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Wow. I just... wow. I can understand differences of opinion, and I can understand that no one game can appeal to everyone, but to suggest that Infinity has poor art direction, and that it could be improved by changing to be more like 40K... That's just beyond the pale.

You mean you guys don't consider Logan and his sleigh to be the pinnacle of model design?

Pfft, amateurs.

No, this is a brilliant idea!
You could have an Aleph hero riding a ferocious Internet, a Nomad sorcerer riding the abstract concept of non-conformity, the possibilities are really limitless.
Also, they could dump all the subtle carefully designed elements that tie each faction together and make Yu Jing the "everyone has a huge flaming katana" faction, Pan O could be the "enormous shoulder pads with missiles on them" faction. I could go on, but every good designer reading this can see the direction I'm going.

 Vermis wrote:

Noir wrote:
@zlayer 25%+ growth year after year and nearly 75% growth last year for CB, says your wrong. CB don't needs and likely don't want the "wow, look at all the oversized extras (pad, weapons, ext.) are on the model, it's the best" crowd.

So successful that they just discontinued their historical ranges (how many of you knew CB sold historical minis?) to concentrate on it, and scuppered my plans for 15mm GoT. Thanks a bunch, Corvus Belli.

Stupid question, but is Infinity still about having grunts cheer Superman as he demolishes the enemy?

Or has the game moved to something whereby everybody gets a shot to contribute?

Cheerleading is diminished but still possible. With the 3rd edition coming out it's getting worse as you can isolate certain models types from the order pool with both hackers and em weapons.

It is still an issue, but it's far, far riskier. It also helps to use the amount of terrain shown in the example games and pictures and not overload the table too badly. If you can hide all your cheerleaders and make sure your rambo only can have face to face rolls against one enemy at a time, then that's probably too much terrain.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 Vermis wrote:

Noir wrote:
@zlayer 25%+ growth year after year and nearly 75% growth last year for CB, says your wrong. CB don't needs and likely don't want the "wow, look at all the oversized extras (pad, weapons, ext.) are on the model, it's the best" crowd.

So successful that they just discontinued their historical ranges (how many of you knew CB sold historical minis?) to concentrate on it, and scuppered my plans for 15mm GoT. Thanks a bunch, Corvus Belli.

Stupid question, but is Infinity still about having grunts cheer Superman as he demolishes the enemy?

Or has the game moved to something whereby everybody gets a shot to contribute?

That is a valid tactic but by no means the only one. It is also a risky tactic if you don't bring a second in command as a 80 point rambo can still take an unlucky crit and fall on a 8 point cheerleader's knife. Also in tourney play tabling your opponent is a draw, you need to go after objectives so you can't OLY have a rambo and cheerleader.

I believe there was an issue with people doing that with TAGs though I've never seen it personally, but 3rd ed is about to hit and removing TAGs from that role and putting them in a mid range fire support role is one of the main changes coming.

Okay, I think the negative comments against zlayer77's ideas on how to "fix" Infinity proves the point that people like the models as they are now and your idea of making them distinct will piss current players off.

Thanks, guys.

I probably would not.. It's so expensive and the rules are a mess..

 plastictrees wrote:
I've rarely read someone speak on a topic that they are so poorly informed on, and I've been on the internet for a while.

Completely agree. I don't think there is a single post I have disagreed more with, during the entire time I have been posting on this forum. If Dakka had a 'post rating' system similar to the one implemented by Beasts of War, I think zlayer77 would have something like -400 right now

Just.. no.

