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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/24 23:27:34
Subject: 12 year old shot and killed by police for waving toy gun in Cleveland
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Hangin' with Gork & Mork
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A twelve year isn't so young to think it is ok to reach for a weapon when told otherwise.
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Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/25 00:14:43
Subject: Re:12 year old shot and killed by police for waving toy gun in Cleveland
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Was the LEO a former service member that deployed to OIF/OEF?
It is not uncommon on seeing kids take the fight to Coalition forces
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Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog
Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/25 00:17:08
Subject: 12 year old shot and killed by police for waving toy gun in Cleveland
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Chongara wrote:
Better yet, here's a question: How many people do the police kill each year like at all , innocent or otherwise? How many shootings are they involved in? That's the kind of information one needs to make the assertion you just did, but that's not information that's made available in any fashion even resembling comprehensive. So i'm not really sure how you could make that claim in good faith because it's not a figure that's knowable by the public.
We don't have comprehensive records of who our police are killing or why. The best numbers I've been able to find peg it at "Some number more than about 400 year".
It may not fully answer your questions, but here's an article that I found earlier today:
http://rt.com/usa/208403-utah-police-gangs-homicide/
It may or may not be entirely accurate, but, if it's true.... then in some places in the US, the police are definitely "worse" than your average criminal.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
The "lack" of gun control in the US is exactly where it should be. Afterall, we founded the whole dang country on the principle that men should be able to defend themselves.
Of course, the founding fathers viewed the "militia" which they defined as "the whole of the population" as all the army they'd need, and that much of the navy would be supplied by well-to-do people with a vested interest in maritime happenings.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/25 00:19:47
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/25 00:37:08
Subject: Re:12 year old shot and killed by police for waving toy gun in Cleveland
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Waaagh! Ork Warboss on Warbike
Waiting at the Dark Tower steps..
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Police officer in Germany shoots a man charging him with a knife (in the leg)- guy lives.
Police officer in America shoots a kid for holding a toy gun (In the head)-kid dies
Only in America.
Sorry but I have talked to cops the reason why they shoot to kill is because they would hate to get sued.
That's wrong
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First rule of Avatars in a room is: you never call the mods. Second rule of Avatars in a room is: you never call the mods. -Tyler Durden |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/25 00:38:50
Subject: 12 year old shot and killed by police for waving toy gun in Cleveland
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Member of the Ethereal Council
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Who is to say the cophone in Germany didn't get lucky and miss the center of mass and hit the leg?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/25 00:50:26
Subject: 12 year old shot and killed by police for waving toy gun in Cleveland
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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hotsauceman1 wrote:Who is to say the cophone in Germany didn't get lucky and miss the center of mass and hit the leg?
This is actually probably down to the "panic" mode that people get into... when you have less than a second to (I'm presuming a bit here) draw, take off safe, aim, and fire.... Your shot isn't going to be Patton at the Olympics accurate.
@zombiekilla.... It may be "wrong" for cops to "shoot to kill" vs. shooting to wound in order to avoid litigation, but there is a very good reason for it as well..... If you're aiming center mass, or "aiming to kill" you are aiming for the largest portion of the human body, the odds of missing, depending on range is much much lower than if that same cop were purposefully aiming at an arm or a leg. And litigation is more a state of the US, as opposed to strictly a state of Law Enforcement. IIRC, there was a case in Oregon when I was growing up of a man who busted in a house window (breaking and entering) and the home owner was home, defended his home, and shot the guy, either in the thigh, or the arse (I don't really remember that detail). The guy was very quickly picked up by the police and received treatment. The criminal turned around and tried to sue the homeowner for "wrongful injury"
To put this another way: IF you were out hunting a deer or elk, where would you aim? You'd aim for the heart/mass of the animal to put it down, you wouldn't aim for a leg in hopes of "immobilizing" it.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/25 00:50:55
Subject: 12 year old shot and killed by police for waving toy gun in Cleveland
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Waaagh! Ork Warboss on Warbike
Waiting at the Dark Tower steps..
