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Are they worth it? i was thinking of putting together mine and paint them up.

Depending on how you use the guyz and what you need them to be. For example, they're mandatory for a Cypher formation. With built in infiltrate, they're great as either a mellee threat overload or special weapon platform.

They fit nice in a landraider with indep.

The key to sucksess with chosen is not to overinvest. A barebones squad with 1 hidden power fist will do better than a kitted out one with a bunch of lightning claws, combi-weapons and stuff like that.

A common question. The answer is typically no. For their points, you're not getting the return. They don't have any better survivability than standard CSM and they cost a LOT more so each loss is a bigger deal.

Well, the internets will tell you no.

However, like a lot of things in 40K, you can find a use for them if you really want to. First, you need to figure out what their role is going to be.

My preference is a 5 plasma gun death squad. Some will say you can get a havoc squad to do the same. However, havocs compete for the heavy slot and chosen do not.

If you prefer them for CC, equip them accordingly. Just keep in mind that while they will kill a lot of things, they are still just 3+ armor saves with no invul.

Agreed. They aren't bad, but need a bit of thought.

1 - They are not a bad melee unit. Bolt Pistol & Chainsword, 2 attacks and the option of Veterans of the Long War makes them at least as dangerous as marine veterans in a melee

2 - They are not a great melee unit. If you're going to start strapping multiple power weapons to the squad, you're doing it wrong - bear in mind that a chosen with a power sword costs more than a chosen in terminator plate with the same weapon.

3 - They are not a long-ranged firepower unit. If you want to stand off in the backfield, you're stuck with a single heavy weapon and single shots from rapid-fire weapons, and you're wasting that lovely melee ability.

As a result, the best compromise tends to be short-ranged firepower. Consider taking a melee weapon on the Aspiring Champion (because Champion of Chaos) but otherwise just fill out the special weapons slots with multiples of the same weapon (whichever your army wants most).

Add in a Rhino or Dreadclaw Drop Pod to taste. Get up close and set things on fire!

If you have cyper, than you can get infiltating and ATSKNF chosen, who are actually worth considering.

Otherwise? nope.

There are 2 ways of fielding them effectively:
1. 5 man squads with nothing but flamers/meltas/plasmas in a rhino. Although you could ask yourself why not just go for havoks, you might be full up on slots or have Cypher (who buffs chosen) or Abaddon (who makes them droops)
2. Naked squads with mark of Khorne (maybe with hidden fist if you must). These have 5 attacks each on the charge and aren't too expensive.

The worst thing you can do however is to load up power weapons, lightning claws etc. The best use for the dark vengeance chosen models is for conversion parts for chaos lords (Hello PF+LC nurgle bikers!).

Take plasma chosen with Cypher, infiltrate them 18" (or closer without LOS) to their targets. Move 6", rapid fire 10 plasma shots per 5 man squad.

This has some limitations, though. You're operating at max range, failure to position properly will ruin this.

 Murenius wrote:
Take plasma chosen with Cypher, infiltrate them 18" (or closer without LOS) to their targets. Move 6", rapid fire 10 plasma shots per 5 man squad.

This has some limitations, though. You're operating at max range, failure to position properly will ruin this.

Nothing stopping them taking a rhino dedicated transport right? move 6" disembark 6".

In the Cypher dataslate I believe he is restricted to infiltrating infantry.

Cypher is, Ahriman and Huron aren't, and they come with the Warlord Trait that allows D3 units to infiltrate. Plus they can adjust to other units if it suits better.

Shame neither option is amazing (Ahriman is a bit pricey and Huron just doesn't offer a huge amount else) in themselves, but as Infiltrate also confers outflank, they do offer a lot of options.

Surprised no one mentioned using Crimson Slaughter.

It really only helps out one unit of chosen by making them Draznicht's Ravagers (for an additional 10 points) which gives them PE as long as the Chosen Champion doesn't die. Deck out the squad with Plasma is what I've found gives me more bang for my buck.

