Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Toofast wrote:
Wow...just wow. The freehand is awful. The army overall isn't horrible but not something I would've paid $740 for.

Yeah it was a simple scheme that I believe op could of achieved fairly easily, judging from his submitted images. I could understand commissioning out cypher as that is a pretty sweet looking model and had some conversions.

Overall, I think it's acceptable. The overall price is competitive (especially considering conversion work). Would I use BTP? No, because I was screwed by them four years ago and can't trust them. Looks like they did okay here though.

OP, I'd ask for photos of some of the line marines showing their backside especially around the backpacks. That's where you may see exposed primer and even bare plastic. I think they use a kind of pre-shade technique with their basecoat. They don't always get complete coverage.

I understand all the levelled criticism (the freehand work on the rhinos is not pretty). However, for the price, I'm leaning towards, yes, but would need more pics showing they completely covered models in paint.

Nice! I've worked with BTP and was very happy with their results. They weren't cheap, but everything went smoothly.

Good luck.

 themonk wrote:
Overall, I think it's acceptable. The overall price is competitive (especially considering conversion work).

What conversion work?

OP did the conversions himself with the exception of the missile launchers on the Rhinos.

 CptJake wrote:

 themonk wrote:
Overall, I think it's acceptable. The overall price is competitive (especially considering conversion work).

What conversion work?

OP did the conversions himself with the exception of the missile launchers on the Rhinos.

Apologies, I just checked that last work order on the first post. Still, I think it may be acceptable as I see it.

It's not as bad as I'd feared. I still won't touch BTP with a ten foot barge pole, but it could've been worse. Hopefully OP is happy.

Guys, you need to remember that OP paid $740 for that paintjob. By commission painting standards, I'd say he got what he paid for. Okay, so yeah it's a basic level that pretty much any unprofessional hobbyist could also accomplish (provided they have the time)... but just consider what other, actual professional services would charge for their superior, high-end tabletop+ paintjobs in comparison.

The message is clear, as it was with tenebre's case: Blue Table Painting charge cheaper than most because they deliver results that are cheaper than most, which is okay (if you're happy with that standard, like the OP) if you go for their basic/low "levels". It becomes a problem in cases like tenebre's where you entrust a very large, high-cost army and request a higher-end paintjob (of which it is clear they are incapable of delivering, no matter the charged amount).

tenebre was (severely) ripped off, whereas OP got what they paid for.

I don't know.

I'm pretty sure there are other services that offer ~$10 per mini rates. I'm also pretty sure those other services would have a cleaner finish and better attention to details.

In the end, if OP is happy, then that's all that really matters. That said, I don't think this has exactly put BTP in any more positive light, at least not good enough for me to consider them over half a dozen other services off the top of my head.

 Anfauglir wrote:
Guys, you need to remember that OP paid $740 for that paintjob. By commission painting standards, I'd say he got what he paid for. Okay, so yeah it's a basic level that pretty much any unprofessional hobbyist could also accomplish (provided they have the time)... but just consider what other, actual professional services would charge for their superior, high-end tabletop+ paintjobs in comparison.

The message is clear, as it was with tenebre's case: Blue Table Painting charge cheaper than most because they deliver results that are cheaper than most, which is okay (if you're happy with that standard, like the OP) if you go for their basic/low "levels". It becomes a problem in cases like tenebre's where you entrust a very large, high-cost army and request a higher-end paintjob (of which it is clear they are incapable of delivering, no matter the charged amount).

tenebre was (severely) ripped off, whereas OP got what they paid for.

If you go by a pure break down he paid around 30 dollars per miniature/vehicle. Winter posted some minis that were rated at 25 per and the difference was amazing.

 Anfauglir wrote:


The message is clear, as it was with tenebre's case: Blue Table Painting charge cheaper than most because they deliver results that are cheaper than most, which is okay (if you're happy with that standard, like the OP) if you go for their basic/low "levels". It becomes a problem in cases like tenebre's where you entrust a very large, high-cost army and request a higher-end paintjob (of which it is clear they are incapable of delivering, no matter the charged amount).

On the contrary, several commission painters have posted in Tenebre's thread saying that they do a higher quality for the same price or less than BTP.

Maybe my standards are lower, but I'm not overly offended for the price. That said, I know lots of smaller one man companies that would do a better job at that price point, and a few competing services would too. I saw a level 1 set of Orks on the Frontline Gaming site, and was pleasantly surprised. It had freehand flames on some of the plates/rokkits etc.

The conversion work is great, I love nurgle armies. And the conversion and use of DV models is great! The cypher conversion, I love!

The freehand is for me a sticking point. It looks like they've thinned the paint (which is good) to get smooth lines. They haven't quite made them straight (not a big deal for nurgle, IMHO) but you can see the black through. They should be able to put down another two coats and it will look a LOT better.

One thing I'm surprised about, is they didn't offer to do a weathered design on the back, instead of freehand. You cut a vinyl template of the shape (easy because it's geometric), then you spray down a layer of chipping medium, then spray the black, then paint on the green edges. Then you use a brush with some water on it, to remove bits of the design (via the chipping medium). You end up with the design looking like it was applied years ago, and is wearing out.

