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I'm new to Warhammer gaming, and need my own full-fledged WHFB army. My guy plays dark elves. The armies I am most interested in are Lizardmen, Tomb Kings(although I'm doing Necrons for my first 40K army so I don't know if I would want TK to be my first fantasy army), Skaven, and Vampire Counts. Which do you guys think make the best first fantasy army and could do well against dark elves?

Well, as a fellow Necron AND Tomb King player, I can tell you that aside from similarities in fluff, Tomb Kings are nothing like Necrons as far as play style goes. They're a whole different ball game. But, with Nagash and the Undead Legions out now, you'd get some cool stuff to use. =P

Plus, to answer your question, TK do decently against Dark Elves.

Dark elves are a horrid matchup for TK. Elves outshoot, outfight, and outmagic TK.

Plus they have wacky mechanics that make learning the game a tad more complicated.

I recommend lizards as they're a well rounded army who are easy to learn.

 thedarkavenger wrote:
Dark elves are a horrid matchup for TK. Elves outshoot, outfight, and outmagic TK.

Plus they have wacky mechanics that make learning the game a tad more complicated.

I recommend lizards as they're a well rounded army who are easy to learn.

Or that.

I didn't have quite the same experience though.

Well, I know his army has a lot of dark riders and doomfire warlocks. Obviously I plan on fighting other people too, but I want to get good at killing his first


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 thedarkavenger wrote:
Dark elves are a horrid matchup for TK. Elves outshoot, outfight, and outmagic TK.

Plus they have wacky mechanics that make learning the game a tad more complicated.

I recommend lizards as they're a well rounded army who are easy to learn.

Are there any shooters in Lizardmen? Do I need shooters against Dark Elves? I thought Skinks were shooters, but the range is only like 6' or something.

 pinkbunnies wrote:
Well, I know his army has a lot of dark riders and doomfire warlocks. Obviously I plan on fighting other people too, but I want to get good at killing his first

You're going to be facing an uphill struggle with those two armies. The list you mentioned is one of the top lists in the game right now. And those armies don't really have the tools to deal with them.

And yes. Dark elves have a lot of shooting. In a decent list, everything bar the warlocks and characters will shoot.

 krodarklorr wrote:
Well, as a fellow Necron AND Tomb King player, I can tell you that aside from similarities in fluff, Tomb Kings are nothing like Necrons as far as play style goes. They're a whole different ball game. But, with Nagash and the Undead Legions out now, you'd get some cool stuff to use. =P

Plus, to answer your question, TK do decently against Dark Elves.

I definitely want to do TK at some point. I don't know why I like skeletons/robot skeletons so muh lol.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 thedarkavenger wrote:

 pinkbunnies wrote:
Well, I know his army has a lot of dark riders and doomfire warlocks. Obviously I plan on fighting other people too, but I want to get good at killing his first

You're going to be facing an uphill struggle with those two armies. The list you mentioned is one of the top lists in the game right now. And those armies don't really have the tools to deal with them.

And yes. Dark elves have a lot of shooting. In a decent list, everything bar the warlocks and characters will shoot.

Hmmm....we played a mini game(so I can start learning) with his cold one knights vs my daemonettes.....and my daemonettes kinda totally slaughtered him.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
so which armies do have the tools to deal with them?

 pinkbunnies wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:
Well, as a fellow Necron AND Tomb King player, I can tell you that aside from similarities in fluff, Tomb Kings are nothing like Necrons as far as play style goes. They're a whole different ball game. But, with Nagash and the Undead Legions out now, you'd get some cool stuff to use. =P

Plus, to answer your question, TK do decently against Dark Elves.

I definitely want to do TK at some point. I don't know why I like skeletons/robot skeletons so muh lol.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 thedarkavenger wrote:

 pinkbunnies wrote:
Well, I know his army has a lot of dark riders and doomfire warlocks. Obviously I plan on fighting other people too, but I want to get good at killing his first

You're going to be facing an uphill struggle with those two armies. The list you mentioned is one of the top lists in the game right now. And those armies don't really have the tools to deal with them.