zlayer77 wrote:
My point has always been that you should not have to Write an Essay to convince people to buy into a game..
Take my local gaming group for example (a dussin people), we are all X 40k and WHF players.. Nobody had to convince anny of us to start GW games back in the day the miniatures looks fething Awsome, and that got us to start reading the lore and that was also Awsome = we where hooked
We left GW games back in 2010-2011 because of the rules, and we looked at diffrent games the one that popped out first was Warmachine/Hordes, why? because the miniatures looked decent enough and some were even kinda cool..
Now we have the Infinity problem, they dont Jump out at you, Most people I have talked to (even people playing the game), dont think the miniatures is the main selling point of the game.. Warmachine/hordes, Warzone, Malifaux are all Skrimish games but they manages to atleast mix up the aesthetics of their games a bit from Faction to Faction...
I personaly think Corvus belli just need to redesign their Miniatures for the greater good (they have the talent for it, they just need to understand that their game is underpreforming because they have failed to design them correctly. There is alot of lost revenue because of this...
.

and yet the Infinity factions do stand out from each other. or are you trying to say the celestial guard and caledonian volunteers are identical? I think folks have demonstrated how, and why the Infinity factions make sense internally, and are representative of a wide range of units that remain consistent both within the subfaction, and across the whole faction. If you cant, or refuse to see it, then i dont know what to say.

Regarding GW games, when we started about ten years ago, you have to understand that (a) we were ten years younger and (b) there really wasnt much else out there, nor was that information readily accessible. the alternative to 40k was WFB for the most part. the aesthetics were OK, but being honest about it, they're also quite one dimensional. A Space Marine is a Space Marine.
Warmachine/Hordes. What got me to throw my hat into the ring and be serious with it was the worldwide beta test at the start of mk2. great minis, awesome fluff and great rules and i've got my game.

you have a smallgroup that doesnt like the aesthetics. thats all well and good, but i know dozens of folks who love the infinity aesthetics. I dont see anything about them "underperforming" anywhere.

zlayer77 wrote:
I want the smaller Games to succeed and someone needs to tell Corvus Belli that they need to change their miniature lines, Because if they dont they will remain a small alternative game and never hit it big... this is just fact there are not enough Militarary/vets and Anime fans too suport the line if it wants to hit it big.. Those fans will still remain with the game if they made 1 faction look like Modern Army soldiers..

One more thing the reason so many people like Ariadna(someone posted they are one of the more popular Factions). Is that it is one of the better designed factions, For example if I was going to pick any Faction in infinity to play it would be Ariadna, they have the clearest design with the Kilts and wolfs to make it stand out from the rest of the rabble...
..

"rabble"? their miniature line is fine. sales and company growth back this up.
So its only military/vets and anime fans that can like them? its a bigger fanbase than that. and fyi, i've got a few mates that love Nomads and Yu-Jing for their aesthetics, and arent bothered about ariadna.

zlayer77 wrote:
What is important to understand is that Design, same as art has rules, there are dos and donts.. advertising has known this for years. If you look at Car design, Clothing design or Hell just look att Coca Cola... You need to understand Design to make good miniatures. Sculpting Talent alone wont help you, you need a good designer that know what they are doing.. Corvus Belli have good Sculpters and painters but they seem to lack Designers... Because anybody with any schooling in arts and design would have told these dudes NO NO we cant do it like this it will hurt our sales, 7+ identical Factions is BAD idea Period... This is very sad and it is holding them back from really breaking into the mainstream of Table top gaming...
.

they're not identical though, so that torpedos your whole argument. Pan-O heavy armour is distinct from Yu-Jing and Nomad. etc. And I'd argue they're already in the mainstream. A lot of people have heard of them, and more and more are buying in. cheap buy in really helps, and CB are very well positioned to be a lot of peoples "game on the side".
A lot of people will tell you quite the opposite, and that in fact, CB are doing it right.

zlayer77 wrote:
And to Corvus Belli Start Making big Monsters.. And put Big armour on one of your factions NOW because we want to play your game but your miniatures are so bland that We do not GO WOW I must have this NOW!! Good rules are nice but It would also be Cool if you made some gak that most of us, No the Minority, wanted to paint and play with hehe

If more people would buy a SCI FI miniatures game if it had BIG monsters and Cool Armoured Soldiers, and even a faction with Spec OPS( I think spec ops are cool just not 7+ Faction with them, one or two will be enough to get people who like it to get that Faction)..
..

