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 Jihadin wrote:
Well we are going to pre WWII strength level so NATO needs to step up and put up or whatever



Barring WWIII kicking off, that's never going to happen. And even if WWIII did start, it probably still wouldn't happen for most of them.

   
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I say we let Germany have our extra stuff for free. Long as they use it to invade France again except this time we let them keep it.

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 Grey Templar wrote:
% of GDP is only a good comparison if you don't consider why a nation's military is as big as it is.

I would say % of GDP is a good indication of how much a country invest in its military. The reasons for investing in the military might be completely justified, or conversely show a disturbing mindset.
For instance, Israel investing 6.2% of its GDP in its military make sense given how they are surrounded by hostile countries and have had a lot of wars in their recent history, with lots of lasting tensions.
On the other hand, Saudi Arabia, which officially took part in no war in recent history, was never attacked on its territory, is surrounded by allied nations and is allied with the U.S., spending 8.9% of its huge GDP in its military is quite concerning to say the least. Especially given their lackluster record in term of human rights. Just compare this to the spending of their main rival, Iran, which is spending only 1.8% of its GDP in its military (here, though, Wikipedia does not give any details, but if this does include only the regular military and not the pasdaran forces, this number is completely moot).
 Grey Templar wrote:
Remember the US military isn't just protecting the US. Its protecting a good chunk of the globe, including a lot of the countries we get compared to who have smaller military spending.

And why so?
 Grey Templar wrote:
But sure, ridicule us. Have fun fending off Russia all on your own Europe

I have always wondered where this strange idea U.S. people have that we would be invaded by Russia if they stopped protecting us come from. Do you really think that Russia would invade a nuclear power? Did you even noticed all the countries there are between, say, Germany and Russia? That is a completely unrealistic idea.

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https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1 
   
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I have always wondered where this strange idea U.S. people have that we would be invaded by Russia if they stopped protecting us come from. Do you really think that Russia would invade a nuclear power? Did you even noticed all the countries there are between, say, Germany and Russia? That is a completely unrealistic idea.


You're under 18 aren't you. Thats so cute.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
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Germany will follow the path that wins votes and get's them re-relected, as do most nations.

I for one thank the US for it's domination in world politics, lest we go back to the good ol' days of Europe pillaging each other and the world again
   
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 Frazzled wrote:
I have always wondered where this strange idea U.S. people have that we would be invaded by Russia if they stopped protecting us come from. Do you really think that Russia would invade a nuclear power? Did you even noticed all the countries there are between, say, Germany and Russia? That is a completely unrealistic idea.


You're under 18 aren't you. Thats so cute.


Thats kind of the point, its not the Cold War anymore. Russia doesnt have the manpower or military capability to take and hold the half dozen or so nation-states and millions of square miles of land in between it and Germany.

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And Nazi Germany didn't have the manpower to take and hold Russia in 1941. They still tried, and millions of people still died.

Just because something isn't feasible doesn't mean someone won't try (granted I doubt Putin really wants to try).

   
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 LordofHats wrote:
And Nazi Germany didn't have the manpower to take and hold Russia in 1941. They still tried, and millions of people still died.

Just because something isn't feasible doesn't mean someone won't try (granted I doubt Putin really wants to try).


Even if he did, the Russian "army" can barely deal with a bunch of armed civilians, they would get their asses kicked if they ever tried to fight any modern military force. And that is assuming that they could even drive their tanks 100 miles west before they all broke down!
   
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 LordofHats wrote:


Just because something isn't feasible doesn't mean someone won't try (granted I doubt Putin really wants to try).



That's probably why Putin is trying to take things piece by piece (see: Ukraine/Crimea )
   
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I rattle that more up to 1) Controlling the Black Sea has been a Russian ambition since forever (literally, as long as there's been a unified Russia, they've been trying to control the Black Sea), and 2) Putin wants to be seen as the guy who returned Russia to greatness, and all greatness requires a little conquering. He tried it in Georgia and got meh results. Now he's trying his hand at the Ukraine.

