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Oh wait, special orders, warlord traits? Oooooooooooooh my.

 Bobthehero wrote:
Oh wait, special orders, warlord traits? Oooooooooooooh my.

The question is are they different enough, as well as the army-wide special rules, to justify this in place of the Assault Brigade? I mean, aside from havings points adjusted to match the 6th ed IG book and working in a few more orders to be more equitable to the main book, I don't see much based on the contents alone to justify the investment on my part.

Oh, I don't think this was mentioned.

Forge World have taken on somebody whose job is the creation of Decal Sheets and etched brass sprues so we should see a big increase in these products.

They started yesterday (Mon 9th feb) so it'll be a while.

Oh, and that person is Jes Goodwin's daughter.

 Koppo wrote:
Oh, I don't think this was mentioned.

Forge World have taken on somebody whose job is the creation of Decal Sheets and etched brass sprues so we should see a big increase in these products.

They started yesterday (Mon 9th feb) so it'll be a while.

Oh, and that person is Jes Goodwin's daughter.

You're kidding. That is too awesome to be true.

 Zuul wrote:

 Koppo wrote:
Oh, I don't think this was mentioned.

Forge World have taken on somebody whose job is the creation of Decal Sheets and etched brass sprues so we should see a big increase in these products.

They started yesterday (Mon 9th feb) so it'll be a while.

Oh, and that person is Jes Goodwin's daughter.

You're kidding. That is too awesome to be true.

I believe she studied illustration at Uni and is very good, but I thought Tammy was doing all the new design work? Didn't Tammy do all the decal sheets and heraldry for the Knights?

 MajorStoffer wrote:

 Bobthehero wrote:
Oh wait, special orders, warlord traits? Oooooooooooooh my.

The question is are they different enough, as well as the army-wide special rules, to justify this in place of the Assault Brigade?

These are two different lists. The current Siege list can be found on FW site for free, but it was made for 6th Ed and has no orders or warlord traits.

StraightSilver wrote:


I believe she studied illustration at Uni and is very good, but I thought Tammy was doing all the new design work? Didn't Tammy do all the decal sheets and heraldry for the Knights?

I don't know about that so cannot comment, but the gist was that she'd be doing only the decals and brass so they'd see a marked upsurge in product with some being shorter runs than others (probably based on sales).

So hopefully we'll see some mechanicum decals soon.

I didn't actually check the delivery date on the Vraks pre-order (it's from this Friday....the 13th ), so it was a pleasant surprise to get my despatch notice already

 Bobthehero wrote:

 MajorStoffer wrote:

 Bobthehero wrote:
Oh wait, special orders, warlord traits? Oooooooooooooh my.

The question is are they different enough, as well as the army-wide special rules, to justify this in place of the Assault Brigade?

These are two different lists. The current Siege list can be found on FW site for free, but it was made for 6th Ed and has no orders or warlord traits.

I think he was aware they are 2 different lists, more that he was asking if the lists are unique enough from each other to justify purchasing the new Vraks for the Siege regiment list when he already has the Assault brigade list.

 ArbitorIan wrote:

 zedmeister wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:

 e.earnshaw wrote:
Oooh vraks book wonder what new goodies come in that all pointing to the upcoming csm book.

Don't think anything new jumps out?

Just a fiddle to bring the rules up to date I expect (and a condensation.)

Looks like a nice update to the Krieg list at least as well as a few new detachments that I can see:

Death Rider Squadron - Battleforged Detachment
Gorgon Assault Squadron - Battleforged Detachment

The Krieg list looks like a good update / consolidation, but I wonder how different the RoV list will be to the standard R&H list in IA13. From this contents image it seems almost identical, with the addition of a couple of detachments. If so, that's a big chunk of the book to spend on reprinted rules...