Maybe they dont want big monsters? Wanting a faction based around a single idea(ie a SPECIAL FORCES faction) is both silly and short sighted because you end up with boring, and homogenous, and leaves you very little room for expansion, and new ideas. In any case, those Special Forces models were central to their Campaign: Paradiso book.

zlayer77 wrote:
But I want to play Infinity but the Miniatures are stopping me from getting anyone interested in the game.. Is this so damn hard to understand? You have to serch long and hard to find anyone willing to give it shoot.. And the answer I keep getting from people are " The miniatures just dont do it for me, they look bland jada jada"

apparently, yes. i have no problem getting folks to play infinity. from my close friends, half a dozen play. and thats one small group in this city. And i know of a few other groups that are also actively playing.

zlayer77 wrote:
This is not acceptable, and dont give me the bull about diffrent folks diffrent strokes etc... It is not good when alot of people are opting out of buying your products because they "dont do it for them".. coca cola would not accept this! and corvus Belli should not either. And it is high time they did something about it...

different strokes and different folks does count though. yours is not the only opinion that counts. It sounds like youre annoyed that a game is being successful by pushing designs you dont like and you're uncomfortable with that?

their sales figures suggest more and more people are "opting in", rather than "opting out".

zlayer77 wrote:
The whole point of Diffrent Factions is to broaden your potential customer base.. Making all your gak looks the same is a horrible aproche to table top gaming pure and simple...
We WANT TO PLAY INFINITY but the design is stopping us.. that is lost revenue for Corvus belli.. That could get fix by "selling out" if they designed some gak that appeals to more people...
It is not a BAD thing to broaden the appeal of your product line it is just good Buissness...

but they dont look the same.

zlayer77 wrote:
The game is good and that has helped them to grow.. but to get even more people into the game they need to change up the miniatures more... Because even if you have not come across them, there are alot of us who do not like the Art design.. and think it is a design mess

or maybe they would shrug, stick to what they know, and what they obviously like doing, and stick to a proven model that provides year on year growth and increasing sales rather that do a complete about turn because some swede on the internet doesnt like their aesthetics.

zlayer77 wrote:
And if they threw in Big monsters and, Flashed out the Factions better would you Dudes stop playing the game? if your beloved spec ops where still there but maybe limited to say half the factions? I think NOT.. and then the people like me who like big monsters could also get into the FUN....

here you display your lack of knowledge. the whole point was that the Spec Ops were a big part of all the factions, and their third book Operation Paradiso and the Paradiso campaign was based around them. Only having some spec ops for some factions is designing a faction in 40k without heavy support, just for aesthetic differences.

the factions are quite well fleshed out at this point. read the fluff. And Big Monsters wont necessarily make it better.

Here's the thing. Basing the factions around a single idea as you suggest elsewhere is stifling in terms of creativity. Wrapping factions around a single concept and spamming that is not the same as "fleshing things out".

zlayer77 wrote:
Ps: Big Monsters are also totaly in line with "anime" style if they are going for that... so it would not break the lore.. But more BIG STUFF, I do like the Big things in infinity but there is just not enough of it.. and It would not hurt to FIX that alien faction that mostly look human (accept that cool sniper that looks like its crawling on the ground)... more diversity would not hurt the game that is one of the points I am trying to make here.. Flash out the Factions, and make them more unique and even more people will start playing...

Big monsters might be in line with the anime style, but they're completely inappropriate for a small scale skirmish game (which is what Infinity is) based around a special forces team. Leave the monsters for the large battle games, and let them do it. CB is carving out its own niche.

zlayer77 wrote:
But unlike you I dont think the current customer Base would get "pissed off", Many play infinity just because there is nothing better to play...and they want the SCI FI, and they have left 40k because of the rules..
..

