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I've seen him a few times, and if anyone has tips on how to down him, please post them.

Lizardmen: Arcane Unforging + stupid amount of poison; razordons + hand of glory for stupid number of hits.
O&G: BSB with Morks Warbanner, leading a giant unit cav, + Black Orc Warboss to challenge. It turns off ALL Nagashes magic items (he loses the staff, his ward save, his sword, and most importantly, he drops down to only knowing 5 spells as the Nine Books get shut down too. With +3 for ranks and 2 standards, and most likely a charge, they show up with +6 for combat res. The black orc has Tricksters helm, heavy armor, shield, boar, 4+ ward, and warrior bane, making Nagash him on 4+, wound on 2+ (re-rolling successes), passing armor on 5+ and ward on 4+. On average, the boss takes less than 1 wound. In return, the warboss strikes back doing .66 wounds on the charge (4+ hit, 5+ to wound, no saves). And he calls the waaaagh for another D3 combat res. Likely result is nagash losing combat by 8. Depending on what spells nagash lost when he touched Morks Banner, he might not be able to recover wounds.
O&G option 2: 6 bolt throwers, 2 doom divers, 2 stone throwers, hope to get lucky, Gork'll fix it to force re-rolls of 6's to save. Add in warpath repeatedly stomping for S7 D3 wounds, and again, hoping to get lucky.

Vampire Counts: Yeah, I refuse to kneel before Nagash. Vampire Lord, hell steed, heavy armor, shield, lance, aura of dark majesty, quick blood, beguile, night shroud, 4+ ward, other tricksters shard, 2 terrorgheists, and every banshee you can get into range. Fly up and charge, drop his LD to 9 and force him re-roll ward saves. Have everything that can, scream. Hope you drop him before combat. If not, take your 5 attacks (4 to hit, 4 to wound with lance, he must re-roll his ward). Because you ASF and he loses it, you go before him and re-roll to hit. Hopefully, you only need to do a wound or two.
If Nagash swings back, he's got to pass an Ld6 test or re-roll hits (he hits on 4+), he wounds on 2+ and you better make those 4+ ward saves.
Vampire option 2: stupid number of ghouls, and start grinding. 28 poison attacks a turn will slowly grind.

Empire:
Wizard lord on griffon (stop laughing). Take Sword of striking, Talisman of Protection and Van Horstmans speculum.
Nagash gets 1 S3 attack, hitting on 3+, and needing a 6 to wound, you save on 4+.
Then you swing back with 6 S7 attacks (hitting on 4+ wounding his T4 on a 2+, nagash saves on 4+), griffon hits on 4+ and wounds on 2's.
You're only doing ~2 wounds a turn, but nagash is crippled while in the challenge. If you can get a steam tank into the fight during the challenge, the impact hits should kill him.
Empire option 2: 3 great cannons, 2 steam tanks.

Beastman: Herd stone, stupid number of power dice. Mindrazor on gor herd for lots of S9 attacks.

Any ideas for other armies?

Dwarfs with a silly number of Runed up War Machines?

For just the cost of Nagash alone, the Dwarf player could field 2 cannons with Forging, three Accurate Grudge Throwers, and two Accurate Organ Guns. There are plenty of points to include additional useful runes to make sure there are not identical rune combinations.

About as cheap as it gets is 990 points.
Problem I've seen is Nagash will hide if he can, and just summon at 36".
It's tough to deal with 50 zombies showing up on the flank on a 9+ to cast (nagash needs to roll a 4).
Lets alone 17 black knights showing up on a bigger spell.

I think it's the best bet, but I'm not fond of warmachines, because nagash is totally viable just hiding and casting.

Dark Elves - Witch Elf chainsaw. AFAIK he has no special immunity to poison, so just drown him in saves.

Light Council with TK, and anyone who spams War Machines, He's really not that hard to kill.

