The NEW INFINITY News & Rumors Thread - December's New Releases on Pg. 203!

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**Kanluwen**

aldo wrote:
It was already a rule last year
Nobody ever cared, same as CB couldn't even manage to enforce their no unit proxies policy at the Interplanetary.

There is a significant difference between allowing proxies from third parties and allowing proxies only from your produced range.

**drazz**

Kanluwen wrote:
aldo wrote:
It was already a rule last year
Nobody ever cared, same as CB couldn't even manage to enforce their no unit proxies policy at the Interplanetary.

There is a significant difference between allowing proxies from third parties and allowing proxies only from your produced range.

Yeah, I'm not seeing the problem with as much outrage as I think people are having.

Yes, you might need to proxie things; they're asking that you use CB models to do so. Its more about using models from other combines than it is about needing to proxie a model that has not been made yet.

**carlos13th**

Doesn't using infinity models add to the confusing far more than a third party is. Let's say someone proxies a nomad profile without a model for an aguacilles model. Everytime you see it you might mistake it for an aguacilles. Third party model you are not gonna have that problem.m

**Kanluwen**

Just remember:

If Games Workshop does it, it's unreasonable and vindictive and all kinds of anticonsumer practices!

If Corvus Belli does it, it's to protect their IP at their tournaments!

**drazz**

I begrudge NO company for asking that participants at its own tournaments use only their own products.

This is not a GW vs PP vs CB or anyone else thing. This is a regular issue with official tournaments. I think its a non-issue personally.

Besides, they don't even say that you have to use WYSIWYG.

**ImAGeek**

drazz wrote:
I begrudge NO company for asking that participants at its own tournaments use only their own products.

This is not a GW vs PP vs CB or anyone else thing. This is a regular issue with official tournaments. I think its a non-issue personally.

Besides, they don't even say that you have to use WYSIWYG.

Agreed. I wouldn't expect any company to let other companies models be used at official tournaments. I wouldn't be against it if they chose to do so but I'm not against them only letting their own companies models be used.

**warboss**

double post that dakka's software didn't catch...

**Kanluwen**

warboss wrote:
If the company is providing significant monetary support for a 3rd party event (beyond just a few posters/fliers and a mention on their site) or are running it at their own cost then they should have a say in what is allowed. I've never played a game of infinity let alone in ITS events so I can't say whether they'd meet those criteria.

They don't meet any of those criteria, at least when it comes to the ITS tournaments that have been run local to me. In fact those have all had $10 entry fees.

As far as I am aware as well, tournament organizers/their stores have to purchase the prize packs themselves.

**warboss**

Weird... my second post was only corrected after you posted... and it deleted the first post instead of the second even after I edited it. In any case, my original post is quoted in Kan's quote above.

**ImAGeek**

Kanluwen wrote:
warboss wrote:
If the company is providing significant monetary support for a 3rd party event (beyond just a few posters/fliers and a mention on their site) or are running it at their own cost then they should have a say in what is allowed. I've never played a game of infinity let alone in ITS events so I can't say whether they'd meet those criteria.

They don't meet any of those criteria, at least when it comes to the ITS tournaments that have been run local to me. In fact those have all had $10 entry fees.

As far as I am aware as well, tournament organizers/their stores have to purchase the prize packs themselves.

The ITS tournaments run local to you don't have enforce the reasonable proxy rule you're so against though do they. The only ones where that rule is a must are ones run by CB themselves.

**Kanluwen**

warboss wrote:
Weird... my second post was only corrected after you posted... and it deleted the first post instead of the second even after I edited it. In any case, my original post is quoted in Kan's quote above.

It's because it wasn't actually a double post.

Dakka corrects those posts but it sometimes takes a few minutes and editing the double post is the same as editing the initial post, sooo...

Automatically Appended Next Post:

ImAGeek wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:
warboss wrote:
If the company is providing significant monetary support for a 3rd party event (beyond just a few posters/fliers and a mention on their site) or are running it at their own cost then they should have a say in what is allowed. I've never played a game of infinity let alone in ITS events so I can't say whether they'd meet those criteria.