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hotsauceman1 wrote:Who is to say the cophone in Germany didn't get lucky and miss the center of mass and hit the leg?
Nope just wanted to stop the assailant in non lethal means. My point is America we shoot to kill and every other week someone gets shot by a cop for having a knife or plastic gun now those cops not only aim for the head (which in certain circumstances I can understand) But they blow the whole clip at the suspect making sure they are dead.
Not saying america is a police state! But I think its wrong for a cop to blast a kid for holding a toy gun when he could have shot him in the leg or arm or even in the body Which is still a high chance that he could survive.
Its also a kid in america not Somalia.
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First rule of Avatars in a room is: you never call the mods. Second rule of Avatars in a room is: you never call the mods. -Tyler Durden |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/25 00:51:12
Subject: Re:12 year old shot and killed by police for waving toy gun in Cleveland
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Fixture of Dakka
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zombiekila707 wrote:Police officer in Germany shoots a man charging him with a knife (in the leg)- guy lives.
Police officer in America shoots a kid for holding a toy gun (In the head)-kid dies
Only in America.
Sorry but I have talked to cops the reason why they shoot to kill is because they would hate to get sued.
That's wrong
I've talked to cops also and there are a few on these boards. They say they want to make sure they aren't the ones killed.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/25 00:52:38
Subject: 12 year old shot and killed by police for waving toy gun in Cleveland
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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zombiekila707 wrote:
..... when he could have shot him in the leg or arm or even in the body Which is still a high chance that he could survive.
Please, read my above comment.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/25 00:57:42
Subject: 12 year old shot and killed by police for waving toy gun in Cleveland
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Waaagh! Ork Warboss on Warbike
Waiting at the Dark Tower steps..
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Ensis Ferrae wrote: hotsauceman1 wrote:Who is to say the cophone in Germany didn't get lucky and miss the center of mass and hit the leg?
This is actually probably down to the "panic" mode that people get into... when you have less than a second to (I'm presuming a bit here) draw, take off safe, aim, and fire.... Your shot isn't going to be Patton at the Olympics accurate.
@zombiekilla.... It may be "wrong" for cops to "shoot to kill" vs. shooting to wound in order to avoid litigation, but there is a very good reason for it as well..... If you're aiming center mass, or "aiming to kill" you are aiming for the largest portion of the human body, the odds of missing, depending on range is much much lower than if that same cop were purposefully aiming at an arm or a leg. And litigation is more a state of the US, as opposed to strictly a state of Law Enforcement. IIRC, there was a case in Oregon when I was growing up of a man who busted in a house window (breaking and entering) and the home owner was home, defended his home, and shot the guy, either in the thigh, or the arse (I don't really remember that detail). The guy was very quickly picked up by the police and received treatment. The criminal turned around and tried to sue the homeowner for "wrongful injury"
To put this another way: IF you were out hunting a deer or elk, where would you aim? You'd aim for the heart/mass of the animal to put it down, you wouldn't aim for a leg in hopes of "immobilizing" it.
Now this is where it gets shaky I total understand the whole breaking and entering and how if you are drawing on someone breaking into your home you:
1)wait till they are in your house.
2)shoot them in the head.
3)call the cops.
Because that robber can sue the crap out of you! The difference is that we are talking about a kid. This thing also has happens at least 10 or 15 times a year. Hell in my town alone some kid was shot as well little more then a year ago.
Here is the link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Andy_Lopez
Same thing as the one in Ohio
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First rule of Avatars in a room is: you never call the mods. Second rule of Avatars in a room is: you never call the mods. -Tyler Durden |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/25 01:13:50
Subject: Re:12 year old shot and killed by police for waving toy gun in Cleveland
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The Conquerer
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
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zombiekila707 wrote:Police officer in Germany shoots a man charging him with a knife (in the leg)- guy lives.
Police officer in America shoots a kid for holding a toy gun (In the head)-kid dies
Only in America.
Sorry but I have talked to cops the reason why they shoot to kill is because they would hate to get sued.
That's wrong
German cop is very very very very lucky his leg shot stopped the guy.
