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*shrugs*

I still can't muster any enthusiasm for this film. I really think Clone War's cancellation mid-production soured me on the new Star Wars.

The force awakens?

Has it been asleep this whole time?

Star Wars Episode XII: Honey, I Shrunk The Force

. . . sorry I'll stop now

Through extensive use of the FF button, I actually have come to like I, II, and III

I think this may just need posting here

NSFW language

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
*shrugs*

I still can't muster any enthusiasm for this film. I really think Clone War's cancellation mid-production soured me on the new Star Wars.

You lasted longer than some. My enthusiasm was killed by the prequels. I've heard good things about Clone Wars but I have trouble mustering up the energy to watch more than an episode or two. The animated shorts were quite good, but that was about it. I'm sure I'll see the new one but unless people I know and trust (on cinema) have good things to say about it I won't be going opening night.

 Ahtman wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
*shrugs*

I still can't muster any enthusiasm for this film. I really think Clone War's cancellation mid-production soured me on the new Star Wars.

You lasted longer than some. My enthusiasm was killed by the prequels. I've heard good things about Clone Wars but I have trouble mustering up the energy to watch more than an episode or two. The animated shorts were quite good, but that was about it. I'm sure I'll see the new one but unless people I know and trust (on cinema) have good things to say about it I won't be going opening night.

Exactly. Asa soon as the Midichlorian bomb dropped, my love for Star Wars died. Too bad Ialready had tickets to see the Phantom Menace two more times that night!

Star Wars: A New Cash In

 Ahtman wrote:
You lasted longer than some. My enthusiasm was killed by the prequels. I've heard good things about Clone Wars but I have trouble mustering up the energy to watch more than an episode or two. The animated shorts were quite good, but that was about it. I'm sure I'll see the new one but unless people I know and trust (on cinema) have good things to say about it I won't be going opening night.

Clone Wars was like boiling water with the heat turned off - it made a lot of noise and bubbles and changed around constantly, but eventually cooled and settled down into the show it wanted to be. In the end it was a very good series, and seasons 4 and 5 especially were great.

And then, with production underway for Season 6 and stuff already written for Season 7... Disney came along.

Now we have Star Wars Rebels, a show where the main characters stand around having cliche conversations whilst legions of Stormtroopers miss them with every single shot, sucking any tension out of the world.

Star Wars VIII: The Force Goes Back to Sleep.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Now we have Star Wars Rebels, a show where the main characters stand around having cliche conversations whilst legions of Stormtroopers miss them with every single shot, sucking any tension out of the world.

Isn't that the formula the Original Trilogy was built on, though?

I've not yet seen Rebels (waiting for the DVD) but everything I've read on it suggests its supposed to be closer in tone to 4,5, and 6, so perhaps not as dark or deep as Clone Wars got in the later series..

 Paradigm wrote:
I've not yet seen Rebels (waiting for the DVD) but everything I've read on it suggests its supposed to be closer in tone to 4,5, and 6, so perhaps not as dark or deep as Clone Wars got in the later series..

Yeah. That's not a good thing.

Instead of young adults taking out some Stormtroopers it is now teens taking out whole squadrons! And a Jedi in hiding comes out pretty much immediately then never hides that he is a Jedi in a world where they are actively hunted and thought to be a myth! Good fun for all!

Kanan is actually better in the novel, though.

"Next person who tries that is getting sent to the hospital"
" ...um, the Empire closed it."
"Fine. Next person who tries that is going to the morgue, whatever."

I like Rebels quite a bit.

 cincydooley wrote:
I like Rebels quite a bit.

I want to like it but it feels to much like A New Hope Lite at this point. Honestly they should have held the Jedi card for a lot longer, if ever having one as a regular let alone him teaching anyone one. They should be rare, and cause equal parts of awe and fear in people since they are considered a myth during this time.

 Ahtman wrote:
They should be rare, and cause equal parts of awe and fear in people since they are considered a myth during this time.

Yeah, all my favorite myths are less than 20 years old.

You guys do realize that they probably mean the Force Awakens.... in the main character, right?

I mean, it's not my favorite title in a long shot (Empire Strikes Back takes that), but it's not terrible.

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

 Ahtman wrote:
They should be rare, and cause equal parts of awe and fear in people since they are considered a myth during this time.

Yeah, all my favorite myths are less than 20 years old.