 HawaiiMatt wrote:
About as cheap as it gets is 990 points.
Problem I've seen is Nagash will hide if he can, and just summon at 36".
It's tough to deal with 50 zombies showing up on the flank on a 9+ to cast (nagash needs to roll a 4).
Lets alone 17 black knights showing up on a bigger spell.

I think it's the best bet, but I'm not fond of warmachines, because nagash is totally viable just hiding and casting.

Maybe a different way of playing in your area, but in our area, there is almost never sufficient terrain to effectively hide a model the size of Nagash.

His base is so big that you can even hit him with cannons if he's behind a building. Pick the initial target spot as close to the edge of the building in LoS as possible and hope the initial deviation roll is enough to put the ball on the other side of the obstruction. He's so tall that most buildings in our area wouldn't prevent him from being directly targeted by Grudge Throwers and the like.

 krodarklorr wrote:
Light Council with TK, and anyone who spams War Machines, He's really not that hard to kill.

I tried it with 6 bolt throwers, 2 stones and 2 doom divers.
Needing a 5+ to wound with bolt throwers is a major downside. Goblins hitting 4+ effectively means 1 wounding hit a turn, doing D3 wounds, which he has his 4+ again; if he's in the open. Stone throwers need some luck, and doom divers really don't get it done, but hey, we're going for saturation. In 3 turns of firing everything at nagash, I failed to down him. By Nagash turn 3, summoned units where charging into warmachines; and nagash was healing himself.

Tomb kings are going to need quite a cluster of wizards to over-come the T7. Taking 8 light wizards nets you ~6 wounds.
You'll want at least 4 light wizards for S7. Pair that with screaming skulls and archers and you've got a shot.


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Saldiven wrote:

 HawaiiMatt wrote:
About as cheap as it gets is 990 points.
Problem I've seen is Nagash will hide if he can, and just summon at 36".
It's tough to deal with 50 zombies showing up on the flank on a 9+ to cast (nagash needs to roll a 4).
Lets alone 17 black knights showing up on a bigger spell.

I think it's the best bet, but I'm not fond of warmachines, because nagash is totally viable just hiding and casting.

Maybe a different way of playing in your area, but in our area, there is almost never sufficient terrain to effectively hide a model the size of Nagash.

His base is so big that you can even hit him with cannons if he's behind a building. Pick the initial target spot as close to the edge of the building in LoS as possible and hope the initial deviation roll is enough to put the ball on the other side of the obstruction. He's so tall that most buildings in our area wouldn't prevent him from being directly targeted by Grudge Throwers and the like.

I run him behind the linebackers, 15 crypt horrors. For core, I have 10-15 drops of dire wolves. Yeah, you can see him, but you've got 6" of base to fire at. Half attempts fail (misfire, 8 and 10 over shoot or fail to fire at all). On the open, if you aim short, you've got upto 3 models, with 3 wounds each and 5+ regen that you have to Kill or the ball stops. Odds are better landing past him. But what's worse, I could just place him sideways. Now you've got less than 6" of target, making Misfire, 6, 8 and 10 all miss.
If 2/3 shots miss, and 1/2 bounce off the ward, he comes out surprisingly durable against cannons. With 6 units of flyers on the table (3x2 fell bats, 3x3 carrion), cannons don't have a lot of time.
While not a good solution, cannons, for a lot of armies, are the only real option.

Cannons are actually pretty good at killing him, despite the 4+ ward.

Even a unit of basic dudes can get some damage back. His stats aren't all that impressive.

The only thing that makes him scary is the fact he can basically create his own army. Once you get to him he's not as durable as 1000 points would suggest.

Ogre Greedy Fist is pretty scary to Wizards. I assume he can shrug off hellheart though.

There's a few models that can HKB. Bragg the Guttsman (Ogre), Skulltaker (Doc). I don't know Nagash or his stats or if he can shrug off KB.

Kholek Suneater (WoC) Is about as anti-monster as a monster can be. He's never taken because he's too expensive and only good for killing such things.

