From the Void- Dark Eldar Tactica for 7th Codex

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**vipoid**

DaKKaLAnce wrote:
Did you forget that DE bikes have the same rules? DE can also move 2d6" in the assalt phase.

Which helps them far less if they want to get into combat.

DaKKaLAnce wrote:

Also playing DE takes some tactics. Im not chasing the Bikes across the map with raiders...With the speed DE have, you can easily trap/corner the eldar to get close enough to another raider, it is all about position.

How are these raiders all still alive? How many turns do you seriously think they'll live?

DaKKaLAnce wrote:

You are so worried about the Scatter lasers, you are overreacting about them.

No, I am being honest. If you think we're fine against that degree of mobile firepower, then you're delusional.

DaKKaLAnce wrote:
Just like in the pass, There will be a counter.

You have yet to name anything even remotely resembling a counter.

DaKKaLAnce wrote:
All you have to do is fight fire with fire and the reavers can easily kill the windriders you are so worried about.

6 Eldar jet bikes (162pts) vs 10 reavers (160pts)

The eldar jetbikes shoot first (having 12" of range over the reavers). 24 shots, 16 hits, 13.33 wounds. If the reavers jink, that's 4.5 reavers dead. If they don't jink, that's 8.9 reavers dead.

So, either you lose 9/10 reavers or else you lost around half, and have negligible firepower to retaliate with.

But, I'm sure you'll want dark eldar to strike first (because obviously you're fighting brain-dead eldar players and will somehow get the jump on him even when his units are just as mobile, but with +12" range).

So, let's try that.

10 shots, 6.7 hits, 3.3 wounds, 1.1 dead eldar. The remaining 5 eldar shoot back, dealing 11 wounds - 3.7 if jinking, 7.4 if not.

Either way, the remaining reavers are unlikely to inflict even a single casualty back.

DaKKaLAnce wrote:

Field MSU of the reavers, all you need is one of them to get into assault and you have them trapped. learn to work around cut n paste units, a good tactic can go a long way.

How many detachments are you fielding to get all these reavers?

Frozocrone wrote:
Would Razorwings work? Off the board T1 and Missiles are 48" range and large blast so sure to cause lots of wounds, even if Ap5...

Could be our best bet, though I seriously pity whatever's left on the field in the meantime.

**Jimsolo**

Uh, what did I miss? How are the new Eldar Jetbikes getting a 36" range on every bike?

**BlaxicanX**

Scatter-lasers have 36'' range.

Every model in a Windrider jetbike squad can take a scatter-laser (or shuriken cannon) for 10ppm.

It's funny because an 8-man squad of Reavers will put ~4 glances on a 3+ save Raider, so for 1080 points you can take 5 squads of 8 WJB's and wipe out 5 raiders a turn. From 48'' away. And there's nothing you can do to stop it beyond hiding behind BLOS or null-deployment.

Even if the Dark Eldar player goes first, he won't even be in range to do anything because warriors in a raider have a maximum threat range of 30''. So if the Eldar player sets up a gunline at 40'' away, the majority of your firepower isn't going to be able to do anything. You'd have to rely on lances.

**Jimsolo**

Huh. What's the source for that rumor? Other than a mention of twin linking and scatter lasers, the master page for the Eldar rumor thread doesn't have ANY rumors up relating to rules.

**BlaxicanX**

It's not a rumor anymore, iirc the profile for the unit is in the latest WD. I'll see if I can find the scan someone posted.

edit- Here ya go.

**Jimsolo**

I wonder if the Scatter Laser profile is going to significantly change. Any word on whether they will still be troops or not?

**BlaxicanX**

Scatter-lasers are strength 6 ap6, heavy 4 with 36'' range. They no longer have laser-lock.

Windriders are a troops choice.

**Jimsolo**

Sweet. Troop tax to get a Farseer into my DE lists just got way better!

