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The idiotic teenager in me is currently laughing at all the situations that name could be used in
Spoiler:
"Sir, we're afraid our tank was destroyed by a Fagot," "Sir, intelligence suggests that the enemy has a large number of Fagots, which will pose a real danger to our tanks." "Sir, we stand no chance in a full-frontal assault! Our tanks cannot go head-to-head against their Fagots and the sheer power of their missiles!"
But in all seriousness, I hope that the IS forces don't have a lot of these. I can't see how the first tank crew could have survived that. From the video it looks like the interior of the tank was a blazing inferno so I hope that if the crew did die, it was in the initial blast rather than the fire afterwards. :(
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/09/19 16:14:18
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
The idiotic teenager in me is currently laughing at all the situations that name could be used in
Spoiler:
"Sir, we're afraid our tank was destroyed by a Fagot,"
"Sir, intelligence suggests that the enemy has a large number of Fagots, which will pose a real danger to our tanks."
"Sir, we stand no chance in a full-frontal assault! Our tanks cannot go head-to-head against their Fagots and the sheer power of their missiles!"
The real danger of the Fagot, is when it comes into the rear.
You know, the crew of the first one may have survived that hit. Looks like the blow off panels over the ammo storage may have worked as they are supposed to. It actually looks like a couple guys get out (one from TCs hatch and possible the driver before the video cuts away).
Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings.
Man that looked.... nothing like I expected it to. I mean the explosion and cookoff, that looked like I expected, but the ATGM - it was so much slower and corkscrewy than I thought.
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote: The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
damages of cars and no damages to surrounding ground points that the shelling was made by munitions that explode in the air. this is not the rebels. it is not the Syrian army. probably not Turkey. Its either Russia or the USA
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/09/22 05:48:24
Mordant 92nd 'Acid Dogs'
The Lost and Damned
Inquisition
damages of cars and no damages to surrounding ground points that the shelling was made by munitions that explode in the air. this is not the rebels. it is not the Syrian army. probably not Turkey. Its either Russia or the USA
On the ground they found parts of an OFAB 250-270, supposedly.
Looks like a Russian bomb fragment to me, but I'm cautious about the source.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/09/25 11:41:45
Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
Freakazoitt wrote: FAB makes holes and burn surroundings. I dont believe all these paper boxes would survive explosion. Its probably just shell moved there
The fragment could have gotten flung there by the explosion, but yes, it's not proof of anything by itself.
For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back.
Freakazoitt wrote: FAB makes holes and burn surroundings. I dont believe all these paper boxes would survive explosion. Its probably just shell moved there
The fragment could have gotten flung there by the explosion, but yes, it's not proof of anything by itself.
Now I'm not sure who bombed, why bombed and what munitions. Independent experts say that this is similar to an fragmentary explosion in the air. The Americans say that the Su-24 air strike and barreled bomb from Syrian helicopter. Russia says nothing. Someone wrote that it was a setup made by the rebels.
Mordant 92nd 'Acid Dogs'
The Lost and Damned
Inquisition
The Western coalition forces in the area should have at LEAST one AWACS plane in the air in that region, right? They have detection ranges of ~400km or something, and the convoy location was not that deep inside Syrian territory. Su-24 are no stealth aircraft. Someone was wondering in another forum, and maybe correctly, I think - why aren't the US or other Western forces mentioning that they had planes on their radar, but instead having this mixed helicopter/aircraft story? Shouldn't they be pretty sure it was one or the other with the surveillance abilities available to them?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/09/26 05:04:43
Witzkatz wrote: The Western coalition forces in the area should have at LEAST one AWACS plane in the air in that region, right? They have detection ranges of ~400km or something, and the convoy location was not that deep inside Syrian territory. Su-24 are no stealth aircraft. Someone was wondering in another forum, and maybe correctly, I think - why aren't the US or other Western forces mentioning that they had planes on their radar, but instead having this mixed helicopter/aircraft story? Shouldn't they be pretty sure it was one or the other with the surveillance abilities available to them?
You are not thinking politically and strategically.