They don't meet any of those criteria, at least when it comes to the ITS tournaments that have been run local to me. In fact those have all had $10 entry fees.

As far as I am aware as well, tournament organizers/their stores have to purchase the prize packs themselves.

The ITS tournaments run local to you don't have enforce the reasonable proxy rule you're so against though do they. The only ones where that rule is a must are ones run by CB themselves.

ITS tournaments are ITS tournaments when run by a Warcor.

Otherwise the only tournaments where these rules would be in effect would be in Spain(as CB attends those commonly), the Vigo Interplanetary, or any event where CB themselves are present(like Adepticon or GenCon).

And if THAT is the case, then these rules are completely unnecessary to begin with!

**Pacific**

Hoping it's the Aleph or Yu-Jing style moto as well, could do with a change from the Chopper.

ImAGeek wrote:
drazz wrote:
I begrudge NO company for asking that participants at its own tournaments use only their own products.

This is not a GW vs PP vs CB or anyone else thing. This is a regular issue with official tournaments. I think its a non-issue personally.

Besides, they don't even say that you have to use WYSIWYG.

Agreed. I wouldn't expect any company to let other companies models be used at official tournaments. I wouldn't be against it if they chose to do so but I'm not against them only letting their own companies models be used.

What is the issue with this, am I missing something?

Also.. will someone please tell me where I can get 3rd party producers of miniatures not made by CB?!

**Kalamadea**

Mountain out of a molehill. This is absolutely standard for any games company that makes their own figures and runs official events. GW, PP, FoW, FFG, all of them require models their company makes (PP doesn't even let you use proxies, period!). Only Mantic allows proxies from other game companies and that's because it's how they started their company: by PROVIDING proxies for other companies. Do you complain that Magic: the Gathering tournaments won't let you print out your own deck instead of buying the cards? Yet another internet nerdrage of a complete non-issue.

It also makes absolute sense, it's a company that gives you complete rules for free, obviously they bank on making their money selling the figures. And just like any tournament run by Warcors/Outriders/Press Gangers etc, the tournament organizers are always free to be less stringent on such requirements

**drazz**

Pacific wrote:

What is the issue with this, am I missing something?

Also.. will someone please tell me where I can get 3rd party producers of miniatures not made by CB?!

The issue is that there are many profiles that do not have a physical model to represent them. So, it can be difficult to put together the perfect list and have the exact models to represent them.

**Alpharius**

I'm in with the rest of you!

I hope this bike is less Chopper/Sons of Anarchy and more Akira/Aleph/Future Baby!

**Pacific**

Yes, but read the next entry Drazz:

Use of converted figures is allowed, and in fact encouraged,
as long as most or all the figure is composed of parts from
Corvus Belli miniatures and the figure accurately represents
the unit and weapon option it stands for.

So there is nothing to stop you doing weapon or equipment swaps to make the miniature you want to represent, which I think is what is done anyway.

As well as this, I find in practice these rules are not really enforceable and people can generally use what they like as long as they aren't OTT about it.

I've seen armies consisting of 50%+ non-GW conversions and proxies being used at WHW. Someone I know had their army in the display cabinets there for months, and that had loads of 3rd party bits used. I can't see CB being any different to GW in this regard; In reality, no-one really cares.

**Absolutionis**

You could always just use your SpecOps model as astand-in for anything. Aside from larger bases, I've used the Chandra SpecOps as a stand-in for dozens of things in the past.

**Kalamadea**

drazz wrote:

The issue is that there are many profiles that do not have a physical model to represent them. So, it can be difficult to put together the perfect list and have the exact models to represent them.

Except that that's been true of pretty much every miniature line ever. You convert or you take somehting else, or you proxy and take the chance that you can't use it in an official tourney. But most TOs are pretty relaxed with these things, and often operate under Rule of Cool: if it looks awesome, people are very unlikely to tell you "no, you can't". Either way, this is hardly "news" or "rumors" as it's been in place for a year, and it's hardly unique to Infinity. Of all the times we've gotten an Alpharius "take it to the general discussion forum", I think this time applies most

**Kanluwen**

Alpharius wrote:
I'm in with the rest of you!