And yes. Dark elves have a lot of shooting. In a decent list, everything bar the warlocks and characters will shoot.

Hmmm....we played a mini game(so I can start learning) with his cold one knights vs my daemonettes.....and my daemonettes kinda totally slaughtered him.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
so which armies do have the tools to deal with them?

I mostly play warriors, empire and demons nowadays. Excluding my dark elves. So I either have skullcrushers, chimerae and trolls, plaguebearers with 3+ regen, or double banishment and hellblasters. All if which are things elves hate.

I've always thought Dwarves do decently well against DE, especially if you go gunline. {Warning: Gunline Dwarves are often considered a "boring" army to play against by your opponent. This largely has to do with how much of their army is shot off of the board before they can get into close combat.}

Runed cannons and stone throwers take care of things like the Cauldron, RBT, and Hydras. Without the Cauldron, Witch Elves die in droves to Stone Throwers, Organ Guns and Crossbow fire. Dark Riders evaporate before any shooting Dwarves have to offer. Even DFW struggle against massed shooting when the lowest S from said shooting is 4. Most DE armor is so light and T values low enough that virtually any shooting from the Dwarf side will inflict casualties, despite only being BS3.

If/when the DE get across the board, the Dwarves are still T4 with at least Heavy Armor and striking back at S5+ with great weapons.

I dunno if Dwarves were something you were considering, but they do decently well against DE, so thought I'd throw it out there.

I've done well with my vampire counts. 3 point zombies show up in numbers so large that they can't be shot to death.
Attached ethereal heroes can charge out of units and take out the chaff with immunity.

Saldiven wrote:
I've always thought Dwarves do decently well against DE, especially if you go gunline. {Warning: Gunline Dwarves are often considered a "boring" army to play against by your opponent. This largely has to do with how much of their army is shot off of the board before they can get into close combat.}

Runed cannons and stone throwers take care of things like the Cauldron, RBT, and Hydras. Without the Cauldron, Witch Elves die in droves to Stone Throwers, Organ Guns and Crossbow fire. Dark Riders evaporate before any shooting Dwarves have to offer. Even DFW struggle against massed shooting when the lowest S from said shooting is 4. Most DE armor is so light and T values low enough that virtually any shooting from the Dwarf side will inflict casualties, despite only being BS3.

If/when the DE get across the board, the Dwarves are still T4 with at least Heavy Armor and striking back at S5+ with great weapons.

I dunno if Dwarves were something you were considering, but they do decently well against DE, so thought I'd throw it out there.

Who says Dark Elves are going to engage dwarves? With my seven war machines that reroll to wound(Well, four war machines and 3 chariots), alongside my Metal Magic, I can happily sit back and shoot you off the board.

 thedarkavenger wrote:

Saldiven wrote:
I've always thought Dwarves do decently well against DE, especially if you go gunline. {Warning: Gunline Dwarves are often considered a "boring" army to play against by your opponent. This largely has to do with how much of their army is shot off of the board before they can get into close combat.}

Runed cannons and stone throwers take care of things like the Cauldron, RBT, and Hydras. Without the Cauldron, Witch Elves die in droves to Stone Throwers, Organ Guns and Crossbow fire. Dark Riders evaporate before any shooting Dwarves have to offer. Even DFW struggle against massed shooting when the lowest S from said shooting is 4. Most DE armor is so light and T values low enough that virtually any shooting from the Dwarf side will inflict casualties, despite only being BS3.

If/when the DE get across the board, the Dwarves are still T4 with at least Heavy Armor and striking back at S5+ with great weapons.

I dunno if Dwarves were something you were considering, but they do decently well against DE, so thought I'd throw it out there.

Who says Dark Elves are going to engage dwarves? With my seven war machines that reroll to wound(Well, four war machines and 3 chariots), alongside my Metal Magic, I can happily sit back and shoot you off the board.

Which is why hordes seem to be the answer. Along with ethereals. Your shooting does either nothing at all (ethereal) or not enough (zombies). And I'd be thrilled to see you show up with a lore of metal wizard...