Suppose the US/UK/France releases information that confirms that Russia or Assad deliberately bombed the aid convoy. What happens next that has any benefit to negotiations to end the conflict without escalation or wont politically poison the western governments involvement?
What if surveillance data confirmed rebel involvement?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/09/26 10:19:15
Yeah, whoever did it, and whatever the data says, it is probably more embarrasing and problematic if it is disclosed than if it is left to disperse in the wind after having its 5 minutes of TV.
In political and diplomatic terms, I mean. In people terms it is a horrible thing that should be investigated and the responsibles punished, but is anyone seriously expecting that to happen?
It's been a while since I contributed to this thread, but a few minutes ago, I was browising wikipedia.
I was looking at the Operation Market Garden page, and the commanders involved, and the forces used.
You have two neat columns, Allies and Axis, obviously, with the units underneath.
Field Marshall Montgomery, XXX Corps, 82nd Airborne etc etc
and then the same for the German side...
I then looked at the Syrian Civil War page.
And holy cow!
The number of nations, different groups, commanders involved...
I nearly had a migraine. I cannot understand who is who, or what is what!
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
Yeah, it's a gigantic clusterfeth, as tends to happen with civil wars. There's no neat dividing line between one side and the other, there's multiple sides with groups shifting back and forth and vested interests by some outside powers in each and some that simply want the current situation to stay the way it is forever.
Whats worse is that ultimately, for many outside powers, the outcome is of little or no real value to their actual strategic interests, but they have to act like it is...just because.
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
Vaktathi wrote: Yeah, it's a gigantic clusterfeth, as tends to happen with civil wars. There's no neat dividing line between one side and the other, there's multiple sides with groups shifting back and forth and vested interests by some outside powers in each and some that simply want the current situation to stay the way it is forever.
Whats worse is that ultimately, for many outside powers, the outcome is of little or no real value to their actual strategic interests, but they have to act like it is...just because.
Russia I can get - they're protecting a long term ally. Iran and Saudi Arabia fighting each other in a proxy war makes sense.
But the rest?
I have no idea why the USA is involved, and if HRC wins next month, expect it to escalate.
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
Because the US always has to do *something*, just because we can
Seemingly just to reinforce the fact that we can and we're the big dogs, or because we always "want to help the good guys" even when that's impossible to determine, or have shortsighted goals of removing uncooperative dictators because "they're bad" (we have a history of that over there...), or just because someone thought they'd have a hand in reshaping a new Syrian government more friendly to the US.
Also if the US does nothing then half the world screams "why aren't you doing anything?", which is understandable from an emotional perspective, but ignores the realities on the ground.
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
Vaktathi wrote: Yeah, it's a gigantic clusterfeth, as tends to happen with civil wars. There's no neat dividing line between one side and the other, there's multiple sides with groups shifting back and forth and vested interests by some outside powers in each and some that simply want the current situation to stay the way it is forever.
Whats worse is that ultimately, for many outside powers, the outcome is of little or no real value to their actual strategic interests, but they have to act like it is...just because.
Russia I can get - they're protecting a long term ally. Iran and Saudi Arabia fighting each other in a proxy war makes sense.
But the rest?
I have no idea why the USA is involved, and if HRC wins next month, expect it to escalate.
so you'd only expect it to escalate if HRC wins? not say the guy who's said he'd use nukes, and his spokeswoman who said "whats the point of having all these nukes if we don't use them" surely that childish imbecile would know how to deescalate the problem, because he's just a beacon on calm and not blowing things out of proportion
Vaktathi wrote: Yeah, it's a gigantic clusterfeth, as tends to happen with civil wars. There's no neat dividing line between one side and the other, there's multiple sides with groups shifting back and forth and vested interests by some outside powers in each and some that simply want the current situation to stay the way it is forever.
Whats worse is that ultimately, for many outside powers, the outcome is of little or no real value to their actual strategic interests, but they have to act like it is...just because.
Russia I can get - they're protecting a long term ally. Iran and Saudi Arabia fighting each other in a proxy war makes sense.