Easy to do, we know they've got airbrushes, and super characterful for Nurgle!

I consider myself an OK level painter, and working to get better, but even I Can paint much better than this:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/bluetablepainting/16045259465/in/set-72157647485459253

Flat black robes with the shoddy red and blue "highlights" are pretty bad, and the green on the scythe does not help.

 RivenSkull wrote:
I consider myself an OK level painter, and working to get better, but even I Can paint much better than this:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/bluetablepainting/16045259465/in/set-72157647485459253

Flat black robes with the shoddy red and blue "highlights" are pretty bad, and the green on the scythe does not help.

I have nothing to say to that except I would never have guessed that paintjob came from a professional if I hadn't have seen it here. Not ever.

Honestly, it's not terrible work, it's certainly better than most armies I've seen in person. But the OP paid almost $800 for this? I think that's a pretty strong argument against ever using BTP, even with a project in a public review right after a major disaster the best you can get is mediocre results.

Sorry, but that is not a paintjob worth 3/4 of a grand. For that much, the OP could have gotten an entire army painted to the standard of the Cypher or better. I personally know commission painters who can do better work than that for that price; less than that price, even!

I really don't understand how BTP still gets work. I'm really not trying to sound abrasive, I seriously don't understand it. Surely, I can't be the only one thinking that that paintjob is pretty atrocious for the price? Note, I'm specifying for the price. That's not much more than a basecoat, some drybrushes, and a wash. That's it. Each one of those marines probably took an hour or two, realistically; even then, the final product leaves a lot to be desired. The $60 freehand work? They didn't even properly blend it into the top of the chassis! Incredibly sloppy. I also couldn't help but laugh out loud at the $60 charge to pop on some havoc launchers. Ridiculous.

I seriously hope that the OP is happy, and he sounds like he is. For all intents and purposes; good for you! I wish you all the fun games and pestilent goodness on the battlefield! But I personally wouldn't give them a penny knowing that was what I was going to get. That is far below the threshold of "bang for your buck" for me. Just my $0.02.

 Darth Bob wrote:
I really don't understand how BTP still gets work.

Marketing, and a large pool of potential victims customers who aren't really familiar with commission painting and what to expect for what prices. Then the entire way they run their business is designed to make it as difficult as possible to back out of a purchase, so if you realize too late that BTP sucks and is ripping you off all you can do is consider it an expensive lesson and go elsewhere next time.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Darth Bob wrote:
I really don't understand how BTP still gets work.

Marketing, and a large pool of potential victims customers who aren't really familiar with commission painting and what to expect for what prices. Then the entire way they run their business is designed to make it as difficult as possible to back out of a purchase, so if you realize too late that BTP sucks and is ripping you off all you can do is consider it an expensive lesson and go elsewhere next time.

Assuming, of course, that the experience doesn't sour your entire perception of the hobby; seeing as how a lot of their customers are new players/hobbyists.

Alright, so I've done some commission painting in the past, so I tend to sympathize with "for pay" painters...the job is tedious, long, and no one wants to pay a fair price for your time...

But what's really unforgivable here, is to charge someone 60 bucks (if I remember correctly) for some big chunky "freehand" and then to not even make an effort to try and blend the dang thing in to the work around it!

https://www.flickr.com/photos/bluetablepainting/15422982014/in/set-72157647485459253/

Anfauglir wrote:Guys, you need to remember that OP paid $740 for that paintjob. By commission painting standards, I'd say he got what he paid for....

...tenebre was (severely) ripped off, whereas OP got what they paid for.

That's basically my thought as well. How much did he pay per model? The freehand looks rough but it's what I expect on a tank that has only had a few hours spent on it. To do it really well would require masking or a lot of patience which consumes a lot of time (and thus money for a commission service).

Blacksails wrote:I don't know.

I'm pretty sure there are other services that offer ~$10 per mini rates. I'm also pretty sure those other services would have a cleaner finish and better attention to details.

Such as? Maybe Polish painters? I know they have pretty low wages over there. $10 per model would be an hour or less per model, I wouldn't actually expect much better than what he got while paying for an hour or less work per model.

Every since youtube painters popularized airbrushing with zenithal highlighting, some brush work and an oil wash, there has been a huge proliferation of commission painters who will turn the project around very fast and very cheaply at that price.

What I would have done if I were the OP is spent that money on an airbrush, compressor and paints. He's got green stuff and converting skills and I bet he'd have taken to airbrushing naturally.

 frozenwastes wrote:
Every since youtube painters popularized airbrushing with zenithal highlighting, some brush work and an oil wash, there has been a huge proliferation of commission painters who will turn the project around very fast and very cheaply at that price.

What I would have done if I were the OP is spent that money on an airbrush, compressor and paints. He's got green stuff and converting skills and I bet he'd have taken to airbrushing naturally.

