Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Inspired by that "best job you've had" thread. I'm in a rut, as i always am it seems

When you left education, or any other point in your life tbh, did you/ could you actually believe you would be doing what you 'do' for the rest of your life?

I ask because i wanted to have some kind of direction or reassurance by the time i hit 30. I'm not there yet mind! I did some "travelling" for 3 months and it certainly helped my thinking, and not my wallet. I've never "moved out" and don't have "qualifications". Actually right now, i don't have a job.

The strange thing is, i do like just doing the things i enjoy (sport dedicated, xbox), and never having enough time to do everything. I remain focussed on that, and careers/ work/ education, never really get much of my focus. I just find it impossible to imagen a life which is different from what i do now. In my experience, hearing from and watching others, it's primarily luck that has people in a position of happiness/ content that i'm jealous of. (except one or two who i know worked hard).

It may just be my upbringing/ pressure of parents of get educated, get job, get mortgage, get kids lifestyle, that i feel like i'm doing something/ life wrong.


I don't have any interests that are viable to work in; low wage and pure chance of having good work buddies. I like my local area, it has what i want/ need, friends, etc. But i know for certain this can all change, by sport can come to an end through injury as an example.

So i ask, as with the initial question, have you followed any sort of path with your life? Have things turned out well randomly for no reason? Did you feel lost once as do i?
That last question is quite laughable to type

As you are under 30 you, more than any other generation, have been bombarded with an array of messages that you are in someway special and are just awaiting that moment for your chance to shine.

No one tells you that even with hardwork you may never achieve your goals BUT that it is okay to aspire but not succeed.

No one has told you It really is okay to tread a well worn path.

But if you do want something more you had better do something yourself and make sacrifices.

But life, in general is pretty dull, its up to you what you make of it.

No one cares after your dead, so do what you want

You are stuck in your comfort zone and too afraid to get out of it. I don't blame you, your comfort zone is pretty comfortable.

What I did to get me out of my comfort zone is, I packed up everything I owned and moved across the country where I had no support network. When Imoved I had no job, a beat-up car full of old stuff, a rental agreement on an apartment where I was going, and a wife in ill-health.

That put me in my discomfort zone, and I fundamentally grew as a person because of it. Now, every two years or so I try to do things to shake me out of my comfort zone and involve some level of risk.

There are multiple things that have happened "randomly" that have improved my life.

None of which would have occurred by being apathetic or without some kind of intrinsic drive or motivation. Those three things that don't get much of your attention? Unless you're content living with your parents for the majority of your life and being generally listless, you'll need to give a gak about them eventually.

Or you can move to the U.S., be apathetic and listless, and live off the people that do care about education, work, and their careers.

Just gotta work. Doesnt matter if you have no passion or drive to work. You just have to nail down and do it. Get into a working routine now before you get too old.

You will have nothing and be nowhere unless you make yourself get out there and do something.

I have a friend that was like you. Known him since I was 10. For years he just woke up, played video games, hung out and did whatever. He said it was awesome etc all the time but one day he reflected and thought about how sad it all was. It got to the point apparently where he felt so bored and unfulfilled that that he had to force himself to play video games otherwise he would just sit there all day. You dont want to be that guy.

Granted im still young, but I have no passion, or anything like that. I just get up and do the thing that I know will get me somewhere and thats work. It sucks, really work does suck. But it wont suck forever. After 3 years of working more than full time its finally caught up to me how important it is and how far its got me.

Just do something. Get into a routine. Appreciate it. Hopefully get somewhere and then die. Or you can skip it all and do nothing, then die. One will make you happier than the other. In moderation of course.

But the longer you sit there the worse it will get. Working lets you meet people, those people have jobs and more importantly know other people with jobs. People talk and know other working people. I guess what im saying is video games wont get you the connections you need to get anywhere, just enough connections for another game. You want connections to get better jobs and success. You need to be around people who are successful. Most successful people actually do crap. If you want success find the most successful person you know and imitate them. That means doing stuff.

Success wont fall on your lap. So get into routine, stick by routines and work hard. Dont need to go to uni or anything, unless you have passion. If you are like me and dont, then working is your best option, and just keep working.

Thats my advice anyway. It sucks, but its gotta be done. It wont come to you.

But im only 20, people here are much older and know more than I. But as someone your age thats my advice.

Working on my 2nd retirement

I just dropped out of college, and became the fourth generation of my family to do so.

