Do Chaos Space Marines look crappy?

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**aka_mythos**

The Wise Dane wrote:
See, this is interesting to me. The Chaos Marine sprues are more than just a problem in themselves to me - They represent the worst part of Warhammer 40K to me - Hair'n'metal.

Often I will find myself thinking "Hmm, I like the look of the Crimson Slaughter, Black Legion and the Purge among others, and What's It's Like was great at giving me an idea of how the Chaos Marines aren't just spiky marines, but a bunch of angry melon-fethers so tired of their old employees that they are doing everything to ruin their game, doing evil things for an actual reason and in general just being pittyful but awesome villians. I'll take a look at them next time I'm at the FLGS."...

Then I go to my FLGS and look at the models, and all interest is gone - Not only are the sculpts kinda dated in both appearance poses, but they don't represent what I expected, which is old fethers who enslave Daemons, scour worlds and generally are the main villian in the story. That's not the worst, though. The spikes and hair is reminding me of something bad.

When I ask people about what music they find fit the 40K universe, I always - ALWAYS - get the same answer: Death Metal. To me, Death Metal is the worst soundtrack to anything 40K because of how silly it is - I know, it sounds evil and slaughtery and stuff, but it's also massively over the top in a way I believe 40K has walked away from when 3rd Ed ended. So, when I see the Chaos Models, they look like Death Metal cover-posers and wannabe Iron Maiden-monsters, and not traitors or murderers that harkens back to the days when the Imperium was cool and then fethed it up on a galactic scale. It is from the time where Orks where Space Orcs and looked like mongrels, Space Marines where cops and Eldar where Captain Planet stand-ins. And all of this isn't bad, really - It's just from another era, an era that is over now and is being replaced with something else, modern 40K.

Basically what I'm saying is that they are dated. The Chosen and Raptors look better, what with Space Marines becoming more ornate and Chaos Marines getting appropriatly more ornate in a twisted way.

I agree. When I look at the Chaos artwork every image shows these rich and distinctive textures. Some are metal, bone, and horn but it's when they're used more sparingly and in combination with all the other textures and imagery that they work.

GW's distillation of chaos marines is a kin to just drawing a smile on a page and calling it the Mona Lisa; maybe that makes a statement and is identifiable but it is a very minimal and the most superficial sort of representation. It is too stark a contrast between the Chosen and Chaos Space Marines.

Previously in this thread I voiced similar thoughts and was met with a "then buy those" or "convert that" response. My problem with that is we aren't buying armatures when we buy these minis so much as we buy miniature representations. These representations don't go far enough to represent.

**The Wise Dane**

aka_mythos wrote:
The Wise Dane wrote:
See, this is interesting to me. The Chaos Marine sprues are more than just a problem in themselves to me - They represent the worst part of Warhammer 40K to me - Hair'n'metal.

Often I will find myself thinking "Hmm, I like the look of the Crimson Slaughter, Black Legion and the Purge among others, and What's It's Like was great at giving me an idea of how the Chaos Marines aren't just spiky marines, but a bunch of angry melon-fethers so tired of their old employees that they are doing everything to ruin their game, doing evil things for an actual reason and in general just being pittyful but awesome villians. I'll take a look at them next time I'm at the FLGS."...

Then I go to my FLGS and look at the models, and all interest is gone - Not only are the sculpts kinda dated in both appearance poses, but they don't represent what I expected, which is old fethers who enslave Daemons, scour worlds and generally are the main villian in the story. That's not the worst, though. The spikes and hair is reminding me of something bad.

When I ask people about what music they find fit the 40K universe, I always - ALWAYS - get the same answer: Death Metal. To me, Death Metal is the worst soundtrack to anything 40K because of how silly it is - I know, it sounds evil and slaughtery and stuff, but it's also massively over the top in a way I believe 40K has walked away from when 3rd Ed ended. So, when I see the Chaos Models, they look like Death Metal cover-posers and wannabe Iron Maiden-monsters, and not traitors or murderers that harkens back to the days when the Imperium was cool and then fethed it up on a galactic scale. It is from the time where Orks where Space Orcs and looked like mongrels, Space Marines where cops and Eldar where Captain Planet stand-ins. And all of this isn't bad, really - It's just from another era, an era that is over now and is being replaced with something else, modern 40K.