-Matt

Saldiven wrote:
{Warning: Gunline Dwarves are often considered a "boring" army to play against by your opponent. This largely has to do with how much of their army is shot off of the board before they can get into close combat.}

Gunline dwarves are considered "boring" to play as well. Pick up dice, roll dice, remove models. Opponent has a turn. Pick up dice, roll dice, remove models.

In the end, it boils down to if the Dwarf player rolls well enough to kill the enemy before they reach his lines. One might as well have the Dwarf gunline player roll a d6 before deployment. On a 4-6 he wins, on a 1-3 he looses. About the same result, goes much faster.

VC should be pretty good at facing DE. I haven't tried that matchup, but VC have a high body count and can field high toughness models, both things that DE hate.

The other army that does everything that DE hate is Ogres. High Toughness and fast. Not a good combo for DE.

Another combo that DE hate is tough models with good armor saves; like Warriors of Chaos.

Based on the armies you've listed, I would certainly suggest VC over any of the other options.

 spyguyyoda wrote:
VC should be pretty good at facing DE. I haven't tried that matchup, but VC have a high body count and can field high toughness models, both things that DE hate.

The other army that does everything that DE hate is Ogres. High Toughness and fast. Not a good combo for DE.

Another combo that DE hate is tough models with good armor saves; like Warriors of Chaos.

Based on the armies you've listed, I would certainly suggest VC over any of the other options.

As a DE player, I do fairly well against all of those.

Against VC, I can sit back, and focus on a unit at a time. Since they can't march, they shouldn't really get to my fast cav. I I go for combat, then nothing in the army can hold up against any of the combat options listed in the book beyond a million buffs.

As for Ogres, If it's a shooting army, the number of shots combined with the cauldron mean that Toughness won't really matter. If it's a combat army, well, executioners exist.

Warriors can be a bit of trouble with the prince, if, and only if, the bolt throwers don't work. Executioners beat everything the warriors book throw at them, and all the armour piercing shooting makes warriors cry.


All those matchups used to be terrible for dark elves under the old book, but now that the book's been given warlocks, amazing fast cav, four bolt throwers and an awesome ruling on the cauldron, it doesn't have many bad matchups outside of chaos dwarfs, dwarfs, and wood elves.

I can't see DE's struggling against high toughness models.
They have a high volume of poison attacks available, and great weapons that swing at high initiative.

High armour units I've seen them struggle with, Ironbreakers and Empire knights.

 thedarkavenger wrote:

Against VC, I can sit back, and focus on a unit at a time. Since they can't march, they shouldn't really get to my fast cav. I I go for combat, then nothing in the army can hold up against any of the combat options listed in the book beyond a million buffs.

VC can march. Hex Wraiths are a nightmare for DE, option to vanguard, 16" march, 17" average charge range, ethereal, S5 no save attacks.
Free zombies can be summoned as a line of hard cover for other units.
Decent direct damage (2D6 S4 magic missile, curse of years, and wind of undeath).
If the VC try and go deathstar, they are in trouble, but if they instead spam 3 point models, who return at a stupidly fast rate, they are going to cause problems.
The new Legion army makes this even worse; as the casket is amazing (and being direct damage, doesn't need line of sight).

-Matt

 HawaiiMatt wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:

Against VC, I can sit back, and focus on a unit at a time. Since they can't march, they shouldn't really get to my fast cav. I I go for combat, then nothing in the army can hold up against any of the combat options listed in the book beyond a million buffs.

VC can march. Hex Wraiths are a nightmare for DE, option to vanguard, 16" march, 17" average charge range, ethereal, S5 no save attacks.
Free zombies can be summoned as a line of hard cover for other units.
Decent direct damage (2D6 S4 magic missile, curse of years, and wind of undeath).
If the VC try and go deathstar, they are in trouble, but if they instead spam 3 point models, who return at a stupidly fast rate, they are going to cause problems.
The new Legion army makes this even worse; as the casket is amazing (and being direct damage, doesn't need line of sight).