Do I plan on furthering my education? feth yeah! Do I plan on doing it soon? Feth yeah! Do I plan on doing what I will be educated in for the rest of my life? I don't know.

Be brave. Be bold. Take risks. Fall in love. Kill some terrorists. Turn into a jet. Whatever.

Frankly, I'm totally OK with doing nothing the rest of my life but the occasional house chore and spending the money my wife makes.

People change jobs, possibly career paths, I have had 3 changes in the "type of job" and worked for 5 different companies and even stayed home for a couple years to raise kids.

I had got extra schooling with various certificates and specialized in various software in my off-time so have created many options and opportunities.

By pursuing interests and getting something tangible for each has increased my happiness and marketing myself for other jobs I want.

Heck, learning new hobby skills like recently air-brush has made me very happy with the results.
Listing these other skills shows you have a well rounded life and can spark interest in you as a person to others.

I do not see the "same life" happening unless you truly find it rewarding "as-is".
Learning new things and finding joy in the new, helps mark the time rather than "same-old" making the time slip by.

Make a list of things you are interested in or want to learn more or be a part of, figure out the steps needed to get good at each of those goals. Prioritize what looks the most rewarding and "do-able". Little steps at a time give quick reward and build-up confidence to go for the "reach-goals".

You have found the right amount of risk when you feel a little bit like a fraud when you land that new job or accreditation: you feel you do not know quite enough and need to learn more quickly before you are "found-out". Very exciting.

Good Luck.

<edit> Re-reading OP post: Luck was more a factor starting out, as I landed further experience and accreditation, I got more opportunities at what I wanted. Find jobs / training you like, that is more hobby than work and you can find a better life than you initially imagined.

 eskimo wrote:
I just find it impossible to imagen a life which is different from what i do now. In my experience, hearing from and watching others, it's primarily luck that has people in a position of happiness/ content that i'm jealous of. (except one or two who i know worked hard).

This is your problem. You are part of a generation who prizes natural talent or circumstance over hard work and then when you don't succeed, you can't accept responsibility because it is due to things outside your control.

Your attitude that you assume people who have what you don't 'lucked' into it when you have no way of knowing that and are jealous of it is a destructive attitude to take.

This is an interesting article:
http://nymag.com/news/features/27840/

Basically those praised for being smart, don't try as hard and shut down when they come up against a barrier or hard work. Those praised for working hard are more willing to try harder tasks and work harder to overcome obstacles.

If you sit around expecting things to change due to luck, you will never see change or happiness because often 'Luck' manifests due to effort and failure. Failing 8 times can lead to one success. Trying 0 times can never lead to success. So what appears to you as luck is usually a string of hidden effort which you are dismissing in order to insulate yourself.

Sorry dude, everything is within your control and your success and happiness is directly in your own hands by the level of effort you put into it.

I'm 25 right now and posted in the other thread that the best job I ever had is the one I have right now.

All through university I was picturing myself in some kind of office position doing something related to HR. However, I could never visualize the transition between university and landing that 9-5 full time position. I couldn't picture that period of time, because I didn't want to.... it sucks. It involved me going to a bunch of interviews and getting rejected due to lack of experience - eventually settling for a temp job that paid minimum wage.

This brutal, low paying temp job was my gateway to an awesome position in the company. My advice to you is to step outside your comfort zone and try and get a seemingly crappy job in a decent company. The opportunities you actually want will eventually present themselves. The mortgage, kids, soccer practice, etc life style is not for everyone - there are many ways to live a fulfilling life, but chilling on xbox and playing some sports on the weekend may leave you with regrets down the road.

I wan tthe job of proving to God that being the sole winner of Friday's Mega Millions drawing will not corrupt me.

 Frazzled wrote:
I wan tthe job of proving to God that being the sole winner of Friday's Mega Millions drawing will not corrupt me.

Are you saying "My precious, My precious." over that ticket?

You betcha

I'm really good at programming, and I understand computer science to a point that is beyond the majority of my peers.

I hate computers. People seldom believe me, but I really do. My biggest problem is that everything I want to do leads down the path of minimum wage or is so anachronistic that there's no call for it outside of some far fetched and romanticized dream of the collapse of the modern world, so I plug away at it, and I mean, it DOES have it's perks. It's just not what I wished I was doing, but that's life.