I do. And tell me, do you know for a fact that "Many" Infinity players play because "thereis nothing better to play". I, and many of my friends got into it because of the stunning models. the game helps tremendously, but the aesthetics are stunning.

zlayer77 wrote:
The same goes for Warmachine/hordes the Main reason me and everyone I know play Privateer press games is because of the rules, "And the Miniatures are acceptable", But they do not make me go OMG I must have this because it is so dam cool.. It is more "OMG this thing has these rules I need it to beat my opponent". I buy the miniatures because of the rules its has not because I think it is cool...
.

look at the PP boards whenever they put up the previews for new model releases. the line that "the miniatures are acceptable" and a bit of an afterthought is bunk for a lot of players. I look forward to the new shinies.

zlayer77 wrote:
Sadly 40k and WHF still make me go OMG that is so cool, and then I have to constrain meself and remind myself the rules suck, and even if the miniatures are aswome it will not be fun to play the game....

thats... not... what i thought when i saw GWs most recent offerings. Santa Grimnar? Centurions? Murderfang? Orkanaughts are ridiculous. the new Stormtroopers are hideous compared to Kasrkin. the Khorne lawnmower? Etcetera.

zlayer77 wrote:
Well we live across the world from one another, but the people I have asked who play it around here mostly say the same thing " I want to play a SCI FI game and Infinity was the best i could find on the market if I dident want to play 40k"....

And in my closest gaming group about a dussin people nobody wants to give it a shot because they dont like the Faction design..:( I dont like it either but I'm not overjoyed with Privateer press either. My gargantuan looks like he is reaching for an ICE cream cone hehe but I can live with it if the game is good...

a dozen people is a very small sample though. I've got a few dozen here in a small city who do like it. Go figure...

zlayer77 wrote:

Well I don't want a 40k clone I just want a cleary designed Faction were everything at a galanze seems to FIT...
Making a decent Faction design is not a bad thing, and If you ask around in your local infinity Playing Groups:
Would you stop playing if Corvus Belli stopped mixing alot of diffrent themse in every Factions.. For example if they redesigned the Ariadna Faction (dropped all the French stuff) and focused only on more Wolfs and Kilts, and english looking spec ops, And made a large WOLF on a hughe base that looked super Awsome.. And had for example WOLF riders (as Ariadnas Bikes) would you quit infinity?
Or made that Haqqislam faction more "dessert looking" with Cool desert snakes as pets that could jump out and eat people.. they could even have a dude riding a giant Desert snake. would you quit infinity?
It dosen't take much but changes like that would Flash out the Factions and make them more uniqe and would in my mind help the game alot.. And Who dosen't like big monsters??

youd kill the game. you say you dont want a 40k clone but thats precicely what you talk about here. Cb want to appeal to adults, not kids who watch Pokemon.

WHat you call a "clearly designed faction" i call homogenous and boring. Like i said, in terms of creativity, its stifling to base a faction around a single idea eg "everything about this faction is kilts and werewolves".. I know ten year Blood Angels veterans who dropped their new codex like a rock because everything was a "blood"noun with blood fists, blood missiles, blood blades etc. I dropped my Space Wolves for similar reasons, and i know a few others who cant take them seriously anymore. their third ed codex was "Space Marines with a Viking/Wolf flavour". Now their wolf-vikings with a space marine flavour, with everything being a "wolf"noun, "fang"noun and "claw"noun. even their flyers look like wolf heads and then you have the amomination of Grimnar's sled? Its cheesy, silly and childish.

Would i stop playing Infinity if they did that to the game? Boil Ariadna down to a single idea "wolves and kilts", and putting in silly ideas like wolf riders and giant wolves turns a cool faction into a silly kiddies saturday morning cartoon. No thanks.

Turning Haqqislam from the progressive, advanced, philosophical renaissance muslims that echo the glories of Suleiman's Caliphate into a faction boiled down to being a dude riding a giant snake and snakes that eat people is just as silly. christ, thats not even good enough to be a bad silly kiddies saturday morning cartoon.

