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BrandonKF wrote:
Just how many of you are on Facebook? Answer yea or nay in a reply.

So how is there reception of the sculpts over on facebook? Are some of the same issues raised here and on the forums being raised there (excluding the possible overlap in members)? I'd imagine new players who didn't really pay attention to older stuff wouldn't care too much if the cheetah was stretched an extra 20% or if the armor plates on the kodiak got changed from XXL to L. It's kind of like me with infinity at this point. I don't have any prior investment in the minis so them changing the look and scale/size of some models isn't as much of a big deal for me as it is for those folks trying to have a more visually cohesive force when one mobile brigada or whatever is 20-30% larger than the others. The issue of changes scales in warzone completely scared me off from buying figs and with infinity I've pretty much made the decision to only buy recent digital sculpts if I ever get into it to hopefully prevent the issue. I was curious if the less hardcore crowd that I guess (no idea if it is valid) on facebook is the same way.

 Albertorius wrote:

Yeah, alienating the Pod's existing player base worked so well when they changed ranges and scale from RAFM to Tact, that I can see how appealling would be to repeat it now.

I don't want the old guard to be alienated at all. I just don't want them to look at this whole thing and wish it didn't happen. With the new models, I'm getting a lot more info about the universe than my original idea to buy one faction's models and never speak of it. I need the existing players to notice all the little things wrong with the models so they are corrected (hopefully) and I end up with a better, more representative product in the end. I didn't notice the thigh pads being too small, but the cheetah was way too tall for me. I care about the northern gears the most so I hope they are done well.

Tydil wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

Yeah, alienating the Pod's existing player base worked so well when they changed ranges and scale from RAFM to Tact, that I can see how appealling would be to repeat it now.

I don't want the old guard to be alienated at all. I just don't want them to look at this whole thing and wish it didn't happen. With the new models, I'm getting a lot more info about the universe than my original idea to buy one faction's models and never speak of it. I need the existing players to notice all the little things wrong with the models so they are corrected (hopefully) and I end up with a better, more representative product in the end. I didn't notice the thigh pads being too small, but the cheetah was way too tall for me. I care about the northern gears the most so I hope they are done well.

Hopefully the Pod will see stuff like this and will be able to reach a happy middle between design contrivances due to material and process, fidelity to the setting and current aesthetics needs/desires ^_^.

What I'm sure about is that they can earn a lot more (money, good faith, players) from listening than from not doing so.

From a quick check, the feedback on the official DP9 FB page is lukewarm at best, and the comments about the new renders virtually non-existent on KD's FB group.

The feedback is mostly constructive criticism. The most detailed are often answered directly, whether by McLeod or Dubois I do not know.

And I already see the same stuff being replied to in the DP9 forums. But I will share the renders and see what folks have to say.

 warboss wrote:
I didn't notice the inset armor plates on the shoulders but, yeah, that's not right or cool. [..]

rdubois wrote:No we won't be making extra inserts for this areas in the shoulders, the plastic arms will have their new look. If customers want the older look of the metal arms they will still be available for purchase.

...erm, hokay... Guess I can stop bothering to ponder any of the whys of the visual change(s) to the various renders.

"Because we say so." it is then - the Pod God has spoken, and as per usual it's a nonsensical decision that poorly impacts yet another iconic design from the setting material.




I will keep an eye on the Design & Aesthetics thread for those interested though.

In other news, for those who want the metal miniatures cheaply, you can go here: http://www.thewarstore.com/VIKDP9Basement.html

Already bought a load of stuff I plan to review and put together.

BrandonKF wrote:
In other news, for those who want the metal miniatures cheaply, you can go here: http://www.thewarstore.com/VIKDP9Basement.html

Already bought a load of stuff I plan to review and put together.

Erm... I think they are disposing of their stock (seeing as everything is heavily discounted and that they seem to have everything there), I wouldn't say that's too good of a new for the Pod (also, not one dime will go to them, as the store already paid for that whatever time ago), because it looks like they are losing another trade acccount to me.

