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and just wanna say as well, who picks the DV helbrute over the FW dread, that comes customed to your army? (i have a secret, its 2 FW thousand son dreads cos they are awesome)

now makumba you have on many occasions told us how much you dont like FW and your area doesnt allow it because of more reasons we can comfortably list. thats great (and to be honest sucks for you and your group that people are so unrelenting on allowing FW models) but the rest of us atleast have some sort of chance and choice to play them. how to have them accepted is tricky, but essentially dont be a douche with it, dont cheat, dont lie, dont make the first list you bring something that wipes the floor with everyone. no one will like that.

we all know when a models rules are BROKEN, dont use those things without consultation, and you have a good chance of getting that first game in and people opening up acceptance.

Tip one: don't show them the new XV109

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/X/Tau-XV109.pdf

forgeworld is perfectly balanced guys. And im sure this wont be bait and switch to generate sales and later make it reasonable. I mean 2 ap2 baleflamers and all the goodies this one packs is ok.

"but its experimental!!, No way they would leave it like this, forgeworld is just as cheezy as codex bla bla bla"

The fact they would even test this with these stats, and not change it for months like the rvanna should prove they only care about the money. And if you make the stats garbage later, people will cry bloody murder like that guy who made a huge bait and switch complaint on youtube about the helldrake.

It's experimental, so that are not the final rules.
"OMG, LOOK AT THE ANNIHALATION BARGE!!!! Everything in normal Codices is horribly overpowered and just a money grab!!"

It's not bait and switch to create a unit that has Experimental Rules with a big banner saying that they will be changed.
And yes, Forgeworld is perfectly balanced.

You are welcome to play me anytime, unfortunately we're teammates in this campaign haha.

 AutarchRion wrote:
Is it possible you could bribe them? A nice juicy McDouble offered to me before a game would leave a smile on my face even if I was playing against Wave Serpents.

Try this approach:

You:"Hey Buddy!! Wanna play a game of 40k?"

Suspicious Opponent: "I dunno man...you kinda raped me last time... what you got?"

You: "Well, I got a juicy McDouble for you..................................................and 14 Wave Serpents and a Reaver Titan" (be sure to slip this last part in quick)

No Longer Suspicious Opponent: "Dude, you rock! Let's do it. I have 40 ork boyz and a trukk! This is gonna be the best game ever..."

This is completely unacceptable language. You are disrespecting something extremely horrific. Rape is not a joke and it is not a gaming term, and I am calling you out on it in-thread because I am sick of having to PM people over this.

Answer is actually pretty simple, but people don't do it because they need to win with plastic toy soldiers, or resin in this case.

If your opponent is "iffy" on it, just say his first few units have "Without Number" on it. That would mean once the unit is wiped out, on the next turn it comes back. If another unit gets wiped out, it comes back on a 4+, 3+ turn after that if it doesn't come back etc etc.

This way if it's over powered your opponent gets his unit back, and you can play. Maybe after the game, your opponent will see that Forge World is not really Over Powered and will play with you again without the "without number" rule this time.

You take the initiative, you take the risk to PROVE that it's not over powered. After all you are tying to prove it, the other person doesn't have to prove anything. He believes what he believes (or she) and by showing you will take a big nerd or he gets (or she) a big bonus can prove and show how you play for fun and there is nothing to worry about it.

 Frozen Ocean wrote:

 AutarchRion wrote:
Is it possible you could bribe them? A nice juicy McDouble offered to me before a game would leave a smile on my face even if I was playing against Wave Serpents.

Try this approach:

You:"Hey Buddy!! Wanna play a game of 40k?"

Suspicious Opponent: "I dunno man...you kinda raped me last time... what you got?"

You: "Well, I got a juicy McDouble for you..................................................and 14 Wave Serpents and a Reaver Titan" (be sure to slip this last part in quick)

No Longer Suspicious Opponent: "Dude, you rock! Let's do it. I have 40 ork boyz and a trukk! This is gonna be the best game ever..."

This is completely unacceptable language. You are disrespecting something extremely horrific. Rape is not a joke and it is not a gaming term, and I am calling you out on it in-thread because I am sick of having to PM people over this.

Exalted. Unfortunately, that is the norm. I've been trying to get people to stop that language and slurrs and hate speach towards others for a long time here. I get shot down and ridiculed each time I mention it. Glad to see I'm not the only one.

I've been doing it for months, with limited success. It's the reason why I hate 1d4chan/tg.