Legs are actually surprisingly durable. Outside of the bullet getting lucky and shattering the femur, its not going to significantly impede your movement by getting shot there. Especially if you are in the middle of a charge.
95% of the time, the guy would still make it to the Cop and begin stabbing, all you've given him is a lot of extra incentive to hurt you.
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Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/25 02:08:28
Subject: 12 year old shot and killed by police for waving toy gun in Cleveland
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Fixture of Dakka
CL VI Store in at the Cyber Center of Excellence
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insaniak wrote:
And that, I think, is the crux of the problem. Because I'm not going to agree that the fact that a child was involved was irrelevant.
The fact that it was a child should have affected how the situation was dealt with, because that fact that it was a child for one affected the liklihood of it being a real gun, and for two had an impact on how they were likely to react.
lol. I posted links to two stories where 12 year olds murdered people using guns.
unicorns and rainbows.
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Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/25 02:16:25
Subject: 12 year old shot and killed by police for waving toy gun in Cleveland
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Dundee, Scotland/Dharahn, Saudi Arabia
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You're right, it was badly handled, by the kid.
What happened was the logical conclusion of his act.
Even a 12 year old should know that waving a(n apparently real) gun around in a playground, especially in a US city, is going to get you shot.
Trying to pull a(n apparently real) gun on a cop is going to get you shot.
This kid died of a bad case of stupid.
Sadly it's a condition that is often fatal.
The cop had no choice but to assume the gun is real.
The subsequent events were only to be expected.
The cop also didn't know the kid was 12, news reports have him as tall for his age, and 12 or not, still old enough to pull a trigger.
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If the thought of something makes me giggle for longer than 15 seconds, I am to assume that I am not allowed to do it. item 87, skippys list
DC:70S+++G+++M+++B+++I++Pw40k86/f#-D+++++A++++/cWD86R+++++T(D)DM++ |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/25 02:30:21
Subject: 12 year old shot and killed by police for waving toy gun in Cleveland
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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zombiekila707 wrote:
Now this is where it gets shaky I total understand the whole breaking and entering and how if you are drawing on someone breaking into your home you:
1)wait till they are in your house.
2)shoot them in the head.
3)call the cops.
Because that robber can sue the crap out of you!
I think you're somewhat missing my point here.... When time is of the essence, the best place to aim for subduing someone is center mass. Sometimes, especially with a pistol, you'll "pull" your shots. I myself have pulled shots high in anticipation of recoil from my pistol at the range.
And, as for robbers suing homeowners, I don't believe they've ever gotten very far, at least outside of California or New York
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/25 02:49:12
Subject: 12 year old shot and killed by police for waving toy gun in Cleveland
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[MOD]
Making Stuff
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CptJake wrote:lol. I posted links to two stories where 12 year olds murdered people using guns.
So? I never claimed it doesn't happen. I said his age made it less likely.
Which was borne out by the fact that, you know, he didn't actually have a real gun. Automatically Appended Next Post: Ensis Ferrae wrote:I think you're somewhat missing my point here.... When time is of the essence, the best place to aim for subduing someone is center mass.D
Time wouldn't have been 'of the essense' if police hadn't goaded him into drawing his 'gun'. And even then, it wasn't actually 'of the essense' since his gun wasn't real.
If he had been approached like a 12 year old kid instead of as a crazed gunman, all of this could have been avoided.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/25 02:51:36
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/25 03:03:21
Subject: 12 year old shot and killed by police for waving toy gun in Cleveland
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Confessor Of Sins
WA, USA
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Huh? How did the police 'goad' him?
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Ouze wrote:
Afterward, Curran killed a guy in the parking lot with a trident.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/25 03:12:27
Subject: 12 year old shot and killed by police for waving toy gun in Cleveland
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[MOD]
Making Stuff
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Going by the news article, the gun was tucked into his pants when they got there. He pulled it out when they told him to raise his hands... but didn't point it at them. So was just as likely taking it out to show them that it wasn't a real gun.