As a last note, good luck selling those books.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Smilodon_UP wrote:

 warboss wrote:
I didn't notice the inset armor plates on the shoulders but, yeah, that's not right or cool. [..]

rdubois wrote:No we won't be making extra inserts for this areas in the shoulders, the plastic arms will have their new look. If customers want the older look of the metal arms they will still be available for purchase.

...erm, hokay... Guess I can stop bothering to ponder any of the whys of the visual change(s) to the various renders.

Translation from Robertese: "If you don't like them, you can kindly go feth yourself, or buy more crap". That's what I end up with: not so much an explanation but a, as you rightly put it, "because I say so", or a less kind "because feth you, that's why".

I will take advantage of the stock dump.

And since most of the stuff is getting snapped up quickly, I don't doubt their sales will notice.

But I still don't see anyone here stepping up in the Terra Nova DMZ from here actually explaining their thoughts. The DMZ is open to all fans or newcomers with questions.

BrandonKF wrote:
I will take advantage of the stock dump.

And since most of the stuff is getting snapped up quickly, I don't doubt their sales will notice.

But I still don't see anyone here stepping up in the Terra Nova DMZ from here actually explaining their thoughts. The DMZ is open to all fans or newcomers with questions.

The stock dumps are a good chance to beef up collections. A few years ago, I'd be clicking those "add to cart" buttons with you. I'd say probably half my current HG collection was from fire sale purchases like that. I've got enough for now regardless both painted and unpainted. I've only got a single arena ninja cobra left for my southern army, a single left over and miscast chasseur MkII for my nucoal (from making a 5 man squad using 2 fig blisters), and about at least a dozen northern gears to work on. If I ever started back up working on my gears, it would be the white cats, kodiaks, weasels, and jaguars that would be next from that pile (roughly two each of those). Of course, the above priorities are from the blitz era rules so I don't know how that fits with the current trial stuff though. I'm not a facebooker beyond a stealth account that I use to sign up for contests (and whose password I always have to have reset/sent to me as I forget it). Did you get your blog haul from this sale then?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Albertorius wrote:

Erm... I think they are disposing of their stock (seeing as everything is heavily discounted and that they seem to have everything there), I wouldn't say that's too good of a new for the Pod (also, not one dime will go to them, as the store already paid for that whatever time ago), because it looks like they are losing another trade acccount to me.

As a last note, good luck selling those books.

Yeah, the books are pretty much wasted. I thought for a moment about getting the perfect storm one but even at 50% off the starting price is just below what the full retail price should have been. The minis though are obviously still useful regardless of edition switchover. He's a smart retailer to try and get rid of the stuff at cost since the writing is on the wall for the metal minis at the retail level. If a store is going to stock future HG products, it'll likely be just the plastics with folks having to direct order from DP9 for the rarer variants in metal. I don't think it can realistically be called as doom and gloom though until the plastics and new rules come out; if he doesn't stock the new stuff at that point then they're losing another trade account. If he had done it a year or two ago like the other big online retailers who dumped their HG stuff (wayland, miniature market, and FRP), I'd say they were losing an account. At this point though, I'd say they'd be stupid to keep their stock just sitting there. I don't have any insider knowledge of sales but I'd be shocked to find out that the plastics KS did NOT tank the sales of metals as folks wait to see what comes out (and for backers what they'll get). YMMV.

 warboss wrote:

BrandonKF wrote:
I will take advantage of the stock dump.

And since most of the stuff is getting snapped up quickly, I don't doubt their sales will notice.

But I still don't see anyone here stepping up in the Terra Nova DMZ from here actually explaining their thoughts. The DMZ is open to all fans or newcomers with questions.

The stock dumps are a good chance to beef up collections. A few years ago, I'd be clicking those "add to cart" buttons with you. I'd say probably half my current HG collection was from fire sale purchases like that. I've got enough for now regardless both painted and unpainted. I've only got a single arena ninja cobra left for my southern army, a single left over and miscast chasseur MkII for my nucoal (from making a 5 man squad using 2 fig blisters), and about at least a dozen northern gears to work on. If I ever started back up working on my gears, it would be the white cats, kodiaks, weasels, and jaguars that would be next from that pile (roughly two each of those). Of course, the above priorities are from the blitz era rules so I don't know how that fits with the current trial stuff though. I'm not a facebooker beyond a stealth account that I use to sign up for contests (and whose password I always have to have reset/sent to me as I forget it). Did you get your blog haul from this sale then?