What you call "fleshing out the factions" isnt actually fleshing them out. It doesnt make them unique so much as it makes them a charicature, and a joke.

Well said. When I got into gw (nearly 20 years ago) they genuinely were the only real option And 10 year old me loved eeverything. Now a lot of gw stuff just looks silly. On the other hand the infinitt range looks stunning. The only reason I don't play yet is because I've got 3 other projects to finish first.

I certainly wouldn't touch a warewolf in kilts army (and I own a kilt), or a snake rider army, or giant monsters. I got out of gw to get away from yhat sort of thing.

I've just got done painting some of my Operation: Icestorm Nomads and I decided to have a look at my old Adeptus Arbites minis on my display shelf...

Now, granted, I haven't looked at them for a good while, but my memory of them was that they were nicely sculpted, pretty well painted, comparatively slim GW humans in armour.

The result? I was gobsmacked. They looked like Cartman in black riot armour compared to the Nomads! Just... no...

I'm so glad that sections of the miniature industry have matured in line with my tastes.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have some old minis that need hiding in a box somewhere.

Just to add to the anecdotal evidence about Infinity aesthetics: After I quit 40К I heavily invested into Dropzone Commander(3400 pts,), Warmachine (110 pts.) and Malifaux (194pts). I am quite happy with them and they cover lots of gaming ground- from small skirmishes to epic mass battles. Although I have painted about 70 models, spread among those three systems, I still have 90 more or so to paint. In other words, I don't need another game and I don't want to add 20 or more models to my horrific backlog. And yet I am drawn to Infinity like a moth to the flame, just because of its beautiful aesthetics and its intriguing factions. And its quite hard not to pull the trigger on the game. I am still resisting the temptation....but .....those models....are......FANTASTIC!

See. it's still anecdotal evidence , but it seems to be adding up in this thread quite fast.

 Pacific wrote:

 plastictrees wrote:
I've rarely read someone speak on a topic that they are so poorly informed on, and I've been on the internet for a while.

Completely agree. I don't think there is a single post I have disagreed more with, during the entire time I have been posting on this forum. If Dakka had a 'post rating' system similar to the one implemented by Beasts of War, I think zlayer77 would have something like -400 right now

Just.. no.

Well you all look to be hooked on the messy Faction design and bland Miniatures... I guess diffrent games pull in diffrent people.. I still say that you dudes who like only bland human faction that mostly look kinda the same are in a miniority. But you do show alot of passion in the defence of Corvus Bellis design on their miniatures..

Sadly that also means many of us will never try Infinity. That is OFC okey with you but if I was the owner of Infinity I would think twice before dissmissing a large portion of the potential customers of my game.. I would probably "sell out" for the greater good of my commpany...

Corvus Belli has in the latest months started to design alot of WOLFs, and more flashed out Miniatures so we will see who is right in the end... But I would not be surprised if we will see more monsters and larger miniatures in the future and a much clearer Faction design. It is just simply good Buissniss for Corvus Belli... And lets face it most of you will still play even if they start designing stuff that appeals to more people...

I think this little debate has run its course to be honest not much more to say...

 zlayer77 wrote:


Corvus Belli has in the latest months started to design alot of WOLFs, and more flashed out Miniatures so we will see who is right in the end... But I would not be surprised if we will see more monsters and larger miniatures in the future and a much clearer Faction design. It is just simply good Buissniss for Corvus Belli... And lets face it most of you will still play even if they start designing stuff that appeals to more people...

The fact you think that shows how little you understand CB, how fast their buisness is growning (without selling out), or what Infinty itself is about. Like I said above CB just doesn't need player like that to grow Infinity it is doing better then they every dreamed with more player every year (again without selling out).

If they every do restart their 28mm fantasy line then you might get what you want. I would love to see the game they come up with for that.

