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Once a Daemon Prince is fully kitted they are about 345 points. Be'Lakor is 350 points. Which would you rather have and why?

Be'lakor everytime. He automatically comes with everything you want and need on a daemon prince.

A sure thing is better than a maybe. Be'lakor without a doubt.

The fact that BelLakor cannot summon wouldn't be a consideration?

Be'lakor gives you guaranteed shrouding and invisibility. He also can take on things most other DPs can't.

 AutarchRion wrote:
The fact that BelLakor cannot summon wouldn't be a consideration?

There are other units in the Daemon army that can summon. You don't need everyone to be able to do that.

A million times be'lakor. See above for the reasons! He's everything you need and more.

When running an FMC/Summoning heavy list, what do you think are the optimal number of summoning psychers that you should have on the table? I would think you would want at least 4 psychers with the summon ability. If you have fewer than that, I feel your opponent could focus them down pretty quickly.

When running an FMC/Summoning heavy list, what do you think are the optimal number of summoning psychers that you should have on the table? I would think you would want at least 4 psychers with the summon ability. If you have fewer than that, I feel your opponent could focus them down pretty quickly.

Not sure what the optimal number is, but you should be able to get at least four without worrying about Belakor not being bale to do it. A Demon army will have plenty of bodies so hiding your summoners using other squads and terrain shouldn't be an issue. Then, when you need it, you can protect one or two by using Belakor to cast invis. Works likea charm. I voted Belakor all the way.

 AutarchRion wrote:
When running an FMC/Summoning heavy list, what do you think are the optimal number of summoning psychers that you should have on the table? I would think you would want at least 4 psychers with the summon ability. If you have fewer than that, I feel your opponent could focus them down pretty quickly.

That's what Pink Horrors are for

I'm of the opinion that Be'Lakor may be the best Special Character Choice in the game. I can't think of anyone that I would say is a better choice. Can you see any other named character going against him and beating him 1 on 1?

Demon prince is better.

More survivable and more versatility.

 Master Shake wrote:
Demon prince is better.

More survivable and more versatility.

This is completely wrong. Everything Be'lakor has either makes him more durable or good at killing anything in the game.

 CrownAxe wrote:

 Master Shake wrote:
Demon prince is better.

More survivable and more versatility.

This is completely wrong. Everything Be'lakor has either makes him more durable or good at killing anything in the game.

Not quite completely, but most of the time. A nurgle DP with iron arm is certainly more durable than Be'lakor. Of course this involves rolling the power and then successfully casting it.

As for versatility......I don't think I've ever read anything which has been further from the truth. What in the game is more versatile than a model that can move up to 24' a turn, has armourbane and fleshbane, guaranteed invisibility and fearless. Be'lakor can do just about anything you ant him to do. Just don't expect him to survive long if you put him in front of wave serpents or markerlights.

 AutarchRion wrote:
I'm of the opinion that Be'Lakor may be the best Special Character Choice in the game. I can't think of anyone that I would say is a better choice. Can you see any other named character going against him and beating him 1 on 1?

Well, he's a 350p powerhouse. He DESERVES to be better. And generally named characters are worse than the custom ones.

 Master Shake wrote:
Demon prince is better.

More survivable and more versatility.

Well ..... A DP might get iron arm, but Be'lakor can cast invis on himself. 6s to hit him in CC and range. Plus he is shrouded and can move and run. I actually think he has more consistent survivability thank a Nurgle DP. Tho I love my Nurgle DPs.

Guaranteed armourbane and flesh bane. He is just so clutch.

If you already have another Daemon Prince in the list, Be'lakor is the clear choice for me. He is a consistent force multiplier

Let it be known that you should be using your Pink Horrors as WC Batteries and rolls on Daemonology's Maelefic tree for summoning. Even a single Pink Horror summoned from a Portaglyph has the potential to become a mighty Lord of Change. These are all they are used for. They automatically know Flickering Fire if they need to use it, so, yeah.

If invisibility wasn't nerfed at EVERY tournament then Be'lakor would be cool. As it is... Wave Serpents just auto delete... You want Endurance and Iron Arm or summoning.

