ISIS

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**Iron_Captain**

CptJake wrote:
Kilkrazy wrote:
You support the use of nuclear weapons against Syria and Iraq, then?

From a weaponeering and targeteering perspective tactical nukes are the wrong munition for anything we need to be hitting.

But now that nuking Kazachstan is out of the question, Russia does happen to be in need of a new desert to test its nuclear weapons. From a weapons engineering perspective, testing your weapons and having a proper testing ground for doing so is very important. Many useful data could be collected.

**loki old fart**

The US is to send some 10,000 troops to Iraq to provide support for a 90,000-strong force from the Gulf states, a leading Iraqi opposition MP has warned. The politician said the plan was announced to the Iraqi government during a visit by US Senator John McCain.

https://www.rt.com/news/325477-arab-army-iraq-plan/

During a meeting in Baghdad on November 27, McCain told Prime Minister Haider Abadi and a number of senior Iraqi cabinet and military officials that the decision was ‘non-negotiable’, claimed Hanan Fatlawi, the head of the opposition Irada Movement.

“A hundred thousand foreign troops, including 90,000 from Saudi Arabia, the UAE, Qatar and Jordan, and 10,000 troops from America will be deployed in western regions of Iraq,” she wrote on her Facebook page.

She added that the Iraqi prime minister protested the plan, but was told that “the decision has already been taken.”

McCain and fellow hawk Senator Lindsey Graham have both been calling for a tripling in the current number of US troops deployed in Iraq to 10,000, and also advocate sending an equal number of troops to Syria to fight against the terrorist group Islamic State (IS, formerly ISIS/ISIL) and the government of Syrian President Bashar Assad. The Americans would prop up a 90,000-strong international ground force provided by Sunni Arab countries like Egypt, Turkey and Saudi Arabia.

“The region is ready to fight. The region hates ISIL – they are coming for Sunni Arab nations. Turkey hates ISIL. The entire region wants Assad gone. So there is an opportunity here with some American leadership to do two things: to hit ISIL before we get hit at home and to push Assad out,” Graham argued during the joint visit to Baghdad in November.

“Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Turkey – they have regional armies and they would go into the fight if we put [the removal of] Assad on the table. Most of the fight will be done by the region. They will pay for this war,” he added.

If this goes down we'll all pay.

**Easy E**

Since when did McCain and Graham get to order troop deployments?

**Freakazoitt**

If you run after two hares, you will catch neither

**loki old fart**

Easy E wrote:
Since when did McCain and Graham get to order troop deployments?

Hopefully it's BS, because it's the worst thing that could happen.

**BaronIveagh**

loki old fart wrote:

Hopefully it's BS, because it's the worst thing that could happen.

It is, because other than Turkey, those nations armies are tied up in Yeman, fighting in the war there. Unless they pluck victory out of their ass suddenly, I don't see large scale re-deployments anytime soon.

**Kilkrazy**

Iron_Captain wrote:
CptJake wrote:
Kilkrazy wrote:
You support the use of nuclear weapons against Syria and Iraq, then?

From a weaponeering and targeteering perspective tactical nukes are the wrong munition for anything we need to be hitting.

But now that nuking Kazachstan is out of the question, Russia does happen to be in need of a new desert to test its nuclear weapons. From a weapons engineering perspective, testing your weapons and having a proper testing ground for doing so is very important. Many useful data could be collected.

Maybe use Aral Sea? I've read it's becoming desert.

**Freakazoitt**

No no, third of Kazakhstan already suffering from nuclears and chemical pollution. I disagree such test to be done near places people living.

**plastictrees**

Iron_Captain wrote:
CptJake wrote:
Kilkrazy wrote:
You support the use of nuclear weapons against Syria and Iraq, then?

From a weaponeering and targeteering perspective tactical nukes are the wrong munition for anything we need to be hitting.

But now that nuking Kazachstan is out of the question, Russia does happen to be in need of a new desert to test its nuclear weapons. From a weapons engineering perspective, testing your weapons and having a proper testing ground for doing so is very important. Many useful data could be collected.

Just need to test out their oil field obliterating capacity to give the Russian economy a boost.
....and the Canadian economy for that matter...proceed.

**AlmightyWalrus**

Freakazoitt wrote:
No no, third of Kazakhstan already suffering from nuclears and chemical pollution. I disagree such test to be done near places people living.

I thought Novaya Zemlya was the nuclear testing grounds? Surely that's still Russian?

