I could say the same about dropping a bomb on a mosque full of civilians, which is what David Choe is advocating.

David Choe is a kid from Thailand.

You are using the fantasies of a teenager to justify the very real actions that are being perpetrated by ISIS every single day.

Go away from the keyboard and think about that for a while.

Take it easy on the insult there guy....
I an't a kid from Thailand. I'm a man who live in and work in Thailand.

Yes, my MO is that collateral damage is acceptable to saves lives. But I also pointed out that chances are they are jihadist in the mosque because women and children will not be allow with the men. The thing about ISIL is they are predictable too... you know only men will be in there... and they all are some of the most hardcore jihadist too.

Even if it was all women in there 100 women... to saves 100,000 in wars...I wouldn't even think twice of giving to order to take out the caliphate. It is silly to not use your freaking head in a war.

**Frazzled**

Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
a missile launched at one person is very discriminate. How would you kill said terrorist?

By waiting until he's not standing in the middle of a fething crowd.

What if he's always in a crowd?

If Hitler was always in a crowd would it have been bad to bomb him?

**Shadow Captain Edithae**

Are you two really saying you think its a good idea to drop a bomb on a crowd of people to kill one man?

Thats what I'm ranting about, and you still haven't clarified your opinion on that.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Frazzled wrote:
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
a missile launched at one person is very discriminate. How would you kill said terrorist?

By waiting until he's not standing in the middle of a fething crowd.

What if he's always in a crowd?

If Hitler was always in a crowd would it have been bad to bomb him?

Yes.

So you've killed your intended target. But you've still killed X number of innocent non-combatant people too,

When you start engaging in moral relativism like that, you no longer have a "Fixed Moral Compass" as you like to call it.

**Frazzled**

A missile is not a bomb.

If by not killing that man it results in more deaths of equal or larger number than the innocents injured than pure logic says you must take the shot.
EDIT: So you're willing for hundreds of thousands or millions of people to die? Speaking of being a monster.