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Where's that blue lizard from? Looks better than the red 'un.

The $15 for 20 deal seems better than the army deal for the demons.

For $45, you can get 40 lesser and 20 Succubi.

The army is $50 for 30 lesser, 10 succubi and 10 gargoyles. I know there's some restic vs plastic there, but the other set has only new models, the other set avoids restic and the other set has significantly more models.

Makes me think there might be one more demon set to be added to the starter (or possibly a variant build adding 10 more succubi).

 Vermis wrote:
Where's that blue lizard from? Looks better than the red 'un.

One of the Soul Calibur video games.

They still need a cavalry and large infantry unit, so Demonic Hounds and Molochs are likely to feature at some point.

There's a lot more to come for them, every Abyssal unit in the Dungeon Saga KS is a safe bet.

I'm just hoping we can get to some Nature stuff.

I wonder just how many plastic kits they are planning for the Abyssals 2 have been announced, then there is the Abyssal Warriors which also seem like a candidate for HIPS. The Molochs will most likely be restic, hellhounds and effrits restic or metal. Tortured souls seem like something you could kit bash using ghouls/zombies and the magi parts from the lower abyssal set.

I'm actually quite shocked out how cheap this game is - $100, with the very reasonable exchange rates to the UK at the moment, comes to £63. With free shipping, a whole army.. hmm, now the problem is sourcing some moderately artistically talented slaves to paint the things

Has anyone 'in the know' heard whether a lot of this stuff is already designed/CAD sculpted, and is just waiting for stretch goals? I assume that's the case for the Abyssal army, is it the same for the nature force?

I think all of the recent plastics (deadzone stuff including the sci-fi zombies) have been CAD sculpted. I imagine the same will be done here.

I often get the feeling that a lot of Mantics designs would be a lot better of with another round of concept design. It is like they have some interesting ideas, but don't carry them through fully. Like the dwarfs, they have stated some intersting things about the armour and the helmets, but give them stupid shields.

The abyssals look good. But I also love Dungeon Keeper.

As I'm stupidly lazy and can't read 15 pages....

Are these hard plastic or Restic?

The new Abyssals will be hard plastic.

Can someone with game experience help me out with something?

I'm going into this KS with, oh... $500-700 of Mantic credit left, and want to come out of this with, probably, three large armies...

I don't know how force-organization works, per se... but hypothetically is their value in doubling up on Mega-Army Bundles? IE, if I get two Dwarf Mega Armies, can I end up fielding and gaining value from all of the 2nd bundle at roughly 2000pts...? Or, is it like 40k (sorry, I know, rubbish comparison, but it is my only experience at higher model count mini gaming), where i've maxed out whatever "slots" those cannons go into, thus leaving me with unusable extras?

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Can someone with game experience help me out with something?

I'm going into this KS with, oh... $500-700 of Mantic credit left, and want to come out of this with, probably, three large armies...

I don't know how force-organization works, per se... but hypothetically is their value in doubling up on Mega-Army Bundles? IE, if I get two Dwarf Mega Armies, can I end up fielding and gaining value from all of the 2nd bundle at roughly 2000pts...? Or, is it like 40k (sorry, I know, rubbish comparison, but it is my only experience at higher model count mini gaming), where i've maxed out whatever "slots" those cannons go into, thus leaving me with unusable extras?

If you get two Dwarf mega armies you'll be able to field everything, as the current rules are. This might change, but I very much doubt that.

As it is now, for each "solid" unit you take, one slot for hero/war machine opens up. So you're good

So are there multiple bodies for the demons/succubi? If its just that one pose (hands at side), those are going to be really static looking armies...

@NewTruth

To further Asop, there is no Force Org Charts in KoW like WHF or 40k, the only real restriction is as mention above is that for every War-Engine or Hero (some big monsters are classed as heroes) you take you need to have a "solid" unit,
this is normally a "Regiment" and above to Horde units, things like Large Cavalry and Large Infantry can be taken as troops but still class as "solid" and give you access to one Hero or War-engine as well.

