Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So I am confused. The supposed CC nightmares that are the Eversor, so dangerous and tuned up that they are kept in suspended animation, can't even handle a Space Marine strike squad?

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Drakan_Vangorich

How many marines were there? The fluff on the Eversor makes it seem apparent that 100 of them should have annihilated hundreds of marines. What gives? The vagaries of the shear uberness of various imperial factions and their members?

A Strike Force is simply a name given to anything that isn't already a recognised formation: Squad, Battle/Reserve/Veteran/Scout Company or full Chapter. For all we know it could have been a force of 8 Companies across the 3 chapters, including Captains, Veterans and Terminators. Or it could have been a couple squads and a Predator. We just don't know. Although the scale of the danger leads me to believe it was more likely a larger force equating to half a Chapter in strength, in which case that is an impressive feat. Sure, a 5:1 kill ratio isn't what you want on COD gaming but in an actual warzone against Space Marines, 5:1 ratio is pretty spectacular.

well they don't tell us how many marines where in the strike force. It's possiable that the strike force consisted of 3000 Marines with supporting elements of the Imperial guard etc.

Some Space Marines may have been in Terminator armour and we have no idea if vehicles could be used. The Space Marines may have had intel on the building.

The fact that they were all Eversor assassins is suspicious as well. It suggests to me that the other assassins may not have been responding to the Grand Masters orders.

I'm also unsure of the protection any armour they wear confers and a successful hit from a bolter would cripple them regardless of their drugs and implants. Conversely, their ranged weaponry is not necessarily that effective against power armour (dependent on the bolter rounds they are using).

It was a strike force drawn from three different chapters, meaning that there were at least three Space Marines.

Any Marine fanboy can tell you that three Space Marines can take on anything in the galaxy.

That said, the Eversors are kept in suspended animation not because of their prowess, but because of their uncontrollability.

Ultimately, this fluff just exists to show how the owsums Marines are again.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
It was a strike force drawn from three different chapters, meaning that there were at least three Space Marines.

Any Marine fanboy can tell you that three Space Marines can take on anything in the galaxy.

That said, the Eversors are kept in suspended animation not because of their prowess, but because of their uncontrollability.

Ultimately, this fluff just exists to show how the owsums Marines are again.

I'm pretty sure the strike force almost got slaughtered down to the last man...

Not really an example of space marine awesomeness if you ask me.

One Marine survived.

Eversors seem to just be weaker Space Marines. Faster maybe, but then, so are Guardians.

Even then, the Marines were almost killed to a man.

Really? I have always though the Eversor to be the most efficient killing machine of the Imperium. At least that’s how their fluff used to portray them.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
It was a strike force drawn from three different chapters, meaning that there were at least three Space Marines.

Any Marine fanboy can tell you that three Space Marines can take on anything in the galaxy.

That said, the Eversors are kept in suspended animation not because of their prowess, but because of their uncontrollability.

Ultimately, this fluff just exists to show how the owsums Marines are again.

Really, this is the end of the thread. Too true on all points!

But in the interest of fun, lets pretend there is still a discussion to be had.

Eversor, and all of the assassins really, are a far more time intensive investment than normal marines and also very rare. The fluff definitely makes it apparent that they are far and away superior to marines in straight combat.

I was just wondering what the point of that particular piece of fluff was. I just figure that 100 eversor is a ridiculous number and would probably butcher a ridiculous number of marines. The lone survivor thing is stupid though.

At least they weren't slaughtered to the last man like the Elysians in every battle ever.1 survivor>0 survivors.

Eversor are pretty boss but so are Marines.

They also have advantages of fighting with squad tactics whereas the Eversors fight like a living tide. Trying to swarm the Marines, they'd do as much damage to each other in their frenzy as the enemy, while the Marines set up killzones. There's a reason you stay very far away from an unleashed Eversor.

 Ashiraya wrote:
Eversor are pretty boss but so are Marines.

They also have advantages of fighting with squad tactics whereas the Eversors fight like a living tide. Trying to swarm the Marines, they'd do as much damage to each other in their frenzy as the enemy, while the Marines set up killzones. There's a reason you stay very far away from an unleashed Eversor.

Which is why they are usually sent in solo.

If the need for multiple eversor is thrown in, that's because you want to hope their blender/explosions take them out to a man in a desperate manner, typically this is reserved for things like Horus or Primarchs.