But yes, it sounds like trying to outshoot them with Reavers would be a silly way to go. Deep striking gunboats, Psychic Shriek in negative lead bubbles, or flanking monstrous creatures seem like the ways to go. They are definitely a high priority target.

**BlaxicanX**

Yeah, it's a great time to play an Eldar /w Dark Eldar allies or vice-versa list.

... not so much if you want to play straight Dark Eldar. Though I guess at this point we're actually pretty used to standing in older brother's shadow.

**SarisKhan**

I bring an allied Eldar detachment to my DE army in order to spice it up to competitive levels. Jetseer, Windriders and a Wraithknight. Seems that with the upcoming changes they're going to be even more of a buff.

1-2 units of 3 Scatriders and a sword-wielding WK should be really competitive but not excessive. Divination Jetseer to cast Prescience and other helpful spells. Blaster Archon in a Venom, 4x Raider Gunboats with NS, 2x RWJF with DLs, NS and Necrotoxin Missiles as the DE core. Seems pretty well-equipped to counter Imperial Knights, Bikers and Wolfstars. I won't win the local tournaments but should be able to get a place in the first 10.

**lessthanjeff**

Any chances the windriders will be bumped to a 4+ save? That would make me feel a little more comfortable about facing large groups of them.

I am concerned for the havoc they will wreak against my vehicle heavy lists. I suspect my coven lists will also struggle against them because of the ease with which they can put wounds on grotesques and still outmaneuver them.

**Vaeleria**

I honestly can't wait to test different approaches against those Jet-Bikes. I'm rather fired up to find a solution, than being scared or frustrated already.

I'll let you guys know how it worked

**Lord Commissar**

Its interesting how the wave serpents have been replaced by something with even more weight of fire.

As dark eldar players, they definitely give our skimmers some trouble by having an amazing wave of s6 fire. However, its not fundamentally different from facing the ignore cover waveserpent. Essentially the serpents s6 shots twinlinked, followed by s7 ignore shots is approximately the same amount of threat as the non-twin linked jetbikes that dont ignore cover, but have more shots.

So, the answer is, the same as before. Did you ever win versus waveserpent spam anyways?

The wraithknight is basically a slap to the face though. Basically immune to poison. Only way we can deal with that is our own allied in D weapons.

**Trystis**

Lord Commissar wrote:
The wraithknight is basically a slap to the face though. Basically immune to poison. Only way we can deal with that is our own allied in D weapons.

Allied harlequins also have some ok weapons against wraithknights like neural disrupters, caresses, and several of the psychic powers the Shadowseers can access.

I wonder if we will get to take cluster caltrops on each of our jet bikes in the future.

**vipoid**

Trystis wrote:

I wonder if we will get to take cluster caltrops on each of our jet bikes in the future.

I wondered if we might be allowed rules like 'skyfire' or 'ignores cover' or even 'twin-linked'. I wondered if our vehicles and troops might be allowed weapons that aren't just 'dark lances' and 'more dark lances'.

Considering the answers to these, I really wouldn't get your hopes up. Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if our next "codex" is released as an Eldar supplement.

**Ascalam**

We have twin-linked. I use it a lot due to playing Covens as my main army.

You can find it on the Talos Pain Engine

More twin-linked would be very nice though.

Something skyfire that isn't a flyer would be good. More haywire weapons/Heat lance style weapons would be good.

**vipoid**

Ascalam wrote:
We have twin-linked. I use it a lot due to playing Covens as my main army.

You can find it on the Talos Pain Engine

More twin-linked would be very nice though.

Something skyfire that isn't a flyer would be good. More haywire weapons/Heat lance style weapons would be good.

I'd really like it if warriors and trueborn could take heat lances and haywire blasters.

**DaKKaLAnce**

Real space raider detachment.

Use Reavers to harrass Windriders, Make sure raiders & friends follow or stay back slightly behind to allow bikes to pressure windriders into force shooting bikes. First turn jink like there is no tomorrow, anyone who actually has enough experience with DE will know the save will help you limit the damage you take.