Currently Regiments/solid units break down as follows for most armies:
20 Infantry - Elf Archers, Zombies, Orc Greataxs, Lower Abyssals etc
10 cavalry - Gore Riders, Dark Nights etc
3 Large Cavalry - Abyssal Riders, Orge Chariots etc
3 Large Infantry - Orges, Werewolves etc

I can't forsee any of this changing in the new rules so there is currently a decent level of value in doubling-up the army bundles, hope that helps.

Bossk_Hogg wrote:
So are there multiple bodies for the demons/succubi? If its just that one pose (hands at side), those are going to be really static looking armies...

There will be more dynamic posing. The concept art is just that; concepts.

 Rolt wrote:

@NewTruth

To further Asop, there is no Force Org Charts in KoW like WHF or 40k, the only real restriction is as mention above is that for every War-Engine or Hero (some big monsters are classed as heroes) you take you need to have a "solid" unit,
this is normally a "Regiment" and above to Horde units, things like Large Cavalry and Large Infantry can be taken as troops but still class as "solid" and give you access to one Hero or War-engine as well.

Currently Regiments/solid units break down as follows for most armies:
20 Infantry - Elf Archers, Zombies, Orc Greataxs, Lower Abyssals etc
10 cavalry - Gore Riders, Dark Nights etc
3 Large Cavalry - Abyssal Riders, Orge Chariots etc
3 Large Infantry - Orges, Werewolves etc

I can't forsee any of this changing in the new rules so there is currently a decent level of value in doubling-up the army bundles, hope that helps.

Thanks man. That sounds like a TERRIFIC and streamlined way to go Force-Organization.

From everything i'm hearing, it sounds like I should expect to say that often in comparing KoW to WFB.

 Pacific wrote:
I'm actually quite shocked out how cheap this game is - $100, with the very reasonable exchange rates to the UK at the moment, comes to £63. With free shipping, a whole army.. hmm, now the problem is sourcing some moderately artistically talented slaves to paint the things

Has anyone 'in the know' heard whether a lot of this stuff is already designed/CAD sculpted, and is just waiting for stretch goals? I assume that's the case for the Abyssal army, is it the same for the nature force?

Since they've shown renders for (some of) the lesser Abysals that lot have been started

but no renders for the Hero/Mage/Succubae suggest these have only had concept art done (or they'd show renders)

Happy to see Mantic getting back to HIPS after all the restic. I just hope it's good quality HIPS (ie. that they've changed provider from the Goblin and Men at Arms debacles).

I will wait and see. Happy to buy at retail if they're good, not happy to put down money without seeing the sculpts though.

 Da Boss wrote:
Happy to see Mantic getting back to HIPS after all the restic. I just hope it's good quality HIPS (ie. that they've changed provider from the Goblin and Men at Arms debacles).

I will wait and see. Happy to buy at retail if they're good, not happy to put down money without seeing the sculpts though.

Well, they are at least showing concept sculpts of the lower abyssals, and the plastic quality has increased substantially, going by their recent sci-fi zombies.

Da Boss: go see the recent Enforcer and Peacekeeper models in the Sci Fi thread. Those should alleviate your fears. Their new HP stuff is really good-same quality as their early undead (which hasn't met any complaint that I've ever seen).

 Da Boss wrote:
Happy to see Mantic getting back to HIPS after all the restic. I just hope it's good quality HIPS (ie. that they've changed provider from the Goblin and Men at Arms debacles).

I will wait and see. Happy to buy at retail if they're good, not happy to put down money without seeing the sculpts though.

Jump into the Mantic sci fi thread and you'll see photos of their most recent attempts at hard plastic, the Enforcer and Peacekeeper sprues from Deadzone

Beaten

Pro-Tip: On KS comments, do not even jokingly ask a question which compares KoW to WFB. :-p

I was curious as to why KoW seems to have analogs for every flavor of WFB unit, but then has very few "large" beasties/war-machines, etc even though Dungeon Saga just ensured a few huge kits would be produced.

Needless to say, people were quick to point out the different priorities between the two systems. :-p

To my defense, it will be a LOT easier to spend a mountain of dosh on this KS knowing the minis could serve as an army for two different game systems, but it sounds like moving a KoW army to WFB will still require a few outside purchases from GW for models that Mantic just doesn't do.