Assassin temples, at least in all the kung-fu movies I've ever seen, are pretty big, open spaces. That's a lot of ground for the Eversors to cover while under sustained bolter fire from a Marine Strike Team.

"Realistically" speaking, a couple of guys with Heavy Bolters, two guys with Stormbolters and a couple guys with flamers could cut the Eversors down like wheat before a scythe... weapons of that type with overlapping fields of fire and dedicated kill-zones would be brutally punishing to advance into.

... that only 1 Marine survives speaks volumes about the Eversor.

 Psienesis wrote:
Assassin temples, at least in all the kung-fu movies I've ever seen, are pretty big, open spaces. That's a lot of ground for the Eversors to cover while under sustained bolter fire from a Marine Strike Team.

"Realistically" speaking, a couple of guys with Heavy Bolters, two guys with Stormbolters and a couple guys with flamers could cut the Eversors down like wheat before a scythe... weapons of that type with overlapping fields of fire and dedicated kill-zones would be brutally punishing to advance into.

... that only 1 Marine survives speaks volumes about the Eversor.

To be fair, a striketeam can be anything between 5 or 500 Marines for all we know.

We just lack the data to make an assessment here.

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
Assassin temples, at least in all the kung-fu movies I've ever seen, are pretty big, open spaces. That's a lot of ground for the Eversors to cover while under sustained bolter fire from a Marine Strike Team.

"Realistically" speaking, a couple of guys with Heavy Bolters, two guys with Stormbolters and a couple guys with flamers could cut the Eversors down like wheat before a scythe... weapons of that type with overlapping fields of fire and dedicated kill-zones would be brutally punishing to advance into.

... that only 1 Marine survives speaks volumes about the Eversor.

To be fair, a striketeam can be anything between 5 or 500 Marines for all we know.

We just lack the data to make an assessment here.

I object, it was clearly five million.

 Wyzilla wrote:

I object, it was clearly five.

Yeah, I agree.

 Deadshot wrote:
A Strike Force is simply a name given to anything that isn't already a recognised formation: Squad, Battle/Reserve/Veteran/Scout Company or full Chapter. For all we know it could have been a force of 8 Companies across the 3 chapters, including Captains, Veterans and Terminators. Or it could have been a couple squads and a Predator. We just don't know. Although the scale of the danger leads me to believe it was more likely a larger force equating to half a Chapter in strength, in which case that is an impressive feat. Sure, a 5:1 kill ratio isn't what you want on COD gaming but in an actual warzone against Space Marines, 5:1 ratio is pretty spectacular.

not to mention
"A sole Space Marine survived to reach Vangorich"


so it wasnt exactly "hur durr marines wade through it cause SPEHHS MARINES"


considering the strike force was made up with the intent of protecting something on terra, the heart of the imperium, the strike force could (and probably was) in the 1000's and had CAD elements like heavy bolters, deads and so on.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
now where is my damn data slate that lets me feild 100 evorsors?

You have to remember that Assassins are Assassins. They're not soldiers.

They aren't meant to fight in a pitched battle. They're meant for infiltration and stealth. Both of which were completely negated in the assault on the Eversor temple.

The fact they were able to wipe out all but one marine is extremely impressive.

 Grey Templar wrote:
You have to remember that Assassins are Assassins. They're not soldiers.

They aren't meant to fight in a pitched battle. They're meant for infiltration and stealth. Both of which were completely negated in the assault on the Eversor temple.

This. Eversors fight like frenzied lawnmowers. Taking a hundred Eversors and throwing them all at the Marines...

The carnage they would cause in their own horde would be significant.

The fact they were able to wipe out all but one marine is extremely impressive.

Depends on how many there were.

the one surviving marine was really the last assassin.

A callidus.

Who was in turn an Alpha Legionairre.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Who was in turn an Alpha Legionairre.

Who was in turn a bad guy from scooby doo.

