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Kholzerino wrote:
Think I it's hard to make Enclave v effective (as in top tier effective) without Skyrays (multiple). Grav spam is such a huge problem for Riptides and Broadsides.

I don't get it...
What connection is there between enclaves and skyrays?
I'm playing enclaves, not using skyrays (or broadsides for that matter) and doing just fine.

The whole point in enclaves is that you have crisis suits for everything.

You mean a riptide for everything

What no Orks listed?

They are the kings of boots on ground.

The 30 man blob is a staple troop choice.

"The green tide" should ring a bell.

Indeed. The Green Tide formation detachment is one of the most ridiculous concentrations of 'boots on the ground' imaginable.

Inquisition 1850:

Inquisitor
3 plasma gun acolytes
8 bolter acolytes
Chimera with 2 hb and psybolts

3 plasma gun acolytes
8 bolter acolytes
Priest
Chimera with 2 hb and psybolts

3 plasma gun acolytes
8 bolter acolytes
Priest
Chimera with 2 hb and psybolts

Inquisitor
3 plasma gun acolytes
8 bolter acolytes
Chimera with 2 hb and psybolts

3 plasma gun acolytes
8 bolter acolytes
Priest
Chimera with 2 hb and psybolts

3 plasma gun acolytes
8 bolter acolytes
Priest
Chimera with 2 hb and psybolts

Inquisitor
3 plasma cannon servitors
Razorback with assault cannon and psybolts

2 jokearo
4 lasgun acolytes
Razorback with assault cannon and psybolts

2 jokearo
4 lasgun acolytes
Razorback with assault cannon and psybolts

Inquisitor
3 plasma cannon servitors
Razorback with assault cannon and psybolts

1 jokearo
2 lasgun acolytes
Razorback with assault cannon and psybolts

1 jokearo
2 lasgun acolytes
Razorback with assault cannon and psybolts.

1850pts

106 wounds (98 boots on the ground) and all of them have an apc (12 all together). Best thing is that the inqisition chimeras can have all 3 plasma shooting out of the hatch and both the chimeras and razors are cheaper than other dexes equivalents yet have +1s on all shots. Same with the bolter acolytes - as cheap as guardmen but +1s and ap on their weapons and all in fearless or ld10 stubborn squads.

6 plasma cannons and 6 lascannons sit back field to support the 24 bs4 tl st7 ap4 rending and 36 st6 ap4 shots from the vehicles + all the plasma and bolter fire from the acolytes.

Got boots on the ground but hasn't sacrificed mobility or firepower to do so.

That is a mech list. Not a foot list.

Green Tide loses points for the same reason the Imperial Guard does. In modern 40K, simply having a crap ton of wounds doesn't really matter anymore, due to the the power creep of ranged dakka.

Yeah, you can take like 100+ boyz in a single 1500 point list, but when a mere two war-walker squads with scatter-lasers are killing an average of 36 boyz per turn alone, not counting everything else in the list, you see how quickly that horde loses effectiveness.

In order for a foot-slogging list to be truly effective, it needs to either be able to quickly get into the fight and start piling on damage, or be very durable.

 BoomWolf wrote:
Suits can be called highly-fancy boots if you like

Boots. And Pants. Boots and pants.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Green Tide loses points for the same reason the Imperial Guard does. In modern 40K, simply having a crap ton of wounds doesn't really matter anymore, due to the the power creep of ranged dakka.

Yeah, you can take like 100+ boyz in a single 1500 point list, but when a mere two war-walker squads with scatter-lasers are killing an average of 36 boyz per turn alone, not counting everything else in the list, you see how quickly that horde loses effectiveness.

In order for a foot-slogging list to be truly effective, it needs to either be able to quickly get into the fight and start piling on damage, or be very durable.

I constantly win games with footslogging orkses. Most of the time, they don't kill enough enemies to win by actual slaying but they generate lots of victory points on the way there. Board controle ftw.

Besides, you've got other stuff than just boyz called ranged support to deal with things like war walkers before they invalidate your horde. We're not playing Vacuum-hammer in reality.

Sure, but your list isn't quite so foot-sloggy when you're dragging around vehicles are artillery.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Too much long-ranged support and you've invalidated the list-theme that this thread is talking about.