Stircrazy wrote:
Are they worth it? i was thinking of putting together mine and paint them up.

Hard to answer, they are "over priced", but that does not mean they are without value.

I thinking running a squad of 6, with 4 plus the champion armed with combi-plasma and the last with a plasma gun is a good option, far cheaper then an all plasma squad and still for one round of intense shooting.

 Azreal13 wrote:
Cypher is, Ahriman and Huron aren't, and they come with the Warlord Trait that allows D3 units to infiltrate. Plus they can adjust to other units if it suits better.

Mean the Warlord Trait that states "Nominate up to D3 Infantry units in your army before deployment. Those units gain the Infiltrate special rule."?

Even if the rule says "Infantry", I am pretty sure the Infiltrate rule allows you to infiltrate embarked in your dedicated transport.

Don't have the Cypher rule, so can't say about that.

zoat wrote:
Even if the rule says "Infantry", I am pretty sure the Infiltrate rule allows you to infiltrate embarked in your dedicated transport.

Don't have the Cypher rule, so can't say about that.

Correct, this works because you do not target the vehicle, you target the infantry unit then the Infiltrate USR has a specific clause about it allowing DTs to have the rule confer to them, at no point do you attempt to give the Infiltrate USR directly to the vehicle.

The Cypher dataslate doesn't work because it specifies that the Chosen cannot take DTs.

locarno24 wrote:
Agreed. They aren't bad, but need a bit of thought.

1 - They are not a bad melee unit. Bolt Pistol & Chainsword, 2 attacks and the option of Veterans of the Long War makes them at least as dangerous as marine veterans in a melee

2 - They are not a great melee unit. If you're going to start strapping multiple power weapons to the squad, you're doing it wrong - bear in mind that a chosen with a power sword costs more than a chosen in terminator plate with the same weapon.

3 - They are not a long-ranged firepower unit. If you want to stand off in the backfield, you're stuck with a single heavy weapon and single shots from rapid-fire weapons, and you're wasting that lovely melee ability.

As a result, the best compromise tends to be short-ranged firepower. Consider taking a melee weapon on the Aspiring Champion (because Champion of Chaos) but otherwise just fill out the special weapons slots with multiples of the same weapon (whichever your army wants most).

Add in a Rhino or Dreadclaw Drop Pod to taste. Get up close and set things on fire!

Mmm hmm.

The big advantage you get from Chosen is the ability to have 5 special weapons in a squad. It's important to think about what that gets you before using them in a game.

First, opponents will give target priority to anything with that many special weapons. The first thing to remember about them is that they have to have some protection going up the board. Even a Rhino is better than leaving them exposed.

Second, they have the flexibility to wreck anything they face. You can take a squad of Chosen and set it up to shoot up infantry, vehicles and even buildings / fortifications. It's really important to decide if they will be a melee unit or a shooty unit and set them up appropriately.

Third, they are expensive. It's fair to compare them to terminators with more weapons but poorer saves. You don't want them getting into situations where they are tarpitting other units, you want them destroying other units with overwhelming offense.

In 6th edition, where I left off with Chosen was as a dedicated squad hunter. I would take a squad of 10 Chosen with MoS, IoE and 5 flamers. I would drive them up the board in a Spartan Assault Tank (which could also be a Land Raider), get out, shoot up some sorry squad, then charge it. Someone else could do a better job explaining the mathhammer vs MEQ, but usually they would take no wounds from overwatch, do 4 wounds from the flamers, do 4 wounds in close combat, and take no wounds in close combat (because they were striking first and had FNP). The Spartan would provide some cover and stay stationary to shoot up other threats while the Chosen ate whatever they were facing. There were never really opportunities for the Chosen to get back into the Spartan due to game length, but I imagine there could be situation where that would happen.