 EVIL INC wrote:

 Frozen Ocean wrote:

 AutarchRion wrote:
Is it possible you could bribe them? A nice juicy McDouble offered to me before a game would leave a smile on my face even if I was playing against Wave Serpents.

Try this approach:

You:"Hey Buddy!! Wanna play a game of 40k?"

Suspicious Opponent: "I dunno man...you kinda raped me last time... what you got?"

You: "Well, I got a juicy McDouble for you..................................................and 14 Wave Serpents and a Reaver Titan" (be sure to slip this last part in quick)

No Longer Suspicious Opponent: "Dude, you rock! Let's do it. I have 40 ork boyz and a trukk! This is gonna be the best game ever..."

This is completely unacceptable language. You are disrespecting something extremely horrific. Rape is not a joke and it is not a gaming term, and I am calling you out on it in-thread because I am sick of having to PM people over this.

Exalted. Unfortunately, that is the norm. I've been trying to get people to stop that language and slurrs and hate speach towards others for a long time here. I get shot down and ridiculed each time I mention it. Glad to see I'm not the only one.

Lol, really? Butthurt by words? The English language butchers the word and it's slowly going back to its original Latin meaning and then people rage? The word molest is also incorrect.

Just saying...

 RobPro wrote:
You are welcome to play me anytime, unfortunately we're teammates in this campaign haha.

Well, we will have to get a game going after we take over the planet then!

Not butthurt, common decency.

 Vigilant wrote:

 EVIL INC wrote:

 Frozen Ocean wrote:

 AutarchRion wrote:
Is it possible you could bribe them? A nice juicy McDouble offered to me before a game would leave a smile on my face even if I was playing against Wave Serpents.

Try this approach:

You:"Hey Buddy!! Wanna play a game of 40k?"

Suspicious Opponent: "I dunno man...you kinda raped me last time... what you got?"

You: "Well, I got a juicy McDouble for you..................................................and 14 Wave Serpents and a Reaver Titan" (be sure to slip this last part in quick)

No Longer Suspicious Opponent: "Dude, you rock! Let's do it. I have 40 ork boyz and a trukk! This is gonna be the best game ever..."

This is completely unacceptable language. You are disrespecting something extremely horrific. Rape is not a joke and it is not a gaming term, and I am calling you out on it in-thread because I am sick of having to PM people over this.

Exalted. Unfortunately, that is the norm. I've been trying to get people to stop that language and slurrs and hate speach towards others for a long time here. I get shot down and ridiculed each time I mention it. Glad to see I'm not the only one.

Lol, really? Butthurt by words? The English language butchers the word and it's slowly going back to its original Latin meaning and then people rage? The word molest is also incorrect.

Just saying...

Nope. Nope nope nope. We ain't doing this discussion on here. Yes, as hard as it can be to understand on the internet, words do offend people. You're on a site with a "fething " swear filter for that exact reason. Someone used a term someone else found offensive and they asked them to not use it in the future. If you'd like to start a discussion on the place of that term in gaming or wherever else, we've got a great PM system or an off topic forum.

The point of my OP has been pretty much answered and successfully solved at this point. I'd rather not do a rehash of an often repeated and usually nasty debate tacked onto the end of it, thanks.

 EVIL INC wrote:
Not butthurt, common decency.

It's a normal word and it has other meanings beside the one you give to it.
It was used 100% correctly in that sentence and complaining about it doesn't change the fact that there is nothing wrong with it.
It has three meanings: Forcing sexual intercourse, abducting and violating.
The word butthurt however comes directly from the 'forcing sexual intercourse', so it's quite hypocritical that you have no issue with that.

It's sad if a Dutch citizen has to explain the meaning of English words to a UK and US-citizen.

Ok, I'll tell you whatI dont want to explain to the 8 year old handicapped child why the grown men on an online forum called them a "slow" (used purely for an example, not for use) when they asked a question regarding their army they are trying to learn. Or explain to them, why the grown men on the same forum suggested that they "rape their mom" because she plays the same game (again, used purely as an example and not to be taken as my opinion). Terms exist and there is a time and place for everything. Many of us feel that a site dedicated to gaming should not be the place to air hatreds towards other people or groups of people for example, "handicapped" people or people of a certain skin color or nationality or religion or to encourage such things as the term mentioned. because even though, it may have more than one definition, it is obviously intended to be using the definition that is offensive.

the_scotsman, you are correct, this is not the thread for this. It has already been made clear to all that this is considered to be ok here and is allowed. My apologies for stating my opinion. I was only showing support for another of a like mind to myself on this topic.

