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No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
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Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
plastictrees wrote: Are we gloating about which war-criminals our governments are supporting for their own gain now?
That's not how I took it at all. I saw it as Baron jadedly pointing out the realities of maintaining power, and Jihadin reminding him we're not any better. No gloating, and they're both right.
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plastictrees wrote: Are we gloating about which war-criminals our governments are supporting for their own gain now?
That's not how I took it at all. I saw it as Baron jadedly pointing out the realities of maintaining power, and Jihadin reminding him we're not any better. No gloating, and they're both right.
I really wish one day they'd fix my little flag. It's irritating to point out hypocrisy and have someone go 'But you're an American and what about..."
People never read my 'location'.
Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
plastictrees wrote: Are we gloating about which war-criminals our governments are supporting for their own gain now?
That's not how I took it at all. I saw it as Baron jadedly pointing out the realities of maintaining power, and Jihadin reminding him we're not any better. No gloating, and they're both right.
I really wish one day they'd fix my little flag. It's irritating to point out hypocrisy and have someone go 'But you're an American and what about..."
People never read my 'location'.
I'm in the same boat. I wish they'd change my British flag to a Scottish flag, as I'm part of a group trying to break away from Britain, but do the Mods listen? Nah.
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
plastictrees wrote: Are we gloating about which war-criminals our governments are supporting for their own gain now?
That's not how I took it at all. I saw it as Baron jadedly pointing out the realities of maintaining power, and Jihadin reminding him we're not any better. No gloating, and they're both right.
I really wish one day they'd fix my little flag. It's irritating to point out hypocrisy and have someone go 'But you're an American and what about..."
People never read my 'location'.
But your location is in the US, right? I thought Indians were also Americans.
Iron_Captain wrote: But your location is in the US, right? I thought Indians were also Americans.
Only in the sense that Luxembourg is in Europe. Unlike most, we have a treaty with the US that says we're a separate sovereign nation. And, no, not all Native Americans are US citizens, though dual citizenship is fairly common.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/10/11 17:32:50
Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
Iron_Captain wrote: But your location is in the US, right? I thought Indians were also Americans.
Only in the sense that Luxembourg is in Europe. Unlike most, we have a treaty with the US that says we're a separate sovereign nation. And, no, not all Native Americans are US citizens, though dual citizenship is fairly common.
Interesting. But you are still American, right? just like Komi are Russian. You can have many nations within one state. Can you explain how you are you any less American than other Americans? And those native Americans that do not have US citizenship, what citizenship do they have?
You can have many nations within one state. Can you explain how you are you any less American than other Americans?
We're a totally separate state. We even have paper that says so that the US signed and ratified. They have to pay us rent for our territory they use and we have the right to buy back our lands from them, which we've been slowly doing. At the moment we've gotten a big chunk of downtown Buffalo, New York, all of Salamanca, parts of Niagara Falls, and are slowly working on buying up the rest of Western New York. Our national industries produce more than a million dollars US profit a day.
And a government that fully embraces socialism. As long as you're a second class citizen or better.
We have our own laws, courts, police, foreign policy, tariffs, elections, parties, capitol building, war memorials, national library, national museum, and road maintenance. We however do use US currency, and, by treaty, tend to hand over violent offenders to New York, which saves on the cost of maintaining a prison. We're also prohibited by treaty from maintaining our own armed forces, though we've been working on that.
Baron, you're US citizen. There is no independent country named "Indian States". Not even any state or location, dedicated to Indian authorities.
Even russian Tatarstan, Sakha, and Buryat republics have more independency and still is a part of Russia just like any other part of Russia.
Mordant 92nd 'Acid Dogs'
The Lost and Damned
Inquisition
Freakazoitt wrote: Baron, you're US citizen. There is no independent country named "Indian States". Not even any state or location, dedicated to Indian authorities.
Even russian Tatarstan, Sakha, and Buryat republics have more independency and still is a part of Russia just like any other part of Russia.
Not necessarily, Native American reservations are effectively independent city states. The Seneca just have the largest and most independent of them. If you're born on a reservation, you don't automatically get US citizenship, though it is stupid easy for them to aquire it. They own their land, and have in the past evicted "the white man" from it very legally. They aren't UN recognized, but it is its own territory, and we don't have rights to it short of using military force.
(Correct me if I messed up here, using a tablt to google and post, along with memory)
Edit:spelling
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/10/12 01:53:15
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Freakazoitt wrote: Baron, you're US citizen. There is no independent country named "Indian States". Not even any state or location, dedicated to Indian authorities.
Even russian Tatarstan, Sakha, and Buryat republics have more independency and still is a part of Russia just like any other part of Russia.
Under the terms of the treaty of Buffalo Creek, we are an independent nation.
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
I believe only the Iroquois nation is actually an independent nation. The vast majority of reservations are still under the jurisdiction of the US federal government, via the Bureau of Indian Affairs.
They are territories which have their own governance and laws, overseen by the Feds. More independent than other US territories, like Puerto Rico etc..., that aren't states. They're really a rather unique situation, which leads to some problems especially when it comes to crimes.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/10/12 01:59:31
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Not necessarily, Native American reservations are effectively independent city states. The Seneca just have the largest and most independent of them. If you're born on a reservation, you don't automatically get US citizenship, though it is stupid easy for them to aquire it. They own their land, and have in the past evicted "the white man" from it very legally. They aren't UN recognized, but it is its own territory, and we don't have rights to it short of using military force.
