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If you don't mind allying in, some Crimson Hunters can help you out

I really got the feeling we were written as a supporting actor to the Eldar codex this last go around, anyway.

As to grotesques. I like running the Grotesquerie from the covens book, full strength, with a tooled up coven heamy.

Tough as nails to kill, and the coven PFP chart is fun.

I could do that. Just curious on why you like the Crimson Hunter over the Razorwing?

 Ascalam wrote:

Tough as nails to kill, and the coven PFP chart is fun.

I wish my Grotesques were tough as nails to kill.

So which is better:

Grotesquerie in Raiders (just bare 3 man)

or

Archon with webway, 6 Grotesque and Farseer.

I will be supporting either one with 4 Venoms, 3 Ravager, and 2 Wraithknight.

Incognito15 wrote:
So which is better:

Grotesquerie in Raiders (just bare 3 man)

or

Archon with webway, 6 Grotesque and Farseer.

I will be supporting either one with 4 Venoms, 3 Ravager, and 2 Wraithknight.

Probs Grotesquire, although there was a recent Batrep a few pages back where someone had two units of 10 Grotesques with WWP Haemonculi for a large footprint.


Has anyone tried using Harlequin allies? I am stuck on whether to take the Warriors of the Laughing God or the Greater Good Support Cadre for allies

Everytime I used Grots they been really good, tho I havent used them against IG new book.

I take them in Large numbers with a Haemi DS'ing, via wwp, I love the idea of 6-8 Grots Landing in front then having Radiers/venoms/scourges/bikes right behind.

The Opponent will either HAVE to do 1 of 3 things...

1) Move away (moving out of position into a place I like and pre set up due to Venoms/scourges/bikes)
2) Shoot them and try to kill them (Means My Vehicles , scourges and Bikes are all free from being shot at)
3) Ignore them and kill other stuff (means I get to charge next turn)

I dont know how Comp it is, but I find it very fun.

Archon - Shadowfield, Webway Portal, Haywire Grenade, Huskblade

5x Warriors - Venom
5x Warriors - Venom

6x Grotesque
3x Grotesque - Raider
3x Grotesque - Raider

Venom
Venom
Venom
6x Reavers - 2x Blaster
6x Reavers - 2x Blaster
Razorwing Jetfighter

3x Ravager

How does that look? I am really excited to try it out.

Looks shooty but I think you could do with some more Anti Tank maybe take a Squad of Scourges instead of two Venoms, also who's in the Venoms?

Venoms (except for the 2 w the troop warriors) are fast attack. Sadly Dark Eldar always struggle vs tank.

Was looking at it and I think I need to drop a venom for a haemonculus so I can take a Grotesquerie. Fearless will be big as they will fail their pinning checks as soon as their Raiders are blown up.

I have not had much luck with Scourge they are a lot of points for what they do.

You are correct about the Grotesquerie. If you're going to take Grots (and you should!), ALWAYS take them from the Covens supplement or else you're wasting 1/3 of your PfP turn benefits.

As for your list, I like it, but I do agree that if you're running RSR, another Razorwing or two units of Scourges would be helpful, to boost your AT. When it comes DE, if one is good, two are better.

If you're not fond of Scourges, I'd go with another Razorwing then.

What would you guys recommend to drop to fit the points?

Should I Drop the 6 man grot (not from the grotesquerie) for a flyer and....?

You should give your Archon a Soul Trap.

Get rid of all of the Raiders for the Grotesques, take the Grotesquerie

6 Grotesques

3 Grotesques
w/ Raider

3 Grotesques
w/ Raider

= 530 points


Grotesquire

6 Grotesques

6 Grotesques

Haemonoculus w/ Webway Portal

= 525

You could drop points on the Grotesques to having them be 5 man each then equip the Haemonoculus up with more gear 1 Grotesque less would do it.

Now their all fearless and you have two grot bombs.

Also, give your Archon a Soul Trap if he has a Huskblade. He also apparently has no items from the Artefacts of Cruelty, stick him with the Armour of Misery, if he fails the Shadow Field he still has a invulnerable save.

So I think I have my final list for an upcoming tournament.

Archon - Webway Portal, Shadowfield, Huskblade, Haywire Grenade
Venom - Splinter Cannon

5x Warriors - Blaster
Venom - Splinter Cannon
5x Warriors
Venom - Splinter Cannon

8x Trueborn - 2x Dark Lance

Venom - Splinter Cannon
6x Reavers - 2x Blaster
6x Reavers - 2x Blaster
Razorwing Jetfighter - 2x Dark Lances

3x Ravager - 3x Dark Lance

Grotesquerie

Haemonculus - Webway Portal

5x Grotesque
5x Grotesque

Incognito15 wrote:
I could do that. Just curious on why you like the Crimson Hunter over the Razorwing?

