Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Are named characters cc weapons taken into account on their stat lines or do they get added bonus for two cc weapons. For example Tigirius has a bolt pistol and a force staff does he get the 2 attacks in his stat line or 3 for the extra weapons? The only reason I ask is they do add some things to the stat lines of some characters and others it seems like they don't.

The codex usually tells you if they already add something to the statline. Otherwise it is assumed that they haven't and so 2-weapons does give an extra attack.

Bal4eva wrote:
Are named characters cc weapons taken into account on their stat lines or do they get added bonus for two cc weapons. For example Tigirius has a bolt pistol and a force staff does he get the 2 attacks in his stat line or 3 for the extra weapons?

If it is, the entry will specifically say as much.

Bal4eva wrote:
The only reason I ask is they do add some things to the stat lines of some characters and others it seems like they don't.

Can you give us an example of what things you believe have already been added to the stat line?

 Ghaz wrote:

Bal4eva wrote:
Are named characters cc weapons taken into account on their stat lines or do they get added bonus for two cc weapons. For example Tigirius has a bolt pistol and a force staff does he get the 2 attacks in his stat line or 3 for the extra weapons?

If it is, the entry will specifically say as much.

Bal4eva wrote:
The only reason I ask is they do add some things to the stat lines of some characters and others it seems like they don't.

Can you give us an example of what things you believe have already been added to the stat line?

Chaos marks, VotLW and sempiternal weave are some that i know of.

 M0ff3l wrote:
Chaos marks, VotLW and sempiternal weave are some that i know of.

From page 30 of Codex Chaos Space Marines:

When Veterans of the Long War is listed in a unit's special rules, the Leadership increase will already have been taken into account in it's profile.

When a Mark of Chaos is listed in a unit's special rules, its effects will have already been taken into account in its profile, where applicable.

So they're specifically noted that its been added to the stat line. Sempiternal weave is just sloppy writing on GWs part which doesn't have an affect on the game as either way they have a 2+ Armour Save.

Yes thank you for proving that the marks and votlw are already taken into account?

And this whole topic is because of sloppy writing and inconsistency on GWs part. So why is the sempiternal weave a surprise? (Also they would likely not have a 2+ armour save).

 M0ff3l wrote:
Yes thank you for proving that the marks and votlw are already taken into account?

And you did read where I said if they were already added to the stat line, it would specifically say so? Both Veterans of the Long War and the Marks of Chaos specifically say so.

 Ghaz wrote:

 M0ff3l wrote:
Yes thank you for proving that the marks and votlw are already taken into account?

And you did read where I said if they were already added to the stat line, it would specifically say so? Both Veterans of the Long War and the Marks of Chaos specifically say so.

My bad for quoting your entire post, my response was to your second quote and your second response. The OP clearly says that some things are factored in (marks, votlw and sempiternal weave), but some are not (attacks from multiple melee weapons).

But it's not clear if those models would have a 2+ armour save without the sempiternal weave or not. Does the model get a 2+ save because of the weave, or does the model already have a 2+ armour save and the weave is redundant?

If the 2+ is on the profile, the Sempiternal Weave is effectively redundant.

Ghaz,
Does it state it is included in the Profile?
Wouldn't be the first redundant piece of war-gear, even if it rates a little more unusual then most.

 Ghaz wrote:
But it's not clear if those models would have a 2+ armour save without the sempiternal weave or not. Does the model get a 2+ save because of the weave, or does the model already have a 2+ armour save and the weave is redundant?

Does a named chaos character have 9LD or 10LD without votlw? (As in, if his LD gets reduced by 1 does it stay 10 (do the bonusses cancel eachother out) or does it go to 9)? Thats not clear either... As a regular chaos lord has 10 ld.

JinxDragon wrote:
Ghaz,
Does it state it is included in the Profile?
Wouldn't be the first redundant piece of war-gear, even if it rates a little more unusual then most.

No, which is my point. Nothing says it is or is not in the profile so we default to it not being in the profile and it's redundant wargear.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 M0ff3l wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:
But it's not clear if those models would have a 2+ armour save without the sempiternal weave or not. Does the model get a 2+ save because of the weave, or does the model already have a 2+ armour save and the weave is redundant?

Does a named chaos character have 9LD or 10LD without votlw? (As in, if his LD gets reduced by 1 does it stay 10 (do the bonusses cancel eachother out) or does it go to 9)? Thats not clear either... As a regular chaos lord has 10 ld.

Again, from page 30 of Codex Chaos Space Marines:

When Veterans of the Long War is listed in a unit's special rules, the Leadership increase will already have been taken into account in it's profile.

So we have no indication as to what his Leadership would be without Veterans of the Long War since Leadership is capped at 10. So what's your point?

 Ghaz wrote:

JinxDragon wrote:
Ghaz,
Does it state it is included in the Profile?
Wouldn't be the first redundant piece of war-gear, even if it rates a little more unusual then most.

