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After any tips really. I want to get Space Hulk painted up by a commission painter, for two reasons really, I have so so many guardsmen to paint, and second I want a nice stand alone set well painted.

So far I've set a budget and have whittled the list down to 2 guys. My criteria I set was; within budget, they had to have a webpage, an example of the models would be helpful, time scale and UK only.

These 2 both have very different styles, one is very artistic, the other has a very clean precise style (I'm edging towards this one), but is new to commission and hasn't done much red.

I'm also a little nervous about getting ripped off with the models and money going missing...

So my question, any top tips for picking a painter and more importantly how can you protect yourself?

Thanks

Awaken Realms, aka medows,
check out his Facebook page, Homepage and YouTube tutorials.
he does great stuff and everytime i ask him how he has done some effect he responds, even if i never bought a mini from him.

Too cheap is unrealistic. Remember that.

Don't pay in full up front - a deposit is ok.

Agree the spec. Don't expect competition paintwork if you're not paying for it. Don't accept amateurish work that doesn't match up with examples of the standard you are paying for.

A reasonable (in a competitive market) budget is not less than around £750 for decent tabletop level work = 12 Teminators, 22 Stealers, few ancilliary items and the door bases. If you're being quoted less than this by a UK painter you need to ask why he's spending less than 3 hours per mini (going on a below minimum wage rate). Trust me, the terminators take a lot more than 3 hours to paint up well.

Those that quote under their time are almost always amateurs, unreliable, or scammers of some sort.

If you want a 'top' painter, be prepared to pay for it. You don't develop the skills without being aware of the time involved and what it's worth to you. They'll also have developed a considerable online portfolio with decent photographs, have an established web and forum presence, few or no reported problems on those forums and generally be easy enough to contact.

Awaken Realms (Polish, I believe?) certainly seems to tick all the boxes. There are quite a few European services that are perfectly reliable, and these are often better value due to a slightly lower cost of living over there.

Thank you for the write up.

The prices I've been quoted run from £30! To alot around the £200 mark to a couple at £600+

The £600+ mark was fantastic work but out my budget. The 2 in the running are about the 200 mark buct minus any assembly, but had said this is a secondary job and as such this could take a month rather than a week quoted at the higher end. Both have a fb presence with there own page.

One has been difficult to get hold of the other replies to messages usually within an hour.

Does things like requesting an invoice help?

Depends. Invoices can be helpful for the business when doing their returns, but a lot of places don't declare the income from commission work as they're doing it in spare time.

The main thing is making sure that both parties are aware of what's to be done, for what budget, when payment will be made, and that both are contactable easily.

Thank you, I really appreciate your input.

Its just the cut and run I'm worried about as it the first time I've sent something away.

ids1984 wrote:
Thank you, I really appreciate your input.

Its just the cut and run I'm worried about as it the first time I've sent something away.

If you use a studio or painter that has a decent online presence, worrying about being scammed shouldn't be a top priority.

I saw one of your earlier posts saying that one place gave you a turn around time of only a week? In my opinion, that seems kind of unrealistic. Then again, it could be a "studio" with multiple painters, but even then I'd still have a hard time believing that you would get 34 well painted miniatures in that short of time.

Think that was possibly a post on a fb forum? But yeah about a week doing it full time.

Even though both are a studio, I guess I'm just a suspicious kinda guy!

So the one I'm looking to go with is Tomb Studio, the key points (pos and neg) are:

Only recently started commission painting.
Has no examples of BA but has got a model which he is painting up as an example and has been sending me pictures.
The SW on his site are to a standard I'm happy with for the price.
Within my budget.
Responds quickly to my questions.
Has been open to my suggestions while making his own.

Be wary of low quote, pay-up-front scams.

You'll find most folks charging appropriately (I estimate £750+ for decent work) will charge a deposit, with the remainder due on completion. It's then in their interest to get it done to your satisfaction.

I did a quick google of Tomb Studio (and tomb studio miniature painting). Nada. That rings bells, mate.

Thank you, again all input is appreciated.

