FAQ update, lore of undeath and 50% lords/heroes now in BRB

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**quickfuze**

TanKoL wrote:
Most people forget that having boots on the ground (or hooves or whatever) is key to winning
What will 75% characters do against massed ranks of steadfast troops ?
Absolutely nothing

People need to stop saying that the end is nigh (I know it's the End times, but still!), log off those forums and then actually play the game instead of theoryhammering it to death on Internet

every new edition / book / update / FAQ, we hear the same thing. Guess what ? We're still around

Really? Whats your steadfast going to do against 4 Flying Nurgle demon princes that never engage your steadfast and just Death magic and template you all game? Remember the Tzeentch flying circus that never saw combat? Welcome to a lot of games being decide by turn 3

**Boss Salvage**

PirateRobotNinjaofDeath wrote:Just because YOUR region is dead does not mean that ALL regions are dead. WHFB has a thriving tournament scene, which is getting bigger ever year. There are twice as many GTs in my areas as there were last year. The US Masters is helping that out even more. There are dozens of vibrant WHFB podcasts, and every army has a vibrant and active army-specific forum. Even the Tomb Kings and Beastmen! I really don't get where this "WHFB is dying" nonsense keeps coming from. If any game is dying it's 40K, with two back-to-back dogshit editions of the core rules.

This change is going to affect 50% of the builds of 20% of the armies. Armies that spammed combat heroes (warriors, dark elves, lizardmen) will spam combat lords instead...at the cost of other units. Seriously...upgrading scar vets to old bloods means fewer stegs and rippers. Upgrading masters to dreadlords means fewer warlocks. Warriors won't have room for all those chimeras and skullcrushers. And I'll have you know that skullcrushers scare me a whole heck of a lot more than 'unkillable tzeentch characters," who I kill with skeleton champions and SCR in 2/3rds of my games against them.

This is NOT going to be that big of a deal. All it really does is allow a few armies to bring some interesting new builds (Skaven with a bell and a bunkered greyseer, vampires with a zombie dragon and a master necro or a vampire lord on GASP shadow, Tomb Kings with a Khalida and a light council, etc.).

And if you can't handle the filth, then get your group to introduce some comp. Tough to bring any of those options in Swedish 10+ anyways.

Amen to all of this

namiel wrote:I am really curious to see how tournment organizers handle this. I dont see this going well in the tournment scene. It opens things up like nagash, ect. I dont see that working out so well for most armies.

Special Characters are the easiest and amongst the earliest thing comped out at Any Tournament Worth Going To

HawaiiMatt wrote:Lore of Undeath likewise has been thrown into the BRB.

I've been giving Undeath a lot of thought recently, and while I plan on taking it on my Lord of Change for the hell of it (and because I'm bored of the uber-spells of Metal and how they dictate my games), I actually think it'll be most competitive on that level 1-2 in your average non-Undead army. Little dude goes big early in the game to summon some vargheists or hexwraiths or monster, then - should he survive the miscast - leaves the rest of the game's power dice to the level 4 who has a proper lore, confident in the knowledge that he's skewed the game in his army's favor by 150-200 points. With some added skeleton redirectors later in the game if he's alive and things get heated up.

- Salvage

**Sigvatr**

thedarkavenger wrote:

Depending on how ETC handles it, I may start preferring the pack to normal warhammer packs.

Not being very optimistic right now though. Their last rule amendments were terrible and quite a few people were both surprised by their sudden change of direction and the way the info was presented to us.

**thedarkavenger**

Sigvatr wrote:
thedarkavenger wrote:

Depending on how ETC handles it, I may start preferring the pack to normal warhammer packs.

Not being very optimistic right now though. Their last rule amendments were terrible and quite a few people were both surprised by their sudden change of direction and the way the info was presented to us.

I'm of the opinion that GW have killed warhammer. I know I'm going to enjoy not giving people games and winning by sniping off characters.