No, my recent purchases on my blog came before. After I completed backing the Kickstarter for the Marine Tactical Unit, I realized that I still had a lot of disposable income, and I wanted to finish what I started in the year's first edition of Aurora with a Water Viper and a Water Viper Silent Running conversion. So I purchased four of those Desert Vipers, plus two Lynxes, because no one seems to have posted any painted pictures of these little guys anywhere on the Internet. The MP Cadre was another buy, though strategic, since I'll be using their frag cannons for some of the Water Vipers.

But before that, I had already arranged to purchase a pair of PBRs from Gomi Designs. Gomi didn't just send me that, but also an ASPB, so I am going through a conversion of those units at this time through the 15mm Sci-Fi Gaming group on Facebook.

All that I have reviewed somewhat.

Then I realized there was a really great Gecko Squadron on Ebay, and I purchased those.

This stock dump I purchased a lot more, and I probably will buy even more soon. I've had buku overtime these last 4 and a half weeks, and I can finally afford to purchase all these great models and show them off to the world. So, I buy and I share.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Albertorius wrote:

Erm... I think they are disposing of their stock (seeing as everything is heavily discounted and that they seem to have everything there), I wouldn't say that's too good of a new for the Pod (also, not one dime will go to them, as the store already paid for that whatever time ago), because it looks like they are losing another trade acccount to me.

As a last note, good luck selling those books.

Yeah, the books are pretty much wasted. I thought for a moment about getting the perfect storm one but even at 50% off the starting price is just below what the full retail price should have been. The minis though are obviously still useful regardless of edition switchover. He's a smart retailer to try and get rid of the stuff at cost since the writing is on the wall for the metal minis at the retail level. If a store is going to stock future HG products, it'll likely be just the plastics with folks having to direct order from DP9 for the rarer variants in metal. I don't think it can realistically be called as doom and gloom though until the plastics and new rules come out; if he doesn't stock the new stuff at that point then they're losing another trade account. If he had done it a year or two ago like the other big online retailers who dumped their HG stuff (wayland, miniature market, and FRP), I'd say they were losing an account. At this point though, I'd say they'd be stupid to keep their stock just sitting there. I don't have any insider knowledge of sales but I'd be shocked to find out that the plastics KS did NOT tank the sales of metals as folks wait to see what comes out (and for backers what they'll get). YMMV.

As of right now, the discussion in Facebook has been explained by Mr. Dubois as plastics being very few on parts, more as a way to introduce people to Heavy Gear with relatively simple builds. Plus, some models just wouldn't do well if they were multi-part kits (the Cheetah, for example, would not look great if its legs were chopped up into halves or thirds for greater flexibility in posing, not when it's less than 28mm tall) We're discussing other options for heavier conversions later on, but nothing concrete just yet. Still, both the Cheetah and the Ferret are being sent back to the modeler for work.

In the meantime, some of the static poses will require actual chopwork. I'm open to others' suggestions about using metal leg kits to give variety to the posing.

As for the books, thanks for reminding me. I'll have to see about purchasing them. Considering that an Infinity 3rd edition book with an authorized bounty hunter miniature is $68.99, though, I'll have to disagree with you on agreed pricing. Clearly, the cost of paper and print is more than most people bargain for in this day and age (another reason to be grateful for the new updates to the 5.0 edition of HGB).

-Brandon F.

BrandonKF wrote:
As for the books, thanks for reminding me. I'll have to see about purchasing them. Considering that an Infinity 3rd edition book with an authorized bounty hunter miniature is $68.99, though, I'll have to disagree with you on agreed pricing. Clearly, the cost of paper and print is more than most people bargain for in this day and age (another reason to be grateful for the new updates to the 5.0 edition of HGB).

-Brandon F.