5 Squads seems about right for normal spam list , so make sure you try to do the same or just have atleast 4 max. The eldar player wont be able to kill all the threats in his face if you rush him. He would have to split his fire and focus on bikes or raiders.
If he kills the raiders? cool, more than likely my bikes will be in his fice turn 1 after the bikes more 12"-flatout and 2d6". if he goes first? well still wouldnt change much, just be sure to position the bikes up front and raiders back, make it to where if he wants to shoot the raiders he will have to put himself closer to the reavers threat range.

Having a ravager without DL might not be a bad idea. Shoot those bikes with 9 str5 ap 2 shots will make him want to jink if he cares about those bikes, making them less effective later.

you can math hammer all you want, but any exp player will know math hammer is not always right. you either roll well or you dont. DE is not a cut n paste team, they are a Finesses team. Treat them right, and they will return the favor.

If you arent able to pull this off well, then DE might not be the team for you: /

Hell even having harlies would be a great idea, they can make great support for DE

**vipoid**

DaKKaLAnce wrote:
Real space raider detachment.

Use Reavers to harrass Windriders, Make sure raiders & friends follow or stay back slightly behind to allow bikes to pressure windriders into force shooting bikes. First turn jink like there is no tomorrow, anyone who actually has enough experience with DE will know the save will help you limit the damage you take.

5 Squads seems about right for normal spam list , so make sure you try to do the same or just have atleast 4 max. The eldar player wont be able to kill all the threats in his face if you rush him. He would have to split his fire and focus on bikes or raiders.

Well, the eldar player can easily wipe out 5 units of jinking bikes, then move back out of range of the raider passengers.

Or, even if the Raiders passengers get to shoot him at long range, the damage you'll inflict will be pitiful in comparison - and you'll then spend your next turn removing raiders.

DaKKaLAnce wrote:

you can math hammer all you want, but any exp player will know math hammer is not always right. you either roll well or you dont. DE is not a cut n paste team, they are a Finesses team. Treat them right, and they will return the favor.

Sigh, this nonsense argument again.

The fact that dice don't always come up averages doesn't mean that you get to dismiss math out of hand.

If your strategy revolves around getting much better luck than your opponent, not only are DE not the army for you, but you need to seriously rethink your tactics.

**HawaiiMatt**

Vaeleria wrote:
I honestly can't wait to test different approaches against those Jet-Bikes. I'm rather fired up to find a solution, than being scared or frustrated already.

I'll let you guys know how it worked

Don't over-look really cheap beast packs.
Fast enough to catch the bikes, cheap enough that if the eldar fires on them, they are over-killing the target. Never leave a slot left open.

**vipoid**

What sort of cheap beast units are you thinking of?

**SarisKhan**

vipoid wrote:
What sort of cheap beast units are you thinking of?

Presumably Khymerae.

**DaKKaLAnce**

vipoid wrote:
DaKKaLAnce wrote:
Real space raider detachment.

Use Reavers to harrass Windriders, Make sure raiders & friends follow or stay back slightly behind to allow bikes to pressure windriders into force shooting bikes. First turn jink like there is no tomorrow, anyone who actually has enough experience with DE will know the save will help you limit the damage you take.

5 Squads seems about right for normal spam list , so make sure you try to do the same or just have atleast 4 max. The eldar player wont be able to kill all the threats in his face if you rush him. He would have to split his fire and focus on bikes or raiders.

Well, the eldar player can easily wipe out 5 units of jinking bikes, then move back out of range of the raider passengers.

Or, even if the Raiders passengers get to shoot him at long range, the damage you'll inflict will be pitiful in comparison - and you'll then spend your next turn removing raiders.

DaKKaLAnce wrote:

you can math hammer all you want, but any exp player will know math hammer is not always right. you either roll well or you dont. DE is not a cut n paste team, they are a Finesses team. Treat them right, and they will return the favor.

Sigh, this nonsense argument again.

