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As near as I can tell, the unit is immune or nearly immune to every single ranged attack in our codex. Poison and Disintegrator Cannons bounce off the chariot. Haywire blasters will bounce off the rider. Lances got more significantly more expensive, and it still requires 5.4 shots to strip even a single wound off the rider.

A dual-aspect profile isn't itself a bad idea, but allowing the defending player to allocate the hits is madness. Phantasm and Torment Grenade Launchers might be able to bypass this problem, but they still have to cope with the 3+ invuln.

Melee doesn't have this problem, but melee units have to cope with mindshackle scarabs. The only solution I can think of is Incubi. Thoughts?

The reaper could very poorly do it. The single shot has ID and haywire, but I seem to remember it being AP3....

The artifact that forces LD test at -2, take that number of wounds might work.

In melee grots might be better.

But yes, it is looking nearly impossible for pure DE to take on a CCB

CCB has the option of buying a 2+ armor save and probably should. Reaper would bounce right off of that.

Grots might be able to manage something, but they'd have to catch him first. That's a tall order for a bulky infantry model.

Why are Blasters bad? Just need 1 pen, then he's AV11. On top of that, we can DS a venom full of Blasterborn behind the chariot, where it doesn't get Quantum Shielding. I do agree that in general though, with a Chariot rider allocating the hits, it makes DE specialized weapons more difficult to use.

Just throw a halfway decent tarpitting unit at it. The main weakness of a CCB is tarpits.

 Homeskillet wrote:
Why are Blasters bad? Just need 1 pen, then he's AV11. On top of that, we can DS a venom full of Blasterborn behind the chariot, where it doesn't get Quantum Shielding. I do agree that in general though, with a Chariot rider allocating the hits, it makes DE specialized weapons more difficult to use.

Because the blasters deal zero damage to the rider, so he'll just allocate all damage to him.

 BoomWolf wrote:

 Homeskillet wrote:
Why are Blasters bad? Just need 1 pen, then he's AV11. On top of that, we can DS a venom full of Blasterborn behind the chariot, where it doesn't get Quantum Shielding. I do agree that in general though, with a Chariot rider allocating the hits, it makes DE specialized weapons more difficult to use.

Because the blasters deal zero damage to the rider, so he'll just allocate all damage to him.

Not sure how S8 AP2 will deal zero damage to the rider.

3++ T5, thats how. Its going to take a LOT of blasters to kill a CCB.
Personally i think that 3 MSU grotesque units are going to be come a staple of DE lists. One small unit thrown at his barge ties it up forever and takes his ~300 point unit out of the game. You dont need to kill it, just remove it from hurting you. 1 of the 3 units should be able to catch it and then thats all you need to worry about it.

Charge it with Llaemens (SP), 10 point models w/ 2+ poison and instant death on 6s?

Ram the thing.

Probably the best chance to cause a pen to remove the shell.

And no jinks allowed

 Desubot wrote:
Ram the thing.

Probably the best chance to cause a pen to remove the shell.

And no jinks allowed

But 3++ on CCB blah blah blah moving on

That still requires you to run the Tantalus because nothing in DE can ram the CCB so it will have a huge target on its head (plus need to be running FW)

 zephoid wrote:
3++ T5, thats how. Its going to take a LOT of blasters to kill a CCB.
Personally i think that 3 MSU grotesque units are going to be come a staple of DE lists. One small unit thrown at his barge ties it up forever and takes his ~300 point unit out of the game. You dont need to kill it, just remove it from hurting you. 1 of the 3 units should be able to catch it and then thats all you need to worry about it.

Yes I agree, although I can never seem to fit it in at low point games

 zephoid wrote:
3++ T5, thats how. Its going to take a LOT of blasters to kill a CCB.

Nevermind.

 Homeskillet wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:

 Homeskillet wrote:
Why are Blasters bad? Just need 1 pen, then he's AV11. On top of that, we can DS a venom full of Blasterborn behind the chariot, where it doesn't get Quantum Shielding. I do agree that in general though, with a Chariot rider allocating the hits, it makes DE specialized weapons more difficult to use.

Because the blasters deal zero damage to the rider, so he'll just allocate all damage to him.

Not sure how S8 AP2 will deal zero damage to the rider.

I thought EMP blaster was the discussion actually...

Enough even "regular blaster" (as it will be named from now on) will not damage the rider too much.

wounding on 2 and saving on 3 means you need 10.8 blaster hits to kill the overlord, on average.
That's quite alot, and he can shift his damage soaking to the barge itself if the overlord is down to his last wound (as its unlikely a single shooting round will take down all the wounds)
That's not effective threat management.


The CCB is virtually impenetrable to most weapons the way the current chariot rules interact with the current necron codex, you need something that is S10 so it can properly threaten both the overlord, and the barge itself.
Grav cents also threaten both profiles decently, so they are an option for marines, and anything that packs D strength can threaten to kill either profile too-but that's all I can think of right now.

 CrownAxe wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Ram the thing.

Probably the best chance to cause a pen to remove the shell.

And no jinks allowed

But 3++ on CCB blah blah blah moving on

That still requires you to run the Tantalus because nothing in DE can ram the CCB so it will have a huge target on its head (plus need to be running FW)

Not everyone agrees on the 3++
Tough nvm i forgot they changed the raming strength to armor not distance.

Couldnt reavers HoW a pen?

 Desubot wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Ram the thing.

Probably the best chance to cause a pen to remove the shell.