Ah, found his Facebook page. Very new, so not likely to be showing on Google just yet. Work looks good, but there should be some contact details rather than just the page.

Sorry I should of pointed that out.

He's up front about being new, to the point he said he's never painted BA so is now painting a BA terminator up for me.

I've got FB and email contact.

I guess your one of the painters in the 600+ range :-)

I'd be closer to the 200 pound mark on Space Hulk but that again is because I am very new and building a portfolio, taking apart what I make and removing things like paint cost etc there are slaves in some parts of the world bringing home a higher wage than me. However I paint around work, and do it for the love of painting rather than as a money making scheme, since most of the models I buy myself end up getting painted and sold it allows me to enjoy the hobby and make a small amount of money on the side.

ids1984 wrote:
Sorry I should of pointed that out.

He's up front about being new, to the point he said he's never painted BA so is now painting a BA terminator up for me.

I've got FB and email contact.

I guess your one of the painters in the 600+ range :-)

A long way north of that - I'd estimate (for my sort of finish) around 220 hours work, so I'd be looking at about £1500 for the set with at least a month turnaround assuming I've nothing else scheduled in. More likely to take 3 months or so with other work alongside.

Folks are often shocked by how much things ramp up to - but if you bear in mind that works out to about £6.00 per hour by the time materials and tool wear is taken into account, it's pretty much under minimum wage for skilled work. Not a get-rich-quick business by any stretch of the imagination.

Edit: And that's another thing you have to watch out for with anyone claiming to be a business (regardless of the field)- if they don't justify their calculations, or you can sensibly arrive at a wildly different figure, they've probably not done them. Indicates unreliablity or inexperience. Either can be bad. Someone that does projects for a living should really be able to plan them, no?

Really interesting discussion thank you.

I have done a lot of commission painting work, under my own name, and under my business venture with a friend called OmniscienceMiniatures. http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/606386.page

And I would probably charge around $300 plus shipping for the whole thing to be taken care of.

What I do, is ask for 50% up front, and the models. I know there is a fear of me taking the money and the models and just going dark, so I give my personal email, as well as phone number, full name, and facebook page (both my personal one, and my business one). I also send updates of how the models are doing. This is to keep you reassured that I am taking the best possible care of you, and your models.

I hope you don't pay rent, man.

You can find some cheap but fairly high standard painters.
I charged about £20 for this unit http://www.coolminiornot.com/365702, although I ask to have no time restrictions and I only accept small projects (not a while space hulk set) that appeal to me.
If you want to find a painter to do a given set to a high standard in a reasonable amount of time, as Winterdyne says it will tend to cost a lot!

Omniscience posted some work of them. in Modeling
And showcase and realy? It sucked

staju1985 wrote:
Omniscience posted some work of them. in Modeling
And showcase and realy? It sucked

Why exactly are you commenting on this thread to talk gak about an unrelated post by another member of this forum that has nothing to do with this topic?

No one needs behavior like that.

 Nafarious wrote:
I have done a lot of commission painting work, under my own name, and under my business venture with a friend called OmniscienceMiniatures. http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/606386.page

And I would probably charge around $300 plus shipping for the whole thing to be taken care of.

What I do, is ask for 50% up front, and the models. I know there is a fear of me taking the money and the models and just going dark, so I give my personal email, as well as phone number, full name, and facebook page (both my personal one, and my business one). I also send updates of how the models are doing. This is to keep you reassured that I am taking the best possible care of you, and your models.

If you read the thread carfully you notice that said Studio posted an offer in this thread and the thread starter has to be
Warned cause the quality speaks for itself man!!!!

staju1985 wrote:

 Nafarious wrote:
I have done a lot of commission painting work, under my own name, and under my business venture with a friend called OmniscienceMiniatures. http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/606386.page

And I would probably charge around $300 plus shipping for the whole thing to be taken care of.

What I do, is ask for 50% up front, and the models. I know there is a fear of me taking the money and the models and just going dark, so I give my personal email, as well as phone number, full name, and facebook page (both my personal one, and my business one). I also send updates of how the models are doing. This is to keep you reassured that I am taking the best possible care of you, and your models.