**Iron_Captain**

AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Freakazoitt wrote:
No no, third of Kazakhstan already suffering from nuclears and chemical pollution. I disagree such test to be done near places people living.

I thought Novaya Zemlya was the nuclear testing grounds? Surely that's still Russian?

Yeah, but there is polar bears there. Got to think about environmental protection and saving endangered species nowadays. Besides, it is not a desert. The US tests nukes in a desert. We want one too.

**Freakazoitt**

Putin says he will support non-terrorist Syrian opposition.

http://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2015/12/11/putin-urges-military-to-destroy-threats-to-forces-in-syria

**AlmightyWalrus**

Iron_Captain wrote:
AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Freakazoitt wrote:
No no, third of Kazakhstan already suffering from nuclears and chemical pollution. I disagree such test to be done near places people living.

I thought Novaya Zemlya was the nuclear testing grounds? Surely that's still Russian?

Yeah, but there is polar bears there. Got to think about environmental protection and saving endangered species nowadays. Besides, it is not a desert. The US tests nukes in a desert. We want one too.

Isn't Novaya Zemlya far enough north to be a cold desert?

**plastictrees**

Freakazoitt wrote:
Putin says he will support non-terrorist Syrian opposition.

http://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2015/12/11/putin-urges-military-to-destroy-threats-to-forces-in-syria

Has this been clarified further? The following up commentary as ambiguous.

**Freakazoitt**

plastictrees wrote:
Freakazoitt wrote:
Putin says he will support non-terrorist Syrian opposition.

http://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2015/12/11/putin-urges-military-to-destroy-threats-to-forces-in-syria

Has this been clarified further? The following up commentary as ambiguous.

Not yet. Some say it's mistake about pro-Assad militia. But it's not named "Free Syrian Army".

**jhe90**

Given Putin seemed to targeting the militia against Assad earlier.

The various groups and alignments are crazy complex, between inter group links, state backing and such. Theres alot of room for errors in journalism.

I mean if you went reseached and made a hige complex flow chart of who was for and against who.

by the time you had done it would be out of date.

**Jihadin**

This is Putin. Don't predict, clarified, guess, and enlighten his words.
I think Hanse Davion might be able to give Putin a run for his money

**Breotan**

Well, let's file this next article in the "Doesn't that just make you feel safe?" bin.

Authentic blank passports in the hands of terrorists. What could possibly go wrong?

http://news.yahoo.com/jihadists-stole-tens-thousands-blank-passports-report-154955786.html;_ylt=AwrXgiO003ZWWEsA_z_QtDMD;_ylu=X3oDMTByMjR0MTVzBGNvbG8DZ3ExBHBvcwM3BHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzcg--

IS jihadists stole 'tens of thousands' of blank passports: report

Berlin (AFP) - The Islamic State group may have stolen "tens of thousands" of blank passports that it could use to smuggle its fighters into Europe as refugees, a German newspaper reported Sunday.

The Welt am Sonntag cited Western intelligence sources as saying that IS could have acquired the stolen travel documents in areas of Syria, Iraq and Libya it now controls.

The passports could be issued to would-be attackers to enter the European Union as asylum seekers, according to the report.

Moreover IS has already launched a money-spinning operation with the fake documents, selling them on the black market where they fetch up to 1,500 euros ($1,630) each, Welt said.

European authorities have repeatedly warned of the potential threat posed by refugees travelling with counterfeit documents.

The two unidentified Stade de France attackers in Paris have been tracked back to two fake Syrian passports used to enter Europe.

"The large influx of people who are travelling to Europe unchecked represents a security risk," the head of EU border agency Frontex, Fabrice Leggeri, told Welt.

Leggeri said that passports issued in war-ravaged countries such as Syria where conditions are chaotic mean that no one can guarantee "that documents that look real were actually issued by an official authority".

Asked about the report, the German interior ministry offered a similar assessment.

"In light of the large number of entering migrants, it cannot be ruled out that among them are for example, criminals, war criminals, members of militant groups or terror organisations. or individuals with extremist views," a spokesman told AFP.

"At the same time, it cannot be ruled out that these people are carrying fake documents."

The German government said last week that it had initially overestimated the proportion of people entering the country with fake Syrian passports, which was in fact far less than the 30 percent announced by the interior minister in September.

Germany has to date maintained an open-door policy for Syrians escaping their country's bloodshed, giving them "primary protection" -- the highest status for refugees.