I read through the new Vraks renegade list last night, I still need to sit down tonight and compare unit by unit to understand the exact differences but my initial findings are:
1) Khorne and Nurgle only, as you'd expect the other two chaos gods do not feature in this book at all in the list as options or upgrades
2) States that this list is an extention of the IA13 list and should be treated as such
3) More units start with the higher BS and don't have the milita upgrade option
4) No Avus as transports, in fact no real options for flyers that I can remember
5) Loses the built in options for marked chaos troops, but the IA13 doesn't have these options and Chaos Marines are full battle brothers so its not a massive loss
6) Some of the warlord options are different
7) Some of the devotions are different
8) Some of the options are different, a big *I think* on this one, but renegade troop squads in IA13 can take very few special weapons, in Vraks v2 its one special weapon per 5 members, with very large (50 ish) max unit size.
9) Basic units available are broadly the same
10) Removes the old limits on heavy armour

So its not a completely different list, its not a 100% faithful update on Vraks, but if you have a large Vraks themed army (mine is around 9k) then you have something that is a better fit to how we used to play.

IIRC the Death Guard in the 1st book had 2 attacks base so there's a loss right there (although probably a miss-type).

 Koppo wrote:
Oh, I don't think this was mentioned.

Forge World have taken on somebody whose job is the creation of Decal Sheets and etched brass sprues so we should see a big increase in these products.

They started yesterday (Mon 9th feb) so it'll be a while.

Oh, and that person is Jes Goodwin's daughter.

Oo, goody! I was gutted when they removed the Tau decals, as they were so much better than the standard in box ones, hopefully they'll make a comeback now.

You actually think they're going to bring back the Tau decals instead of just releasing a crap ton more Marine/Legion stuff? Funny.

Here's hoping for some kickass Solar Auxilia decals soon, complete with those neat army symbols.

Maybe I'll finally get some Astral Claws brass etch....one can dream right?

The news about new etched brass has me very excited. I love working with the stuff.

I've always hoped that they would do squad marking in etched brass, i.e. arrows for tactical marines etc.

 Looky Likey wrote:
I read through the new Vraks renegade list last night, I still need to sit down tonight and compare unit by unit to understand the exact differences but my initial findings are:
1) Khorne and Nurgle only, as you'd expect the other two chaos gods do not feature in this book at all in the list as options or upgrades
2) States that this list is an extention of the IA13 list and should be treated as such
3) More units start with the higher BS and don't have the milita upgrade option
4) No Avus as transports, in fact no real options for flyers that I can remember
5) Loses the built in options for marked chaos troops, but the IA13 doesn't have these options and Chaos Marines are full battle brothers so its not a massive loss
6) Some of the warlord options are different
7) Some of the devotions are different
8) Some of the options are different, a big *I think* on this one, but renegade troop squads in IA13 can take very few special weapons, in Vraks v2 its one special weapon per 5 members, with very large (50 ish) max unit size.
9) Basic units available are broadly the same
10) Removes the old limits on heavy armour

So its not a completely different list, its not a 100% faithful update on Vraks, but if you have a large Vraks themed army (mine is around 9k) then you have something that is a better fit to how we used to play.

Thanks so much for this, couple of questions:
3. Does the higher BS mean the unit is more expensive than it is in IA13?
8. How sure are you that the unit size is 50, as for example a platoon in IA13 is 50 men base if you take all five squads but they're seperate units. Side note it is one special per 5 in the IA13 list too, only reason I'm asking for a double check on this point!
Oh and the Arkos update, is there anything that removes his apocalypse finest hour in the update, I'm rather a big fan of using him as my warlord to deepstrike a legionnaire warband that can assault the turn they land...

 Tamereth wrote:
I've always hoped that they would do squad marking in etched brass, i.e. arrows for tactical marines etc.

You mean like this? £5 for 10 (bit of a rip off but they're pretty good)

StraightSilver wrote:

 Zuul wrote:

 Koppo wrote:
Oh, I don't think this was mentioned.

Forge World have taken on somebody whose job is the creation of Decal Sheets and etched brass sprues so we should see a big increase in these products.

They started yesterday (Mon 9th feb) so it'll be a while.

Oh, and that person is Jes Goodwin's daughter.

You're kidding. That is too awesome to be true.

I believe she studied illustration at Uni and is very good, but I thought Tammy was doing all the new design work? Didn't Tammy do all the decal sheets and heraldry for the Knights?

Tammy is doing design for GW, not FW. She did the incredible decal sheets for the Knights though.

 angelofvengeance wrote:

 Tamereth wrote:
I've always hoped that they would do squad marking in etched brass, i.e. arrows for tactical marines etc.

