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The bigger question is, if I put wych heads on warrior bodies with CCW and pistol, are they passable as Lahmaia?
It gives the 5+ armor appearance while still having the pistol/ccw.

Unit of 9 led by Archon for tanking overwatch?

If nothing else, that unit sure makes the Archon look like a pimp.

I think that would look fine, although I think the Lhaemen specifically are a all female cult. Just ordered some Grotesques myself as well as a 3rd edition Talos, for parts.

Sooooo.....

Does anyone think a Air Calvary army would do well. Like 3 Void Raven bombers , with 3 Raven Wing?

A Tantalus has 16 of transport capacity, this would allow 8 grotesques, they are open topped to so assault vehicules. That unit is about 500pts tho, its not bad but very expensive


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Air cavalry will be an option I think, the DE flyers offer solutions against infantry, heavy infantry, MC AND Vehicules. An d the fact that they can jink on a 3+ makes them very worthwhile I think

Stick an Autarch behind an ADL w/ Comms to get them when you want them.

I'm having a lot of success with my Razorwing Jetfighter in the new dex. Two scythes, two missiles, and splinter cannon hits hard as heck. I think it's an exceptional unit right now. Thoughts?

I think both flyers are and have been extremely underrated for a while now

I'm going to use Bloodbrides in my next match. Maybe with combat drugs they'll get 5 attacks each on the charge or something. And while the Syren seems not worth it at first glance since the squad already has Ld9, she can get 5 (or 6) Agonizer/P-Sword attacks. And Wych weapons cost the same but Brides make better use of them.

They share the slot with Trueborn so it's hard to justify Brides in a competitive list but I'll see if I can pull them off sometime.

mercury14 wrote:
I'm going to use Bloodbrides in my next match. Maybe with combat drugs they'll get 5 attacks each on the charge or something. And while the Syren seems not worth it at first glance since the squad already has Ld9, she can get 5 (or 6) Agonizer/P-Sword attacks. And Wych weapons cost the same but Brides make better use of them.

They share the slot with Trueborn so it's hard to justify Brides in a competitive list but I'll see if I can pull them off sometime.

I was finding a hard time to find a use for trueborn. Blasters are ok, but heatlances and haywire seems so much better. If you really want high strength shooting, allied eldar do it much better (able to run and then shoot, more guns, and better guns), and that's on a platform with 4+ armor, not to vanish when a stock flamer clips the transport.


-Matt

If Trueborn got Haywire blasters they'd be one of the best units in the codex. That would be crazy.

If only.

I ordered raging heros Blood vestrals to use as lameans. Amazing models. I'll be running a full unit of them as well as trying a 8:2 sslyth:lamean mix.

 Red Corsair wrote:
If only.

I ordered raging heros Blood vestrals to use as lameans. Amazing models. I'll be running a full unit of them as well as trying a 8:2 sslyth:lamean mix.

Beautiful models, but doesn't really look like 5+ armor to me, they look far more like wyches.

 HawaiiMatt wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
If only.

I ordered raging heros Blood vestrals to use as lameans. Amazing models. I'll be running a full unit of them as well as trying a 8:2 sslyth:lamean mix.

Beautiful models, but doesn't really look like 5+ armor to me, they look far more like wyches.

True, but on the other hand official Lhamaean model do not seem to be wearing any more armour than wytches either. She basically has an armoured corset and shoulderpads.

I've contemplated a good way to build Lhamaeans, as even if I wouldn't mind the cost, multiples of the same single-pose model just will not do. I'm not sure whether to convert the finecast ones or use something completely different.

 Crimson wrote:

 HawaiiMatt wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
If only.

I ordered raging heros Blood vestrals to use as lameans. Amazing models. I'll be running a full unit of them as well as trying a 8:2 sslyth:lamean mix.

Beautiful models, but doesn't really look like 5+ armor to me, they look far more like wyches.

True, but on the other hand official Lhamaean model do not seem to be wearing any more armour than wytches either. She basically has an armoured corset and shoulderpads.

I've contemplated a good way to build Lhamaeans, as even if I wouldn't mind the cost, multiples of the same single-pose model just will not do. I'm not sure whether to convert the finecast ones or use something completely different.

I'm going to see if I can get some of the 2nd edition DE warriors that had women chests; use current warrior legs, wych heads and arms.
I don't want 10 of the same pose either; and I don't want them to look like wyches, since I will be running wyches as well.

I think that the Dark Elves have some good stand ins for Lhaemen.

What decision making process do you guys go through when arming your Talos? The obvious one is to put the ichor injector on when you are going to be facing monstrous creatures and other multi-wound enemies.

What about the other stuff?

Most survivable unit for leaving everything off the board and going for the 2nd turn w/ Turn manipulation for beta strike?


2 Slyth w/ Venom? (115) (T5 , 4 W)

2 Small Squads of Mandrakes ( take up elites :( )

?????????

I kind of feel like Slyth are the best bet, because even if the transport gets say blown up by a Manticore or whatever, you've still got 4 T5 Wounds Out of LOS.