I think GW would do better if they toned down the ridiculousness; I mean, soccer hooligan fungus Orks and Space Wolves with Wolf Claws riding giant Wolves with their Wolf Fang Necklaces?

I'd like them a lot better if they tried to make their miniatures more hard-sci-fi instead of the "science fantasy" vibe they have going on. And those Imperial Guard Regiments? They've got 19th century "King's African Rifles", WWI Germans, and World War II Russians as all part of the same faction. It's visually silly and unappealing.

God, GW could make so much more money if they stopped making such ridiculous design decisions that both visually clash and are meant to appeal to teenagers, and make more realistic, near-future miniatures without ridiculous things like the Dreadnought that can't possibly walk when you take its anatomy into account, or the flying bricks that a lot of the fliers are.

Yeah, and we're all glad you're not running CB.

yes maybe. As I have said before I think the rules look cool. And I really dont like to use proxy miniatures to play a game, feels a bit wrong hehe...

But I will keep an Eye on Infinity if they keep pulling out new stuff for Ariadna Faction that looks in line with the stuff they have resently released... Who knows I might pick up some miniatures.. Just need there to be enough stuff in a Faction that I can pick enough things to keep the game interesting...

I know you only have about 10 miniatures per side when you play Infinity but we all know that you buy more .. And I like to have enough in one faction to make them all look like they belong together...

The Wolfs do satisfy my Moonster need.. So I give it 6-12 month and we will see where the game is then...

That's like expecting Bolt Action to add dragons to the American army.

 heartserenade wrote:
That's like expecting Bolt Action to add dragons to the American army.

I need to steal this idea for... Something. An RPG setting maybe.

I admit it could be cool when done appropriately, but Bolt Action would cease to be Bolt Action (and adding dragons will probably piss of their entire customer base) while doing so. Kinda like if you want to add giant snakes in Infinity...

 heartserenade wrote:
Yeah, and we're all glad you're not running CB.

Well instead of being hostile all the time you might ask yourself is it a good thing that alot of people do not play the game you like just because they dont like the miniatures?

I mean come on now, All of you who have defended Corvus belli in this thread are spread all over the globe: US, UK, Australia, Philippines, Germany, Canada and many other nationalities.. If your way of thinking was the mainstream mindset towards Corvus Belli Miniatures we would never have had this discussion, I would have been playing now instead of complaining that I want to try the game but everyone around my area think the miniature Faction design looks crapy, the modells are in metal bla bla... I mean I have allready faced a horde of people In IRL, but then it was the opposite.. Me trying to find reasons for people to try the game and me getting hit with "NO WE DON'T WANT TO because the Factions look messy", " "the figures are so "small and look bland". If most table top gamers were into Infinitys design it would not be so hard to find games.. That I have to go a cross town, where there are few rabbid fanboys playing from time to time, now would I? it Was never a problem getting people into 40k, Fantasy, it was never a problem to get people to start Historical WW2 games, X-wing and Warmachine.. But Infinity is the first game I have run into where people actually say "man I dont want to try this game because there is no faction that interests me, because they all look the same". If I was a White Knigth like you Heartserenade that would freak me out.. Because the miniatures is what sell the game.....

So I asked a few questions, and there are some that think they are messy and dont want to try it.. And then there are a bunch of you who defend it tooth and claw.. But the end result is the same I will no be playing Infinity anytime soon.. I dont see this as a WIN for anyone.. And it is sad that you are so stuck in your ways, and probably cheer on Corvus belli to not make any changes... When they are needed if the company wants to grow into a more diverse table top game, that attracts more people

EDIT:

Forget it. Suffice to to say, I don't think zlayer understands that different people like different things, and that it's OK for different people to like different things.

 zlayer77 wrote:


I mean come on now, All of you who have defended Corvus belli in this thread are spread all over the globe: US, UK, Australia, Philippines, Germany, Canada and many other nationalities.. If your way of thinking was the mainstream mindset towards Corvus Belli Miniatures

I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of voices suddenly facepalmed and were suddenly silent. I fear something ironic has happened.