He's banking on indirect and limited direct military involvement to keep everyone else from getting too involved, but given the economic sanctions and Russia's already glass economy, I think the sanctions are ultimately going to bite him a lot harder than he thinks.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/30 14:48:43


   
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 Frazzled wrote:
You're under 18 aren't you. Thats so cute.

I am 27. You are being a condescending jerk.

"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1 
   
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chaos0xomega wrote:
 Frazzled wrote:
I have always wondered where this strange idea U.S. people have that we would be invaded by Russia if they stopped protecting us come from. Do you really think that Russia would invade a nuclear power? Did you even noticed all the countries there are between, say, Germany and Russia? That is a completely unrealistic idea.


You're under 18 aren't you. Thats so cute.


Thats kind of the point, its not the Cold War anymore. Russia doesnt have the manpower or military capability to take and hold the half dozen or so nation-states and millions of square miles of land in between it and Germany.


Cool. The Europe doesn't need the US any more. Get rid of NATO. That really really really works for me.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
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chaos0xomega wrote:
 Frazzled wrote:
I have always wondered where this strange idea U.S. people have that we would be invaded by Russia if they stopped protecting us come from. Do you really think that Russia would invade a nuclear power? Did you even noticed all the countries there are between, say, Germany and Russia? That is a completely unrealistic idea.


You're under 18 aren't you. Thats so cute.


Thats kind of the point, its not the Cold War anymore. Russia doesnt have the manpower or military capability to take and hold the half dozen or so nation-states and millions of square miles of land in between it and Germany.

Why would Russia even want to invade Gemany?

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 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
 Frazzled wrote:
You're under 18 aren't you. Thats so cute.

I am 27. You are being a condescending jerk.
Then you need to read more actual history on the Cold War and what went on thats not written by the Greens Party.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
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 Iron_Captain wrote:
Why would Russia even want to invade Gemany?

I'm sure they could find some ethic Russians to justify an invasion protect

 
   
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 Iron_Captain wrote:
chaos0xomega wrote:
 Frazzled wrote:
I have always wondered where this strange idea U.S. people have that we would be invaded by Russia if they stopped protecting us come from. Do you really think that Russia would invade a nuclear power? Did you even noticed all the countries there are between, say, Germany and Russia? That is a completely unrealistic idea.


You're under 18 aren't you. Thats so cute.


Thats kind of the point, its not the Cold War anymore. Russia doesnt have the manpower or military capability to take and hold the half dozen or so nation-states and millions of square miles of land in between it and Germany.

Why would Russia even want to invade Gemany?


Oktoberfest of course silly.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
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 Iron_Captain wrote:

Why would Russia even want to invade Gemany?



I take it you've never seen a Porsche, or a Mercedes-Benz, or an Audi.... You've probably never had Doner-Kebap either. And I'm guessing you're not old enough to drink, but take it from me, the beer is worth it as well

There's also Bayern-Munchen/Allianz Stadium. Oktoberfest (that's actually a really REALLY good reason to take Germany). I mean, I probably could go on and on, but I think you get the idea
   
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 Frazzled wrote:
Then you need to read more actual history on the Cold War and what went on thats not written by the Greens Party.

You are aware of the fact that the cold war is finished, right? You have heard of the fall of the Berlin wall, the dismantling of the USSR, etc? You are aware that West Germany is not adjacent to a country that was basically under direct control from a Russian government, but that now there are some of actually independent countries between reunified Germany and Russia? You have took notice of how the military budgets have actually been toned down a “little” bit?
Might want to take a look at that:
Spoiler:

Do you actually believe this downward trend is because we know everything there is to know on nuclear weapons?

"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1 
   
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Isn't Germany the one who says nations should keep their commitments - or is that only when its related to money?


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Given the nature of modern "war" (since apparently they have all been downgraded to "conflicts" now ) and the general global atmosphere, do we even need NATO any more? Hell, do we even need a standing army, navy and air force in the West?

   
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Those standing armies are exactly why "wars" have been downgraded to "conflicts".