Either way, it sure sounds like it was the police charging in there as if he was an armed felon that escalated this nonsense.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/25 03:18:42
Subject: 12 year old shot and killed by police for waving toy gun in Cleveland
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Fixture of Dakka
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Relapse wrote: Jehan-reznor wrote:Were warning shots fired. was the kid told to drop the "weapon"?
Or is the shoot first ask questions later ok?
Guess you didn't read the article very closely in your hurry to demonize the cop.
Where did i demonize the cop? i was asking questions.
Why did the dispatcher not relay the information? Do shotguns in a police car have different ammo? (like a bean bag?)
I am sorry but i com from a culture where the cop is only allowed to fire when the assailant is really charging the police officer, and violence is only used as the last option.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/25 03:27:14
Subject: 12 year old shot and killed by police for waving toy gun in Cleveland
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Fixture of Dakka
CL VI Store in at the Cyber Center of Excellence
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insaniak wrote: CptJake wrote:lol. I posted links to two stories where 12 year olds murdered people using guns.
So? I never claimed it doesn't happen. I said his age made it less likely.
Which was borne out by the fact that, you know, he didn't actually have a real gun.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ensis Ferrae wrote:I think you're somewhat missing my point here.... When time is of the essence, the best place to aim for subduing someone is center mass.D
Time wouldn't have been 'of the essense' if police hadn't goaded him into drawing his 'gun'. And even then, it wasn't actually 'of the essense' since his gun wasn't real.
If he had been approached like a 12 year old kid instead of as a crazed gunman, all of this could have been avoided.
I can't tell if you're trolling or just willfully ignorant. Either way, your misrepresentation of the situation isn't gonna convince anyone who actually looks at the info reported and has a basic understanding.
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Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/25 03:34:33
Subject: Re:12 year old shot and killed by police for waving toy gun in Cleveland
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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Edit: never mind.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/25 03:35:54
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
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-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/25 03:34:37
Subject: 12 year old shot and killed by police for waving toy gun in Cleveland
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[MOD]
Making Stuff
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Which part have I misrepresented?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/25 03:42:28
Subject: 12 year old shot and killed by police for waving toy gun in Cleveland
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Lieutenant Colonel
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insaniak wrote:
Which was borne out by the fact that, you know, he didn't actually have a real gun.
its a bit naive to look back on it with 20/20 hindsight and say things like "Look the fact is, the kid didnt have a real gun" when that fact is, that "fact" was an unknown at the time.
Its a sad situation all around, but you are taking a very one sided approach when you solely criticize decisions that were made by officers in the heat of the moment, over say the parents decision to not properly supervise their kid, or the kids decision to not comply with officers orders.
As it is, its far more likely that a parent would notice their kid has removed the orange markings from toy guns sometime while the kid was playing with it at home, then for the officer to realize that as the kid went for it. Had the parent been present they could have remedied or prevented the situation in all likelihood.
Letting your kids run around with things that look almost identical to guns unsupervised is akin to letting them play in traffic. In a perfect world drivers would still not hit the kids in traffic, because of their training to cope with high stress split second decisions like what to do when a kid runs out into the middle of the street for no reason (or what to do when a kid has a gun and is going for it for no reason) the fact is risky behaviors breed accidents unfortunately.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/25 03:49:16
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/25 03:50:16
Subject: 12 year old shot and killed by police for waving toy gun in Cleveland
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[MOD]
Making Stuff
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easysauce wrote:its a bit naive to look back on it with 20/20 hindsight and say things like "Look the fact is, the kid didnt have a real gun" when that fact is, that "fact" was an unknown at the time.
But that fact might have been known at the time if police had taken the time to talk to him before deciding to treat him like a pending lunatic.
Its a sad situation all around, but you are taking a very one sided approach when you solely criticize decisions that were made by officers in the heat of the moment, over say the parents decision to not properly supervise their kid, or the kids decision to not comply with officers orders.
Yes, I am. Because those officers shot a 12 year old boy 'armed' with a toy gun that he wasn't even pointing at them.