The fact that dice don't always come up averages doesn't mean that you get to dismiss math out of hand.

If your strategy revolves around getting much better luck than your opponent, not only are DE not the army for you, but you need to seriously rethink your tactics.

My tactics have been very effective. If you dont try then you will never learn. You are going based off assumption and a slight guess off probability.

This tactic will work well, and has worked for me when it comes to rushing a shooty army. Try it out, and you will be surprised how well a 3+ jink save can absorb fire. The Ravager with 3 dissy would also help with the bikes, they would either jink or just loose a bunch of bikes. You are wanting a point and shoot option with no strat, im sorry but you will not have much luck against an army that can match you in speed and firepower. Playing against eldar is putting your archon skills to the limit.

Judging from your previous post, you arent the type to use tactics that require you to think outside the box. Maybe playing another army might be a good idea for you.

Mushykilla has lot of tips for using deployment, objective placement, terrain, etc. to give you the advantage in a battle. The counters are there, you just have to know how to use them.

**HawaiiMatt**

vipoid wrote:
DaKKaLAnce wrote:
Real space raider detachment.

Use Reavers to harrass Windriders, Make sure raiders & friends follow or stay back slightly behind to allow bikes to pressure windriders into force shooting bikes. First turn jink like there is no tomorrow, anyone who actually has enough experience with DE will know the save will help you limit the damage you take.

5 Squads seems about right for normal spam list , so make sure you try to do the same or just have atleast 4 max. The eldar player wont be able to kill all the threats in his face if you rush him. He would have to split his fire and focus on bikes or raiders.

Well, the eldar player can easily wipe out 5 units of jinking bikes, then move back out of range of the raider passengers.

Or, even if the Raiders passengers get to shoot him at long range, the damage you'll inflict will be pitiful in comparison - and you'll then spend your next turn removing raiders.

They key is to run too many small units. Accept that most will die.
2 formations gives you 12 fast attack choices, and possibly 4 webway portals landing with multiple S4 AP3 templates.
I run my bikes in groups of 3. Always jinks. Jinking doesn't impact your D6 S6 rending HoW or your 2S4 Rending HoW. At 61 points, and 3+ jink, they are exceptionally survivable for the cost.

I think DE are going to have the least trouble with eldar bikes. We've got better speed and cheaper MSU than anyone else.

**DaKKaLAnce**

HawaiiMatt wrote:

They key is to run too many small units. Accept that most will die.
2 formations gives you 12 fast attack choices, and possibly 4 webway portals landing with multiple S4 AP3 templates.
I run my bikes in groups of 3. Always jinks. Jinking doesn't impact your D6 S6 rending HoW or your 2S4 Rending HoW. At 61 points, and 3+ jink, they are exceptionally survivable for the cost.

I think DE are going to have the least trouble with eldar bikes. We've got better speed and cheaper MSU than anyone else.

I completely agree. That is why im not too worried about the bikes as others seem to be. The only real threat would be the wraith knight being a GC.

**Jimsolo**

Wait...how are Wraithknights "basically immune to poison?"

**SarisKhan**

Jimsolo wrote:
Wait...how are Wraithknights "basically immune to poison?"

Poison wounds Gargantuan Creatures only on a 6+. Then you've got to go through 3+ armour and an in-built FnP.

Time to consider other tools.

**Jimsolo**

When did they become Gargantuan? Is this another rumor that hasn't been put up on the main page of the rumor thread?

**vipoid**

Jimsolo wrote:
When did they become Gargantuan? Is this another rumor that hasn't been put up on the main page of the rumor thread?

It's not a rumour - it's been confirmed.

**BlaxicanX**

Jimsolo wrote:
When did they become Gargantuan? Is this another rumor that hasn't been put up on the main page of the rumor thread?

Here http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2015/04/boom-eldar-rules-tidalwave.html

That info was provided earlier in the day by a guy who took a picture of himself holding the new codex, so it's likely legit.