Hollismason wrote:
Most survivable unit for leaving everything off the board and going for the 2nd turn w/ Turn manipulation for beta strike?


2 Slyth w/ Venom? (115) (T5 , 4 W)

2 Small Squads of Mandrakes ( take up elites :( )

?????????

I kind of feel like Slyth are the best bet, because even if the transport gets say blown up by a Manticore or whatever, you've still got 4 T5 Wounds Out of LOS.

Most survivable? Probably an allied wraith knight, or mandrakes in woods with a farseer casting invisibility, or an archon with a shadow field, invisibility and that spell that gives rerolling saves.

Talos/Cronos pain engines would probably work fine though.

ive been having a discussion with a friend about Dark eldar weaponry and we are disagreeing on somtehing.

I’m seing everyone tripping out on the Haywire Blasters, saying theyre amazing, even though I would agree that against many list they would be very good but as a competive list option I just cant see it since they just aren’t a “take all comers” type of option, there are quite a few no-vehicules or minimal/only flyers vehicules list out there, even in the competitive settings.
To name just a few: Wraiths / Scythespam necron lists, Draigostar + dreadknight GK lists, Riptides + Crisis suits spam tau lists, all of the Tyranids armies and even just the jinking skimmers will be fine being shot at (looking mostly at you waveserpents but also Disruption pod Tau and Nightshield DE). Im seeing people talk about taking 2-3 units of haywire blaster scourge but against any of these lists your just losing 240-360pts before the game even started. At least darklight can hurt(and hurt very well) non-vehicules, I personally would consider the scourges with Blasters instead of Haywire Blasters since they are MUCH more versatile, even if it costs 20pts more per units and they lose 6” of range.

I tried to compare the Haywire effect vs the Darklight effect and Darklight is just so much better in most circumstances.

To start off, against MC of any kind the higher strength and AP makes the difference between a very effective weapon (dark light) and a mostly useless weapon (Haywire).
Same thing for Terminators or even space marines .
The Str8 of Darklight is great against T3-4 multiple wound targets as well for insta-gib potential.

But we all know that this is where the haywire blaster is weak, so lets consider where its strong: against vehicules.
So against AV10: The darklight is still clearly better: same odds of damaging the vehicule but quadrupling the odds of getting a penetrating hit, which also get +1 on the vehicule damage table due to being AP2 .
Against AV11: I would still argue that Darklight is better, sure you double the odds of doing nothing (“1” & “2”) but your still tripling the odds of a penetrating hit with once again the +1 on damage table
Now Against AV12, 13 & 14 is where the Haywire does better: Ok the Darklight triples the odds of doing nothing compared to Haywire but to compensate, it still doubles to odds of getting a penetrating hit with still the +1 to damage table. Now I know that the Haywire is better but, really, its not by a clear margin, having a chance at destroying a vehicule in one hit is nice from the +1 to damage roll and doubling the odds of a pen which accentuates that ability makes it more likely to happen. Sure 50% chance of doing nothing isn’t great but its not bad, especially against a Landraider or Monolith.

So Haywire is clearly worse against EVERYTHING, except AV12,13 & 14 where it a BIT better. Hence I’m not too impressed by Haywire Blaster.

Am I missing something?

I see nothing wrong with taking a unit of Scourges with Haywire, but agree 100% that spamming 3 units is a good way to lose the game.I'd say taking a full 10 man squad of Scourges that way you at least at least have something that can deal with some horde.It's not a take on all comers weapon, I mean what are you going to do if you play against a all bike army that has flyers?ST4 aint that hot against T5, but at least if you had a few more 4 ST4 blasts and 12 Poison 4+ may do something.


as to my earlier best single figure to put on the board with a Beta Strike.

Does everyone think a Wraithknight or a Wraithguard behind a Aegis would be best for a Beta Strike list?

Wraithknight is pretty good for setting up a beta strike. Alternatively a vauls wrath battery of 3 shadow weavers could also be a nice, durable, and cheap option to accomplish this. With the wraithknight you will need to leave something else on the board if your opponent is bringing a grav centstar. Barrage artillery left out of LoS in ruins is almost impossible to remove turn 1.

Another alternative is to take two waveserpents with holofields and put them in each corners to start off with. This will make most opponents want to close on at least one of them as serpents are ridiculously hard to kill at 36"+ range. If they close this will leave the opponent out of position once the beta strike comes in. If they ignore them then serpent shields can pound away.

IMO MSU armies like DE can afford to take cheap ~100 pts units that have little effect against some opponents while being fantastic against others. In the case of haywire scourges this is important as one of the current top tier competitive units is Imperial Knights which they are a real threat against. Their major weakness is also somewhat mitigated (MC and high toughness) by the rest of the army having poison shooting and AP2 Str8 weapons being very easy to get in other places, ie blasters and lances on warriors, true born, and reavers, also can be put on raiders and come on Razorwing Jetfighter, pretty much all of which are either good, mandatory if not taking wyches, or great units.