You do sound like most of the typical people I've spoken with who don't have some burning passing for something within the range of age groups of just out of high school on up to their mid 30s.\

It may just be my upbringing/ pressure of parents of get educated, get job, get mortgage, get kids lifestyle, that i feel like i'm doing something/ life wrong.

Choose life, Rent Boy.

You know, it might be interesting to actually ask some of the people who you see succeeding how they succeeded. Usually, it involves a grotesque amount of determination and perseverance.

To land my first big professional job, I applied to 43 places and interviewed at 15, over the course of 2 months and several hundred miles. I finally landed a teaching position outside of my area of certification, and had to commute over an hour and a half to get to it from my residence- which couldn't be moved, because I was living wth my wife and she was going to college nearby. I'm still incredibly thankful to whatever deities had mercy on me and kept me from dying by driving off of the road at those hours every day.

That year was awful professionally, far worse than the last where I was doing two part time jobs and living with my parents. But the year after, I halved the commute, and landed a position in about half the time- and stayed there for 5 years. Each position after that has become easier to get, and paid more.

I'd also advise you to decide what matters to you most in life. To me, it was family, and once that priority was set, I was able to structure the rest of my life around that. Once you've done that, it becomes much easier to define success- a word with a different connotation to every one of us. Best of luck to you! Oh, and I am 31. My life alters daily, and will continue to do so, but I love it. I'd gladly stay on this path.

I like my current job enough to keep doing it forever, but I had to make some mistakes and learn some hard lessons before I was able to appreciate the job.

I think for many people what settles them and refocuses them to an extent is having kids or some other dependent. When you've got to think about someone else in a serious way, you have to put away some of the more unrealistic things you might have pined for and get down to making a living and getting stuff sorted out. I don't think there's anything wrong with that, despite what a lot of counter culture particularly tries to put across. Being a carer or a parent is one of the most important jobs there is, if not the single most important.

 eskimo wrote:
When you left education, or any other point in your life tbh, did you/ could you actually believe you would be doing what you 'do' for the rest of your life?

No, got into a job a bit to the left of what I went to school for, cool opportunity all the same.

I ask because i wanted to have some kind of direction or reassurance by the time i hit 30.

Funny, I felt the best age was 28: old enough to have a better handle on who you are, a bit smarter, and young enough to not be creepy going to the "younger" clubs.

I'm not there yet mind! I did some "travelling" for 3 months and it certainly helped my thinking, and not my wallet. I've never "moved out" and don't have "qualifications". Actually right now, i don't have a job.

Get something, even if it is temp or part time in the "meantime". The nastiest question in an interview is when they ask what you did between school / jobs. It will also make the parents happier to see you trying.

The strange thing is, i do like just doing the things i enjoy (sport dedicated, xbox), and never having enough time to do everything.

The leisure time is that jam-packed? Doubtful. Add up the time spent to and from an event and time spent playing.

I remain focussed on that, and careers/ work/ education, never really get much of my focus.

At some point supporting yourself will be important. Your parents have been working hard and would be justified in being jealous funding your lifestyle.

I just find it impossible to imagen a life which is different from what i do now.

Have you done work anywhere? Tried volunteering? Go to a temp agency? Wander the world during the day as people work and see what is out there? Community service? Talk to employment agencies or college / trade groups? It will all give ideas.

In my experience, hearing from and watching others, it's primarily luck that has people in a position of happiness/ content that i'm jealous of. (except one or two who i know worked hard).

Funny this, it appears to most of us as luck, but it is when "opportunity meets preparation". Meaning, luck happens all the time, having the ability to seize the moment and close the deal is NOT luck.

It may just be my upbringing/ pressure of parents of get educated, get job, get mortgage, get kids lifestyle, that i feel like i'm doing something/ life wrong.

Well, it is correct to feel something "wrong" with the situation: your parents are looking at you of what is your next step? It does not have to be traditional changes but something that gives progress and meaning to your life.

I don't have any interests that are viable to work in; low wage and pure chance of having good work buddies.

Can you try to develop other interests? I REALLY liked games on the PC and had a problem with "extended memory error" preventing it from running (LONG time ago) and it evolved to a point I got an MCSE just for fun and did some consulting on the side... hobbies can help out with jobs and money in general.

I like my local area, it has what i want/ need, friends, etc

It is acceptable to be happy with your community. It IS possible to be involved more and you could leverage getting a job in the area by being known and dependable.