**HawaiiMatt**

ansacs wrote:

If you want a shadow of that edition it was most of 8ed when there were still army lists that could generate more power dice and you have these crazy save or die spells. 8ed has almost killed fantasy. Moving 1-2 large infantry blocks forward, 6 dicing your big 6th spell, and killing any monster with a single cannon shot every single game with no variation whatsoever is not a fun or balanced game. 8ed is repetitive and boring and it appears the sales figures back that up. The only interesting part of the entire game anymore is the chaff battle, once that gets decided (usually turn 2) the game is a routine script with luck determining the final outcome.

I've heard that argument before. I did more damage with magic in 7th, as I had a larger advantage in power to dispel dice. Cannons are worse for skilled players in 8th. In 7th, they hit just as hard, and any skilled player could nail the ranges on the guess. In 8th, they took out the guess (advantage to rookie players), but threw in monstrous infantry stopping the cannon bounce (advantage target on receiving end).

The big hit in sales I would blame on GW not stocking the shelves. Walk into a store with unlimited funds, and you cannot walk out with a decent Fantasy army. Huge chunks of warhammer armies are direct order only.
I can buy anything I want for my dark eldar or eldar, but for some reason, GW stopped stocking fantasy, and then was surprised when the stuff they aren't stocking wasn't selling. Sure, you can order it online, but your throwing away all your impulse shopping.

If you're meta is seeing deathstars and chaff, then you need a few people running nothing but chaff; and then a few people running MMU (multiple medium units). The former wins the chaff battle and leaves nothing of value for the death stars to hit. The later has nothing the chaff can hit effectively, and has enough units to limit the effectively of death stars.

-Matt

**kooshlord**

Here's my quick takes on the armies I have current rules to, at approx 2500 points.

- Brets might enjoy hero-hammer and beast magic.
- Dwarves don't much care.
- Lizardmen could double-slaan more easily, and spam saurus lords/heros
- Ogres might be tempted to fill up the front rank of a gutstar with bruisers
- Dark Elves could have a field day
- High Elves might have fun with an annointed and a lvl 4 in the same list
-WoC could field double unbreakable daemon princes.

**The Shadow**

Really on the fence about this.

On the one hand, I don't think it'll affect things much. Having models on the table, in most cases, is still important, so I don't think many armies will change much. Furthermore, it is another way to play. If you want, you can play herohammer and the customisability of WHFB characters is one of the great aspects of the game, and this update just adds a new dimension to it. I can also use that Dark Elf list that was 5pts over on Heroes as well...

But on the other hand, there's a lot of nasty combinations that people can pull out, double DP, as someone mentioned, is the one that springs to my mind. Though I didn't play during the time, most older players in my club, and indeed on here, seem to have had bad experiences of herohammer.

I guess we'll see how it goes...

**th3maninblak**

kooshlord wrote:
Here's my quick takes on the armies I have current rules to, at approx 2500 points.

- Brets might enjoy hero-hammer and beast magic.
- Dwarves don't much care.
- Lizardmen could double-slaan more easily, and spam saurus lords/heros
- Ogres might be tempted to fill up the front rank of a gutstar with bruisers
- Dark Elves could have a field day
- High Elves might have fun with an annointed and a lvl 4 in the same list
-WoC could field double unbreakable daemon princes.

The thing that jumped out at me about lizards is that you can do double carnosaur with a slann pretty easily at 2500+, which could make for some really heinous lists.

**slk28850**

I'm not concerned with this change. I spend more time painting then playing these days. I am glad I'll be able to field Archaon in 2500pt games though. Such a great looking model.

**Da Boss**

I'm not really playing at the moment, but I started playing fantasy in 5th edition when Herohammer was in full swing. My favourite edition was definitely 6th overall, but I have to say the End Times and 50% Lords/Heroes has caught my attention, simply because I own 3 fully painted Fantasy armies and have another one unassembled in baggies. Being able to bring all the crazy makes the game a bit more wide open and also less expensive to participate in, and also lowers the number of models needed for deployment and so on, which is a major bugbear of mine.

I wonder will all of this revitalise Fantasy over all?

**Thunderfrog**

Its true that players can use this to vastly reduce the number of models required to play.

Ogres can now run 2 Tryants and a Slaughtermaster in their Ogre-Star at 2000 points.