So yes, damn straight I'm taking a 'one sided approach' to that. Because its inexcusable.
As it is, its far more likely that a parent would notice their kid has removed the orange markings from toy guns sometime while the kid was playing with it at home, ...
I very much doubt that most parents would inspect their childrens' toys on any sort of a regular basis in order to determine whether they have been altered into something that could be confused with a real weapon.
Letting your kids run around with things that look almost identical to guns unsupervised is akin to letting them play in traffic. In a perfect world drivers would still not hit the kids in traffic, because of their training to cope with high stress split second decisions like what to do when a kid runs out into the middle of the street for no reason (or what to do when a kid has a gun and is going for it for no reason) the fact is risky behaviors breed accidents unfortunately.
Sure. Except the 'accident' in this case is that the kid was playing in the traffic, and the police have driven up and and run him over instead of suggesting to him that what he was doing wasn't a great idea.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/25 03:51:08
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/25 03:50:45
Subject: 12 year old shot and killed by police for waving toy gun in Cleveland
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The Conquerer
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
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insaniak wrote:
Going by the news article, the gun was tucked into his pants when they got there. He pulled it out when they told him to raise his hands... but didn't point it at them. So was just as likely taking it out to show them that it wasn't a real gun.
Either way, it sure sounds like it was the police charging in there as if he was an armed felon that escalated this nonsense.
That bolded part there is the thing. If a weapon gets drawn, you assume with every fiber of your being its going to be shot at you. You do not give them time to aim at you and put him down before he gets a chance.
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Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/25 04:01:59
Subject: 12 year old shot and killed by police for waving toy gun in Cleveland
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Lieutenant Colonel
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insaniak wrote:
Yes, I am. Because those officers shot a 12 year old boy 'armed' with a toy gun that he wasn't even pointing at them.
So yes, damn straight I'm taking a 'one sided approach' to that. Because its inexcusable.
As it is, its far more likely that a parent would notice their kid has removed the orange markings from toy guns sometime while the kid was playing with it at home, ...
I very much doubt that most parents would inspect their childrens' toys on any sort of a regular basis in order to determine whether they have been altered into something that could be confused with a real weapon. so its too hard for parents to supervise their children and their toys, but you expect officers to instantly know the difference between a black handgun, and an almost identical fake gun that someone is drawing from their waist?
Letting your kids run around with things that look almost identical to guns unsupervised is akin to letting them play in traffic. In a perfect world drivers would still not hit the kids in traffic, because of their training to cope with high stress split second decisions like what to do when a kid runs out into the middle of the street for no reason (or what to do when a kid has a gun and is going for it for no reason) the fact is risky behaviors breed accidents unfortunately.
Sure. Except the 'accident' in this case is that the kid was playing in the traffic, and the police have driven up and and run him over instead of suggesting to him that what he was doing wasn't a great idea.
again, you keep applying facts that were not known until after, to the officers decision, and you are equating a decision made in a split second with one being made under no pressure at all.
You dont have time to tell kids to stop playing in traffic when they are *already jumping out in front of your car* the same way you dont have time to politely ask someone if the gun they are reaching for is real or not, especially if you have already told them to put up their hands.
Telling a suspect to put up their hands and surrender, is in fact, attempting a non violent method to diffuse the situation you suggest, it was tried, it failed the second that kid went for what looked like a gun.
The proper response to "put your hands up" is to put your hands up, not reach for guns, or what visually is very much a gun, in your waistband
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/25 04:02:26
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/25 04:22:01
Subject: 12 year old shot and killed by police for waving toy gun in Cleveland
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[MOD]
Making Stuff
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easysauce wrote:so its too hard for parents to supervise their children and their toys, but you expect officers to instantly know the difference between a black handgun, and an almost identical fake gun that someone is drawing from their waist?
No, I expect police officers to use other methods to defuse a potentially violent situation rather than just shooting a 12 year old.
Whether or not they identified it as a toy gun on the spot is irrelevant. He didn't have the gun out when they arrived. They should have approached the situation in a way that kept it non-confrontational... in which case they might have found out that it wasn't a real gun before anyone got shot.