 Rolt wrote:

@NewTruth

To further Asop, there is no Force Org Charts in KoW like WHF or 40k, the only real restriction is as mention above is that for every War-Engine or Hero (some big monsters are classed as heroes) you take you need to have a "solid" unit,
this is normally a "Regiment" and above to Horde units, things like Large Cavalry and Large Infantry can be taken as troops but still class as "solid" and give you access to one Hero or War-engine as well.

Currently Regiments/solid units break down as follows for most armies:
20 Infantry - Elf Archers, Zombies, Orc Greataxs, Lower Abyssals etc
10 cavalry - Gore Riders, Dark Nights etc
3 Large Cavalry - Abyssal Riders, Orge Chariots etc
3 Large Infantry - Orges, Werewolves etc

I can't forsee any of this changing in the new rules so there is currently a decent level of value in doubling-up the army bundles, hope that helps.

There might be a few small changes to force org but nothing extreme or that would stop you from using two of the elf armies doubled up. We've not set the rules in stone yet, but unless you're taking an absolutely extreme army (drakon spam, or artillery spam) then you won't be affected - the changes will be to only stop the absolute extremes. It's still the same concept of solid units unlocking slots and you will still be able to take any "core" units you like. We certainly don't want to invalidate anyones army unless they were really taking the , and even then they'd just need to do a bit of rejigging.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:

 Rolt wrote:

@NewTruth
To further Asop, there is no Force Org Charts in KoW like WHF or 40k, the only real restriction is as mention above is that for every War-Engine or Hero (some big monsters are classed as heroes) you take you need to have a "solid" unit,
this is normally a "Regiment" and above to Horde units, things like Large Cavalry and Large Infantry can be taken as troops but still class as "solid" and give you access to one Hero or War-engine as well.

Thanks man. That sounds like a TERRIFIC and streamlined way to go Force-Organization.

From everything i'm hearing, it sounds like I should expect to say that often in comparing KoW to WFB.

Note that also the allies rules are really loose. Every army has an affiliation. Good/Neutral/Evil. God allies with Good and neutral, Evil allies with evil and neutral, Neutral allies with Good OR Evil, but not at the same time. To take allies, all you have to do is follow the rules posted earlier about core units allowing the addition of heroes and monsters.

This really allows you build the army you want to build. Whether incorporating an old army in to KoW, or creating a unique army or just being able to paint up an interesting unit (from Mantic or not) and work it into your army. One of my favorite things about KoW.

Thanks Daedleh. Didn't realize you were a Mantic guy. I don't suppose we know one another? To be fair, i'm usually just a remote guy, working through Greg Smith. :-p

Incidentally, I don't suppose you could answer my questions re: "big kit" style center-piece models? Again, not looking to turn the game into "better WFB: The Rules", but including profiles for one-off, impressive center-piece models would be fun.

And as I said in the comments, there is sort of a precedent as Tyrant of Halpi and that big undead monster are incoming as of the Dungeon Saga KS.

Mega Army Values (based on mantic website as best I can, NOT online discounters or bundle deals, please check the value for yourself before backing!)

Undead £107.44

Dwarf £138.32

Elf £143.91

Orc £142.43 (approx.)

Abysal Dwarf £132.42

Goblin £143.90

Basilean £146.92

Ogre £119.43

Forces of the Abyss £ 59.99

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Incidentally, I don't suppose you could answer my questions re: "big kit" style center-piece models? Again, not looking to turn the game into "better WFB: The Rules", but including profiles for one-off, impressive center-piece models would be fun.

It's something Mantic want to do, and it's really just a case of not being able to do everything at once.

"When", not "if "

 Baragash wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Incidentally, I don't suppose you could answer my questions re: "big kit" style center-piece models? Again, not looking to turn the game into "better WFB: The Rules", but including profiles for one-off, impressive center-piece models would be fun.

It's something Mantic want to do, and it's really just a case of not being able to do everything at once.

"When", not "if "

Well, isn't the 2nd Ed. book the perfect time to include those profiles in army lists?

God... wouldn't that be irony... if I used GW models as proxies until Mantic could release theirs? ;-)