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What Do You Think The Origin Of The Blood Ravens Is?

Odds say Ultramarines.

it has been suggested that it is the thousand sons.
the emperor has no geneseed.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
Odds say Ultramarines.

Only because they stole it.

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
Odds say Ultramarines.

Only because they stole it.

This may be the best post you've ever made :p

The black Legion seems to be obsessed with them or they them. So perhaps the Son's of Horus/Black Legion. Wild guess.

It's the thousands sons, the amount of "hints" they have dropped at this point people should be in no doubt.

Some people want gw to go "yes it's the thousand sons" but that's not how they role hah

 the shrouded lord wrote:
it has been suggested that it is the thousand sons.
the emperor has no geneseed.

Yes he does. Geneseed is just the DNA used to create the organs. Suffice to say its not the Emperor in this case.




The most likely answer, if there was an answer, is Ultramarines or Thousand Sons, due to Heresy era tactics. The Thousand Sons have all their Psykers and stuff, plus usual hints. The Ultramarines during the Crusade worked on two principles. Theoretical and Practical. The Theoretical is a case of "Assuming the situation is X, this is what we should do (Y)." Practical is the plan they are going to enact, which is Y. This meshes well with the Blood Ravens who plan things meticulously before committing to a battle. Guilliman said "Information is victory" a lot in Know No Fear, which is pretty much "Knowledge is Power." The Blood Ravens use such an idea in divining information via Librarian and then winning a decisive offensive using that info.

no, the geneseed IS an organ.

Of course, the truth is there is no answer because they are fictional characters of a fictional universe, their origins will never be revealed so there is no true answer because no one has taken the time to write up a true, canon origin. As many hints are given, until its written in stone by GW, saying they are Thousand Sons is no different that saying they are direct descendants of Leman Russ, before he was found and when he had 3-4 wenches a day.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 the shrouded lord wrote:
no, the geneseed IS an organ.

No, the Prognoid Gland is an organ. Which collects and stores genetic blueprints for all the organs. It stores the geneseed and thus when the Apothecaries remove it, the bit they actually care about is the geneseed held within. The organ is useless once they get the data.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Pg 10, Codex Space Marines:

Part of this process involves the implantation of no less than nineteen new organs. These organs are derived from genetic material known as gene-seed.

I always preferred the idea that they were survivors of one of the Lost legion, and their Primarch was one of the lost ones and when the Lost Legion/ Primarch was expunged from the records, they went into hiding, destroyed their own records and rebranded themselves as another chapter.

Either that or they are decedents of a traitor legion and came back to the IoM, but had to delete their records to try and cover their heritage.

Thousand Sons - It's not official cannon, but the Black Library authors are pretty heavy-handed about making the parallels. I hope they stick with that approach, as I like the ambiguity (and they're liable to ruin everything by making them Ultramarines offshoots, or something like that. Sort of how they ruined the Lion's character by making him unquestionably loyal, rather than leaving it ambiguous as to whether he was about to side with Horus).

GW and Black Library writes have long been dropping hints that some of the chapters with unknown origins were in fact originally founded using genesede from the few loyalists who escaped from the traitor legions. I like that idea - in the aftermath of the Heresy, the IoM would have been struggling to rebuild the lost numbers of the Space Marines, and geneseed is too valuable of a commodity to waste. So what makes sense is that these loyalists founded new chapters, and their origins were purposely erased from the records so as to smooth over any suspicion that might be harboured against them down the line.

 DanielBeaver wrote:
Thousand Sons - It's not official cannon, but the Black Library authors are pretty heavy-handed about making the parallels. I hope they stick with that approach, as I like the ambiguity (and they're liable to ruin everything by making them Ultramarines offshoots, or something like that. Sort of how they ruined the Lion's character by making him unquestionably loyal, rather than leaving it ambiguous as to whether he was about to side with Horus).

Yeah, but remember who wrote the Dawn of War novels.

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 DanielBeaver wrote:
Thousand Sons - It's not official cannon, but the Black Library authors are pretty heavy-handed about making the parallels. I hope they stick with that approach, as I like the ambiguity (and they're liable to ruin everything by making them Ultramarines offshoots, or something like that. Sort of how they ruined the Lion's character by making him unquestionably loyal, rather than leaving it ambiguous as to whether he was about to side with Horus).

Yeah, but remember who wrote the Dawn of War novels.