-Matt

Hex Wraiths are a problem? Sure. Against any of the armies that don't include warlocks, death magic, metal magic, fire magic or dark magic level 1s. AKA NONE OF THEM.

And they can march for one turn, unless they go necrospam. Any decent ranged Dark Elf army WILL be able to obliterate any bunker unit VC can bring.

And remember, any DD VC bring, DE bring twice as much, if not more. If the Elf player brings Morathi, that just becomes infinitely worse odds for the VC player.

Sure, you can bring those zombies back stupidly quickly, but DE take them off even faster. Last game I played, my only shooting was 30 crossbowmen and 4 bolt throwers, and I still manages to kill enough each turn to make the summons unable to recuperate the losses. As well as bolt throwering off a character in the first three turns. After that it was run away from the slow troops. If I was running the fast cav list, it would have been much easier for me.

As for the Casket point, you're relying on the army failing the LD8-10 panics. Which are likely rerollable.

It's like I said, there are 3 bad matchups for the elf book. And I listed them earlier in this thread.

 thedarkavenger wrote:

 HawaiiMatt wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:

Against VC, I can sit back, and focus on a unit at a time. Since they can't march, they shouldn't really get to my fast cav. I I go for combat, then nothing in the army can hold up against any of the combat options listed in the book beyond a million buffs.

VC can march. Hex Wraiths are a nightmare for DE, option to vanguard, 16" march, 17" average charge range, ethereal, S5 no save attacks.
Free zombies can be summoned as a line of hard cover for other units.
Decent direct damage (2D6 S4 magic missile, curse of years, and wind of undeath).
If the VC try and go deathstar, they are in trouble, but if they instead spam 3 point models, who return at a stupidly fast rate, they are going to cause problems.
The new Legion army makes this even worse; as the casket is amazing (and being direct damage, doesn't need line of sight).

-Matt

Hex Wraiths are a problem? Sure. Against any of the armies that don't include warlocks, death magic, metal magic, fire magic or dark magic level 1s. AKA NONE OF THEM.

And they can march for one turn, unless they go necrospam. Any decent ranged Dark Elf army WILL be able to obliterate any bunker unit VC can bring.

And remember, any DD VC bring, DE bring twice as much, if not more. If the Elf player brings Morathi, that just becomes infinitely worse odds for the VC player.

Sure, you can bring those zombies back stupidly quickly, but DE take them off even faster. Last game I played, my only shooting was 30 crossbowmen and 4 bolt throwers, and I still manages to kill enough each turn to make the summons unable to recuperate the losses. As well as bolt throwering off a character in the first three turns. After that it was run away from the slow troops. If I was running the fast cav list, it would have been much easier for me.

As for the Casket point, you're relying on the army failing the LD8-10 panics. Which are likely rerollable.

It's like I said, there are 3 bad matchups for the elf book. And I listed them earlier in this thread.

The Casket doesn't panic, it's a LD test on 3D6. You take a wound with no save for each point failed by. Then on a 3+ it jumps to another target. It's not a lot of wounds, but over the course of a game, it adds up. It also gives you D3 bonus power dice. The bouncing to other units is a problem for gunlines; they tend to cluster up too close.

30 crossbow isn't enough. Firing at range, you're hitting on 5's, wounding on 4+ (with re-rolls how your meta plays). That's a whopping 15 wounds. Yay, you just killed 75 points of zombies. Another 10-11 from the repeaters.
My standard competitive build is 3x50 zombies. It's only 450 points of core and can weather several rounds of that firing.
Hex Wraiths only need to march once, though they could march more than once if they wanted to. After a single magic phase, they're in combat.

 pinkbunnies wrote:
Well, I know his army has a lot of dark riders and doomfire warlocks. Obviously I plan on fighting other people too, but I want to get good at killing his first

Are there any shooters in Lizardmen? Do I need shooters against Dark Elves? I thought Skinks were shooters, but the range is only like 6' or something.

The DE book has answers to most things. So best options depend on how much your DE guy builds around your list. Given that your DE guy plays a lot of fast cav, I'd think about spamming magic missles and shooting.