If you read the thread carfully you notice that said Studio posted an offer in this thread and the thread starter has to be
Warned cause the quality speaks for itself man!!!!

You're right, I missed it because he didn't post under his commission username. However, that doesn't change the fact that you are overtly rude and offered nothing of merit.

Also, do yourself a favor and reread the forum rules.

The quality of the Models is clearly not that good.
In the Future i Will do what Most dakka People do...

Ohhh wooooowwww your failed drybrush attempt looksss soooo gooddddd...

Sorry but critic has nothing to do with being rude. Also you Realy Need to read the thread. I posted a very good Commission painter earlier including Facebook Page etc....so i clearly was constructive.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

staju1985 wrote:
Awaken Realms, aka medows,
check out his Facebook page, Homepage and YouTube tutorials.
he does great stuff and everytime i ask him how he has done some effect he responds, even if i never bought a mini from him.

I was also the First One answering

staju1985 wrote:
Omniscience posted some work of them. in Modeling
And showcase and realy? It sucked

But your critique wasn't. It was neither well worded nor objective. He didn't try to decieve anyone, he simply offered his services. It's any customers duty to check the work of the painter you want to hire. I did take a look at it too, and while I don't dig the look he uses for miniatures, it is nonetheless nothing that "sucks". And saying something "sucks" is actually considered rude by most people.

This is Not the Place to Discuss this, if you have any Problems
With my wording pm me

staju1985 wrote:
The quality of the Models is clearly not that good.
In the Future i Will do what Most dakka People do...

Ohhh wooooowwww your failed drybrush attempt looksss soooo gooddddd...

Sorry but critic has nothing to do with being rude. Also you Realy Need to read the thread. I posted a very good Commission painter earlier including Facebook Page etc....so i clearly was constructive.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

staju1985 wrote:
Awaken Realms, aka medows,
check out his Facebook page, Homepage and YouTube tutorials.
he does great stuff and everytime i ask him how he has done some effect he responds, even if i never bought a mini from him.

I was also the First One answering

Congratulations, you're the first person I've added to my ignore list.

You keep telling me to read the post, which I have, and the fact that you recommended a commission painter in the first response means you didn't read the OP. The question asked was, "What should I look for in a painter?" not, "Who should I pick?" Then you follow that up by being incredibly rude to other posters (on this thread and others), which if you read the forum rules you would know is a violation of the very first rule and basic civility.

Let's try to get back on topic, please. The topic being:

ids1984 wrote:
So my question, any top tips for picking a painter and more importantly how can you protect yourself?

Also, in the future please remember that we take Rule #1 "Be Polite" quite seriously in the Painting & Modeling area. So, if you're going to offer a negative critique of someone's work, please cite reasons for your criticism and consider suggesting how they could improve in certain areas. Just saying something "sucks" isn't a good way of getting a point across, and will result in people bristling in response, rather taking helpful feedback onboard and getting better as a result.

For protecting yourself I'd reiterate:

Look at examples of their previous work. Make sure what they are offering is what you want.

Agree upon a timescale, if there are delays they should let you know. I had a quite lengthy delay on a commission due to missing parts but kept the client apprised of developments.

Understand that cheap isn't always better. Again look at the quality of their work. Evaluate if the money you are willing to spend matches up with the quality you want (I.e. Winterdyne produces amazing art quality models and charges appropriately. You won't get that quality for much less)

If paying through PayPal do it as a transaction not a gift. This is a business transaction and should be treated as such.

Thanks for the replies all, you may if also noticed I ignored the posts offering commission as thats not what this was about.

The top tips I've taken are:
Establish your expections, what you vs your wallet
Look at previous work
Establish a time frame
Communication is key
And a leap of faith is still needed!

I'd consider giving a potential service a test model first before a big commission like space hulk. For clarity I mean commission and pay for 1 model from each of them and then you can see their work in the flesh so to speak.