And no jinks allowed

But 3++ on CCB blah blah blah moving on

That still requires you to run the Tantalus because nothing in DE can ram the CCB so it will have a huge target on its head (plus need to be running FW)

Not everyone agrees on the 3++
Tough nvm i forgot they changed the raming strength to armor not distance.

Couldnt reavers HoW a pen?

You need the caltrops because the regular blade vanes only get up to a glance against AV13.

Unless you get behind the CCB to HoW its AV11

Ah balls i forgot they resolve combat at front armor.

Chariots are annoying :/

 Desubot wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Ram the thing.

Probably the best chance to cause a pen to remove the shell.

And no jinks allowed

But 3++ on CCB blah blah blah moving on

That still requires you to run the Tantalus because nothing in DE can ram the CCB so it will have a huge target on its head (plus need to be running FW)

Not everyone agrees on the 3++
Tough nvm i forgot they changed the raming strength to armor not distance.

Couldnt reavers HoW a pen?

The Space Wolves codex came out and clarified how chariots work a bit better. The phase shifter grants a 3++ to the chariot profile, RAW and RAI. The non-necron community will try to argue this away, but they don't have rules justification for doing so. If people bother playing out the chariot with the 3++ they will find it is only a minor buff (except for the case of D weapons in CC).

A 3++ is not a minor buff

Especially for people that depend on ignore cover to get through jinkage. but thats another topic

Was there anything written for Chariots and No escape with flamers?

 Desubot wrote:
A 3++ is not a minor buff

Especially for people that depend on ignore cover to get through jinkage. but thats another topic

Was there anything written for Chariots and No escape with flamers?

Chariots aren't transports so No Escape doesn't apply.

Well thats all i got then


Tarpit it or shot it till it dies i guess :/

Talos squad maybe?

Talos SMASH!!!!

I kid of course, you need to catch it and it's faster than you.

This could be where a unit of ten Wyches has a place in your army - 50 points holding 240+ at bay? Yes, please.

How bout 3 talos squads...O_o

You handle it the same way you handle anything else. Volume of fire. Lances chew through 3 wounds just as easily as anything else. The more shots he takes on the rider, the more saves he fails.

 BoomWolf wrote:

 Homeskillet wrote:
Why are Blasters bad? Just need 1 pen, then he's AV11. On top of that, we can DS a venom full of Blasterborn behind the chariot, where it doesn't get Quantum Shielding. I do agree that in general though, with a Chariot rider allocating the hits, it makes DE specialized weapons more difficult to use.

Because the blasters deal zero damage to the rider, so he'll just allocate all damage to him.

str8 ap 2 tends to not do 0 damage to the rider.

assaulting it is the best way to kill it, the attacker gets to decide to allocate the attacks in assault not the necron player.

reavers would probably Gib a lord before the lord could even use MSS.

Reaver Jetbikes with Caltrops and their Hammer of Wrath have a pretty good chance of blowing it up right away with the hammer of Wrath. You do get to allocate the hits that occur to a chariot, just allocate them to the chariot.

You guys are overcomplicating the situation.

Saturation of Dark Lances should be just fine (and as far as I know about the new Dark Eldar codex, it shouldn't be hard to accomplish). 3++ is good, but it'll fail 1/3 of the time. Just keep firing until he's dead.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
You guys are overcomplicating the situation.

Saturation of Dark Lances should be just fine (and as far as I know about the new Dark Eldar codex, it shouldn't be hard to accomplish). 3++ is good, but it'll fail 1/3 of the time. Just keep firing until he's dead.

Its just not that simple. Lets mathhammer this out.

You want to deal 3 wounds so you need to get by its 3++ save (x3) wound on 2+ (x6/5) and hit on 3+ (x3/2)

That comes out 16.2 lances you need to fire at the CCB. That is a ton and is probably going to but most if not all of your lances in a single turn plus a lot of those lances are in the middle of units that could be doing something else such as in a warrior squad or a raider. Its just not a very efficient way of dealing it.

And then it reanimates.

 BoomWolf wrote:

 Homeskillet wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:

 Homeskillet wrote:
Why are Blasters bad? Just need 1 pen, then he's AV11. On top of that, we can DS a venom full of Blasterborn behind the chariot, where it doesn't get Quantum Shielding. I do agree that in general though, with a Chariot rider allocating the hits, it makes DE specialized weapons more difficult to use.

Because the blasters deal zero damage to the rider, so he'll just allocate all damage to him.

Not sure how S8 AP2 will deal zero damage to the rider.

I thought EMP blaster was the discussion actually...

Enough even "regular blaster" (as it will be named from now on) will not damage the rider too much.

wounding on 2 and saving on 3 means you need 10.8 blaster hits to kill the overlord, on average.
That's quite alot, and he can shift his damage soaking to the barge itself if the overlord is down to his last wound (as its unlikely a single shooting round will take down all the wounds)
That's not effective threat management.


The CCB is virtually impenetrable to most weapons the way the current chariot rules interact with the current necron codex, you need something that is S10 so it can properly threaten both the overlord, and the barge itself.
Grav cents also threaten both profiles decently, so they are an option for marines, and anything that packs D strength can threaten to kill either profile too-but that's all I can think of right now.

Not that it's overly simple, but dropping in 2-3 venoms full of blasterborn behind him shouldn't be too incredibly difficult. The Bargelord is going to be out running after you, not necessarily worrying about what's behind him. And that's on top of your other options with assault via Grots or dark lances from raiders and ravagers, etc to help finish him off if they don't get the job done.