Some were Goto, yes. But I would stand up and speak out for Chris Robinson who wrote Dawn of War 2, which was actually a canon, fairly well written piece, and actually inspired me to change my poorly painted Battle for Macragge Ultramarines into badly painted Blood Ravens.

 Deadshot wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 DanielBeaver wrote:
Thousand Sons - It's not official cannon, but the Black Library authors are pretty heavy-handed about making the parallels. I hope they stick with that approach, as I like the ambiguity (and they're liable to ruin everything by making them Ultramarines offshoots, or something like that. Sort of how they ruined the Lion's character by making him unquestionably loyal, rather than leaving it ambiguous as to whether he was about to side with Horus).

Yeah, but remember who wrote the Dawn of War novels.

Some were Goto, yes. But I would stand up and speak out for Chris Robinson who wrote Dawn of War 2, which was actually a canon, fairly well written piece, and actually inspired me to change my poorly painted Battle for Macragge Ultramarines into badly painted Blood Ravens.

DOW 2 is an absolutely atrocious story that gives Graham McNeil and Ben Counter a run for their money on the level of awful it was.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 DanielBeaver wrote:
Thousand Sons - It's not official cannon, but the Black Library authors are pretty heavy-handed about making the parallels. I hope they stick with that approach, as I like the ambiguity (and they're liable to ruin everything by making them Ultramarines offshoots, or something like that. Sort of how they ruined the Lion's character by making him unquestionably loyal, rather than leaving it ambiguous as to whether he was about to side with Horus).

Yeah, but remember who wrote the Dawn of War novels.

Some were Goto, yes. But I would stand up and speak out for Chris Robinson who wrote Dawn of War 2, which was actually a canon, fairly well written piece, and actually inspired me to change my poorly painted Battle for Macragge Ultramarines into badly painted Blood Ravens.

DOW 2 is an absolutely atrocious story that gives Graham McNeil and Ben Counter a run for their money on the level of awful it was.

Why?

 Deadshot wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 DanielBeaver wrote:
Thousand Sons - It's not official cannon, but the Black Library authors are pretty heavy-handed about making the parallels. I hope they stick with that approach, as I like the ambiguity (and they're liable to ruin everything by making them Ultramarines offshoots, or something like that. Sort of how they ruined the Lion's character by making him unquestionably loyal, rather than leaving it ambiguous as to whether he was about to side with Horus).

Yeah, but remember who wrote the Dawn of War novels.

Some were Goto, yes. But I would stand up and speak out for Chris Robinson who wrote Dawn of War 2, which was actually a canon, fairly well written piece, and actually inspired me to change my poorly painted Battle for Macragge Ultramarines into badly painted Blood Ravens.

DOW 2 is an absolutely atrocious story that gives Graham McNeil and Ben Counter a run for their money on the level of awful it was.

Why?

Boring story with no draw, uninspired characters, a twist that has been done to death in 40k and was even done in the previous game, KHORNE PSYKERS, dull writing, lampooned voice acting of such a terrible degree that it has turned into memes and even launched an entire 40k fan-club dedicated to lampooning the VA, etc.

Plus there's greater problems with the entire game series, like turning Chaos into a Saturday Morning Cartoon Villains (Eliphas especially seeing the dude never actually DIES), completely forgetting important, unique units to certain factions, and DOW II making the battles ridiculously small. The only good things DOW II brought to the table were better graphics, Last Stand, and laying the framework of a game so modders (like with DOW I) could then take the game and make it legitimately good and true to 40k.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 DanielBeaver wrote:
Thousand Sons - It's not official cannon, but the Black Library authors are pretty heavy-handed about making the parallels. I hope they stick with that approach, as I like the ambiguity (and they're liable to ruin everything by making them Ultramarines offshoots, or something like that. Sort of how they ruined the Lion's character by making him unquestionably loyal, rather than leaving it ambiguous as to whether he was about to side with Horus).

Yeah, but remember who wrote the Dawn of War novels.

Some were Goto, yes. But I would stand up and speak out for Chris Robinson who wrote Dawn of War 2, which was actually a canon, fairly well written piece, and actually inspired me to change my poorly painted Battle for Macragge Ultramarines into badly painted Blood Ravens.

DOW 2 is an absolutely atrocious story that gives Graham McNeil and Ben Counter a run for their money on the level of awful it was.

Why?

Boring story with no draw, uninspired characters, a twist that has been done to death in 40k and was even done in the previous game, KHORNE PSYKERS, dull writing, lampooned voice acting of such a terrible degree that it has turned into memes and even launched an entire 40k fan-club dedicated to lampooning the VA, etc.