But i know for certain this can all change, by sport can come to an end through injury as an example.

Anything can swoop-in and set you back. Develop skills, make learning in general a priority (does not have to be formal education). Just plain-old get good at things.

So i ask, as with the initial question, have you followed any sort of path with your life?

Yes, where I got my first job, I expanded those skills and became more "professional" while developing other "cool" skills that assist.

Have things turned out well randomly for no reason?

"Out of the blue" calls happened for no apparent reasons BUT I kept up contacts, put out resumes, stayed on good terms with recruiters, kept looking at the job offerings out there, talked to my old professors and they had lots of help to offer.

Did you feel lost once as do i?

I never had the moment of "I know what I will do for the rest of my life!!" but I always had that question: "how can I make things better than they are now?". That included the job I was in at the time or how my life was going.

That last question is quite laughable to type

"Lost" is more like not being in touch with how you feel. Need to do something... but what? Do what you think is right.

You say you are "happy" but the lethargy and contentment with what you are doing now at the expense of your parents is a bit tough, sure there is not some mild depression preventing experiencing life a bit more?

Get out there, I keep finding cooler things as I go along and life out there is more strange and exciting than anything I can dream up in my house.

Good luck!

It's an interesting question.
I knew what I wanted to do all the way through high school and into college. A year and a half into college I realized I wanted to do something else, so I changed majors, finished school, got a good internship and a job for a few years. They I changed direction again a bit (same general area, but different field) switched to another job for a few more years. Then we had kids and when we looked at my wife's income and personality and mine, it was clear I'd be the at-home dad, which I've been for almost 4 years and I'm only in my early 30's.

I have no doubt that there's going to be other jobs and possibly further education in the future and when that time comes, I'll make a decision and do it.

All this to say 3 things.
1) You're life is going to change alot. Just the current economy means that if you have the "same life for the rest of your life" you will be the exception. Most economists and sociologists will tell you that the new norm is that a person will very likely not only have multiple jobs, but multiple careers throughout their life.

2) You've got to pick a direction and head that way. Whether that means staying where you are and busting your but for a slim chance of promotion, or picking something new and running it down, it's a tough world out there and though you might fail, you certainly won't get anywhere by waiting for something to happen.

3) Here's the tough love: ditch the freaking Xbox and put your sports in the "recreation" role they deserve. If career/work/education aren't getting the focus they need than get rid of what's getting in their way. I freely admit that much of success can be attributed to luck and one's social resources (which are largely fixed at birth), but I guarantee you your "lucky" friends were at least out there, and not giving their xbox higher prioirity than their "real life".

I would like to point out that even though I forecast change and suggest personal choice, there is a real thread that connects all the things that I did. My initial career choice led me to the college that ended up training me for something different, my first job brought me into contact with the sister organization that gave me my second, etc. Sure some luck (or providence…) was involved, but I was out there doing something and that something led to something else…

You'll never find the something else without doing something.

Sorry, but it's rarely luck. And yes, I think we all feel lost at some point.

I'm 26 now. I had worked 10-30 hours a week doing odd jobs (dog grooming, golf courses, Applebee's) from age 15-20 until I moved to California with my family. When I got here I had zero job prospects, searched hard for a job for about 2 months then basically gave up and did what you're doing for two years until I finally got a job where I'm currently at, which is a Workers' Compensation Insurance firm. I started at just above minimum wage and my job was to alphabetize documents. Seriously, that's what I did for 30 hours a week.

Eventually, I worked hard, proved myself and moved up the ladder. Now I have my own cubicle (inspiring, I know) and make almost triple of what I started making at this place. It wasn't luck. It was hard work proving myself to management that I could do the job as good or better than the people who had been in this business for 10-30 years. Now I have a lot of people depending on me to show up to work. It's not exactly my dream job, but what was I going to do, alphabetize documents, play video games or play sports all the time?

And listen, even though I have a full time job, I still have plenty of time for sports and video games. I'm not a big fan of video games anymore, so I defer that time to other endeavors such as painting, etc, but I could easily make time for it. Since working full time, I would argue that I actually have more "free" time now than I did when I stayed home because I'm much better at managing and optimizing my time. Not to mention I don't sleep 10 hours a night anymore.

In retrospect, those two years I spent playing video games, going to the gym and playing sports, I was VERY content. It was awesome. At the time. Now that I look back at it, it was mostly a waste of time. It was not gratifying.