When doing a price comparison, it's probably best to use full retail. The field guides for Heavy Gear are $55 for TPS (136 pages) and $60 for FIF (176 pages) at 11.00 x 8.50 inches. N3 is a double book set (180 and 275 pages) with a slip case for $75 and 12.2 x 8.4 inches. They're both full color and soft covers but the N3 has a significantly higher page count despite a slightly larger page size, is glossy while the HG books are matte and has a slip case as well as the included (for now) mini that at infinity prices is probably at least $15 if not more. You simply get ALOT more for your $75 objectively speaking with the N3 book and that is before we get into purely subjective things like fluff, utility, and rules quality. The Heavy Gear books are both OVER twice as expensive per page and that isn't even including the gloss, slipcase, and mini in the equation at all for Infinity. There are things I can't compare since I don't own the infinity book like the paper weight/thickness but I seriously doubt that this single factor would more than double the value for the HG side of the equation. Simply put, the HG books were way too expensive for what you got objectively speaking compared with the similar offerings from other companies other than maybe GW.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrandonKF wrote:
But before that, I had already arranged to purchase a pair of PBRs from Gomi Designs. Gomi didn't just send me that, but also an ASPB, so I am going through a conversion of those units at this time through the 15mm Sci-Fi Gaming group on Facebook.

All that I have reviewed somewhat.

Then I realized there was a really great Gecko Squadron on Ebay, and I purchased those.

This stock dump I purchased a lot more, and I probably will buy even more soon. I've had buku overtime these last 4 and a half weeks, and I can finally afford to purchase all these great models and show them off to the world. So, I buy and I share.

Congrats on the gaming slush fund! I'm not familiar with PBRs or Gomi but I do know of Infinity Geckos (they're quite nice!). If I did have a complaint about Infinity minis besides the occasional cheesecake or way too weird design, it would be that they give you little to no alternate weapons in the kits. If would have loved visually to have a pair of geckos with the Mk12 guns but it looks like you only get one and the other only has a different loadout. I don't know which one is more effective in game but the mk12 definitely works better for me visually. YMMV.

I think I'll get the books anyway, see what's what.

And yes, the Gecko Squadron comes with 1 of each. They don't come in singles, unless somebody splits boxes.

The Mk 12 is the single weapon, the other dual wields combi rifles.

I give a review here:

http://heavygearthunder.blogspot.com/2015/06/infinity-geckos-up.html

The Gomi Designs are from the United Kingdom. My review for them is here:

http://heavygearthunder.blogspot.com/2015/06/unboxing-gomi-designs-patrol-boats.html

As far as which Gecko is more effective, really, I read most people saying to think of them as heavy infantry with extra Armor. The dual combi rifles might be more effective against light infantry, while the Mk 12 is a mid-range bruiser. Nothing long-range here, which means no trying to take any other TAGs in long-distance sniper engagements.

Whoa, your blog looked changed from the last time I was there. Nice! In any case regarding the HG books, beauty is in the eye of the beholder and such. Like I said, at 50% I was even tempted to get the TPS because I liked the field guide layout format and squad/model page design. At that discount, it pretty much evens out with infinity's $ per page calculations and that's before throwing in the subjective stuff like being a HG fan.

I'll have to peek at your geckos as that article wasn't up the last time I swung by. Have you tried out N3? I've been trying to pick it up over the last week or two and have been watching a bunch of battle and "learning infinity" videos. I even started stripping/scrubbing my 28mm VOTOMS to use as tags as I have tried out unsuccessfully some paint jobs on them last year.

Thanks for the compliments on the blog layout.

No, sadly, haven't had time to try out N3. In fact, purchasing these rules will officially make it the first time I've purchased 'the rules' from Infinity, rather than relying on their free ones. I'm curious. It is, of course, going to cost me a pretty penny, but since I can afford it for the moment, I figure I might as well.

As far as actually playing, I would need some opponents. I think there might be a few folks around Houston who are interested, including those within our current group for Heavy Gear, who wouldn't mind having a go with these new rules, but they are truly a lot more intensive, and just like you, I've had to open up some of the learning Infinity battle reports to get a proper feel.

Not only that, but I would need some of that slick terrain, which is an additional expenditure which I am debating at the moment.