Instead, they shot him.
The proper response to "put your hands up" is to put your hands up, not reach for guns, or what visually is very much a gun, in your waistband
And when you're talking about an adult, it's a bit more reasonable to expect that.
It's all too likely that the thing that got this kid shot was just freaking out at having police officers pointing guns at him, and he wasn't thinking at all about what he was doing.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/25 04:23:08
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/25 04:43:39
Subject: 12 year old shot and killed by police for waving toy gun in Cleveland
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Wraith
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insaniak wrote: easysauce wrote:so its too hard for parents to supervise their children and their toys, but you expect officers to instantly know the difference between a black handgun, and an almost identical fake gun that someone is drawing from their waist?
No, I expect police officers to use other methods to defuse a potentially violent situation rather than just shooting a 12 year old.
Whether or not they identified it as a toy gun on the spot is irrelevant. He didn't have the gun out when they arrived. They should have approached the situation in a way that kept it non-confrontational... in which case they might have found out that it wasn't a real gun before anyone got shot.
Instead, they shot him.
Any report of a gun, where it cannot be confirmed that is not a real fire arm, warrants the same response. Officer safety is paramount. He had the gun in his waistband, fine. Do you know how quick someone can pull that gun and shoot you. Yes, even a child. You can try and diffuse the situation all you want, but the training all officers have is that a gun is a threat until you confirm that it is not a threat.
The proper response to "put your hands up" is to put your hands up, not reach for guns, or what visually is very much a gun, in your waistband
And when you're talking about an adult, it's a bit more reasonable to expect that.
It's all too likely that the thing that got this kid shot was just freaking out at having police officers pointing guns at him, and he wasn't thinking at all about what he was doing.
"Put your hands up" isn't a confrontational unless you intend to disobey the command. I was taught as a child to listen the police. The video will show how the child reacted, and if it was anything remotely aggressive, the officers reacted as they are trained to.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/25 05:01:08
Subject: 12 year old shot and killed by police for waving toy gun in Cleveland
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[MOD]
Not as Good as a Minion
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gunslingerpro wrote:
"Put your hands up" isn't a confrontational unless you intend to disobey the command.
That's quite narrow thinking. For example, as has been seen in all the events near Ferguson, there are multiple ways for police to approach a situation, all with the same goal. Initially in Ferguson they approached crowds, and look what happened. Then they took a different approach, and there was far less violence. Until the video is seen, we don't know if the police went in like the initial police did in Ferguson, or if they acted responsibly like the (from memory) state police did in Ferguson.
As odd as it sounds to say, hopefully they acted as responsibly as they could have and it was simply a tragedy for everyone involved, rather than poor training and attitude. At least if it is the former it hopefully won't happen again.
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I wish I had time for all the game systems I own, let alone want to own... |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/25 06:25:55
Subject: 12 year old shot and killed by police for waving toy gun in Cleveland
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Fixture of Dakka
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insaniak wrote: CptJake wrote:lol. I posted links to two stories where 12 year olds murdered people using guns.
So? I never claimed it doesn't happen. I said his age made it less likely.
Which was borne out by the fact that, you know, he didn't actually have a real gun.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ensis Ferrae wrote:I think you're somewhat missing my point here.... When time is of the essence, the best place to aim for subduing someone is center mass.D
Time wouldn't have been 'of the essense' if police hadn't goaded him into drawing his 'gun'. And even then, it wasn't actually 'of the essense' since his gun wasn't real.
If he had been approached like a 12 year old kid instead of as a crazed gunman, all of this could have been avoided.
Tell me again where you get this mystical power of knowing exactly what the officer saw and exactly what he should have done since it would have been obvious to you the gun was a toy and no violence was meant.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/25 06:32:00
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/25 09:21:30
Subject: 12 year old shot and killed by police for waving toy gun in Cleveland
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[MOD]
Making Stuff
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Oookay... So if we're up to the 'Making arguments against things that weren't actually said' part of the discussion, I think I'm done.
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