A lot of DoC monsters units can get super crazy powerful with their staff of change and balesword and super eternity sword thing and wand of whimsy.

Lord Kroak (Liz) does 3D6 S4 hits against undead in an arc every 10+ cast and he can repeat it over and over. And he has a 3+ ward and Unbreakable guards and can't lose his spell. Yeah, it's only S4, but if you know you're facing Undead, taking 6D6 S4 attacks every round is pretty gigantic.

I also say anything on a Carnisaur (Liz) is really good at getting rid of big stuff.

I took him out with greasues second round charge whole unit of skullies gone do to horrible postion of nagash for LD 3rd round charge into nagash 1 round killed. Greasues with strength 10 can do some rpetty good damage....if only he could walk....

Bragg won't survive to deliver that potential killing blow.

1+/4++ Old blood could do it.

Or, failing that, Ushabti with great bows. Stealth filth.

A Hammer will do it. Maybe a Rubber Mallet?

 thedarkavenger wrote:
1+/4++ Old blood could do it.

Or, failing that, Ushabti with great bows. Stealth filth.

Nagash has ASF, S8 ignore armor and D3 wounds. He's WS7 and init 6. He's got 6 attacks.
Ushabti need 5's to hit, 5's to wound, Nagash saves on 4+. If you take 18 shots, you hit with 6, wound with 2, and get 1 wound past his ward save. You just spent 900 points on shooters to do 1 wound a game turn. Normal skeletons hit on 5+, wound on 6+ and Nagash saves on 4+/4++. You need 72 skeletons (432 points) to do 1 wound. Which makes them twice as good as Ubshati.

Old Blood dies horribly. He 8/9 hits, 5/6 wounds. Half save, and then you take D3 wounds. That old blood averages taking more than 4 wounds per phase.
Carnisaur is worse; carnisaur takes ~8 wounds at ASF and dies. Then Nagash laughs as T7 shields him largely from the old blood. At ASL, the old blood is now on foot, and Nagash gets a Free D6 Strength 7 auto hits for thunder stomping.


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 DukeRustfield wrote:
Ogre Greedy Fist is pretty scary to Wizards. I assume he can shrug off hellheart though.

There's a few models that can HKB. Bragg the Guttsman (Ogre), Skulltaker (Doc). I don't know Nagash or his stats or if he can shrug off KB.

Kholek Suneater (WoC) Is about as anti-monster as a monster can be. He's never taken because he's too expensive and only good for killing such things.

A lot of DoC monsters units can get super crazy powerful with their staff of change and balesword and super eternity sword thing and wand of whimsy.

Lord Kroak (Liz) does 3D6 S4 hits against undead in an arc every 10+ cast and he can repeat it over and over. And he has a 3+ ward and Unbreakable guards and can't lose his spell. Yeah, it's only S4, but if you know you're facing Undead, taking 6D6 S4 attacks every round is pretty gigantic.

I also say anything on a Carnisaur (Liz) is really good at getting rid of big stuff.

I said Great bows. Not great weapons. Everyone knows that Ushabti suck in combat. I have had 12 shoot Nagash off in a round though. And that is why lore of Nehekhara is made of awesome.

2 slann with Focus of Mystery and Higher State of Consciousness. So 2 ethereal loremasters of high magic--this is assuming Nagash doesn't natively attack magic (I don't know).

They both spam Arcane Unforging (24" range) likely taking out 2 magic items a turn. He's just one guy so he can't stack up super combat rez against Ethereal Slann. You can give one the BSB with a War Banner so he's auto +3. And/or give some cheapy magic items.

Even if he blocks a spell or gets an attack, they got a 4+ ward and 5W. The two slann can heal each other with Apotheosis.

Once they blow up his items, they can Contemplate their way to some more damaging spells or defensive spells.

 HawaiiMatt wrote:

Wizard lord on griffon (stop laughing).

This made me laugh way more than it should...