This demonstrates their optimal use. There are few units in the game that can shoot with that many weapons, fight at a high initiative, and get a FNP roll to boot. In 7th edition, I think their role is really to be that unit that goes in and cleans out an objective very quickly. Admittedly, it's expensive and hard to use, but I never found them to be worthless.

I really like to take Cypher+his Chosen AND Huron

Infiltrate up with 3 units of chosen, Cypher, and large unit of cultists. I use the cultists for a large mobile cover save + unmoveable tarpit.

If huron rolls well I will add in another unit of cultists, huron himself or get my bikes or spawn into better position.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 techsoldaten wrote:


The big advantage you get from Chosen is the ability to have 5 special weapons in a squad. It's important to think about what that gets you before using them in a game.

They can get 5 special weapons on a squad that does not suck in melee.

Unlike havocs, which are cheaper and can get 4 special weapons, they:
do not compete for a slot
have three times the number of attacks
can be taken with Cypher to infiltrate+ATSKNF
can get PE from Crimson Slaughter


In order to justify taking them, you should satisfy one or more of the following:
have no heavy slots
be using them to assault in the midfield after peppering something
be taking cypher
be using Crimson slaughter.

If you aren't doing one of those things, you probably are doing it somewhat wrong.

It's hard to understate how powerful 5 plasma guns or meltaguns can be - chosen can sometimes earn back their entire points cost in a single round of shooting. They are also quite good in close combat with just their default gear, getting a minimum of 15 attacks.

The issue is that they're not very tough for their price - they're no more durable that regular marines, and your opponent will have every incentive to wipe them off the board before they can do damage. And the CSM codex has mediocre choices for transports. Rhinos are squishy, land raiders are very expensive and take up a heavy support slot. To make them work, your best bet would be to use some of the forgeworld transports (Dreadclaw, LR Proteus, Spartan).

The problem is getting said plasma/melta to where it matters.

With cypher chosen, its not much of a challenge, so go ahead.
With other chosen, its absurdly hard-as they are not fast, nor durable.

Plasma Chosen is the optimal use, I'd think. Specially with Huron/Ahriman/Cypher, as said before. Melee Chosen... nah. Same problem of SM Vanguard Veterans: too expensive when kitted out for a 3+ save.

I agree with mobility being an issue for Chosen and really limiting their viable purpose to just shooting.

I think it'd would have been nice if chosen had access to Chaos Rewards and/or Special issue Wargear, either of which would probably get more players to consider using Chosen and would have made melee Chosen a viable option. (Would love to see a Khorne Lord on a juggernaut being accompanied by a squad of Chosen on juggernauts. Hell, any Lord on a steed accompanied by a squad of Chosen on the same steed)

 King Pariah wrote:
I agree with mobility being an issue for Chosen and really limiting their viable purpose to just shooting.

I think it'd would have been nice if chosen had access to Chaos Rewards and/or Special issue Wargear, either of which would probably get more players to consider using Chosen and would have made melee Chosen a viable option. (Would love to see a Khorne Lord on a juggernaut being accompanied by a squad of Chosen on juggernauts. Hell, any Lord on a steed accompanied by a squad of Chosen on the same steed)

Yeah that would be totally awesome. Not to mention squads of 5 nurgle biker chosen all with flamers/melta guns

How I would run them, while it might be expensive, would be:

Taking Crimson Slaughter, with the Reaver's upgrade (PE while champ is alive), and putting them in a Dreadclaw for a Turn 1 alpha strike.

There's two ways to run this set up, depending on how many points you want to do and if you can spare the points:

With 4 Plasma + combi-plas= 270 (that's including the price of the pod)
With 5 combi-plas: 240

the first obviously has more consistent fire power (pending they survive past their initial drop) while the second is more of an alpha strike squad.