Nobody can afford a real war when everybody has such large standing armies, nukes, and other high tech gear.

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 Mr Morden wrote:
Isn't Germany the one who says nations should keep their commitments - or is that only when its related to money?



Only when those commitments are to Germany.
But I agree with Oxayotl. End NATO.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
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No one can afford a real war when everone buys things from everyone else is more the case...

   
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That assumes that buying things from others is the sole goal of any state, which it isn't.

   
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 LordofHats wrote:
That assumes that buying things from others is the sole goal of any state, which it isn't.


No, it doesn't. It is a simple indication of how interconnected and dependent large chunks of the world are. It is why China can get away with such poor rights (the west buy too much from them to annoy them) and why we don't seem to care about the constant warfare in africa (not enough profit) but we do like getting involved in the middle east (yay, oil! Not to mention the great enemy ).

   
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 Blacksails wrote:
As a Canadian, I feel for them.

Same stuff over here.


Reminds me of a joke a friend of mine told me from our Afgan mission...
Q: 'what do you call a Canadian armoured division?'
A: 'a historical re-enactment'


I mean, we went willingly into a desert war zone in our freaking forest greens because we couldn't afford to keep desert combat gear on hand in case we'd ever need it!
Q: 'what did the Taliban say when they first encountered Canadian troops?'
A: 'why is that forest shooting at us?!'

But at least some of our tanks got upgraded to finally include air conditioning!
Unfortunately we're still flying Sea Kings...

 
   
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 SilverMK2 wrote:
It is why China can get away with such poor rights


Countries have been getting away with human rights abuses since forever, not because someone needs their trade but because it isn't their problem.

and why we don't seem to care about the constant warfare in africa


There's constant warfare in Africa both because no one outside Africa cares and the powers that be in Africa like war. It's what keeps them in charge.

we do like getting involved in the middle east


Yeah. So glad we intervened into Syria.

I'm not saying that trade doesn't matter. I'm saying that it is but a single issue and that it isn't the great war deterrent you're saying it is., Relevant ideological and political motivations will overwhelm that interest. Look at the Ukraine. Western Europe is reluctant to be much harder because they want Russia's gas. Russia can push it's war in the Ukraine because Europe wants that gas. That strong trade relationship has allowed Russia to execute it's war, and has done nothing to prevent it.

Strong trade relationships might benefit strong economies but they often come at the expense of weak economies, and the relationship only prevents war in so far as the trade benefits override other interests.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/30 19:06:26


   
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You ride Sea Kings? I thought you just road ticked off Mooses (Meese?) into battle like really really really polite Iron Wolf riders

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
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 Frazzled wrote:
But I agree with Oxayotl. End NATO.

That is not what I said, but you seem completely unwilling to discuss the issue. First making derisive patronizing remarks, then avoiding to answer whatsoever. Do you really believe that NATO is the only thing preventing Russia from invading Western European countries? Then why are they not invading all those countries outside of NATO with military spending that are way lower than those of France, Germany or the UK?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And just to clarify: it was on Dakka that I, literally for the first time, heard about how apparently some U.S. citizen believe that NATO is the only reason Russia is not invading Western Europe, and how Western Europeans were parasites that sucks the sweet U.S. military expenditure while giving nothing in return. That is some opinion I had never been exposed to before, and that I have still never been exposed to anywhere else. So, yeah, I would be genuinely interested in learning more about this idea. Because believe it or not, it has never ever been discussed, or even mentioned, in French media that I know of.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/09/30 19:13:53


"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1 
   
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 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
 Frazzled wrote:
But I agree with Oxayotl. End NATO.

That is not what I said, but you seem completely unwilling to discuss the issue. First making derisive patronizing remarks, then avoiding to answer whatsoever. Do you really believe that NATO is the only thing preventing Russia from invading Western European countries? Then why are they not invading all those countries outside of NATO with military spending that are way lower than those of France, Germany or the UK?


So now you want NATO? Why? I thought you just typed that there's no way Mother Russia could get to Germany. I guess you don't need us then.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
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