My advice would just be to focus on work or education, not both. I think trying to push both on yourself would just be too overwhelming. You've spent too much time outside of the work/education realm that you'd probably just fall back into what you're doing now. I would recommend just working in your case since education might turn into the "Community College Syndrome" where you're basically just sneaking more free living with your parents while pretending to get a quality education (I did this for about a year too). Working can be awesome. My favorite job actually was working at Applebee's because of the people that worked there. It can be tough at first to find the motivation, but once checks start rolling in and you become depended on, that's when it becomes rewarding.

Lastly, who says you have to find a job and do it for the rest of your life?

To answer your questions in brief: 1. No path, 2. Turned out pretty well, partly random, partly my hard work, 3. Yes.

If you work you die. NEET life is the only life.

Employment is someone else using you to make a lot of money that you're never going to see, and then throwing last week's table scraps down at you and your coworkers to fight over.

Living a 'real life' is surrendering to a cruel and broken system. Instead of seeking to labor, seek out what you find fulfilling and do that. We are now seeing in this decade the rise of a new underclass, the precariat, which will force society to shift in a more egalitarian and rational direction, and stop this insane attitude of "WORK IS WORTH."

A basic income or negative income tax scheme is now not only possible but entirely economical, and pressures for that change only increase as more people become disillusioned with the modernist value framework. We will see liberation from toil within our lifetimes.

Of course, that's if we're not overrun by the global neoliberal market agenda and swarms of labor-value destroying immigrants first, though.

Oh man, you're going to be a blast. Consider yourself friended, sir or madam. Without sarcasm, I look forward to your posts here.

 Platuan4th wrote:
Frankly, I'm totally OK with doing nothing the rest of my life but the occasional house chore and spending the money my wife makes.

You're describing my life, dude.

High five!

I spent 6 years in education after I left school, and still came out without much to show for it, all trying to get into a computing job.
But, I knew I could work IT stuff, and there's usually a job to fall into when one comes around. I got my first real job at 25.
I'm in my early 40s, and have spent probably 6 months of that claiming the dole. All of that time, I was applying for jobs, or doing packing jobs for agencies while I looked.

The thing that kept me looking was "what would the world be like if everyone just downed tools and played games all day?".
No more games, no food, nothing to watch on TV, no internet, nothing.
But then, I'm the sort to donate blood every time they let me. I try to do "my bit".

been in the navy, but i hated it so boring i really wanted to see action, made the mistake of joining that instead of the arm

so i wanna go to the army in the next year or so

but ive been jobless for a while now finding work is fething hard, man ive actually developed a bit of anxiety from not working its terrible

I gotta go with the "It's no luck." argument here. I worked my ass off to get where I am now. I've not had any hobby besides running when I was younger and getting started and spent most of my day working or gathering more info, attending lectures or additional classes to improve my CV. Fortunately, my gf (at that time, now waifu) was pursuing a similar career and we were able to pull each other up when one of us was down and felt like rock bottom. But it was a TON of work. Blowing sugar. Etc. In the end, though, it paid off, and now that I am in my mid 30s, I am a very high tier job, a loving wife that put through so much crap with me and an awesome daughter.

If you really dive into your career, and if you want to come out high, you have to make sacrifices - big sacrifices. But boy, do they pay off

Sigvatr: There is still an element of luck though. For example being born in a developed nation that is able to offer you the relevant chances. That doesn't minimise your hard work, but I think it is worth acknowledging that those of us born in developed nations are inherently lucky.

There is a lot of luck in a career.
Or, "it's not what you know, but who you know".
People are hired by people, and if there's any chance of favouritism getting into the choice, it will.
My 2nd (I'm on my 3rd) job was a leg-up from a temporary contacting job I had. I was working with a team that ran the contract, and at the end, I got offered a permanent job. I was there for 14 years, and got fairly high into the structure. That ended when the company got bought out, and my team got canned. Good luck/bad luck.

So, it's better to be known than to find it yourself. If people you know know what you can do, they could put you up for a role when it comes around. It's having people doing the work for you that worked for me. That bloke got a £5000 finder-fee when I had been there for 6 months, so it's in their interests, too.

By the same token, luck will only get you so far in MOST cases, without the work ethic to take advantage of the chances presented by luck.

Some people I guess, born into gigantic fortunes, don't have to work very hard to get anywhere.