But the rest?
I have no idea why the USA is involved, and if HRC wins next month, expect it to escalate.
Simple - the current US administration, and probably the next one too, wishes to weaken Russia by removing one of its key allies in the Syrian Government/Regime [delete according to bias].
Vaktathi wrote: Yeah, it's a gigantic clusterfeth, as tends to happen with civil wars. There's no neat dividing line between one side and the other, there's multiple sides with groups shifting back and forth and vested interests by some outside powers in each and some that simply want the current situation to stay the way it is forever.
Whats worse is that ultimately, for many outside powers, the outcome is of little or no real value to their actual strategic interests, but they have to act like it is...just because.
Russia I can get - they're protecting a long term ally. Iran and Saudi Arabia fighting each other in a proxy war makes sense.
But the rest?
I have no idea why the USA is involved, and if HRC wins next month, expect it to escalate.
so you'd only expect it to escalate if HRC wins? not say the guy who's said he'd use nukes, and his spokeswoman who said "whats the point of having all these nukes if we don't use them" surely that childish imbecile would know how to deescalate the problem, because he's just a beacon on calm and not blowing things out of proportion
Trump is full of empty rhetoric, bluster and bs. He's making these outrageous remarks about nukes because he thinks it plays well to certain voters. Don't take him seriously.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/10/02 21:24:30
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: Trump is full of empty rhetoric, bluster and bs. He's making these outrageous remarks about nukes because he thinks it plays well to certain voters. Don't take him seriously.
The guy is total nutball. One cannot be sure what he comes up with next. That's why potential is there...
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: Trump is full of empty rhetoric, bluster and bs. He's making these outrageous remarks about nukes because he thinks it plays well to certain voters. Don't take him seriously.
The guy is total nutball. One cannot be sure what he comes up with next. That's why potential is there...
he's a a blustering bluster of a blustering man.
The power behind the throne is what matters in these situations. Bush was a monkey in a man suit but it was the appointees and hawks who were making sure the button was where ever his grasping human like hands were at the time.
Should Donald become president I don't expect a change in what is happening over in Syria. On the larger stage I would expect Putin to push his buttons a little more. More red lines will be drawn and crossed under Trump than before him I reckon.
Simple - the current US administration, and probably the next one too, wishes to weaken Russia by removing one of its key allies in the Syrian Government/Regime [delete according to bias].
Maybe in the early days.
More likely there was a thought that this would be another beautiful revolution where supportive platitudes from various western governments could be transformed into positive spin and 'didnt we do gud'. The mobile phones would receive messages of support from the white house and outside ten downing street, stout defence against bullets and tanks, chlorine.
Champagne and caviar all round! all over before tea time.
IMO Russia are the only party to look strong in all of this feth up.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/10/03 08:14:05
Mr. Burning wrote: More likely there was a thought that this would be another beautiful revolution where supportive platitudes from various western governments could be transformed into positive spin and 'didnt we do gud'. The mobile phones would receive messages of support from the white house and outside ten downing street, stout defence against bullets and tanks, chlorine.
I'm sorry, I must have missed the first "beautiful" revolution...to which country are you referring to?
Libya: a clusterfeth, now a hopelessly divided lawless anarchy with numerous militias, an ISIS foothold in the country and a lame duck but internationally recognized unity government that lacks influence over large parts of the country.
Egypt: a clusterfeth, now an oppressive military regime after the Islamist revolution was in turn overthrown.
Turkey: a clusterfeth, a failed military coup allowed the oppressive Islamist regime to tighten its grip on power and boost popular support for its Islamist.
Ukraine: a clusterfeth, a bloody overthrow of the corrupt, oligarchic but democratically legitimate government, met with an equally bloody counter uprising, now embroiled in an on-off civil war with numerous foreign powers sticking their noses in whether overtly or covertly.
Nevermind learning from history, our leaders can't even learn from their own recent experience, they keep repeating the same mistakes.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2016/10/03 18:05:23
Mordant 92nd 'Acid Dogs'
The Lost and Damned
Inquisition