I hope this bike is less Chopper/Sons of Anarchy and more Akira/Aleph/Future Baby!

It's in the N3 Core Book; no joke.

Page 150.

**NAVARRO**

Besides no one wants to see melon heads and monkey arms spacemarinez on a infinity force... thats just fraking awfull and almost criminal!

**Kanluwen**

Pacific wrote:

What is the issue with this, am I missing something?

Also.. will someone please tell me where I can get 3rd party producers of miniatures not made by CB?!

There is no company producing 3rd party models, but Hasslefree's "SpecOps Miniatures" line has become a go-to for a lot of people to get Chasseur/Ariadna proxies.

It's gotten to the point where now when people ask about new Chasseurs, there are quite a few people that just point the Hasslefree SpecOps out.

Oh yeah, and it was quite common to see Space Marines or other 40k/Fantasy models doubling as HVT/Civilians--since they're easier to acquire en masse than actual civilian models.

**Alpharius**

NAVARRO wrote:
Besides no one wants to see melon heads and monkey arms spacemarinez on a infinity force... thats just fraking awfull and almost criminal!

I hear you there - but CB has been having a fair bit of scale creep themselves lately, and while the models remain mostly proportionally, it is still a bit jarring at times...

**GrimDork**

The line about 'mostly' CB parts makes me fine with the ruling. If you wanna nab a missile launcher to represent a profile with no model, shouldn't be a problem now. Fair enough.

I, too, would prefer a JSA/Aleph bike, just to have options for my someday JSA biker gang.

**-Loki-**

Alpharius wrote:
NAVARRO wrote:
Besides no one wants to see melon heads and monkey arms spacemarinez on a infinity force... thats just fraking awfull and almost criminal!

I hear you there - but CB has been having a fair bit of scale creep themselves lately, and while the models remain mostly proportionally, it is still a bit jarring at times...

Scale creep has really been blown out of proportion. The majority of models from across the years still look fine. The biggest issues have been with the Corregidor starter, which was actually slightly smaller then the scale of that time anyway, and the new Morats, which I always thought were purposely made bigger.

In general, what's changes has been propertions, not size. If I stand the old Rifle Jannisary, new Rifle Jannisary and HMG Jannisary next to each other (a rather good example as they exemplify 4 of the stages of Infinity scale - 1st edition, 2nd edition, 3rd edition and old vs new HI) they look fine regarding height, but the 1st edition model has chunkier arms and legs.

**Alpharius**

Something was certainly blown out of proportion!

**Knight**

I'll have to post the old Nisse MSR with the new version.

**Dropbear Victim**

Here's all the relevant parts from Page 3 of ITS2015.

Spoiler:

I dont see a problem with it. Its no different to other company wanting their own stuff used in their own tournaments. Like Kalamadea said, Rule of Cool usually applies to peoples tournaments so its not an issue.*

*Unless you have a fully unpainted Hasslefree Adriana force

**Vertrucio**

Unenforceable, but otherwise i don't have a problem with it either. However, they still deserve the flak they're getting due to that rule interacting with their lack of profile coverage.

**Chillreaper**

I'm not exactly seeing the problem here.

If CB make the mini - use that.

If they don't, either proxy it with a suitable CB mini (and inform your opponent), or convert a CB mini to do the job.

Not having those rules and taking a lack of said rules to its logical extreme means that I could just turn up with a bucket of green army men - hardly a good idea.

They have to draw the line somewhere.

**-Loki-**

There's also the fact that it's practically unenforcable. The vast, vast majority of ITS events are run at little FLGS's by TO's with no affiliation with CB. And even if they're run by a warcor, I can't see them getting grumpy over a non-CB model.

It's basically a standard tournament rule for a miniatures company that makes its own miniatures. As always, it's up to the TO to enforce the rules, or not.

At worst, simply ask the TO before attending if they're fine with it. You'll unlikely be told no.