Could just be personal preference, but i like the high strength accurate firepower over the low strength massed firepower of the Razorwing.

Razorwings are great for crowd control, but i prefer to have a crimson hunter exarch to cover my bets if other folk are bringing flyers. Lot of Necrons and flying nids in my area :(

Incognito15 wrote:
So I think I have my final list for an upcoming tournament.

Archon - Webway Portal, Shadowfield, Huskblade, Haywire Grenade
Venom - Splinter Cannon

5x Warriors - Blaster
Venom - Splinter Cannon
5x Warriors
Venom - Splinter Cannon

8x Trueborn - 2x Dark Lance

Venom - Splinter Cannon
6x Reavers - 2x Blaster
6x Reavers - 2x Blaster
Razorwing Jetfighter - 2x Dark Lances

3x Ravager - 3x Dark Lance

Grotesquerie

Haemonculus - Webway Portal

5x Grotesque
5x Grotesque

A few points:

- Why the Archon? It seems that a Succubus with Glaive would be much more useful. Grotesques already have ID weapons (making the Huskblade rather redundant), but they're very lacking in AP2. Unless I'm wrong and the Archon isn't going with them. But, in that case, what on earth is he doing?

- You might want to consider giving your Haemonculus Sindriq's Sump, so that he won't slow the Grotesques down if they roll Fleet.

- With regard to the Grotesques themselves, is WWP really the best route to take? It seems that removing a grotesque from each squad and starting them in Raiders would be better - as you can actually assault out of them. I'd also recommend Aberrations (with Scissorhands if you have the points) - mainly to accept challenges for your characters, though they can also help against vehicles.

- I'd want Cluster Caltrops on Reavers - not Blasters. If you want to use the blasters, then you have to forfeit the Reaver's main defence (Jinking for a 3++ save). Also, Blasters aren't a great weapon to begin with. If you really must have a ranged weapon, I'd suggest the Heat Lance for being cheaper and giving you a melta weapon. But, Cluster Caltrops would still be my first choice.

- Are you using the Realspace Raiders detachment for this list? I can only assume so since you've using 4 FA slots, but... ugh. I'd seriously try to put that Venom elsewhere so that you can use a proper CAD.

- Have you got no other way to get more Dark Lances than that truebron squad? No Ravager or something you could add? It just seems like the least efficient way to get 2 Dark Lance shots. It might be better to either give them Blasters and give them that empty venom as a dedicated transport. Or, perhaps just get 2 more Warrior squads in Venoms with a blaster each. One can have the empty venom, and (if your HQ is going with the Grotesques) the other squad can have his Venom.

 Gamerely wrote:
How do you guys feel about Dark Eldar placing in the bottom 5 of the recent LVO Tournament? I'm just starting Dark Eldar and... I kind of like it... I like being niche.

Last dex we were on the weaker scale (outside of allies) but with a very unique playstyle and feel to the army. This dex we are just weak, and much more standardised. Not a change I'm a big fan of to be quite honest, there was a lot more flavor in the last dex

 SHUPPET wrote:

 Gamerely wrote:
How do you guys feel about Dark Eldar placing in the bottom 5 of the recent LVO Tournament? I'm just starting Dark Eldar and... I kind of like it... I like being niche.

Last dex we were on the weaker scale (outside of allies) but with a very unique playstyle and feel to the army. This dex we are just weak, and much more standardised. Not a change I'm a big fan of to be quite honest, there was a lot more flavor in the last dex

i didnt play last dex, but imo it seemed more that the unique playstyle and feel was more to do with having little other viable styles, combined with a very outdated codex. I think this dex offers the ability to use much more of the available units. I agree that some flavour was lost with the loss of some interesting special characters.

cant comment on strength, but then its not like GW ever aim for balance it seems. With the strength of the latest necron dex as an example.

 SHUPPET wrote:

 Gamerely wrote:
How do you guys feel about Dark Eldar placing in the bottom 5 of the recent LVO Tournament? I'm just starting Dark Eldar and... I kind of like it... I like being niche.

Last dex we were on the weaker scale (outside of allies) but with a very unique playstyle and feel to the army. This dex we are just weak, and much more standardised. Not a change I'm a big fan of to be quite honest, there was a lot more flavor in the last dex

IMO ALOT of the new nerfs was just pointless.... Look at Ravagers vs Other 110-125 Pt tanks.... no need for the increase in points. Look at a Falcom, 2 shot S8 ap 2 at 48" on AV12 that can get TL guns or a 3rd S8 AP2 with a Transport of 6.