I do not mean to digress the Be'Lakor Vs DP of Iron Arm, but

at 350pts, your opponent can have an Imperial Knight. Can Be'Lakor best an Imperial Knight? If he could, but wold you send him in to fight it?

Also, these tournaments are house ruling the nerfs to invisibility but not nerfing the bogus serpent shields shooting S6 and ignoring cover?

My god this game is so unbalanced! I need to get out of the game while I can.

Also, I have a dp primed and ready to sale. Is it difficult to modify him to look like Be'Lakor?

 Filch wrote:

Also, these tournaments are house ruling the nerfs to invisibility but not nerfing the bogus serpent shields shooting S6 and ignoring cover?

Serpent shield is S7 shooting...
I like the normal prince. Bear with me. 3+ armor is really good, very little that skyfires is AP3.
A single serpent is doing less than .65 wounds to a prince with 3+ armor. Be'lakor is taking closer to a full wound. 4 Serpents is putting Be'lakor at risk of death, but I'd feel safe letting a normal prince take that fire with the 3+ armor.

Sure invisible Be'Lakor is (nearly) impossible to kill. But you've got to successfully cast that invisibility.
I'd rather have the harder to shoot down and cheaper prince. But I don't use my prince to wade into the middle and wreck face. I've got other units for that.

 Filch wrote:
at 350pts, your opponent can have an Imperial Knight. Can Be'Lakor best an Imperial Knight? If he could, but wold you send him in to fight it?

Imp. Knights start at 380, 4 attacks and hit Be'lakor on 5+ (normal) or 6+ (invisibility). With EW, Be'lakor won't die to ID. An Imp. Knight will hardly kill Be'lakor in one turn. On the other hand, Be'lakor hits on 3+, S7 Armourbane (like a warscythe), master-crafted (will re-roll 1 miss) and 4 attacks as well. He's not the best answer to Imp. Knights, but not a terribad one.

 CrownAxe wrote:

 Master Shake wrote:
Demon prince is better.

More survivable and more versatility.

This is completely wrong. Everything Be'lakor has either makes him more durable or good at killing anything in the game.

You are completely wrong.

Survivability is situational, depending on the meta. Both serpent shields and any number of tau units that ignore cover will bring him down incredibly fast.

Of course you can always put the Grimoire on Be'lakor for 2++.

 jy2 wrote:
Of course you can always put the Grimoire on Be'lakor for 2++.

Which is exactly what I do before grounding him in mid to late game to deal with threats like an Imperial Knight. Invisibility + Grimoire = dead <whatever>

Except imperial knight. Stomping be'lakor is just as easy as ever.

Imperial knight vs Be'lakor is in Be'lakor's favour. However, the imperial knight has the potential to instagib him, just as it can do to any other model in the game.
Would a daemons player charge an IK with Be'lakor? You bet. He is one of the few anti IK units that daemons have, and is more reliable than most. Stick invis on him to limit any potential damage and he can reliably kill a knight in a round or 2.

In the argument of Be'lakor vs a DP, Be'lakor is the clear winner when considering things like Imperial knights, soul grinders and other AV13 front walkers, as the DP can do a mighty 1 attack per turn in the hopes of hurting them.

 Filch wrote:


at 350pts, your opponent can have an Imperial Knight. Can Be'Lakor best an Imperial Knight? If he could, but wold you send him in to fight it?

There should be an entry next to every unit in the summary with a "Can't beat an IK - never take it" or "Can beat an IK - remove everything that can't and take this".

 Master Shake wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:

 Master Shake wrote:
Demon prince is better.

More survivable and more versatility.

This is completely wrong. Everything Be'lakor has either makes him more durable or good at killing anything in the game.

You are completely wrong.

Survivability is situational, depending on the meta. Both serpent shields and any number of tau units that ignore cover will bring him down incredibly fast.

He should also be invisible. He's durability doesn't only come from shrouded

Invisibility is overrated on a FMC. Twin linked serpent shields give no feths about invisibility.

Be'lakor is a chump vs most things that are popular in the meta. Cleansing flame, serpent shields, broadsides and more.
The fact is, he is easily dispatched due to his lack of armor and FnP.