Lizardmen: Stegadons and Bastilodons give you access to bound spell magic missiles. Skinks put out clouds of low strength shots. Stegs with blowpipes give you some barrages of shots that help compensate for DE maneuverability. Salamanders might also be worth considering, especially if the DE guy fields big blocks as well.

Skaven: Has all kinds of wacky shooting and magic missiles. The question is whether you kill yourself faster than the other guy.

Tomb Kings: Skeleton Archers and light magic provide some decent answers to fast cav. Core Chariots give you some board control options.

Vampire Counts: Screamlists (Cavalry, banshees, etc) can remove fast cav pretty well.

I think lizardmen are probably your most well-rounded option. And they are classic DE foes.




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 thedarkavenger wrote:
So I either have skullcrushers, chimerae and trolls... All if which are things elves hate.

Warriors can be a bit of trouble with the prince, if, and only if, the bolt throwers don't work. Executioners beat everything the warriors book throw at them, and all the armour piercing shooting makes warriors cry.

All those matchups used to be terrible for dark elves under the old book, but now that the book's been given warlocks, amazing fast cav, four bolt throwers and an awesome ruling on the cauldron, it doesn't have many bad matchups outside of chaos dwarfs, dwarfs, and wood elves.

Who says Dark Elves are going to engage dwarves? With my seven war machines that reroll to wound(Well, four war machines and 3 chariots), alongside my Metal Magic, I can happily sit back and shoot you off the board.

ALL OF THE ELVES.

Ask not the elves for advice, because they will tell you both 'yes' and 'no'.
- J.R.R. Tolkien

kooshlord wrote:

 pinkbunnies wrote:
Well, I know his army has a lot of dark riders and doomfire warlocks. Obviously I plan on fighting other people too, but I want to get good at killing his first

Are there any shooters in Lizardmen? Do I need shooters against Dark Elves? I thought Skinks were shooters, but the range is only like 6' or something.

The DE book has answers to most things. So best options depend on how much your DE guy builds around your list. Given that your DE guy plays a lot of fast cav, I'd think about spamming magic missles and shooting.

Lizardmen: Stegadons and Bastilodons give you access to bound spell magic missiles. Skinks put out clouds of low strength shots. Stegs with blowpipes give you some barrages of shots that help compensate for DE maneuverability. Salamanders might also be worth considering, especially if the DE guy fields big blocks as well.

Skaven: Has all kinds of wacky shooting and magic missiles. The question is whether you kill yourself faster than the other guy.

Tomb Kings: Skeleton Archers and light magic provide some decent answers to fast cav. Core Chariots give you some board control options.

Vampire Counts: Screamlists (Cavalry, banshees, etc) can remove fast cav pretty well.

I think lizardmen are probably your most well-rounded option. And they are classic DE foes.

well, I've looked at Lizardmen, and some of my initial thinking was a Slann Mage-Priest with Becalming Cogitation, Wandering Deliberations, Reservoir of Eldritch Energy, and Harmonic Convergence. With like 20 Temple Guard, make him BSB with Standard of Discipline & can still use Inspiring Presence, and lastly adding on Cube of Darkness, Obsidian Lodestone(I believe TG get the resistance also and combines for Slann with his ward save), Shrieking Blade(gives him and TG fear), and Channeling Staff.
Like 2 big blocks of Saurus Warriors, and a unit of Skink Skirmishers.
Maybe it could be fun to put a Scar-Vet on a Carnosaur with Swiftstride, with Piranha Blade.
And a skink priest on Ancient Steg with Engine? Or a skink priest with the Cloak of Feathers? Since they can be like casting proxies for the Mage-Priest?

I'm not sure.

But, I told him about how I would do the Mage-Priest, and he said it sounded "horrifying", and my guy, who dislikes using characters, starting looking at the DE characters so he could kill the Mage-Priest!





Automatically Appended Next Post:

 HawaiiMatt wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:

Against VC, I can sit back, and focus on a unit at a time. Since they can't march, they shouldn't really get to my fast cav. I I go for combat, then nothing in the army can hold up against any of the combat options listed in the book beyond a million buffs.