I played an 8000 points per side dust up (no special appocalypse, just epic amounts of troops) yesterday and I had 3 squads of khorne chosen with a IoW, 2 power fists, power sword 2 melta guns, with a combimela and power sword on champion in land raiders. They performed very well as a run in and smash'em up squad and properly supported, by other units, they can be pretty hard to kill. They absolutely crushed what they needed to, even while rolling abysmally except in one combat where even led by a Terminator sorcerer with Iron arm, and 20 regular attacks, 10 powersword attacks and 8 powerfists, killed one marine. But if I hold that one combat against them, I might as well forgo lascannons, because I rolled 3 ones to wound to finish off mephiston.

I find that at any points level, chaos chosen can have a proper spot in an army. Even one squad that's almost bare bones can be a great support addition to your lines. The biggest thing is just making sure that your remember that while they are the elite armed squad, they're not the elite armoured squad. They aren't nearly as durable as they need to be to lead the charge on their own.

kungfujew wrote:

I find that at any points level, chaos chosen can have a proper spot in an army. Even one squad that's almost bare bones can be a great support addition to your lines. The biggest thing is just making sure that your remember that while they are the elite armed squad, they're not the elite armoured squad. They aren't nearly as durable as they need to be to lead the charge on their own.

I support this statement. They need some thought to work. Either with target saturation or as flank pushers. Toss them in a frontal assault alone and they'll be exactly as useful as regular marines that cost 1.5 times less.

I think an underlooked perk of melee chosen is that they are one of the few units that can pull their weight in a fight without needing an HQ bruiser. Even berserkers can only pack a single power weapon and pretty much require a chaos lord or sorcerer to do some heavy lifting.

Throw in a few power weapons and a fist into a Khorne chosen unit and they come out a 100+ pts cheaper than most assault squads.

 koooaei wrote:

kungfujew wrote:

I find that at any points level, chaos chosen can have a proper spot in an army. Even one squad that's almost bare bones can be a great support addition to your lines. The biggest thing is just making sure that your remember that while they are the elite armed squad, they're not the elite armoured squad. They aren't nearly as durable as they need to be to lead the charge on their own.

I support this statement. They need some thought to work. Either with target saturation or as flank pushers. Toss them in a frontal assault alone and they'll be exactly as useful as regular marines that cost 1.5 times less.

The question begets, what will this "elite armed" squad do, that a squad of cult marines, or even regular dudes, can't go just as well-without getting overly equipped and painting a bullseye on themselves?

 BoomWolf wrote:

 koooaei wrote:

kungfujew wrote:

I find that at any points level, chaos chosen can have a proper spot in an army. Even one squad that's almost bare bones can be a great support addition to your lines. The biggest thing is just making sure that your remember that while they are the elite armed squad, they're not the elite armoured squad. They aren't nearly as durable as they need to be to lead the charge on their own.

I support this statement. They need some thought to work. Either with target saturation or as flank pushers. Toss them in a frontal assault alone and they'll be exactly as useful as regular marines that cost 1.5 times less.

The question begets, what will this "elite armed" squad do, that a squad of cult marines, or even regular dudes, can't go just as well-without getting overly equipped and painting a bullseye on themselves?

Boast one more attack, ld9 on everyone and a hidden power fist? For not much more points. They're a good retinue for an indep in a landraider. You get a character to die in bad challenges, a hidden fist and enough regular attacks to put some hurt on almost anything. For not much more points over a regular marine. Choppiness, ld and a hidden fist do matter in a mellee-oriented list.

They also can have up to 5 specials in a squad of any size. So, you can get a squad of 5 with, say, 2-3 meltas/plasmas/flamers in a rhino. It's another question if this possibilities are better than objective secured, though. But even such small squads with an extra special for marginal price increase can be helpful.

In a last csm game i've seen - it was an infiltration list with huron, cypher, lots of marines and a squad of 10 chosen with 1 hidden fist and a few meltas vs renegades with spawns, a blob and lots of vehicles - 9 surviving chosen murderised 3 spawns before they got to hit. On the spawn's charge.

Once again, they're not a no-brainer choice. And they loose to regular marines in vacuum. But can be effective in actual games.