Gotta get him there but Daemon Slayer with swiftness, fury, might.

Slayer has 5 attacks that go first, 2/3 of games he'll have reroll to hit from Ancestral Grudge. hitting on 3's or 4's at S8 9 if charging, that eats through his armour, Nagash has to reroll successful ward saves and takes D3 wounds. Granted. if a unit of slayers gets to him he's pretty much dead anyways.

Wizard Lord of life, for healing, and shield of thorns would be even better.

 HawaiiMatt wrote:
I run him behind the linebackers, 15 crypt horrors. For core, I have 10-15 drops of dire wolves. Yeah, you can see him, but you've got 6" of base to fire at. Half attempts fail (misfire, 8 and 10 over shoot or fail to fire at all). On the open, if you aim short, you've got upto 3 models, with 3 wounds each and 5+ regen that you have to Kill or the ball stops. Odds are better landing past him. But what's worse, I could just place him sideways. Now you've got less than 6" of target, making Misfire, 6, 8 and 10 all miss.
If 2/3 shots miss, and 1/2 bounce off the ward, he comes out surprisingly durable against cannons. With 6 units of flyers on the table (3x2 fell bats, 3x3 carrion), cannons don't have a lot of time.
While not a good solution, cannons, for a lot of armies, are the only real option.

Dwarf cannons will all have re-rolls on the artillery die, meaning they have a 75% chance of hitting (or just over 55% if turned exactly perpendicular to the cannon shot; if there are multiple cannons, there will only be one where this is true). Two cannons with forging and three grudge throwers with forging/accuracy combinations have a very legitimate (greater than 50%) chance of killing him in one turn. Heck, if one wanted, you could go three cannons and three grudge throwers and make it all but certain. Out of those six shots with re-rolls, at least two should put wounds on him after saves, and then it's just down to how many wounds you roll.

If the Dwarf player goes first and gets two turns to shoot with those war machines, I don't care how many small flyer units you have. Nagash will be gone unless the dice decide to go way off of averages. Even with only one turn, there's a definite chance he'll be gone.

 thedarkavenger wrote:
I said Great bows. Not great weapons. Everyone knows that Ushabti suck in combat. I have had 12 shoot Nagash off in a round though. And that is why lore of Nehekhara is made of awesome.

Great bows are S6. And BS2.
You do hit on 5+ and wound on 5+. He saves on 4+.
So again, average is 18 shots for 1 wound.
If you had 12 do 7 unsaved wounds, you should have had went and bought a lottery ticket.

Great weapons are actually better, since they hit on 4+.

-Matt

 HawaiiMatt wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:
I said Great bows. Not great weapons. Everyone knows that Ushabti suck in combat. I have had 12 shoot Nagash off in a round though. And that is why lore of Nehekhara is made of awesome.

Great bows are S6. And BS2.
You do hit on 5+ and wound on 5+. He saves on 4+.
So again, average is 18 shots for 1 wound.
If you had 12 do 7 unsaved wounds, you should have had went and bought a lottery ticket.

Great weapons are actually better, since they hit on 4+.

-Matt

It's happened. Albeit with smiting.

 Acardia wrote:
Gotta get him there but Daemon Slayer with swiftness, fury, might.

Slayer has 5 attacks that go first, 2/3 of games he'll have reroll to hit from Ancestral Grudge. hitting on 3's or 4's at S8 9 if charging, that eats through his armour, Nagash has to reroll successful ward saves and takes D3 wounds. Granted. if a unit of slayers gets to him he's pretty much dead anyways.

Wizard Lord of life, for healing, and shield of thorns would be even better.

If Slayers weren't so Movement impaired, they'd be a great answer to Nagash. I considered posting that as a suggestion, but realized it would be unlikely that a unit of Slayers and Nagash himself would ever be within 12" of each other where the Slayers were free to charge.