You mean like this? £5 for 10 (bit of a rip off but they're pretty good)

My experience has been that a lot of the go shoulder pads have been kinda smallish on modern plastic Sm. also are throws still metal or were they switched into fine cast?

I have to agree etched brass arrows would be better.

but I also want brass chaos stars sized more for infantry and shoulder pads to compliment the more tank sized renegade stars they do now.

 Azreal13 wrote:

 e.earnshaw wrote:
Oooh vraks book wonder what new goodies come in that all pointing to the upcoming csm book.

Don't think anything new jumps out?

Just a fiddle to bring the rules up to date I expect (and a condensation.)

I wish I could say I was more excited about this new book. As far as I'm able to tell though, they've left out the Storm Chimeras they introduced as part of the Assault Brigade, and they've also left out the planes.

I suppose the planes aren't a huge loss, after all they're described in IA AERONAUTICA and I don't think the rules and costs are any different from those listed in IA12. In principle you're allowed to include such units in any Imperial Guard armies.

I hope they plan to revise and update the Assault Brigade list, now that they're releasing a new Siege list.

Also, I don't know how to interpret the "Hydra Flak Platform" seeing how it's hopelessly out of production now. How exactly am I expected to ward off enemy fliers if I can't have planes or flak?

The Storm Chimera was never in the Siege list.

What's a Storm Chimera?

The third Vraks book was one IA I never got. I wish I had now.

A chimera with an autocannon, no lasgun arrays, armored track guards and 2 firing slots or whatever they're called.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
What's a Storm Chimera?

The third Vraks book was one IA I never got. I wish I had now.

The Storm Chimera appears in IA-12 as a dedicated transport for Grenadiers, which are also a troop choice. The Storm Chimera has an autocannon turret and some other compulsory upgrades. It's pretty good in combination with the Grenadiers.

It goes without saying that I won't be able to use the Chimeras in a future DKoK Siege army, but I'll be able to reuse almost everything else that I've collected.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
What's a Storm Chimera?

The third Vraks book was one IA I never got. I wish I had now.

I imagine their price has tanked on eBay now that a new edition has been announced.

Zingraff wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
What's a Storm Chimera?

The third Vraks book was one IA I never got. I wish I had now.

The Storm Chimera appears in IA-12 as a dedicated transport for Grenadiers, which are also a troop choice. The Storm Chimera has an autocannon turret and some other compulsory upgrades. It's pretty good in combination with the Grenadiers.

It goes without saying that I won't be able to use the Chimeras in a future DKoK Siege army, but I'll be able to reuse almost everything else that I've collected.

You could never use the Storm Chimera in a Siege list in the first place.

Personally I've allied Siege stuff and Assault Brigade stuff to make my army.

 Ignatius-Grulgor wrote:

Thanks so much for this, couple of questions:
3. Does the higher BS mean the unit is more expensive than it is in IA13?
8. How sure are you that the unit size is 50, as for example a platoon in IA13 is 50 men base if you take all five squads but they're seperate units. Side note it is one special per 5 in the IA13 list too, only reason I'm asking for a double check on this point!
Oh and the Arkos update, is there anything that removes his apocalypse finest hour in the update, I'm rather a big fan of using him as my warlord to deepstrike a legionnaire warband that can assault the turn they land...

Finally got round to sitting down with both books side by side rather than going from my inpefect memory so:
1) Warlord Traits are identical
2) Devotions, we lose Mutant Overlord, Heretek Magus, but gain Shock Legion Taskmaster - must take ogryns as troops but they don't count as scoring or objective secured, which is WTF, any ogryns within 12" of the Demagogue can inflict D3 unsavable wounds on that unit to give them fleet and furious charge for a game turn.
3) HQ units are identical bar the loss of Slanesh and Tzeech marks
4) Elites - we gain we lose marauder squad, otherwise the same
5) Troops - identical
6) Fast Attack - lose the Arvus, Valkyrie
7) Heavy - identical
8) LoW - lose the titans, slanesh/Tzeech greater demons, the 25% of points total for LoW and any devtion can take any LoW unlike IA13.
9) Gain two detachments - The Purge, Nurgle formation that has barrage weapons acting like 30K grav weapons in that you leave the template in place to create new dangerous terrarin, and chem weapon upgrades that adds in gets hot and shred. The other formation, Unending Host any unit that can reenter after being destroyed does so on a 2+ rather than the normal 5+ gaining outflank, 2d6 for run when reentering, cover from intervening friendily units is 3+ not 5+
10) The demons in the heros section in Vraks v2 state that they are not the same demon as IA13, so you could field two of them, one from each book, which seems crazy. Obviously we gain the Vraks heros/villians over IA13 and lose the rules for the greater demons, although the khorne and nurgle ones are valid choices still.