I think we might be using myth differently here. I'm not referring to traditional stories, which is just one use of the word, but to a thing being imaginary or fictitious. It has always been that the Empire a) killed almost every Jedi and b) convinced people they never really existed in the first place, or if they did it was silly little outdated group. In the original trilogy, which isn't that far from Rebels, and The Force and Jedi were practically unheard of. The Emperor didn't just want to wipe out most of them physically he also wanted to taint and/or destroy the memory of them.

 Ahtman wrote:

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

 Ahtman wrote:
They should be rare, and cause equal parts of awe and fear in people since they are considered a myth during this time.

Yeah, all my favorite myths are less than 20 years old.

I think we might be using myth differently here. I'm not referring to traditional stories, which is just one use of the word, but to a thing being imaginary or fictitious. It has always been that the Empire a) killed almost every Jedi and b) convinced people they never really existed in the first place, or if they did it was silly little outdated group. In the original trilogy, which isn't that far from Rebels, and The Force and Jedi were practically unheard of. The Emperor didn't just want to wipe out most of them physically he also wanted to taint and/or destroy the memory of them.

I know exactly what you meant and I still think it is total bull gak; I was mainly poking fun at one of most most egregious plot holes in the story.

The Jedi had been pervasive throughout the Galaxy for millennia, yet in less than a generation, the the concrete knowledge of the Jedi has been erased from the entirety of the Galaxy? Impossible.

I'm taking in to account that the Empire spun the Great Jedi Purge as the "Jedi Rebellion" in an effort to portray the Jedi Order as the "bad guys," but that doesn't explain how they are "practically unheard of." In Star Wars, the Rebellion is already a "thing" with a fairly substantial amount of star systems backing its cause coupled with the fact that there are so many systems that skirt the edge of the Empire; neither truly against it, nor for it, but more or less existing despite it. Leia even tells Tarkin on the Death Star that, "the more you tighten your grip, the more star systems will slip through your fingers." To me, this says that less than 20 years after the formation of the Galactic Empire, their stranglehold on the entire Galaxy isn't complete at all because as powerful as the Empire is, it can't feasibly control the entire Galaxy, let alone engage in a campaign of revisionism on the level that it would take to make the Force and the Jedi Order unheard of.

Except, in many ways, Jedi are near-mythological beings, even before the Empire. To the average citizen, Jedi are people you hear about, but most will never even see one. How many Jedi were there in the galaxy? Enough to have one for every planet? Maybe a few more than that? Even a liberal number might still place it as one Jedi for every billion people. And the Jedi don't go out of their way to seek public recognition or accolades. So, for most people, Jedi would exist only in stories.

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
Except, in many ways, Jedi are near-mythological beings, even before the Empire. To the average citizen, Jedi are people you hear about, but most will never even see one. How many Jedi were there in the galaxy? Enough to have one for every planet? Maybe a few more than that? Even a liberal number might still place it as one Jedi for every billion people. And the Jedi don't go out of their way to seek public recognition or accolades. So, for most people, Jedi would exist only in stories.

I disagree.

Just because most people have never seen a Jedi doesn't mean they aren't well aware of their existence. The Jedi Order had been ingrained in the Republic for thousands of years. The Jedi Temple was/is located on Coruscant, the capital of both the Republic and Galactic Empire and probably most important planet in the entire Galaxy. Now the Sith on the other hand I would say that most of the Galaxy was unaware of them.

I've never met or seen any President in person, yet I'm well aware that he exists...

Let's face it, Lucas was making the entire thing up as he went along and left us with the glaring plot holes.

Yeah, don't make the mistake of taking all the Jedi action we saw in the prequels to mean that Jedi were anywhere near common place. We were shown incredibly rare and awesome events.

Even most clones wouldn't have had much contact with the Jedi. Only those the Jedi worked closely with. The vast bulk would probably only ever have seen a jedi in passing or in a holo-vid.

Even on Coruscant, the closest someone would get to a Jedi would be seeing the Temple on the horizon.

Im liking rebels more than Clone Wars, but they do need something to spice the plot up at this point.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Yeah, don't make the mistake of taking all the Jedi action we saw in the prequels to mean that Jedi were anywhere near common place. We were shown incredibly rare and awesome events.

Even most clones wouldn't have had much contact with the Jedi. Only those the Jedi worked closely with. The vast bulk would probably only ever have seen a jedi in passing or in a holo-vid.

Even on Coruscant, the closest someone would get to a Jedi would be seeing the Temple on the horizon.

Except for the fact that the Jedi Order served as the paramilitary for the Galactic Republic, led troops into battle as generals, and negotiated peace agreements with planets across the Galaxy for thousands of years.