Then there is Haywire Grenades being MUCH harder to get, yes we have s8 lance... but it takes WAY to much to kill anything. S8 isnt good AT. it takes 9 Dark Lances to kill 1 AV12 vehicle if they get 0 Saves, with a 4+ jink or a 5+ cover that goes up to 15+ lances for 1 AV 12 Vehicle. IMO the old book over all was more powerful, AT on Bikes/scourges make it a much more Glass Cannon style army.

If you want DE to be Highly Competitive you need to Ally in Eldar, Fire Dragons, D-scythes, Autarch, Crimson Hunter etc... At that point your no longer DE.

 Amishprn86 wrote:

IMO ALOT of the new nerfs was just pointless.... Look at Ravagers vs Other 110-125 Pt tanks.... no need for the increase in points.

Agreed.

What's worse is that they also removed the Ravager's ability to move 12" and fire all 3 guns at full BS. You know, the ability that's key to the DE's entire theme.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Then there is Haywire Grenades being MUCH harder to get, yes we have s8 lance... but it takes WAY to much to kill anything. S8 isnt good AT. it takes 9 Dark Lances to kill 1 AV12 vehicle if they get 0 Saves, with a 4+ jink or a 5+ cover that goes up to 15+ lances for 1 AV 12 Vehicle.

Yeah, I was really disappointed that Dark Lances and Blasters got no buffs whatsoever (not to mention staying insanely expensive).

Solar Shock wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:

 Gamerely wrote:
How do you guys feel about Dark Eldar placing in the bottom 5 of the recent LVO Tournament? I'm just starting Dark Eldar and... I kind of like it... I like being niche.

Last dex we were on the weaker scale (outside of allies) but with a very unique playstyle and feel to the army. This dex we are just weak, and much more standardised. Not a change I'm a big fan of to be quite honest, there was a lot more flavor in the last dex

i didnt play last dex, but imo it seemed more that the unique playstyle and feel was more to do with having little other viable styles, combined with a very outdated codex. I think this dex offers the ability to use much more of the available units. I agree that some flavour was lost with the loss of some interesting special characters.

cant comment on strength, but then its not like GW ever aim for balance it seems. With the strength of the latest necron dex as an example.

I disagree, I think there was many more playstyles in the last dex than there is in this one, it's all pretty standardised now

The old codex also didn't charge me an extra £30 to use some playstyles...

 vipoid wrote:

Incognito15 wrote:
So I think I have my final list for an upcoming tournament.

Archon - Webway Portal, Shadowfield, Huskblade, Haywire Grenade
Venom - Splinter Cannon

5x Warriors - Blaster
Venom - Splinter Cannon
5x Warriors
Venom - Splinter Cannon

8x Trueborn - 2x Dark Lance

Venom - Splinter Cannon
6x Reavers - 2x Blaster
6x Reavers - 2x Blaster
Razorwing Jetfighter - 2x Dark Lances

3x Ravager - 3x Dark Lance

Grotesquerie

Haemonculus - Webway Portal

5x Grotesque
5x Grotesque

A few points:

- Why the Archon? It seems that a Succubus with Glaive would be much more useful. Grotesques already have ID weapons (making the Huskblade rather redundant), but they're very lacking in AP2. Unless I'm wrong and the Archon isn't going with them. But, in that case, what on earth is he doing?

- You might want to consider giving your Haemonculus Sindriq's Sump, so that he won't slow the Grotesques down if they roll Fleet.

- With regard to the Grotesques themselves, is WWP really the best route to take? It seems that removing a grotesque from each squad and starting them in Raiders would be better - as you can actually assault out of them. I'd also recommend Aberrations (with Scissorhands if you have the points) - mainly to accept challenges for your characters, though they can also help against vehicles.

- I'd want Cluster Caltrops on Reavers - not Blasters. If you want to use the blasters, then you have to forfeit the Reaver's main defence (Jinking for a 3++ save). Also, Blasters aren't a great weapon to begin with. If you really must have a ranged weapon, I'd suggest the Heat Lance for being cheaper and giving you a melta weapon. But, Cluster Caltrops would still be my first choice.

- Are you using the Realspace Raiders detachment for this list? I can only assume so since you've using 4 FA slots, but... ugh. I'd seriously try to put that Venom elsewhere so that you can use a proper CAD.