Weighing all the options at this point and figuring on what is worth taking and what isn't, because ultimately, while I have the funds, I want to save my money in any 'extreme emergency' situations, and still cover all my bills.

For now though, it appears as though you'll be reading a lot more from me on my blog, and be getting a lot more pictures in the future as well.

On thing you could always do is to just paint up little boxes and stack them as needed. Either paint or glue ladders and stairs and such and you've got a decent amount of terrain you could probably use for heavy gear in a pinch as well. If you get the Icestorm starter box, one thing they did is make those cardstock buildings in there the exact size of the infinity squad boxes so you literally stick your old boxes like from the geckos into the cardstock ones to make them alot sturdier.

Maybe it's because I've been so used to Heavy Gear "terms" so long but Infinity does feel from an outsider's perspective alot more dense. The sheer amount of terms is daunting but I'm muddling my way through the multispectral visors to the TO camo to even more exotic sounding kinematika. If you haven't already, the beasts of war youtube Icestorm and N3 week videos (two separate weeks last year) are quite good. I actually understood most of what was going on in the full 300pt 2 hour game video by the end of both of the series.

Truthfully? To me, it's a hell of a lot more dense. Heavy Gear often plays with maybe half the board covered. Infinity can have up to 70 percent or more, and still I see people who can play out a 150 or 200 point game in less than an hour, and sometimes even less if things get really nasty really quickly.

I've collected so much garbage though, thinking it would look good for terrain, but never getting around to actually making the terrain, that I'm almost tempted to just buy the pre-made stuff and call it a day. Lazy of me, but there it is all the same.

The one good thing about all these projects and blog posts is that it encourages me to keep the tempo up, it sets a record of just how quickly I can produce the material for others to enjoy and for myself to be satisfied.

 Albertorius wrote:

Erm... I think they are disposing of their stock (seeing as everything is heavily discounted and that they seem to have everything there).

This is the second time I've seen the Warstore dump their stock - I made out like a bandit the last time, significantly bulking up my northern forces. Like then, stuff was going for 50% off - and they were subtly critical of the product then. I have to wonder if this is a natural cycle for slow-moving stock, or if they will consider having to go through this a process a second time a non-starter for any future investment in the line. Time will tell, I suppose.

Nomeny wrote:

Very well said. The plastic is going to help expand the game and put it on a good track. It's not going to invalidate metal models, or previous editions of the rules. Even if it's not exactly what old grognards may have personally wanted, it's great for developing a community and the game.

It depends - the plastics just put the game on equal footing with other offerings. A successful wargame needs both good sculpts and good rules to have a long life, and in essence the latest offering is working towards new variations of both those assets. Personally, I find the aesthetics of the plastics off - they don't contain the wow factor that the metals did, for various reasons. I'm not sure that I'd be as instantly smitten by the renders as I was by Phil's metal renditions many years back. Sure, a good paint job and the end product will tell - but my suspicion is that these don't have the same appeal as the metals and so will make pushing the game a bit harder.

HG is already competing in a tough market - Battletech locks up the 'massive mech' genre, Infinity is effectively dominating the high-end market, and DMZ is going fairly strong in the battle market. Having lack-luster models - even if they are plastic, and therefore cheap - may not help carve out a segment from those other companies and may leave the Pod in a worse spot than it was. The new rules were intended to be a way to jump the company firmly into the battle segment, but they can't carry the game themselves.

I'll be interested to see what the final results of the plastic production looks like. But for now, it looks like I'm going to prefer my existing metals to the new designs.

I do hope that they price both the eventual retail starter set and individual model/squad boxes competitively with similar offerings unlike with the field guide examples above. The books were simply way too expensive for what they gave you compared to similar offerings and I hope that isn't the route they choose to take with the models post kickstarter. I don't expect nor should the retail price be as low as the likely year ahead of time or more KS special price but the statement during the KS that they'd be priced according to the market worries me a little bit. I wouldn't put it past the pod to say that their plastics are equivalent to other companies metals/resin and price them accordingly with an end result of having the squads and armies for HG stay at about the same cost of entry outside of the starter. I sincerely hope that I'm wrong in that regard as I think cost of entry was one of several big barriers to folks picking up Heavy Gear.