That being said, I enjoy thhhe forgeworld models and like to see their use for the quality of the sculpting and especially like thehm when they are well painted. Just as I prefer to know beforehand if Im going to see things like a baneblade in a 1,000 point list, or an all knight army, I would also like to know beforehand if I am going to see a titan. In friendly games, this is only common courtesy in my opinion. I can understand bringing that sort of thing to a tourney but then again, going to a tourney, I'm gonna cheese out as well and already take it for granted that I will see them. Of course, this is only my opinion.

Actually, there are a LOT of words being used here that really just aren't welcome on this site, when used in certain ways.

So, having said that, just tone down the hyperbole a bit, and everything will probably be fine.

Vigilant wrote:
Lol, really? Butthurt by words? The English language butchers the word and it's slowly going back to its original Latin meaning and then people rage? The word molest is also incorrect.

I don't give a damn. Are we speaking Latin? It is a clear misuse of a word that, in the English language, means sexual abuse. It's highly insensitive and dismissive of a very serious crime that has very real victims, and don't you dare pretend that it's just going back to its "actual" meaning. It is spiteful and willful ignorance.

Kangodo wrote:It's a normal word and it has other meanings beside the one you give to it.
It was used 100% correctly in that sentence and complaining about it doesn't change the fact that there is nothing wrong with it.
It has three meanings: Forcing sexual intercourse, abducting and violating.
The word butthurt however comes directly from the 'forcing sexual intercourse', so it's quite hypocritical that you have no issue with that.

It's sad if a Dutch citizen has to explain the meaning of English words to a UK and US-citizen.

"Butthurt" implies nothing more than anal sex that leaves the receiver sore. How is "you beat me at a game"/"this unit is powerful" or anything so harmless a "100% correct" usage, in any of the meanings you just stated?

It's sad when a person has to explain to another person that frivolously misusing something so truly awful as a game term is not okay.

EDIT: Alpharius, it deeply saddens me that this is all you have to say in this regard. Not that I've come to expect any more from the staff here, sadly, given how I have repeatedly made reports on this topic to absolutely no avail.

Edited by Manchu. Please don't spam the forum. Thanks.

In addition to what Alpharius posted above, a lot of this is completely off-topic. Please save the discussion about offensive language for the OT boards. Thanks.

If you meet the same people and trust them pretty well to be responsible adults, schedule a game for them one week where you will play each other's army. Trade codexes and let them know your list, so that the following week, you guys will be ready to play with each other's army.

Once they play using the kinds of units and forces you have, they will understand. Walk a mile in their shoes and all that.

Not sure if anyone else has said this but if your group is cool with this kind of stuff maybe ask your opponent to switch armies for a game? let them use the "OMGOP" fw stuff and you use their army or one of your other armies. From what i have experienced the best way to see that something isn't op is to test drive it yourself and see it isn't anything special.

 EVIL INC wrote:
Ok, I'll tell you whatI dont want to explain to the 8 year old handicapped child why the grown men on an online forum called them a "slow" (used purely for an example, not for use) when they asked a question regarding their army they are trying to learn. Or explain to them, why the grown men on the same forum suggested that they "rape their mom" because she plays the same game (again, used purely as an example and not to be taken as my opinion). Terms exist and there is a time and place for everything. Many of us feel that a site dedicated to gaming should not be the place to air hatreds towards other people or groups of people for example, "handicapped" people or people of a certain skin color or nationality or religion or to encourage such things as the term mentioned. because even though, it may have more than one definition, it is obviously intended to be using the definition that is offensive.

the_scotsman, you are correct, this is not the thread for this. It has already been made clear to all that this is considered to be ok here and is allowed. My apologies for stating my opinion. I was only showing support for another of a like mind to myself on this topic.

That being said, I enjoy thhhe forgeworld models and like to see their use for the quality of the sculpting and especially like thehm when they are well painted. Just as I prefer to know beforehand if Im going to see things like a baneblade in a 1,000 point list, or an all knight army, I would also like to know beforehand if I am going to see a titan. In friendly games, this is only common courtesy in my opinion. I can understand bringing that sort of thing to a tourney but then again, going to a tourney, I'm gonna cheese out as well and already take it for granted that I will see them. Of course, this is only my opinion.

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with you. Whenever somebody brings up this topic it's basically bait for a swarm of trolls who go out of their way to try and provoke more anger out of people and it devolves into mudslinging.

See: above.

So make a thread about it in off topic please if you want to continue discussion.