- Have you got no other way to get more Dark Lances than that truebron squad? No Ravager or something you could add? It just seems like the least efficient way to get 2 Dark Lance shots. It might be better to either give them Blasters and give them that empty venom as a dedicated transport. Or, perhaps just get 2 more Warrior squads in Venoms with a blaster each. One can have the empty venom, and (if your HQ is going with the Grotesques) the other squad can have his Venom.

I agree with the Archon. It will be a Succubus.

Thanks I never noticed Syndrics Pump. Good investment.

I am strugging with how to use Grotesques. WWP or Raiders probably will come down to a coin flip.

Never used Cluster Caltrops but I will. Switched them out.

Fit everything into a CAD. (revised list will be posted later)

No. Sadly I am maxing out my DE collection. I already have three Ravagers. Dont own any Scourge. And Trueborn in Venom I always feel like I am wasting the Venom because it has to get close and dies immediately. My other thought is tournament will be pure Maelstrom so an objective sitter isnt the worst thing.

Thanks for the help.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Revised List:

Succubus - Archite Glaive, Haywire Grenade

(3x) 5x Warriors - Venom - Splinter Cannon

7x Trueborn - 2x Dark Lance - Venom - Splinter Cannon

(2x) 6x Reavers - 2x Cluster Caltrops
Razorwing Jetfighter - 2x Dark Lances

(3x) Ravager - 3x Dark Lance

Grotesquerie

Haemonculus - Syndrics Sump

4x Grotesque - Aberration - Raider w/ Dark Lance
4x Grotesque - Aberration - Raider w/ Dark Lance

I agree somewhat with allying to be competitive - I find myself adding a Firebase Support Cadre to every list for good AA and AT (with Scourge and soon to be Reapers)

How many points does a Firebase Support Cadre take up?

How about a necron ally. The deathbringer flight lets you take 2 to 4 Doom Scythes. S10 AP1 blast, lance is about as good as you can get at vehicle busting outside of Destroyer weapons. Also packing telsa, these guys can double duty as air-to-air. Finally, they can bubble a -1 Ld, which is nice to combine with all the DE Leadership stuff.

-Matt

Incognito15 wrote:
How many points does a Firebase Support Cadre take up?

My current set up is 710 and consists of 4 EWO Missilesides, 2 Target Lock (so I can target three units a turn) and then Riptide w. IA, SMS and EWO. I find Stim packs not that good, unless you run double Riptide.

Doombringer flight could be interesting. I have two Scythes that need building. I'm not too sure how it would work w/ Come the Apocalypse Allies (and the Ld hurts DE too). There's just something about 24 TL S7 shots with Tank hunters that makes me think Firebase would be better for AT and AA (leave AV13/14 to Haywire Scourge and Reapers).

I think both the crimson hunter and razorwing are good at AA. The razorwing is arguably better at AA against FMC, and the crimson hunter is better at AA against flyers.

I tend to see more FMC than flyer spam so the Razorwing tends to see more play.

I think the thing to remember is in a list with 3 flyrants for example, your opponent has invested 780 pts into FMC, in a 5 flyrant list you are looking at a little over 1200pts in FMC. Unless you are bringing at least half as many points in flyers yourself, theres not much point as they can jink the few targets you fire at and then probably wipe you out even if you do jink next round.

Also certain formats [cough ITC/LVO] have changed the rules on how FMC work so they are immune to blasts/templates/auto hit. So missiles which normally RAW work against them, have no effect, as does the upgraded disintegrator cannon on voidravens for example, and the wraithfighter, as well as immunity to blasts that would incidentally normally scatter onto FMC and affect them under the rules in the rulebook.

I find splinter raiders with splinter racks can do good against FMC, but if the FMC has e-grubs or a template weapon the outcome if you do not kill the FMC is not pretty.

Oh yeah, deffo. In my list I've got 3 Venoms w/ Kabalite Warriors and 2 Raiders w/ Splinter Racks, Nightshields and 10x Kabalite Warriors. I'm tempted to get behind it and fire, so it has to glide to come and shoot (and therefore be vulnerable to everything in the army).

 vipoid wrote:
The old codex also didn't charge me an extra £30 to use some playstyles...

Ahh the sad story there is.... once they realised they could.... why wouldn't they? Suppliments, formations... its all $$$. I mean, look at it in general... staggered releases.... units before dex.... Suppliments at the same time as dex releases.... formations in other books released weeks later. Lets not kind ourselves, each of those is aimed at maximising product sales in pretty much every way

Gota get my fix! one way or another!

That firebase support cadre does sound pretty damn useful! also pretty effective for other armies and not only anything with lots of fliers, i mean EWO works on DSing troops and drop pods right?