Plus there's greater problems with the entire game series, like turning Chaos into a Saturday Morning Cartoon Villains (Eliphas especially seeing the dude never actually DIES), completely forgetting important, unique units to certain factions, and DOW II making the battles ridiculously small. The only good things DOW II brought to the table were better graphics, Last Stand, and laying the framework of a game so modders (like with DOW I) could then take the game and make it legitimately good and true to 40k.

Ah, so you actually haven't read a word of the novelisation I mentioned. Go read and then you can have an opinion. Never played the games so couldn't care less for them.

Khorne Psykers are fine. Care cares not from where the blood is spilled or by who, only that it flows (and you don't use your tricksy magicks to cheat).

 Deadshot wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 DanielBeaver wrote:
Thousand Sons - It's not official cannon, but the Black Library authors are pretty heavy-handed about making the parallels. I hope they stick with that approach, as I like the ambiguity (and they're liable to ruin everything by making them Ultramarines offshoots, or something like that. Sort of how they ruined the Lion's character by making him unquestionably loyal, rather than leaving it ambiguous as to whether he was about to side with Horus).

Yeah, but remember who wrote the Dawn of War novels.

Some were Goto, yes. But I would stand up and speak out for Chris Robinson who wrote Dawn of War 2, which was actually a canon, fairly well written piece, and actually inspired me to change my poorly painted Battle for Macragge Ultramarines into badly painted Blood Ravens.

DOW 2 is an absolutely atrocious story that gives Graham McNeil and Ben Counter a run for their money on the level of awful it was.

Why?

Boring story with no draw, uninspired characters, a twist that has been done to death in 40k and was even done in the previous game, KHORNE PSYKERS, dull writing, lampooned voice acting of such a terrible degree that it has turned into memes and even launched an entire 40k fan-club dedicated to lampooning the VA, etc.

Plus there's greater problems with the entire game series, like turning Chaos into a Saturday Morning Cartoon Villains (Eliphas especially seeing the dude never actually DIES), completely forgetting important, unique units to certain factions, and DOW II making the battles ridiculously small. The only good things DOW II brought to the table were better graphics, Last Stand, and laying the framework of a game so modders (like with DOW I) could then take the game and make it legitimately good and true to 40k.

Ah, so you actually haven't read a word of the novelisation I mentioned. Go read and then you can have an opinion. Never played the games so couldn't care less for them.

Khorne Psykers are fine. Care cares not from where the blood is spilled or by who, only that it flows (and you don't use your tricksy magicks to cheat).

Except Khorne Explicitly hates psykers and sorcerers. He'd never elevate one to the level of Daemon Prince. Not to mention the whole plot of "it turned out the Librarian was the villain" is straight from DOW I, and all they did was do it again in the second series because Relic is bankrupt on creativity.

Thousand sons have a huge problem with a form of spontaneous mutation refereed to as the "flesh change". We don't see that with the Blood Ravens.
Here is what I believe to be the case with them is. Their gene seed is from a stable source like the Ultramarines or Dark Angels. However in their inception their Librarius had contact and guidance from certain Thousand Sons survivors from that missing section of the Corvidae Cult. That one may have also been their great farther Azariah Vidya.
As a side note, the Author of the Blood Ravens actual Index Astartes article, that I have a physical copy of, is Graham McNeill.

 Wyzilla wrote:
Boring story with no draw, uninspired characters, a twist that has been done to death in 40k and was even done in the previous game, KHORNE PSYKERS, dull writing, lampooned voice acting of such a terrible degree that it has turned into memes and even launched an entire 40k fan-club dedicated to lampooning the VA, etc.
Plus there's greater problems with the entire game series, like turning Chaos into a Saturday Morning Cartoon Villains (Eliphas especially seeing the dude never actually DIES), completely forgetting important, unique units to certain factions, and DOW II making the battles ridiculously small. The only good things DOW II brought to the table were better graphics, Last Stand, and laying the framework of a game so modders (like with DOW I) could then take the game and make it legitimately good and true to 40k.

You have failed....the Emprah.

Now I still like the DOW games despite their flaws. I also think they're a good gateway to get someone hooked on 40k.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 DanielBeaver wrote:
Thousand Sons - It's not official cannon, but the Black Library authors are pretty heavy-handed about making the parallels. I hope they stick with that approach, as I like the ambiguity (and they're liable to ruin everything by making them Ultramarines offshoots, or something like that. Sort of how they ruined the Lion's character by making him unquestionably loyal, rather than leaving it ambiguous as to whether he was about to side with Horus).