Germany is Europe's top destination for refugees, most of whom travel through Turkey and the Balkans, and expects more than one million arrivals this year.

**LethalShade**

Great.

**CptJake**

So it is not just Trump, seems the DoD wants to take the interwebz away from DaIsh too.

http://www.latimes.com/world/la-fg-cyber-isis-20151220-story.html

In part:

The Pentagon is considering increasing the pace and scope of cyberattacks against Islamic State, arguing that more aggressive efforts to disable the extremist group's computers, servers and cellphones could help curtail its appeal and disrupt potential terrorist attacks.

Military hackers and coders at Cyber Command, based at Fort Meade, Md., have developed an array of malware that could be used to sabotage the militants' propaganda and recruitment capabilities, said U.S. officials, who were not authorized to speak publicly on internal discussions.

**Grey Templar**

While I approve of trying to disable their computers and stuff, using viruses might not be the best approach. They could get out into the internet at large and disable unintentional targets.

**BaronIveagh**

Military hackers and coders at Cyber Command, based at Fort Meade, Md., have developed an array of malware that could be used to sabotage the militants' propaganda and recruitment capabilities, said U.S. officials, who were not authorized to speak publicly on internal discussions.

Just wait till some bright bulb catches one of their toys in the wild, reverse engineers it, and lets it loose on the NYSE.

**LethalShade**

CptJake wrote:

Military hackers and coders at Cyber Command, based at Fort Meade, Md., have developed an array of malware that could be used to sabotage the militants' propaganda and recruitment capabilities, said U.S. officials, who were not authorized to speak publicly on internal discussions.

**Breotan**

LethalShade wrote:
CptJake wrote:

Military hackers and coders at Cyber Command, based at Fort Meade, Md., have developed an array of malware that could be used to sabotage the militants' propaganda and recruitment capabilities, said U.S. officials, who were not authorized to speak publicly on internal discussions.

I can see this backfire pretty easily.

It could also be a false claim put out as part of a psyops operation.

**curran12**

Against ISIS, we need to use our most devastating digital weapons.

I propose we air-drop 1,000,000 AOL trial CDs, and deploy ten thousand copies of Bonzi Buddy immediately.

**Easy E**

curran12 wrote:
Against ISIS, we need to use our most devastating digital weapons.

I propose we air-drop 1,000,000 AOL trial CDs, and deploy ten thousand copies of Bonzi Buddy immediately.

Wow!

We better check with John Yoo and make sure that isn't some sort of torture program or against the Geneva Convention or something!

**BaronIveagh**

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-35162523

Amnesty Int is claiming Russia has used cluster bombs on civilians in Syria. Moscow says they'll look into it. According to witnesses they nailed a marketplace with one, no obvious military targets near by.

I know Russia is not signatory to the Convention on Cluster Munitions, but...

**Howard A Treesong**

Russia doesn't care that much about their own civilians if you cast your mind back to the way the theatre siege was handled. They care even less about someone else's civilians, it's all just collateral damage. There's nothing like the hand-wringing we show in the West when bombing a big civilian target.

**NuggzTheNinja**

Howard A Treesong wrote:
Russia doesn't care that much about their own civilians if you cast your mind back to the way the theatre siege was handled. They care even less about someone else's civilians, it's all just collateral damage. There's nothing like the hand-wringing we show in the West when bombing a big civilian target.

It's hard to blame the Russians specifically for using cluster munitions considering literally every state that spends a serious percentage of its cash flow on defense develops and uses cluster munitions, the US included.

**Iron_Captain**

Howard A Treesong wrote:
Russia doesn't care that much about their own civilians if you cast your mind back to the way the theatre siege was handled. They care even less about someone else's civilians, it's all just collateral damage. There's nothing like the hand-wringing we show in the West when bombing a big civilian target.

Russia cares a lot about its (ethnic Russian) citizens, just look at how hawkish the Russian government is when it comes to protecting Russians abroad. But in war, Russia has a very different approach to collateral damage than the West. It can be summed up as the goal justifies the means. As long as you take out the terrorist, who is going to care you blew up half the town?
Altough in the case of Nord-Ost, I will argue that the reason for the use of gas was incapability. The Russian Special Forces at that time, only 11 years after the collapse of the SU, were not capable of dealing with this kind of situation without causing massive casualties to their own men and hostages, as shown in Beslan. Therefore the use of gas was the safest way to take out the hostages and save as much people as possible. A less strong gas would have given the terrorists time to kill their hostages.