It's close enough. There are standing agreements between the Seneca and the US and the State of New York to handle certain things like the aforementioned lack of a prison, and we do use the US Postal Service (another agreement). On the flip side, we've arrested and deported US Federal agents and New York State Police in the past for violations of the law. This has bit us on the ass in the other direction as well, as under Seneca law, a thief only has to return what was stolen, or pay a fine to the victim if it can't be returned in the same condition. This became an issue when Susan Kessler, the VP of IT at Seneca Gaming, stole the customer database. As she did return her laptop with the copy she had taken on it, she could not be criminally prosecuted, and instead is being sued for breach of contract.
Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
They get to live in the US with a special name? To any one in the world, they will simply be seen or recognized as American. Even after reading about this all I see is another named group of Americans a part of a huge nation.
For only 8 thousand people it seems kind of silly.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/10/12 02:06:25
I believe only the Iroquois nation is actually an independent nation.
So, there should be 50 states + Iroquois state. But still, I think it will be part of USA, not independent country like Canada or Mexico.
Technically, they are as independent from the US as Canada is. Of course they aren't anywhere close to being self-sufficient and stand-alone, so IMO their existence as their own nation state is a little silly and unnecessarily complicates things for anyone who has to deal with it(this applies to all reservations in general IMO). But thats how it is.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
The 8k is a fairly small percentage of the Seneca population, and it's been the subject of some debate. The actual number of Seneca is much larger, but those 8k are the ones who can vote as 'Registered' Seneca. It's complicated, and partially the US fault. Those members can trace their ancestry down the matrilinial line from Seneca to Seneca since the US passed the Dawes act. This was done to prevent anyone from being able to claim that we sold land to whites, and thus invalidating our national sovereignty.
And, rather bluntly, we're not American. Many Americans have been shocked when they find out they don't have the same protections under the law here, such as search and seizure.
Technically, they are as independent from the US as Canada is. Of course they aren't anywhere close to being self-sufficient and stand-alone, so IMO their existence as their own nation state is a little silly and unnecessarily complicates things for anyone who has to deal with it(this applies to all reservations in general IMO). But thats how it is.
Working on it. We have a manufacturing base now, and a variety of income, but the real issue is that it takes a long time to buy up a area the size of western New York. Unless the US changes it's laws about us being able to buy back out lands, we'll get there eventually. It'd go a lot faster if the US and State of NY gave us back the national and state parks that abut us, instead of squeezing us along narrow corridors if we are to buy adjoining land. (Though us buying up downtown Buffalo was apparently a shock. I guess it didn't occur to them that we didn't have to just buy property adjoining our existing territory. )
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/10/12 02:33:24
Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
Legally the Iroquois nation is a separate nation with a very special relationship with US. Looking at the reality however, the Iroquois nation would not survive without the US. They are in a dependent relationship. And, realistically, if it had the intuition to do so, the US government could easily just ignore every act they signed, and re-annex the land (as it has done, it must be at least dozens of times). Although this isn't to suggest it will, or indeed it should.
Those in it will be treated as Americans by anyone not from america (and most people from america as well). It's the reality of the situation. It's not a bad thing though, plenty of people disagree with the US government, and just being treated as an "american" does not mean that you must unequivocally support the US government (it's not Russia after all ). Basically, it's pointless to go "oh I'm not an american, I'm a Seneca Indian." Because you will be treated the same. You are, for all intents and purposes, american. But that has as much to do with what you believe or represent as it does with me, I.E. absolutely nothing.
Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
kronk wrote: Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
sebster wrote: Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens
BaronIveagh wrote: Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace.
I think, that "independance" is just temporary until it will interfere with USA laws.
There is no native indian government, recognized by other countries.
No territory, protected by international laws.
No borders, no security, no army, no budget, no international relations etc.
Why not to pretend to be independet and just make authonomy or something like that?
Mordant 92nd 'Acid Dogs'
The Lost and Damned
Inquisition
Freakazoitt wrote: I think, that "independance" is just temporary until it will interfere with USA laws.
True, they're not independent in the sense that they can do anything they want without US approval. And foreign powers make treaties with the US, not individual Indian Nations. But many tribal lands or reservations are recognized as separate areas within the US, allowed to handle their own internal affairs without state or federal interference. As long as they don't declare war on the US they're safe. Certainly better than being a minority people in Russia, even if Stalin is no longer deporting or destroying them.
I'm surprised by the number of people that seem to still beleive in the "moderate rebel" myth.
Frankly, if Russia wants to take on the cost of blowing up jihadi's for a bit....well they've got a track record of brutality that might actually get the job done. Also neatly hushes up the Ukraine situation, a little "unexpected" side bonus for Mr Putin...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/10/12 05:49:09
...Because surely no non-Islamist extremest want to get rid of a brutal dictator.
Edit: now that isn't to say that it hasn't been largely take over by jihadist groups (it's theorized that is where ISIS grew it's roots), but the idea that there are none at all is ridiculous.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/10/12 05:57:22
Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
kronk wrote: Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
sebster wrote: Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens
BaronIveagh wrote: Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace.
Mordant 92nd 'Acid Dogs'
The Lost and Damned
Inquisition
). Basically, it's pointless to go "oh I'm not an american, I'm a Seneca Indian." Because you will be treated the same. You are, for all intents and purposes, american. But that has as much to do with what you believe or represent as it does with me, I.E. absolutely nothing.
The Undying Spawn of Shub-Niggurath 