One inventive one that I saw someone else come up with was:

Chaos lord on Disk of Tzeentch
-Mark of Tzeentch
-Talisman of Pres.
-Helm of many Eyes
-Warrior Bane
-Other Trickster's shard
-Third Eye of Tzeentch
-Unholy strike
-Shield

The ol' 3+ semi-rerollable ward save build. Unholy strike gives him one re-rollable to hit (ASF) strength 10, d3 wounds attack with re-rolling ward saves for Nagash. Warrior bane makes Nagash lose attacks. Theoretically this hero will grind Nagash down, due to an eventual loss of his attacks.

But with three wounds on the chaos lord, if Nagash sneaks a hit through you never know what can happen.

Over the long run, this guy will win more times than he loses, though.

Im still putting my faith in the double banishment of a Walter, 2 lvl 2s and 3 lvl 1 Light Wizards.
Mainly because it pulls double duty. Sure it might not nuke the big guy in one turn (but it should, str 9/8 banishment will hurt him) but it will also play clean up on the rest of the board, which is going a long way to effectively neuter his big cost selling point (the whole "by turn 3 he has probably created a new army and you cant win" aspect)


Also, a point to remember about the Wizard Stat Swapmeet, and one I learned the bad way (sending the wizard to neuter an Exalted Bloodthirster) is that Nagash still has (the option for) HKB, which means that 6 to wound is actually a 6 to kill...

I wonder how funny it would be to drop a comet in the middle of his massive army each turn.

All those units that will pop up will go away just as fast.

 Grey Templar wrote:
I wonder how funny it would be to drop a comet in the middle of his massive army each turn.

All those units that will pop up will go away just as fast.

Units that Nagash summons are so large that they shrug off comets. 450 points of monstrous infantry can afford to take 2D6+1 S5 hits.

-Matt




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 japehlio wrote:

Also, a point to remember about the Wizard Stat Swapmeet, and one I learned the bad way (sending the wizard to neuter an Exalted Bloodthirster) is that Nagash still has (the option for) HKB, which means that 6 to wound is actually a 6 to kill...

You can run that wizard with a ward save. I'd be happy to have nagash trading power dice for HKB.

-Matt

Has anyone looked at what empire can do with Gal Maraz or a runefang????

I know Gal Maraz does pretty decently agains archaon

BallinWitStalin wrote:
One inventive one that I saw someone else come up with was:

Chaos lord on Disk of Tzeentch
-Mark of Tzeentch
-Talisman of Pres.
-Helm of many Eyes
-Warrior Bane
-Other Trickster's shard
-Third Eye of Tzeentch
-Unholy strike
-Shield

The ol' 3+ semi-rerollable ward save build. Unholy strike gives him one re-rollable to hit (ASF) strength 10, d3 wounds attack with re-rolling ward saves for Nagash. Warrior bane makes Nagash lose attacks. Theoretically this hero will grind Nagash down, due to an eventual loss of his attacks.

But with three wounds on the chaos lord, if Nagash sneaks a hit through you never know what can happen.

Over the long run, this guy will win more times than he loses, though.

Awesome. Even if Nagash bounces back his wounds, he's still low on attacks.

I've fielded Nagash in three games, and the only time he's actually come pretty close to dying was against Empire. He charged a big unit of swordsmen, led by a witch hunter, a captain and a warrior priest. Nagash got challenged by the witch hunter, who happened to be carrying the speculum. Nagash was hurt pretty badly but managed to survive- I only won that combat because I also flank charged with a big unit of chariots, and rear charged with a summoned unit of sepulchral stalkers.

One thing that makes me nervous is fighting Lizardmen, which I haven't done yet but probably will soon. Steggos with the upgrade to do multi-wounds on their impact hits terrify me, although Nagash's high T should mitigate it a little. I've never played against a Lizzie army that didn't have multiple Steggos.

I think the Wizard Lord on a Griffin is the best option. Really, dropping him to 1 attack and neutering his strengths, plus attacking him with a beastly griffin? Yes please.