VC can march. Hex Wraiths are a nightmare for DE, option to vanguard, 16" march, 17" average charge range, ethereal, S5 no save attacks.
Free zombies can be summoned as a line of hard cover for other units.
Decent direct damage (2D6 S4 magic missile, curse of years, and wind of undeath).
If the VC try and go deathstar, they are in trouble, but if they instead spam 3 point models, who return at a stupidly fast rate, they are going to cause problems.
The new Legion army makes this even worse; as the casket is amazing (and being direct damage, doesn't need line of sight).

-Matt

Yeah, I do really want to look at the VC too.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 thedarkavenger wrote:

All those matchups used to be terrible for dark elves under the old book, but now that the book's been given warlocks, amazing fast cav, four bolt throwers and an awesome ruling on the cauldron, it doesn't have many bad matchups outside of chaos dwarfs, dwarfs, and wood elves.

Wood elves? How so?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
To a certain extent, his DE army ls in flux, partially because after Dark Eldar codex comes out, new stuff for Dark Elves is coming out or something like that. But it looks like he has 2 units of 10 cold one knights, a bunch of black guard, like 20 executioners, repeater bolt throwers, 10 doomfire warlocks, 2 units of 10 dark riders, and 2 units of 15 dark shards(?)

2 Masters(1 on Manticore) a lvl 2 sorceress hero, a lvl 4 supreme sorceress lord.

Basically, anything that is shooting-intensive gives DE fits. So Wood Elves (highly mobile BS4+ shooting), and Dwarves (castled up T4 shooting) are the main uphill battles DE have to deal with.

VC and TK can be annoying, but Witches go through Zombies and Skellies like a chainsaw through butter. It's not necessarily an easy fight, but it is (at least) an even fight. It will depend heavily on the skills of the players as to who wins.

Ogre speed and shock power is troublesome, yes. But at low Initiative, Ogre units are often decimated before they even get to swing. Executioners - especially when Frenzied - smash ogres. Even Witches are a credible threat... and heaven help you if Withering or Soulblight or Mindrazor have gone off.

 pinkbunnies wrote:

To a certain extent, his DE army ls in flux, partially because after Dark Eldar codex comes out, new stuff for Dark Elves is coming out or something like that. But it looks like he has 2 units of 10 cold one knights, a bunch of black guard, like 20 executioners, repeater bolt throwers, 10 doomfire warlocks, 2 units of 10 dark riders, and 2 units of 15 dark shards(?)

2 Masters(1 on Manticore) a lvl 2 sorceress hero, a lvl 4 supreme sorceress lord.

Critically, it doesn't look like he's got:
- A cauldron
- Witch Elves
- An executioner horde (30+)
The net effect being he doesn't get rerolls on all to-wound rolls, nor having army-wide poison.

I would not put a skink on a steg, it limits his mobility and puts too many eggs in one basket. I would be wary of spending too much on toys for the Slaan, at the expense of the rest of your army. Since he's got a lot of cav, I would think about throwing some infantry Saurus heros with great weapons into your blocks. I'd also think about light magic for the slaan, as it helps vs DE ASF and can reduce their accuracy.

Good luck!

If you want to go lizards, consider the old reliable 515 slann.

Slann, BSB, Warbanner.
Obsidian Amulet, Crown of Command.
Higher State of Consciousness, Wander Deliberations.

Totally immune to non-magical attacks.
2+ ward vs spells, 4+ ward vs everything else.
Stubborn 9 with +2 combat res.
All the sig spells, which means you can miasma on a 5+ to smoke and mirrors out of a fight if you need to.

It gives you tremendous flexibility, you can grab a tie up a monster (while winning combat by 2 every round) and still cast spells (via skink priest). You can charge into a flank of an existing combat for +3 combat res.
You can swap places with a saurus on foot to suddenly put the enemy in combat with a real threat.