Every list, especially, the footslogging one, needs long-ranged support. Cause, obviously, you got to deal with the immediate threat for your infantry. That's just how it works. Stop the machine gun and run for it. I don't think that some big gunz and a few buggies make your other 100 footslogging orkses non-boot-on-the-ground.

Besides, where did you get 36 kills? Did you count in cover and fnp?

When America, Britain, France, Spain and others sent in troops to afghanistan and iraq so we could have 'boots on the ground', I can assure every single one of you that they had vehicles with them!

Poly Ranger wrote:
When America, Britain, France, Spain and others sent in troops to afghanistan and iraq so we could have 'boots on the ground', I can assure every single one of you that they had vehicles with them!

I agree, there is a very big difference between a footslogging army and an army with lots of boots on the ground. Boots on the ground is a term used to describe lots of soldiers/infantry on the front line or wherever the battle is taking place. 60 OS tactical marines in drop pods or rhinos is a perfect example of an army adhering to a "boots on the ground" approach rather than using a lower model count army with lots of expensive vehicles, for example. If your core list is made up of large groups of objective secured troops (even in transports) instead of elite units (say 10 marines in a rhino for 200pts rather than an empty 250pt landraider) you have a solid "boots on the ground army".

Poly Ranger wrote:
When America, Britain, France, Spain and others sent in troops to afghanistan and iraq so we could have 'boots on the ground', I can assure every single one of you that they had vehicles with them!

bs mate they had to travel by foot across the entire country also they had to swim across the sea to get there



flippers in the water

 BlaxicanX wrote:

Yeah, you can take like 100+ boyz in a single 1500 point list, but when a mere two war-walker squads with scatter-lasers are killing an average of 36 boyz per turn alone, not counting everything else in the list, you see how quickly that horde loses effectiveness.

Each walker get 4 shots, that if any hit, the other 4 shots from that walker are twin-linked.
Basically, 4 at 3+, and 4 at 3+ with re-roll (discounting the 1:81 chance that all 4 shots miss with the first scatterlaser).
Each unit of 3 is scoring 8 normal hits, and 10.66 twin-linked hits, for 18.66 hits.
Wounding on 2+ is 15.55 wounds. Kustom Forcefield knocks that down to 10.37 wounds. Painboy brings it down to 6.9 wounds. Or, roughly 7 wounds.

I'd bet on the super MSU DE over ork mob. The DE actually have the firepower to down them. The beastmaters alone are killing ~18 orks are turn with shooting, after the feel no pain and cover saves. Warriors down ~15 at long range and 30 at short.

-Matt

 HawaiiMatt wrote:

Each walker get 4 shots, that if any hit, the other 4 shots from that walker are twin-linked.

Just to let you know, scatterlasers cannot twin link each other as all the hits are resolved all at the same time. Double scatterlaser warwalkers are pretty good but they usually need guide to become incredible (or an ammor dump can also help).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
BTW the ork green tide is not bad. The super duper unit of orks with proper support; KFF, pain boy, big gunz, and lootas can be pretty difficult to deal with for many lists. The only problem being that when you find a list capable of dealing with it it usually ends up like a hamburger in a meat grinder.

Other than the regenerating stompa based lists and some whacky grot tanks + big gunz lists I have not seen a lot of ork lists I feel threatened by. However part of that may be my tendency to play maelstorm or BAO style missions these days. Big slow units that have to close to be effective are not exactly great in mealstorm.

I was going to say.

Firstly, if you're investing ~700 points in one mob, you will find a painboy and either a KFF mek, or shell out to buy the first few ranks eavy armour. That severely takes the sting out of that force.

Secondly - war walkers are one of the most extreme cost/firepower units I can think of, and I rarely see them in force.

Venoms, I'll grant you. The other advantage of venoms is that it's hard to shoot them down in return - war walkers in squadrons risk losing the entire squadron to a volley of heavy fire (lootas or something) but a buzzing swarm of venoms has to be shot down ship by individual ship.

It's the same reason why a tervigon-heavy army is often more annoying to kill - lots of small units of termagants, rather than one big one. That approach comes unstuck in a kill point game every quickly, of course.


Footslogging orks can actually provide massive fire support without reaching for artillery or tanks. Lootas, tankbustas and flash gitz may have a low BS but they put out a ridiculous amount of autocannon, krak missile and heavy bolter fire respectively.