I have an airbrush.... it doesn't actually make me all that much faster for most models. I can do effects I couldn't do before, but it doesn't really speed me up. I can apply basecoats quicker, but that was never a huge slab of time before anyway, and cleaning the brush would probably even it out. Good for speeding up tanks though.

 Anfauglir wrote:
Guys, you need to remember that OP paid $740 for that paintjob. By commission painting standards, I'd say he got what he paid for. Okay, so yeah it's a basic level that pretty much any unprofessional hobbyist could also accomplish (provided they have the time)... but just consider what other, actual professional services would charge for their superior, high-end tabletop+ paintjobs in comparison.

Like a couple of other people have said, I agree with this. If the OP is happy, more power to him.

Personally, I would have charged more and it would have taken longer, but I operate differently than BTP.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/bluetablepainting/15426111193/in/set-72157647485459253/

There even are red slops on the havoc launchers :/

I just don't get why Moff3l used BTP.
There are studios out there that are EXTREMELY good...
Granted, this one was most likely a "bit" more expensive, but THAT is some freehand work:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/denofimagination/sets/72157649538121886/

Level 3, which is about the same price, gets you this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSTZJdc-8p4
At least clean colours, no slops and a solid white. Cost: 10-13$ per model. OP paid 10$ if I read it right for basic troops.
So... WHY?
Why is Blue table painting, Miniature Painting Service, Spanish Fork, Utah still around?

I think the saving grace for this army are the conversions that the buyer made. I'm really digging them. You could probably make a few bucks doing conversions for people.

Are the white tuffs supposed to be mold or snow? I'm a little confused...

Unfortunately, BTP has shot themselves in the foot by taking close-up pics. However, I do appreciate it when painters take clear shots like this, and at least the buyer (and future customers) can clearly see what they are paying for. I'm sure while standing at a table (about 3 or 4 feet away) and looking down, this army doesn't look terrible.

As it has been said before, if you are happy with what you purchased, then that is all that matters.

 frozenwastes wrote:
Every since youtube painters popularized airbrushing with zenithal highlighting, some brush work and an oil wash, there has been a huge proliferation of commission painters who will turn the project around very fast and very cheaply at that price.

As someone that recently got an airbrush and was looking for interesting things to do with it, I thank you for this "zenithal highlighting" term. It looks like a great place to start.

(also, no, I have no interest in becoming a commission painter).

Here's a tutorial: http://www.winterdyne.co.uk/maz/winterdyne_tutorial1.pdf

Absolutionis wrote:As someone that recently got an airbrush and was looking for interesting things to do with it, I thank you for this "zenithal highlighting" term. It looks like a great place to start.

(also, no, I have no interest in becoming a commission painter).

It's a simple and effective technique. And the more the miniature is a single colour like space marines often are, the more time it can save.

winterdyne wrote:Here's a tutorial: http://www.winterdyne.co.uk/maz/winterdyne_tutorial1.pdf

This is one of the best painting articles I have ever read. Anywhere.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Such as? Maybe Polish painters? I know they have pretty low wages over there. $10 per model would be an hour or less per model, I wouldn't actually expect much better than what he got while paying for an hour or less work per model.

Frontline gaming for one has a $7 per infantry, put you pay for the basing separately, which would put it at $8. Hell, they're level 2 model and base is $12, which looks significantly better. They're level 1 is on par with what we've seen in this thread, and looks cleaner too.

A quick look at Winter's stuff in this thread and the pricing guide would have put the total costs in similar ballparks, but I'd argue you'd get more value from Winter.

I got a quote from Waaagh studios a while back when I fell into some money for a potential project, and the pricing scheme was similar to BTP's if I remember correctly for the level I wanted, which was the lowest I believe.

I don't know about the Polish guys, but everything I've seen next to a Polish flag has been beautiful. Must be something in the water.

 Thairne wrote:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/bluetablepainting/15426111193/in/set-72157647485459253/

There even are red slops on the havoc launchers :/

I just don't get why Moff3l used BTP.
There are studios out there that are EXTREMELY good...
Granted, this one was most likely a "bit" more expensive, but THAT is some freehand work:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/denofimagination/sets/72157649538121886/

Level 3, which is about the same price, gets you this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSTZJdc-8p4
At least clean colours, no slops and a solid white. Cost: 10-13$ per model. OP paid 10$ if I read it right for basic troops.
So... WHY?
Why is Blue table painting, Miniature Painting Service, Spanish Fork, Utah still around?

That Den of Imagination knight is their highest level isn't it? I remember seeing the video they released covering it.

As for comparing DoI and BTP that's like comparing a child's finger painting to something akin to a professional work, you can't really do it.

Yeah it is, and I wager it did cost a pretty penny. But it is a stunning piece and shows what a freehand can look like.

The Level 3 Marines are however in the same price range, which underlines how sub-par Blue Table Painting, Miniature Painting Service in Spanish Fork, Utah, actually is.
If you can get DoI-level quality, why take BTP?

I feel this thread really did backfire back in the opposite direction. While BTP's behaviour DID improve with this comission, their work didn't.