Yeah, but remember who wrote the Dawn of War novels.

Some were Goto, yes. But I would stand up and speak out for Chris Robinson who wrote Dawn of War 2, which was actually a canon, fairly well written piece, and actually inspired me to change my poorly painted Battle for Macragge Ultramarines into badly painted Blood Ravens.

DOW 2 is an absolutely atrocious story that gives Graham McNeil and Ben Counter a run for their money on the level of awful it was.

Why?

Boring story with no draw, uninspired characters, a twist that has been done to death in 40k and was even done in the previous game, KHORNE PSYKERS, dull writing, lampooned voice acting of such a terrible degree that it has turned into memes and even launched an entire 40k fan-club dedicated to lampooning the VA, etc.

Plus there's greater problems with the entire game series, like turning Chaos into a Saturday Morning Cartoon Villains (Eliphas especially seeing the dude never actually DIES), completely forgetting important, unique units to certain factions, and DOW II making the battles ridiculously small. The only good things DOW II brought to the table were better graphics, Last Stand, and laying the framework of a game so modders (like with DOW I) could then take the game and make it legitimately good and true to 40k.

Ah, so you actually haven't read a word of the novelisation I mentioned. Go read and then you can have an opinion. Never played the games so couldn't care less for them.

Khorne Psykers are fine. Care cares not from where the blood is spilled or by who, only that it flows (and you don't use your tricksy magicks to cheat).

Except Khorne Explicitly hates psykers and sorcerers. He'd never elevate one to the level of Daemon Prince. Not to mention the whole plot of "it turned out the Librarian was the villain" is straight from DOW I, and all they did was do it again in the second series because Relic is bankrupt on creativity.

Except that Khorne cares not from where the blood flows, or by whom, only that it flows, and you don't cheat. Don't forget that he was also Chapter Master and he doesn't have to use his powers to fight. The Blood Ravens mostly use theirbLibrarians to divine the enemy positions and then curbstomp. Doesn't mean he necessarily uses them to blast people when he's losing. Plus, I'm pretty sure there were external factors (Maledictum) that helped his Daemonhood but having never played the game, Lexicanum is my only source.

On the note of having the same twist...really? You really don't get the link? Kyras, Chief Librarian, corrupted the entire Librarius, including Angelos' friend from DoW 1. DoW the idea was it was an isolated incident. By DoW 2 you have the Chapter Master Chief Librarian falling. The Blood Ravens can't trust anyone now, especially in the Librarius, which will severely cripple them as they genuinely rely on their Librarians. That is the twist, not "Another psyker turns evil."

Still a tiresome message. "Oh no. The psyker is evil in 40k. Who would have guessed?"

I really would like some heroic psykers for a change. My one complaint with Abnett's books is that not once - not once - does a daemon try to eat Eisenhorn or Ravenor's brains. Eisenhorn's a minor talent, but Ravenor's a freaking alpha-level psyker who tosses powers around like candy. You trying to tell me he never once gets the narrative equivalent of box cars?

 Deadshot wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 DanielBeaver wrote:
Thousand Sons - It's not official cannon, but the Black Library authors are pretty heavy-handed about making the parallels. I hope they stick with that approach, as I like the ambiguity (and they're liable to ruin everything by making them Ultramarines offshoots, or something like that. Sort of how they ruined the Lion's character by making him unquestionably loyal, rather than leaving it ambiguous as to whether he was about to side with Horus).

Yeah, but remember who wrote the Dawn of War novels.

Some were Goto, yes. But I would stand up and speak out for Chris Robinson who wrote Dawn of War 2, which was actually a canon, fairly well written piece, and actually inspired me to change my poorly painted Battle for Macragge Ultramarines into badly painted Blood Ravens.

DOW 2 is an absolutely atrocious story that gives Graham McNeil and Ben Counter a run for their money on the level of awful it was.

Why?

Boring story with no draw, uninspired characters, a twist that has been done to death in 40k and was even done in the previous game, KHORNE PSYKERS, dull writing, lampooned voice acting of such a terrible degree that it has turned into memes and even launched an entire 40k fan-club dedicated to lampooning the VA, etc.