I also have the urge to investigate further into infinity, i looked at some of the models online and they do look pretty cool.

It was the miniatures that drew me to Infinity. The fraction fluff I find fascinating. CB is more sophisticated than murder mcmurderson and his murder claws.

i don't think I'm being hostile?

And let's look at the facts, shall we?

FACT 1: CB is growing. And growing fast.
FACT 2: A company growing fast usually means they're doing something right.
FACT 3: Anecdotally a lot of people in this thread like Infinity miniatures and were drawn to the game because of it.
FACT 4: You don't like Infinity miniature design.
FACT 5: You presented what you want to do if you were CB. People who are currently playing Infinity tolf you that yes, they will quit Infinity if it plays out like the way you like it.


Drawing a conclusion from those facts isn't really rocket science, you know: "fixing" something that isn't broken (and what has drawn their current player base in the the first place) will be disastrous. It's like KFC suddenly deciding not to sell chicken and sell ice cream instead because zlayer77 likes ice cream and think they should cater to the ice cream crowd.

 zlayer77 wrote:
I mean come on now, All of you who have defended Corvus belli in this thread are spread all over the globe: US, UK, Australia, Philippines, Germany, Canada and many other nationalities.. If your way of thinking was the mainstream mindset towards Corvus Belli Miniatures we would never have had this discussion, I would have been playing now instead of complaining that I want to try the game but everyone around my area think the miniature Faction design looks crapy, the modells are in metal bla bla... I mean I have allready faced a horde of people In IRL, but then it was the opposite.. Me trying to find reasons for people to try the game and me getting hit with "NO WE DON'T WANT TO because the Factions look messy", " "the figures are so "small and look bland". If most table top gamers were into Infinitys design it would not be so hard to find games.. That I have to go a cross town, where there are few rabbid fanboys playing from time to time, now would I? it Was never a problem getting people into 40k, Fantasy, it was never a problem to get people to start Historical WW2 games, X-wing and Warmachine.. But Infinity is the first game I have run into where people actually say "man I dont want to try this game because there is no faction that interests me, because they all look the same". If I was a White Knigth like you Heartserenade that would freak me out.. Because the miniatures is what sell the game.....

So I asked a few questions, and there are some that think they are messy and dont want to try it.. And then there are a bunch of you who defend it tooth and claw.. But the end result is the same I will no be playing Infinity anytime soon.. I dont see this as a WIN for anyone.. And it is sad that you are so stuck in your ways, and probably cheer on Corvus belli to not make any changes... When they are needed if the company wants to grow into a more diverse table top game, that attracts more people

Out of curiosity, why do you believe that this game must appeal to you, your friends and/or your specific gaming circle? It's a subjective matter. In this case you dislike it, your gaming circle dislikes it, but so what? I mean many other people do like it, as clearly shown by the way that Infinity is growing. This isn't a game stuck in a rut, nor is it one that is shrinking in popularity, it's a game that is growing quite well. So why should the game change because you dislike it, when clearly there are many who do, and when the formula is obviously working? Especially given that you've shown ignorance of the game and its fluff to begin with and half of your argument appears to be based on your lack of familiarity with the game universe.

Don't get me wrong, by all means dislike it as you see fit. I just can't fathom why you expect your opinion should matter so much that the game should change due to it. Changing it in the ways you suggested would go against what we, the players, want from the game. Which leads to the question of whose opinion matters more, yours as a prospective customer who has little to no understanding of the game, or those of us who play it regularly and--more importantly to this discussion--buy the models? No company is foolish enough to think they can get every potential customer out there, so why risk sacrificing the existing player base to possibly pick up the odd player here and there?

 zlayer77 wrote:

Well instead of being hostile all the time you might ask yourself is it a good thing that alot of people do not play the game you like just because they dont like the miniatures?

Why, yes... it is indeed.

Think of it as a screening process.