Usually I find my opponent initially tries to kill him (a mistake) and the wasted effort helps keep the rest of the army alive.

kooshlord wrote:

 pinkbunnies wrote:

To a certain extent, his DE army ls in flux, partially because after Dark Eldar codex comes out, new stuff for Dark Elves is coming out or something like that. But it looks like he has 2 units of 10 cold one knights, a bunch of black guard, like 20 executioners, repeater bolt throwers, 10 doomfire warlocks, 2 units of 10 dark riders, and 2 units of 15 dark shards(?)

2 Masters(1 on Manticore) a lvl 2 sorceress hero, a lvl 4 supreme sorceress lord.

Critically, it doesn't look like he's got:
- A cauldron
- Witch Elves
- An executioner horde (30+)
The net effect being he doesn't get rerolls on all to-wound rolls, nor having army-wide poison.

I would not put a skink on a steg, it limits his mobility and puts too many eggs in one basket. I would be wary of spending too much on toys for the Slaan, at the expense of the rest of your army. Since he's got a lot of cav, I would think about throwing some infantry Saurus heros with great weapons into your blocks. I'd also think about light magic for the slaan, as it helps vs DE ASF and can reduce their accuracy.

Good luck!

I don't use any of those. And I regularly table witch elf infantry armies. They're literally the worst choice in the book. And that includes the medusa.

 thedarkavenger wrote:

kooshlord wrote:

 pinkbunnies wrote:

To a certain extent, his DE army ls in flux, partially because after Dark Eldar codex comes out, new stuff for Dark Elves is coming out or something like that. But it looks like he has 2 units of 10 cold one knights, a bunch of black guard, like 20 executioners, repeater bolt throwers, 10 doomfire warlocks, 2 units of 10 dark riders, and 2 units of 15 dark shards(?)

2 Masters(1 on Manticore) a lvl 2 sorceress hero, a lvl 4 supreme sorceress lord.

Critically, it doesn't look like he's got:
- A cauldron
- Witch Elves
- An executioner horde (30+)
The net effect being he doesn't get rerolls on all to-wound rolls, nor having army-wide poison.

I would not put a skink on a steg, it limits his mobility and puts too many eggs in one basket. I would be wary of spending too much on toys for the Slaan, at the expense of the rest of your army. Since he's got a lot of cav, I would think about throwing some infantry Saurus heros with great weapons into your blocks. I'd also think about light magic for the slaan, as it helps vs DE ASF and can reduce their accuracy.

Good luck!

I don't use any of those. And I regularly table witch elf infantry armies. They're literally the worst choice in the book. And that includes the medusa.

What's the latest incarnation of DE for ya? A few (awesome) DE builds that I attribute to you are:
1) Cauldron+all the shooting
2) Total Fast Cav with warlock deathstar?
3) Execstar + fastcav

Relating back to PinkBunnies, it looks your DE guy has no cauldron for shooting/magic/melee rerolls, no execstar, and things on the table other than fastcav. Which means that making your army shooty is viable, and combat blocks are likely to actually see combat.


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No Witch Elves is relevant because I've done nasty things to Lizardmen armies with disposable 10 strong witch elf units.

First two are the most effective builds in the book.

I've done pretty well with combined arms DE. 30 Witches (no Cauldron), 30 Executioners w/ Brewhag, two tirestrips (10 Witches with musicians), and a nice cloud of chaff units - Dark Riders, Warlocks, Harpies, Shades, single Medusae, and occasionally even Cold One Knights/Chariots.

 Vulcan wrote:
I've done pretty well with combined arms DE. 30 Witches (no Cauldron), 30 Executioners w/ Brewhag, two tirestrips (10 Witches with musicians), and a nice cloud of chaff units - Dark Riders, Warlocks, Harpies, Shades, single Medusae, and occasionally even Cold One Knights/Chariots.

Those kind of lists aren't bad. Apart from the witches. Let's save my opinions for another time though. I said that the best lists are the cauldron bowlines and the fast cav lists.

Well, I love the Lizardmen & their dinosaurs, but Wood Elves might be nice since there seems to be females you can have in your army. I don't have access to their most recent codex though, so I'm not sure how I would want to go about creating a Wood Elves army.