Plus there's greater problems with the entire game series, like turning Chaos into a Saturday Morning Cartoon Villains (Eliphas especially seeing the dude never actually DIES), completely forgetting important, unique units to certain factions, and DOW II making the battles ridiculously small. The only good things DOW II brought to the table were better graphics, Last Stand, and laying the framework of a game so modders (like with DOW I) could then take the game and make it legitimately good and true to 40k.

Ah, so you actually haven't read a word of the novelisation I mentioned. Go read and then you can have an opinion. Never played the games so couldn't care less for them.

Khorne Psykers are fine. Care cares not from where the blood is spilled or by who, only that it flows (and you don't use your tricksy magicks to cheat).

Except Khorne Explicitly hates psykers and sorcerers. He'd never elevate one to the level of Daemon Prince. Not to mention the whole plot of "it turned out the Librarian was the villain" is straight from DOW I, and all they did was do it again in the second series because Relic is bankrupt on creativity.

Except that Khorne cares not from where the blood flows, or by whom, only that it flows, and you don't cheat. Don't forget that he was also Chapter Master and he doesn't have to use his powers to fight. The Blood Ravens mostly use theirbLibrarians to divine the enemy positions and then curbstomp. Doesn't mean he necessarily uses them to blast people when he's losing. Plus, I'm pretty sure there were external factors (Maledictum) that helped his Daemonhood but having never played the game, Lexicanum is my only source.

On the note of having the same twist...really? You really don't get the link? Kyras, Chief Librarian, corrupted the entire Librarius, including Angelos' friend from DoW 1. DoW the idea was it was an isolated incident. By DoW 2 you have the Chapter Master Chief Librarian falling. The Blood Ravens can't trust anyone now, especially in the Librarius, which will severely cripple them as they genuinely rely on their Librarians. That is the twist, not "Another psyker turns evil."

Except the Librarium quite clearly wasn't corrupted at all by your assumptions as according to the Index Astartes article on the Blood Ravens, their Librarians are running as usual after the events of DOW II.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Still a tiresome message. "Oh no. The psyker is evil in 40k. Who would have guessed?"

I really would like some heroic psykers for a change. My one complaint with Abnett's books is that not once - not once - does a daemon try to eat Eisenhorn or Ravenor's brains. Eisenhorn's a minor talent, but Ravenor's a freaking alpha-level psyker who tosses powers around like candy. You trying to tell me he never once gets the narrative equivalent of box cars?

Well there's always Dak'ir, the humanist Salamander who's pretty much the 40k version of superman, chopped a Battle Barge in half with a swing of his sword, blew up a couple other ships IIRC, tossed a daemon the size of a Kaiju into a volcano after a DBZ style fight, then allowed himself to be killed by his nemesis to prevent himself from losing control. Although he'll probably resurrect again by the events of the next series.

He certainly isn't the most fleshed out and deep character, but he plays the hero trope straight.

... I'm asking too much from 40k novels, aren't I?

sigh.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
... I'm asking too much from 40k novels, aren't I?

sigh.

Well Ahriman is a sympathetic character....

There also was that one Eldar Farseer in Path of the Eldar, although she a bit of a whiner at times.

 Wyzilla wrote:

There also was that one Eldar Farseer in Path of the Eldar, although she a bit of a whiner at times.

That's actually quite realistic

The Horus Heresy series isn't over. It's premature to say the origin of the Blood Ravens, if it goes back to the heresy, will never be revealed.

It is of note that the character and his group suspected by most readers of being the Blood Ravens' founders or whatever are still active in the story, too (Revuel Arvida appeared in Scars, which is a relatively recent HH book). This just goes to show that they likely weren't simply an off-hand comment meant to fuel speculation about the Blood Ravens, but instead that there is a high chance the Black Library Writers actually intend to do something with them. Thus it is highly likely that eventually, they'll either be revealed to be the Blood Ravens' founders or revealed to be something else (though I'd say higher chances on the former) or at the very least, killed off or SOMETHING that will answer the questions about whether or not they became the original Blood Ravens. Basically, they're still in the plot and thus odds are pretty good the BL writers intend to resolve their plot, whatever it may be.

well, i need to find that freaking salamander book...NEED.

Probably the unknown legion. Something like Record Loosers. They've lost all records of their own legion and their fellow 2-d (or 11-th, noone knows cause all the records have been lost) and got exterminated for that with the exception of a handful of marines cause noone knew for sure if they belonged to Record Loosers cause you can't tell for sure without a record...