No, which is my point. Nothing says it is or is not in the profile so we default to it not being in the profile and it's redundant wargear.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 M0ff3l wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:
But it's not clear if those models would have a 2+ armour save without the sempiternal weave or not. Does the model get a 2+ save because of the weave, or does the model already have a 2+ armour save and the weave is redundant?

Does a named chaos character have 9LD or 10LD without votlw? (As in, if his LD gets reduced by 1 does it stay 10 (do the bonusses cancel eachother out) or does it go to 9)? Thats not clear either... As a regular chaos lord has 10 ld.

Again, from page 30 of Codex Chaos Space Marines:

When Veterans of the Long War is listed in a unit's special rules, the Leadership increase will already have been taken into account in it's profile.

So we have no indication as to what his Leadership would be without Veterans of the Long War since Leadership is capped at 10. So what's your point?

Again thank you for proving my point is true, by the way i have the csm codex and i know where what is stated, so i dont really get why you keep quoting it. The point I was making, even tho some items state in their description that they are already counted into the profile. Its not always clear what the original stat was.

VotlW states that it is factored in, but as ld 10 is max, does the character originally have ld 9 or 10?
Sempiternal weave does not state it is factored in, but the profile has 2+ sv. Is it original 3+ or 2+?

And this is ofcourse relevent when say your warlord is typhus and you take cypher in your army. Is typhus ld 10 or 9?

And what was your point? How does not knowing what the base stat was have anything to do with whether or not the the bonuses to a stat are listed in a model's profile? Perhaps if you were a little more clear on what you're trying to say I wouldn't have to keep repeating the rules that you say you know.

 Ghaz wrote:
And what was your point? How does not knowing what the base stat was have anything to do with whether or not the the bonuses to a stat are listed in a model's profile? Perhaps if you were a little more clear on what you're trying to say I wouldn't have to keep repeating the rules that you say you know.

And this is ofcourse relevent when say your warlord is typhus and you take cypher in your army. Is typhus ld 10 or 9?

can you not read? I speficially mention a case were it is relevent to know the pre-modified stat of a character.

And yet again, what is your point? How does not knowing what its a pre-modified stat is change the fact that the rule clearly states that the bonus is already added? What it's pre-modified stat is not mentioned in the rulebook and with Leadership being capped at 10, it could be either 9 or 10 but we have no definitive answer without a statement from GW. So what does that have to do with the OP's question?

 Ghaz wrote:
And yet again, what is your point? How does not knowing what its a pre-modified stat is change the fact that the rule clearly states that the bonus is already added? What it's pre-modified stat is not mentioned in the rulebook and with Leadership being capped at 10, it could be either 9 or 10 but we have no definitive answer without a statement from GW. So what does that have to do with the OP's question?

OPs question was answered with the first post, after that you derailed it asking for stuff that OP thought was already factored into statlines. When I gave you 3 examples you started bitching about how they said it in the rules (which was relevant to show the OP that if stat changes are shown in the statline they will state it) and one where you just blamed it on GWs inconsistencies, which newsflash, most questions about rules originate from such inconsistencies.

I'm not the one who derailed the thread, thank you. I asked the OP a relevant question when he stated he thought that some things seemed to be added to the profile already and some had not and asked him which he believed had already been added to the stat line. If you have a problem with somebody's post, you use the 'Notify Moderator' button.

 Ghaz wrote:
I'm not the one who derailed the thread, thank you. I asked the OP a relevant question when he stated he thought that some things seemed to be added to the profile already and some had not and asked him which he believed had already been added to the stat line. If you have a problem with somebody's post, you use the 'Notify Moderator' button.

Whats the point in asking the OP what things he believes are already factored in the statline, if your response to him had been similar to the response you gave to me? here let me be a smartass and quote the page numbers of things you already know are factored in, and as for the other thing thats just GWs fault. yay great? Now what? we learned nothing from that, so infact you derailed the thread.

 M0ff3l wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:
I'm not the one who derailed the thread, thank you. I asked the OP a relevant question when he stated he thought that some things seemed to be added to the profile already and some had not and asked him which he believed had already been added to the stat line. If you have a problem with somebody's post, you use the 'Notify Moderator' button.

Whats the point in asking the OP what things he believes are already factored in the statline, if your response to him had been similar to the response you gave to me? here let me be a smartass and quote the page numbers of things you already know are factored in, and as for the other thing thats just GWs fault. yay great? Now what? we learned nothing from that, so infact you derailed the thread.

My responses were appropriate to the forum rules, thank you. Without knowing what army he was playing, he may have missed rules like Veterans of the Long War which did specify that it was already added to the profile. Again, if you have a problem with somebody's post, use the 'Notify Moderator' button instead of trying to start an argument.