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I am going to be entering in the armies on parade at my local gw with a no mans land board for my krieg. But I am having some trouble finding dead tree models that arent in O scale for toy trains. My first question is does O scale work with gw miniatures? I am guessing not but who knows, and secondly does anyone know of a scale that would work?
They do dead trees, tree stumps (both cut and natural causes...), as well as some excellent metal tree armatures that will look the part of being dead if you don't bother to apply foliage.
In terms of not O-Scale...that is the size you will want, at a minimum. Smaller sizes will look more like shrubbery. Larger scales will be 12+ tall. O-Scale model railroad trees are about perfect for the 25-35mm range of miniatures. They tend to be a bit anemic looking next to the chibi GW figures - but they are thick enough that it at least looks like the figure might be able to get some cover behind it without looking comical.
They do dead trees, tree stumps (both cut and natural causes...), as well as some excellent metal tree armatures that will look the part of being dead if you don't bother to apply foliage.
In terms of not O-Scale...that is the size you will want, at a minimum. Smaller sizes will look more like shrubbery. Larger scales will be 12+ tall. O-Scale model railroad trees are about perfect for the 25-35mm range of miniatures. They tend to be a bit anemic looking next to the chibi GW figures - but they are thick enough that it at least looks like the figure might be able to get some cover behind it without looking comical.
Thanks man! Those were the ones I was looking at but I remember having an O scale train set as a kid and it seemed kinda small back then so I didnt really know if it'd be okay
I'd have to go measure to be certain - but the trees in the TK26 kit are over 6" tall and are about 1/2" thick at the base of the trunk. The next size up for commonly available materials are around 12" tall and about 1" at the base of the trunk. 12" is pretty tall for miniatures - they also start to get costly fast in those larger scales.
The dead trees in the TK22 are about half that size. Comparable to what you see in a lot of WWI movies in the no-mans land.
Another thing to keep an eye out for, especially this time of year, are Halloween decorations. Lots of cheap decorations start to get on the shelves, and people now do shelf displays with haunted houses, graveyards and the like. You can often get somewhat compressed scale "creepy" trees for cheap from craft stores like Hobby Lobby and Michaels.
Another thing to keep an eye out for, especially this time of year, are Halloween decorations. Lots of cheap decorations start to get on the shelves, and people now do shelf displays with haunted houses, graveyards and the like. You can often get somewhat compressed scale "creepy" trees for cheap from craft stores like Hobby Lobby and Michaels.
Another decent and fast solution is to make a frame from twisting garden wire/paperclips together and wrapping it in wrinkled and crumpled masking take. Prime and paint and you're sorted.
Grapes. Cut up the stems, bake them in the oven for an hour or three at 200-300 degrees, then spray the stems or just add some matte clear coat. The stuff inside will eventually decay, but it should last a few weeks if dried and painted. Plus you get to eat some grapes.
I saw somewhere a tutorial on making trees from twisting pipes cleaners together and using glue to make it hard and clumpy instead of fuzzy. I can't seem to find it it was a long time ago. Something to look into I suppose. If I happen upon it I'll post it.
Sammoth wrote: Another idea get some branches from outside. Let them dry out and paint them etc.
I second this idea.
Nothing beats the real thing in my opinion.
d-usa wrote: "When the Internet sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending posters that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing strawmen. They're bringing spam. They're trolls. And some, I assume, are good people."
Sammoth wrote: Another idea get some branches from outside. Let them dry out and paint them etc.
I second this idea.
Nothing beats the real thing in my opinion.
Might just be me - but branches from outside tend to look like branches...not trees.
The structure is different from how a real tree grows up, spreads out and forms itself. From the root flare at the collar to the crotches at your scaffold branches and even the textures of the bark - you just don't get the same look from branches.
Some woody weeds work well, as do various shrubs (this time of the year is a pretty good time to hit up nurseries as you can often get small trees and shrubs that didn't survive the summer in pots for sale...rinse off the dirt and dry them out...they really look like trees, because they have the whole structure).
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Snrub wrote: There are also the GWCitadel Woods. More expensive then the woodlandscenics, but the right scale and completely "legal" for use in a GW store.
Didn't figure that would be an issue...but wouldn't be surprised if it were. Pretty sure I would end up laughing in their face if a GW store person told me my terrain wasn't legal because it wasn't GW terrain though.
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RAWRAIrobblerobble wrote: Grapes. Cut up the stems, bake them in the oven for an hour or three at 200-300 degrees, then spray the stems or just add some matte clear coat. The stuff inside will eventually decay, but it should last a few weeks if dried and painted. Plus you get to eat some grapes.
SavageBugle wrote: I saw somewhere a tutorial on making trees from twisting pipes cleaners together and using glue to make it hard and clumpy instead of fuzzy. I can't seem to find it it was a long time ago. Something to look into I suppose. If I happen upon it I'll post it.