.... sorry, last OT post from me.

 easysauce wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:
A Strike Force is simply a name given to anything that isn't already a recognised formation: Squad, Battle/Reserve/Veteran/Scout Company or full Chapter. For all we know it could have been a force of 8 Companies across the 3 chapters, including Captains, Veterans and Terminators. Or it could have been a couple squads and a Predator. We just don't know. Although the scale of the danger leads me to believe it was more likely a larger force equating to half a Chapter in strength, in which case that is an impressive feat. Sure, a 5:1 kill ratio isn't what you want on COD gaming but in an actual warzone against Space Marines, 5:1 ratio is pretty spectacular.

not to mention
"A sole Space Marine survived to reach Vangorich"


so it wasnt exactly "hur durr marines wade through it cause SPEHHS MARINES"


considering the strike force was made up with the intent of protecting something on terra, the heart of the imperium, the strike force could (and probably was) in the 1000's and had CAD elements like heavy bolters, deads and so on.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
now where is my damn data slate that lets me feild 100 evorsors?

What's your point, and how is it different from mine?

 Grey Templar wrote:
You have to remember that Assassins are Assassins. They're not soldiers.

They aren't meant to fight in a pitched battle. They're meant for infiltration and stealth. Both of which were completely negated in the assault on the Eversor temple.

The fact they were able to wipe out all but one marine is extremely impressive.

Are Eversors intended for stealth? I thought they send in Eversors when they want a job done, and done as bloody and grizzly, leaving as big a red stain and as many body parts up to the target, as possible. They're held back for when you want your enemies to know that the Imperium means business. They're the Bezerkers of the assassins, quiet and stealthy isn't the way they get things done.

 Pilau Rice wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
You have to remember that Assassins are Assassins. They're not soldiers.

They aren't meant to fight in a pitched battle. They're meant for infiltration and stealth. Both of which were completely negated in the assault on the Eversor temple.

The fact they were able to wipe out all but one marine is extremely impressive.

Are Eversors intended for stealth? I thought they send in Eversors when they want a job done, and done as bloody and grizzly, leaving as big a red stain and as many body parts up to the target, as possible. They're held back for when you want your enemies to know that the Imperium means business. They're the Bezerkers of the assassins, quiet and stealthy isn't the way they get things done.

Which, again, works against them. They are indiscriminate killing machines. It is not useful in an open battle against disciplined and tactical firing lines.

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Pilau Rice wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
You have to remember that Assassins are Assassins. They're not soldiers.

They aren't meant to fight in a pitched battle. They're meant for infiltration and stealth. Both of which were completely negated in the assault on the Eversor temple.

The fact they were able to wipe out all but one marine is extremely impressive.

Are Eversors intended for stealth? I thought they send in Eversors when they want a job done, and done as bloody and grizzly, leaving as big a red stain and as many body parts up to the target, as possible. They're held back for when you want your enemies to know that the Imperium means business. They're the Bezerkers of the assassins, quiet and stealthy isn't the way they get things done.

Which, again, works against them. They are indiscriminate killing machines. It is not useful in an open battle against disciplined and tactical firing lines.

I wasn't disagreeing with that point, just the stealth remark.

It all depends on how the Eversors were released into the fray, if it was a last ditch attempt at protecting the Temple then sure, if they were awakened without any information fed to them then we would have a situation like The Garantine, where they go nuts and kill everything. If any form of plan had been made by the Grand Master then some Instruction to work as some form of a coherent force could have been formulated and actioned by the Eversors. Still though, they aren't soldiers in that regard, but not killing each other would be enough.

We have no idea of how it happened, what the temple defences were, how many Astartes are in a Strike Team, how many of the Eversors were actually killed etc etc

It would make a good book come to think of it, get Rob Sanders to do it. He seems to have a grasp on how Imperial Fists and their successors should be portrayed.

Eversors are for when you have a blank check on casualties. That being said, I can see a fairly good number of marines being sent in, perhaps even a company from each chapter. Remember, marines aren't all that cheap, and a chapter losing even a company is a fairly extreme set back for the short term, especially if it is not one of the reserves.

On a side note, anyone else recall an old bit of fluff on an Eversor Clade or even the Main Temple losing power and going into lockdown with the entire staff trapped inside as the pods turn off, releasing a fair number of the Eversors? Trying to find it now, since it is driving me crazy...

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Who was in turn an Alpha Legionairre.

Who was in turn a bad guy from scooby doo.

.... sorry, last OT post from me.

Who was, in turn, an Ork Kommando wearing a sign that said "spess muhreen" on it as a mask.

Eversors are still meant to be inserted stealthily and then unleashed. An element of surprise is needed for them to have full effect.