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As we all know. DA fliers are quite frankly. Shettastical when it comes to fighting enemy fliers. The question I pose is. What if we use other slots for anti air. (Looking at you black knights and mortis dreads. ).

Strafing run makes the fliers BS5 vs ground.
So with the mega bolter that's
5 str 6 ap 4, 3 str5 ap4 and 2 str 6 ap4 shots coming out at BS 5. That's a fair amount of anti infantry and light vehicle dakka. All hitting on 2s. Has anyone tried it this way before?

Probably because you're paying 180 points for a flier than will probably be on the board for 3 turns dropping 10 S5/6 shots a turn. A dakka pred drops 8 S5/7 shots a turn for half the cost at 95 and is there all game. The dakka pred isn't that good and its a better deal so why would anyone use the nephilim? The DA fliers are just abysmal for their cost.

dakka pred is a target, since its fairly easy to hit. most things are snap firing at the flier.

it also gains BS 5 against non-fliers, and counts any weapon destroyed results as immobilized results.... for what its worth haha.

 raiden wrote:
dakka pred is a target, since its fairly easy to hit. most things are snap firing at the flier.

it also gains BS 5 against non-fliers, and counts any weapon destroyed results as immobilized results.... for what its worth haha.

and all of that means what? It's still 180 points for a weak flier. S5/6 just isn't that good in the current meta even if it hits on a 2+ against a lot of targets. I would take another unit of black knights before I wasted a FA slot on the nephilim.

it's the point cost that is the problem. 180 points is... expensive, that puts it's point cost up with a lotta the high value fliers, hell it's more expensive then a Heldrake!

 Goldphish wrote:

 raiden wrote:
dakka pred is a target, since its fairly easy to hit. most things are snap firing at the flier.

it also gains BS 5 against non-fliers, and counts any weapon destroyed results as immobilized results.... for what its worth haha.

and all of that means what? It's still 180 points for a weak flier. S5/6 just isn't that good in the current meta even if it hits on a 2+ against a lot of targets. I would take another unit of black knights before I wasted a FA slot on the nephilim.

I thought str 6 spam was what made eldar such OP OMGZZZZ OP.

I mean... kitted out WS+ 5 man squad is more than a nephilim.

As an anti infanrty flyer, the nephilim won't make it's points back. Where it really shines is against flying monstrous creatures. Those ten S5/6 shots can really put the damage on them, and considering how expensive some of those targets are (fateweaver is 300. bloodthirster is 250, Lord of Change is 230, a naked winged DP comes in at 185, and a dakka flyrant is somewhere around the 230 point range), a lucky volley with the nephilim can tip the battle in your favor.

I played a daemon player who brought fateweaver and a bloodthirster. (Yes I know it's rare to see a bloodthirster and it's not viewed as a competitive option) The turn my nephilim came in, I put 5 wounds on the BT and it ended up failing it's grounding test, causing it to lose it's last wound. Already I'm up 70pts on my investment. It then jinked and was able to evade Fateweaver's fire and the anti-air of a soulgrinder. I flew it off the table that turn to keep it alive. The turn it came back on, I brought fateweaver down to one wound with him, but he passed his grounding check. Now I know this game didn't show it going up against Iron arm or the Grimoire, it was a friendly game. I'm just saying that it can be effective against FMCs.

 ironhammer2194 wrote:
As an anti infanrty flyer, the nephilim won't make it's points back. Where it really shines is against flying monstrous creatures. Those ten S5/6 shots can really put the damage on them, and considering how expensive some of those targets are (fateweaver is 300. bloodthirster is 250, Lord of Change is 230, a naked winged DP comes in at 185, and a dakka flyrant is somewhere around the 230 point range), a lucky volley with the nephilim can tip the battle in your favor.

I played a daemon player who brought fateweaver and a bloodthirster. (Yes I know it's rare to see a bloodthirster and it's not viewed as a competitive option) The turn my nephilim came in, I put 5 wounds on the BT and it ended up failing it's grounding test, causing it to lose it's last wound. Already I'm up 70pts on my investment. It then jinked and was able to evade Fateweaver's fire and the anti-air of a soulgrinder. I flew it off the table that turn to keep it alive. The turn it came back on, I brought fateweaver down to one wound with him, but he passed his grounding check. Now I know this game didn't show it going up against Iron arm or the Grimoire, it was a friendly game. I'm just saying that it can be effective against FMCs.

This. The Nephilim ain't gonna win the Bay Area Open, but It'll do pretty well in friendly games. That being said, it's totally an anti-ground unit, its not great at taking down fliers. I think at harassing infantry and light vehicles it does well, especially with the BS 5. I'm taking it soon, currently building and painting one, so I'll let you know how it does.

On an unrelated note, the model is, by far, the best looking space marine flyer out there. I absolutely love it!

Hell yeah! Side note, are you pissed the AMB is actually the downgraded version AND 7th took away Missile Lock in the FAQ?

As other have said, in an anti infantry role the flyers are not bad.....its just that they are expensive and there are better options for the same job.

Why take a nephilim for anti infantry, when you can take black knights for anti everything.

Another issue against this is that anti infantry is something that many DA lists already have in abundance. Anti air capability is what is needed, and therefore that is what the flyers are judged on.

I always used the downgraded version anyway, so I'm not too pissed. What does missile lock do again?

Reroll failed to hits on missiles. For one use missiles, thats pretty damn good. Granted, they're no hellstrike missiles, but still, why remove that from our codex?

I thought missile lock was for blast weapons and that was why they removed it. Because our missiles don't have blasts. Anyways...I've used the nephilim a few times. Only for taking out small units that sit in the back. But even then....It hardly did anything good. The only time I had any use out of it was loading it with the TL LC and hunting down enemy aircraft. Which...has been hit or miss with that. It needs to either cost less, or upgrade the black sword missiles...something to even it out.

 raiden wrote:

 Goldphish wrote:

 raiden wrote:
dakka pred is a target, since its fairly easy to hit. most things are snap firing at the flier.

it also gains BS 5 against non-fliers, and counts any weapon destroyed results as immobilized results.... for what its worth haha.

and all of that means what? It's still 180 points for a weak flier. S5/6 just isn't that good in the current meta even if it hits on a 2+ against a lot of targets. I would take another unit of black knights before I wasted a FA slot on the nephilim.

I thought str 6 spam was what made eldar such OP OMGZZZZ OP.

I mean... kitted out WS+ 5 man squad is more than a nephilim.

Yeah, a wave serpent puts out almost twice as many shots for 40 points less and starts on the board on turn 1.

I really wish the DA flyers were worth it because they're definitely the coolest looking imperial ones.

Missile lock only effects blast weapons, so had no effect on DA flyers anyway.

Personally, I think the best use of the Nephilim is to use it as a proxy for a FW fireraptor. The weapon loadout is very similar. Stick some Heavy bolters on it somewhere are you are good to go.

 Big Blind Bill wrote:
Missile lock only effects blast weapons, so had no effect on DA flyers anyway.

Personally, I think the best use of the Nephilim is to use it as a proxy for a FW fireraptor. The weapon loadout is very similar. Stick some Heavy bolters on it somewhere are you are good to go.

It has heavy bolters already modeled on it. Second, are you sure? Don't have my rulebook on me, but don't remember it ever mentioning blast weapons

Edit: Pg. 168, 7th edition BRB

"A model with this special rule re-rolls failed To Hit rolls when shooting any weapon that has the One Use Only special rule. If a model with this special rule is shooting a weapon that has bothe the One Use Only and Blast special rules, that shot will instead scatter D6" rather than 2D6."