 IceRaptor wrote:
[..] Personally, I find the aesthetics of the plastics off - they don't contain the wow factor that the metals did, for various reasons. I'm not sure that I'd be as instantly smitten by the renders as I was by Phil's metal renditions many years back. Sure, a good paint job and the end product will tell - but my suspicion is that these don't have the same appeal as the metals and so will make pushing the game a bit harder.

[..] Having lack-luster models - even if they are plastic, and therefore cheap - may not help carve out a segment from those other companies and may leave the Pod in a worse spot than it was. The new rules were intended to be a way to jump the company firmly into the battle segment, but they can't carry the game themselves.

[..] But for now, it looks like I'm going to prefer my existing metals to the new designs.

While the initial renders had some potential, and some HG:Assault models have a few interesting features, overall I'd agree there doesn't seem to be the same "grab factor " in the model designs anymore between the most recent metal offerings, the Kickstarter, and the Pod supported PC-game effort.

The supposed inability to mold certain features due to drafting (or "reasons") seems questionable, because effort was specifically made to include the spikes of all things found on Southern models - yet somehow other features that I'd expect to be easier to mold cannot be kept on the new renders.

BrandonKF wrote:
[..] But I still don't see anyone here stepping up in the Terra Nova DMZ from here actually explaining their thoughts. The DMZ is open to all fans or newcomers with questions.

You never seem quite able to grasp that folks might want to discuss miniatures in a very active miniature gaming forum, and that they might be tuning you out every time you try to push them towards a venue other than the one they're already using.


Or at least not one(s) potentially still subject to moderation at the whims of company supporters and/or the company itself, not to mention that yes, there really are people who just don't like facebook which should be reason enough for you on its own.
And do you constantly post on Steel Paladin's forum, or the few other similar forums/blogs, how everyone there should "step up" and only be talking on facebook or the official Pod forums? Nope.

The G+ community would probably have worked out equally as well as FB for the Pod, if the company had ever once given any support or presence - but TPTB chose not to, and things are what they are.


Constantly making an appeal to authority your main, if not only, point of view rather than participating in the discussion folks are actually having about certain points probably doesn't help either.

Nor does language setting yourself above everyone else, whether intentional or not:
_
_
edit(s): grammar! - In case anyone is checking.

 Smilodon_UP wrote:
edit(s): grammar! - In case anyone is checking.

This message was edited 6 times.

We are, and it does affect your final grade.

I am curious what others would say counts as grab factor for them.

I think the most obvious would be the Dougram/VOTOMs vibe to the models, particularly the Dougram big-feet/armour style that they have going. It seems like they take advantage of some humanoid design features rather than try to hand-wave them away.

BrandonKF wrote:
I am curious what others would say counts as grab factor for them.

We like big feet, and we cannot lie.

 Firebreak wrote:

BrandonKF wrote:
I am curious what others would say counts as grab factor for them.

We like big feet, and we cannot lie.

I thought it went "we like butt plates and we cannot lie... you other pilots can't deny... when a gear sms's in with an itty bitty waist... and an armor plate in your face... LACs get slung..."

Yes... I went there..

Those are going on my blog, and I'm quoting all of you.

Legendary.

warboss wrote:

 Firebreak wrote:

BrandonKF wrote:
I am curious what others would say counts as grab factor for them.

We like big feet, and we cannot lie.

I thought it went "we like butt plates and we cannot lie... you other pilots can't deny... when a gear sms's in with an itty bitty waist... and an armor plate in your face... LACs get slung..."

Yes... I went there..

BrandonKF wrote:Those are going on my blog, and I'm quoting all of you.

Legendary.

Man knows his Gear sausage, I tell you what.

I have to say this is not surprisingly the first time I'm been recognized for my freestylin' skills. Shia Leboufe, move over! Thanks.

I am impressed by the freestyling.

So, aside from the feet and buttplate, what else counts for grab factor?

Did you take a look at smilodon's thread firebreak linked in his post? It has alot of answers that don't sound like fetish jokes.