 Orock wrote:
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/X/Tau-XV109.pdf

forgeworld is perfectly balanced guys. And im sure this wont be bait and switch to generate sales and later make it reasonable. I mean 2 ap2 baleflamers and all the goodies this one packs is ok.

"but its experimental!!, No way they would leave it like this, forgeworld is just as cheezy as codex bla bla bla"

The fact they would even test this with these stats, and not change it for months like the rvanna should prove they only care about the money. And if you make the stats garbage later, people will cry bloody murder like that guy who made a huge bait and switch complaint on youtube about the helldrake.

Experimental rules are just so FW can test them with actual players and get feedback.

Everything that turned out to be silly powerful when Experimental was toned way down. Anyone who remembers the rage over the Experimental Land Raider Achilles knows this.

Besides, Experimental rules are never allowed in tournaments so its really no big deal.

 Orock wrote:
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/X/Tau-XV109.pdf

forgeworld is perfectly balanced guys. And im sure this wont be bait and switch to generate sales and later make it reasonable. I mean 2 ap2 baleflamers and all the goodies this one packs is ok.

"but its experimental!!, No way they would leave it like this, forgeworld is just as cheezy as codex bla bla bla"

The fact they would even test this with these stats, and not change it for months like the rvanna should prove they only care about the money. And if you make the stats garbage later, people will cry bloody murder like that guy who made a huge bait and switch complaint on youtube about the helldrake.

Lets go through this.

You cherry pick an experimental unit and complain about how overpowered it is. People point out it's experimental, and that it will likely be toned down, as the R'varna was, as the Caestus was, as the Land Raider Achilles was, etc.

Without a valid balance argument to stand on, you project your own subjective judgement then on what that whole situation stands for. You say it's "FW only cares about money". Well, I'm not sure how you expect a design process to work, but this is a pretty valid approach, and at least they *DO* public testing, unlike core GW.

Lets wait for the rules to get finalized. As is, it looks very powerful, but is exceedingly short ranged for a Tau unit and its weapons don't always complement each other (and it can't split fire). This is exactly why public playtesting is done.

Cherry picking can be done by both "sides" (and usually is). The REAL reasons have already been discussed endlessly with BOTH sides having valid reasons.
.

Well, I'd suggest you to use the known bad stuff from FW to insert your fellas in this new world. Show them that the company does create bad and good units... starting with the bad, they'll probably get some wins and become more confident. Slowly put better units until they're familiar with those. Repeat until they're k ith the ones you want use.

 Frozen Ocean wrote:

 AutarchRion wrote:
Is it possible you could bribe them? A nice juicy McDouble offered to me before a game would leave a smile on my face even if I was playing against Wave Serpents.

Try this approach:

You:"Hey Buddy!! Wanna play a game of 40k?"

Suspicious Opponent: "I dunno man...you kinda raped me last time... what you got?"

This is completely unacceptable language. You are disrespecting something extremely horrific. Rape is not a joke and it is not a gaming term, and I am calling you out on it in-thread because I am sick of having to PM people over this.

off topic: murder is also a serious crime. Nobody feels the need to complain when some says "I dunno man....you kinda murdered my army last time.
On topic: bring a horrible terrible list.then slowly start bringing better units.

Putting my fun little Hornet back on the shelf certainly helps your cause. Perhaps fielding more of my Corsairs will help too.

People keep using the term Forge World as a universal cover-all, it isn't.

There are Apocalypse only rules in Forge World, there are experimental rules, there are 30k/HH lists and rules and then there are straight out '40k approved'.


If something says '40k approved' then that means Forge World's design team, who sit about 150 yards away from the GW design team, have playtested and deemed the unit or army list suitable for the game.

A Forge World '40k approved' rule has as much validity as any supplement, supplemental codex, white dwarf rule, dataslate or anything else beyond the basic codex and rules. It is not some other company's game, it's a GW product and a GW rule.


The 30k lists were designed to fight each other, not 40k lists. I doubt there's anything really stopping you bringing them to a game, but they were designed in a vacuum to battle each other.

Experimental rules are just that, released to the public for free in a beta format, so you all can buy the model, try it, tell FW it's terrible or amazing for various reasons and they can temper it ready for inclusion in the book when the book with the rules comes out.

Apocalypse only speaks for its self.


Forge World tends to overprice the points on their '40k approved' stuff in the main, anyhow, so if someone has spent a small fortune to build a FW army and brought it to the table, let em have at it. I've never seen a FW list that didn't have it's arse handed to it by a codex list over the years at the table.

I think given that Super Heavies are in the main rules, Apocalypse as a separate game type is dead.