Yep, if you want to build them yourself, there are more options. Grape stems tend to have a lot of soft matter in them, so they will shrink a lot as they dry and the little branches become brittle. You can replace that with polymers to some extent (dry out - then dip in a bucket of acrylic or polyurethane varnish. Lots of weeds, as I mentioned make for good trunks - but they normally lack the branch structure needed to look like trees. You end up having to build those out of wire. You also have some of the natural tree kits that use materials like tumble weed - but those dry extremely delicate and are not well suited for gaming.
Building up an armature of wire isn't too hard. I used to do that a lot, starting with something like 0 or 00 gauge main wire for my initial work. Thick copper strands that added bulk without much work. Weave in smaller gauge wire as you work your way up the tree to taper the trunk and add branches. Once the armature was done you can coat with putty, spackle or plaster cloth. Another option is to smother it in flux and hit it with a torch to fill in the wire with solder (makes a rock solid tree that even the most ham fisted of gamers will be hard pressed to damage).
The time involved and all that - those woodland scenic metal trees are hard to beat though.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/09/14 05:09:10
Sammoth wrote: Another idea get some branches from outside. Let them dry out and paint them etc.
I second this idea.
Nothing beats the real thing in my opinion.
Might just be me - but branches from outside tend to look like branches...not trees.
The structure is different from how a real tree grows up, spreads out and forms itself. From the root flare at the collar to the crotches at your scaffold branches and even the textures of the bark - you just don't get the same look from branches.
Some woody weeds work well, as do various shrubs (this time of the year is a pretty good time to hit up nurseries as you can often get small trees and shrubs that didn't survive the summer in pots for sale...rinse off the dirt and dry them out...they really look like trees, because they have the whole structure).
That's because you can't just walk outside and grab the first random stick you find. Plenty of painters use real wood and achieve pretty damn convincing results (mostly because they also paint it, which is key to making it look "right"). As a matter of fact, James Wappel has recently posted quite a few models using read wood. The guys at Massive Voodoo do it a lot as well.
But to each their own.
d-usa wrote: "When the Internet sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending posters that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing strawmen. They're bringing spam. They're trolls. And some, I assume, are good people."
I grew up in the northern US, and spent a good 15 years felling trees, cutting firewood and otherwise being in very close contact with wood.
Sticks still look like sticks - it could be a simple silhouette with no color to get in the way and it still looks like a stick.
Some sticks look better than others (grapevine, manzinita root, Harry Lauder's Walking stick...) but they still lack the structure and form.
To each there own, of course - but I can honestly say I haven't seen any done using sticks and branches that don't look like sticks and branches as opposed to trees.
Aside from actual branches, I find natural roots to work better, especially with wood trees. But getting them is a lot harder. The roots usually have smaller, more intricate "branches" compared to most branches and twigs.
A lot of branches and twigs would work well, but you have to seach for them really hard. At least that is how it goes in my area, and I leave beside a freaking forest for crying out loud.
Most of the time I just use copper wires, then build them up with a combination of putty and toilet paper + glue. Especially good with bigger trees, and less fragile than using actual branches/roots.
That is why you have to be selective if you use natural wood. Just sticking a stick from outside on a base isn't going to cut it. To sell the effect, more work is needed but the natural wood is used as a starting point, like this. The final product looks like this:
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/14 07:13:56
d-usa wrote: "When the Internet sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending posters that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing strawmen. They're bringing spam. They're trolls. And some, I assume, are good people."
No - that is getting more to a tree, with sculpting the roots. That is a good bit more work, at which point the trunk portion becomes less focal to the overall object. In many ways it is just as difficult as the PVC pipe for the trunk, as the purpose of the stick is really just to add bulk...much like the pipe is to add bulk.
The previous link from him it was a straight stick stuck into the ground. Didn't look natural at all. The crotches of the branches also don't look like the crotch at a scaffold branch, but one of the secondary or tertiary lateral branches.
This one though doesn't have that issue - because it has no branches to distract from it.
Sean_OBrien wrote: No - that is getting more to a tree, with sculpting the roots. That is a good bit more work, at which point the trunk portion becomes less focal to the overall object. In many ways it is just as difficult as the PVC pipe for the trunk, as the purpose of the stick is really just to add bulk...much like the pipe is to add bulk.
The previous link from him it was a straight stick stuck into the ground. Didn't look natural at all. The crotches of the branches also don't look like the crotch at a scaffold branch, but one of the secondary or tertiary lateral branches.
This one though doesn't have that issue - because it has no branches to distract from it.
Okay...I get it, you don't like using real wood because of you think they always looks wrong based your experience with chopping wood growing up and you think Woodland Scenics armatures are the best option.
The OP asked for ways to make dead trees and that is what is being offered. Waxing intellectual over twigs isn't necessary.
Real wood, Woodland Scenics trees, and homemade wire armatures are all equally valid options. The only thing that matters is the modeling skill of the OP and how much time and money he is willing to invest.
d-usa wrote: "When the Internet sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending posters that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing strawmen. They're bringing spam. They're trolls. And some, I assume, are good people."
So this is what I mean. Stop where you will have add foliage. This is good for dead, thin trees. Not for thick ones. Also the roots are more fragile than using wire, but they're easier to make and they look naturally... natural.