I'm not saying that there were billion upon billions of Jedi and every person you talked to would say, "Hey, have you met my neighbor/brother/sister/cousin/roommate? He's a Jedi!" There is a huge difference between not personally knowing someone and being unaware of their existence (like my President analogy). The Jedi are similar to other small, elite groups like we have today. To my knowledge, I have never met a SEAL or a member of the CIA's Special Activities Division, but I'm fully aware of the fact that they exist and are engaged in activities around the world. Think of the Jedi Order as something similar to that, except much larger, not clandestine, and entirely engrained in Galactic politics.

20 years, perhaps too little- but look at our own times, and the Nazis. Obviously they weren't champions of peace and order, but they were the subject of a campaign to stamp out the idea of their existence, Even without a total military lockdown, the idea that any of the Nazi still exist is the stuff of our comic books and legends- they became the B-movie badguy within a few decades. A Nazi resurgence in the 60s would have been quite unheard of- as would a Jedi in A New Hope.

 Gitzbitah wrote:
20 years, perhaps too little- but look at our own times, and the Nazis. Obviously they weren't champions of peace and order, but they were the subject of a campaign to stamp out the idea of their existence, Even without a total military lockdown, the idea that any of the Nazi still exist is the stuff of our comic books and legends- they became the B-movie badguy within a few decades. A Nazi resurgence in the 60s would have been quite unheard of- as would a Jedi in A New Hope.

The Nazi analogy isn't a very good one, even almost 60 years removed from the end of World War II.

There are plenty of people still alive that faced the horrors of Nazi Germany, both in the States and abroad. And while Germany more or less stamped out Nazism following the war, it isn't like anyone forgot who they were or what they did. Are they often portrayed as B-movie bad guys? Yeah, but you learn about them in school, you can watch documentaries on TV about them, you can still visit concentration camps in Europe.

And to be far, Nazism, fascism, and other far-right ideologies never really went away. I also take it you've never heard of George Lincoln Rockwell either.

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Yeah, don't make the mistake of taking all the Jedi action we saw in the prequels to mean that Jedi were anywhere near common place. We were shown incredibly rare and awesome events.

Even most clones wouldn't have had much contact with the Jedi. Only those the Jedi worked closely with. The vast bulk would probably only ever have seen a jedi in passing or in a holo-vid.

Even on Coruscant, the closest someone would get to a Jedi would be seeing the Temple on the horizon.

Except for the fact that the Jedi Order served as the paramilitary for the Galactic Republic, led troops into battle as generals, and negotiated peace agreements with planets across the Galaxy for thousands of years.

I'm not saying that there were billion upon billions of Jedi and every person you talked to would say, "Hey, have you met my neighbor/brother/sister/cousin/roommate? He's a Jedi!" There is a huge difference between not personally knowing someone and being unaware of their existence (like my President analogy). The Jedi are similar to other small, elite groups like we have today. To my knowledge, I have never met a SEAL or a member of the CIA's Special Activities Division, but I'm fully aware of the fact that they exist and are engaged in activities around the world. Think of the Jedi Order as something similar to that, except much larger, not clandestine, and entirely engrained in Galactic politics.

Yes, but remember that the Republic hadn't had an army for over a thousand years. And for some reason large scale wars were incredibly rare at that point.

The Grand Army of the Republic was something that hadn't been seen for millennia.

Specifically (*nerd hat*) The last Army of the Republic was the Jedi led Army of Light, which was disbanded following the end of the new Sith Wars 1000 BBY.

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
I was mainly poking fun at one of most most egregious plot holes in the story.

That is because the prequels were terrible movies in almost all categories. Until they came out there wasn't an issue such as this, and is one of the problems. It is poorly written, to be sure.

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
The Jedi had been pervasive throughout the Galaxy for millennia

They have existed for longer than that, but haven't been 'pervasive' in any sense, other than us seeing extraordinary examples. There wasn't even enough for one per planet, as someone mentioned earlier.

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
yet in less than a generation, the the concrete knowledge of the Jedi has been erased from the entirety of the Galaxy? Impossible.

In the real world it would be, but this is total fiction with at least half of it being very poorly done. Remember in the original films there were people that worked with Vader, knew him, and still didn't believe The Force or the Jedi were real. People at the highest levels knew, like Grand Admirals and Grand Moffs would know, and other strong willed long lived individuals like Jabba would as well, but most people were supposed to not think they were anything more than folklore. The prequels screwed up that simple element to be sure, which isn't the same as pretending that it isn't how the story is presented.