Overall not enough has changed in this new version bar the heroes and they cut out of the campaign meaning I have to keep this and the old books.

 Looky Likey wrote:

 Ignatius-Grulgor wrote:

Thanks so much for this, couple of questions:
3. Does the higher BS mean the unit is more expensive than it is in IA13?
8. How sure are you that the unit size is 50, as for example a platoon in IA13 is 50 men base if you take all five squads but they're seperate units. Side note it is one special per 5 in the IA13 list too, only reason I'm asking for a double check on this point!
Oh and the Arkos update, is there anything that removes his apocalypse finest hour in the update, I'm rather a big fan of using him as my warlord to deepstrike a legionnaire warband that can assault the turn they land...

Finally got round to sitting down with both books side by side rather than going from my inpefect memory so:
1) Warlord Traits are identical
2) Devotions, we lose Mutant Overlord, Heretek Magus, but gain Shock Legion Taskmaster - must take ogryns as troops but they don't count as scoring or objective secured, which is WTF, any ogryns within 12" of the Demagogue can inflict D3 unsavable wounds on that unit to give them fleet and furious charge for a game turn.
3) HQ units are identical bar the loss of Slanesh and Tzeech marks
4) Elites - we gain we lose marauder squad, otherwise the same
5) Troops - identical
6) Fast Attack - lose the Arvus, Valkyrie
7) Heavy - identical
8) LoW - lose the titans, slanesh/Tzeech greater demons, the 25% of points total for LoW and any devtion can take any LoW unlike IA13.
9) Gain two detachments - The Purge, Nurgle formation that has barrage weapons acting like 30K grav weapons in that you leave the template in place to create new dangerous terrarin, and chem weapon upgrades that adds in gets hot and shred. The other formation, Unending Host any unit that can reenter after being destroyed does so on a 2+ rather than the normal 5+ gaining outflank, 2d6 for run when reentering, cover from intervening friendily units is 3+ not 5+
10) The demons in the heros section in Vraks v2 state that they are not the same demon as IA13, so you could field two of them, one from each book, which seems crazy. Obviously we gain the Vraks heros/villians over IA13 and lose the rules for the greater demons, although the khorne and nurgle ones are valid choices still.

Overall not enough has changed in this new version bar the heroes and they cut out of the campaign meaning I have to keep this and the old books.

Thanks so much. I do have one big question - can you give us more info about the details of the Unending Host formation? I ask because I recently built a Master of the Horde R&H army of 90 guys in 6 squads (using Krieg models, no less!).

I wanted to know if 1) you can take the formation with any army/book, just like other formations, 2) what units you must/can take in the formation (do you need a demagogue? Is it just platoons? what are min/max number of squads?), 3) whether the platoons in this formation (assuming it is just normal platoons) are more expensive than a Master of the Horde IA13 army due to being forced to take them at the pricier BS3/WS3, 4) whether these have objective secured (if not, OS would be an advantage for the Master of the Horde list), 5) whether there is any cost to the formation like old-school apoc formations, or is it "free" like modern 40k formations, 5) whether it is just "reserves" or "ongoing reserves" (people wonder whether that's a typo in IA13....), and 6) whether these come back every time they are destroyed like Master of the Horde, or just the first time (2+ comes back infinitely seems really strong....).

Edit: and I totally missed that part about outflank....wow. Does that mean that an Unending Horde unit that is destroyed can choose to come in from its own board edge or to outflank?