If you're really so sold on S8 AP2, ally in some hornets. They're not lances, but AV13 and AV14 are where haywire blasters shine anyway.

I bet you'll find those shots are a lot more survivable at 48" range, too.

hornets?

Hornets are an Eldar Fast Attack choice from Imperial Armour Apocalypse (3rd edition).

They're a 2HP AV{11-11-10} fast skimmer. They look like a cross between a Wave Serpent and a Venom. The most common loadout fits a pair of pulse lasers, and costs 80 points for the privilege.

They get a couple USRs on top of that, but that's the gist.

as for beta strike units on the board I would just go for a bunch of 5man mandrakes units, you can hide them well and in any kind of cover they are really tough,

On this note maybe adding a tough character to them could make them even stickier, a fun idea me and my friend were workng on was Allied Karandras joinning a full unit of Mandrakes as he is also infiltrate so can join them, they give him Shrouding and bodies, he gives them assault grenades and a 2+ArSv in case the opponent has ignore cover.


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wow, hornets seem pretty awesome, for 80pts you get 4 bightlance shot at 48" range?! on a fast skimmer (moving 12" and still shooting all guns and jink possibilities) thats amazing

While you're on the subject of moving and jinking, they actually get an ability that lets them snap fire while turbo-boosting. And they get star engines, so...

They're not lances, though. They're just S8 AP2. If you want to hunt AV14, you'll need another weapon profile. Guess which one I suggest?

I think that Vaul's Weapons batteries may not be a good choice against Alpha Strike lists.That's the big problem, I mean you need the 2nd turn of Game turn 1. A Alpha Striking Drop Pod list could kill a Weapon Battery pretty easily.

Although...

Vauls Weapon Batter x 3
Aegis Defense line w/ Comm

160 is a pretty good deal...


Has anyone thought of purposefully manipulating the game to "start" on turn 3 with a Comm Relay and a Autarch?
I know it sounds nuts ,but when you think about it what's the turn that everything changes? Turn 3 everything get's feel no pain. More if you consider turn manipulation.

Of course they get 2 full turns to get to you.

 fartherthanfar wrote:

So Haywire is clearly worse against EVERYTHING, except AV12,13 & 14 where it a BIT better. Hence I’m not too impressed by Haywire Blaster.

Am I missing something?

3 Things.

1) The extra 6" of range isn't much, but going from within 18 to within 24 means you're a hell of a lot more survivable.
2) 20 points per unit cheaper is often 40-60 points in an army. It adds up.
3) Synergy. If you shouldn't take haywire because lots of people mech up, then you shouldn't take venoms, because lots of people do.

The DE army oozes anti-infantry shooting. Have a few units dedicated tank hunters doesn't hurt.
If an opponent shows up with no armor at all, I will accept that my scourge will be spending 120 points to dump out 3 poison shots and 4 S4 shots. And then grin as I unload the other ~100 to 200 poison shots.

I agree about Haywires, although I don't think there is much AV10-11 in the game at really where the lances are going to be better picks, I think it's more about the cost of opportunity in takening a 200 pt unit that effectively has a suicide tank nuke role. This will never trade well with transports, and in an ObSec transport heavy meta, I just don't like them. I think Reavers are the optimal choice, maybe a unit or two of Blasterborn deepstriking.


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Also, I think people are skimping on the anti-infantry, splinter weaponry is pretty mediocre vs T4 and under, some CC units or flyers or Dissie Ravagers are highly underappreciated


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What are people finding is the best Court composition?

Hollismason wrote:
I think that Vaul's Weapons batteries may not be a good choice against Alpha Strike lists.That's the big problem, I mean you need the 2nd turn of Game turn 1. A Alpha Striking Drop Pod list could kill a Weapon Battery pretty easily.

What exactly is eating through 12 T7 wounds that can GtG in ruins and start out of LoS? Even a grav centstar needs to get ignore cover and manage to get LoS to do it.

Hollismason wrote:
Vauls Weapon Batter x 3
Aegis Defense line w/ Comm

160 is a pretty good deal...

It definitely is. This is my common setup for reserves base armies for both eldar and imperial armies (different artillery of course).

Hollismason wrote:
Has anyone thought of purposefully manipulating the game to "start" on turn 3 with a Comm Relay and a Autarch?
I know it sounds nuts ,but when you think about it what's the turn that everything changes? Turn 3 everything get's feel no pain. More if you consider turn manipulation.

Of course they get 2 full turns to get to you.

I think this could have some major utility. Just put the right units on the board at the right time. This can also help keep your paper mache flyers alive as you can ensure they come on after you kill the quad gun or after the opponent's flyers. I am a real believer that the DE army plays better by not fighting until turn 2-3. Though with the addition of the covens tables for the haemies this is a bit less of an issue.

Yeah I'm trying to figure out adding the Vaul Weapon Support Battery to this list..

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/621500.page


I buy build armies usually I'll do like 500 to 1000 points a time so I like to have a army to play.