Basically what I'm saying is that they are dated. The Chosen and Raptors look better, what with Space Marines becoming more ornate and Chaos Marines getting appropriatly more ornate in a twisted way.

I agree. When I look at the Chaos artwork every image shows these rich and distinctive textures. Some are metal, bone, and horn but it's when they're used more sparingly and in combination with all the other textures and imagery that they work.

GW's distillation of chaos marines is a kin to just drawing a smile on a page and calling it the Mona Lisa; maybe that makes a statement and is identifiable but it is a very minimal and the most superficial sort of representation. It is too stark a contrast between the Chosen and Chaos Space Marines.

Previously in this thread I voiced similar thoughts and was met with a "then buy those" or "convert that" response. My problem with that is we aren't buying armatures when we buy these minis so much as we buy miniature representations. These representations don't go far enough to represent.

Well yeah - I believe GWs old dogma of "We're a model company, not a game company" is really showing through some of their most recent models like Nagash who really shows what they are capable of at this point in time, so seeing these older models on the table doesn't really take that idea all the way through. I don't like representative models too much, as most of them don't fit the asthetics the way GW makes the model do (Though I'd say the Tau and some of the Necron models aren't in that alley either, but anyway), and that just doesn't look good.

Thing is, if GW wanted to, they could easily update the current models to something more Chosen-y, but I'm afraid there might not be enough buyers to make it a profitable investment. I'd love to see it, and it might just make me go for some, but as long as we have the old range I won't be touching them.

**aka_mythos**

I think part of the blandness comes from GW trying to use the CSM kit as a core kit for the Plague marine, Noise Marine, and Thousand Son kits, that would simply use add-on bits to make whole new kits. To me its actually those kits that accentuate how minimal GW's effort was. To me those kits look like uncohesive models with bits that have a drastically different character to them from their legs and other bits. GW's almost completely retired those sorts of add-on kits in favor of full kits. Once that's happened with Chaos I can see them revisiting the Chaos marines and doing a little more.

**TheCustomLime**

Ehh... I don't think they should pattern a new CSM box after the DV chosen or the raptors. Those models have a bit too much bling. I'd prefer more plain models.

**Desubot**

Definitly needs an overhaul. and a boot to the codex. Nurgle is slowed good and i Hate seeing everyone and there grandma use or convert plague bearers. some times they are done well, but a lot i see are just done bad :/

would love to see more slannesh corn and Tzeench be played for once.

**jasper76**

For the most part, for CSM Power Armor models, I use regular Space Marines. Because I find all the spikes and spookies a bit on the cheesy side.

Like TheCustomLine, I wouldn't want them to go the route of making them even more blingy.

**TheCustomLime**

What I'd love to see is a kit that uses Mk. IV power armor as the base like how the regular marine kit used Mk. 7. Then it includes a ton of bits from different marks. Add some chaos imagery and you are good to go.

**jasper76**

<Disregard, I had things wrong>

**aka_mythos**

TheCustomLime wrote:
What I'd love to see is a kit that uses Mk. IV power armor as the base like how the regular marine kit used Mk. 7. Then it includes a ton of bits from different marks. Add some chaos imagery and you are good to go.

That's another good example of how the a Chaos marine kit doesn't make sense... The Chaos Marine kit is almost exclusively mk7 armor, where even if the models only represented recently renegade marines they'd still have a greater proportion of older armor than the kit that's sold. The loyalist kit throws in a whole mk4, a mk6, and even some mk5 bits. Even if we wanted a basic minimal composition to the chaos marine kit the current fail to even live up to the diversity of the basic tactical squad, while being expected to represent far more.

**Ailaros**

TheCustomLime wrote:What I'd love to see is a kit that uses Mk. IV power armor as the base like how the regular marine kit used Mk. 7. Then it includes a ton of bits from different marks. Add some chaos imagery and you are good to go.

Hah, I see what you did there...