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I concur, see above. A gay bloke once savagely grabbed both of my plums in a bar and after I managed to dislodge his hand I just wandered over to my missus, told her what happened, and we both found it most amusing, I'm sure the same wouldn't be true if a bloke jammed his hand up my missus skirt.
In my case, it has turned into an amusing anecdote I actually wheel out at parties.
Life is a rich tapestry of experiences for everyone, but often people don't bother to stop and think about why they think what they think, and what makes them behave the way they do. If all men could self-evaluate in the way that you have done, perhaps things would change for the better.
Unfortunately, many blokes prefer to just complain about people wanting them to apologise for being white men, and so totally and utterly miss the point.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/03 20:50:31
mattyrm wrote: Obviously I agree with the majority of your post Ketara, but its words like "suffering" that I feel we use too cheaply.
I mean, actual harassment is suffering, if some arsehole shouts at you in the street or says something obscene its fething shocking, but if my wife goes to the game store to get me a game and the bloke says "So is this for your boyfriend or something?" are we actually classing that as "suffering" as well?
Being too aggressive with absolutely anything normally has a negative affect, whether its religion, feminism, drinking pints or loving candy. I think they should concentrate on the big issues like actual sexism and harassment more (number 22 is a perfect example!) and leave things like "people think I might be faking my interest" off.
The Wikipedia article (micro aggressions) that was linked captured that their are different levels.
I concur, see above. A gay bloke once savagely grabbed both of my plums in a bar and after I managed to dislodge his hand I just wandered over to my missus, told her what happened, and we both found it most amusing, I'm sure the same wouldn't be true if a bloke jammed his hand up my missus skirt.
In my case, it has turned into an amusing anecdote I actually wheel out at parties.
Life is a rich tapestry of experiences for everyone, but often people don't bother to stop and think about why they think what they think, and what makes them behave the way they do. If all men could self-evaluate in the way that you have done, perhaps things would change for the better.
Unfortunately, many blokes prefer to just complain about people wanting them to apologise for being white men, and so totally and utterly miss the point.
Yes of course, and that's what why I am talking about perception, not being critical of feminism. I think the fact that you have to do so much reading to fully understand the roots of the movement have made it be perceived critically by a great many people. I doubt that many of the posters on dakka that are instantly skeptical about these things (the guys posting in here without even watching it for example) are actually truly against equality for women, I just think there have been so many mountains made of the small issues, that many people are instantly skeptical and go "Oh here come the feminists again"
This needs to change in my eyes, because it harms the principals of a movement that I, and I am sure the vast majority of men and women fully agree with. At least in the west anyway!
If they cut that list down to the 10 most striking examples say, more people might watch it and go "yes! we must fight for this cause!" rather than "Oh feth me they complain about everything this lot!" you know what I mean? I had a chat with Mel about it, I think its like being a flag-waving atheist or a bible-thumping Christian, being really aggressive with your campaign can actually do a lot more harm than good.
We are arming Syrian rebels who support ISIS, who is fighting Iran, who is fighting Iraq who we also support against ISIS, while fighting Kurds who we support while they are fighting Syrian rebels.
Also one of the reasons people complain about the "small" stuff because it can get super annoying after awhile. Of course the big things matter, but being told "ignore" or "get over it" starts to wear you down.
Besides, people can't even agree on the "big" things and what they are.
Edit: See the whole issue about language and how certain terminology can create an unwelcoming environment.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/03 21:02:45
Also one of the reasons people complain about the "small" stuff because it can get super annoying after awhile. Of course the big things matter, but being told "ignore" or "get over it" starts to wear you down.
Besides, people can't even agree on the "big" things and what they are.
Edit: See the whole issue about language and how certain terminology can create an unwelcoming environment.
Oh yeah I conceded that point back a page, I can well imagine things that I perceive to be small are actually really fething annoying, I'm just saying that a mob is only as smart as its dumbest member, and I think the equality argument could be better made by simply sticking with the visibly fething awful. However, I obviously don't disagree that many of the things that we men perceive to be small are actually rather large.
We are arming Syrian rebels who support ISIS, who is fighting Iran, who is fighting Iraq who we also support against ISIS, while fighting Kurds who we support while they are fighting Syrian rebels.
So who gets to define "visibly fething awful" to you, Matty?
Do only straight white men who hate feminists get to define it?
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
Also one of the reasons people complain about the "small" stuff because it can get super annoying after awhile. Of course the big things matter, but being told "ignore" or "get over it" starts to wear you down.
Besides, people can't even agree on the "big" things and what they are.
Edit: See the whole issue about language and how certain terminology can create an unwelcoming environment.
Oh yeah I conceded that point back a page, I can well imagine things that I perceive to be small are actually really fething annoying, I'm just saying that a mob is only as smart as its dumbest member, and I think the equality argument could be better made by simply sticking with the visibly fething awful. However, I obviously don't disagree that many of the things that we men perceive to be small are actually rather large.
Talking about only the really bad stuff might give the impression that your doing fine as long as your not visibly fething awful. I think part of the point of bring up the small stuff is that people might never think about the small stuff and it if's a bad thing to do. It's not really to shame and make people feel bad, but to get people to maybe change up some of the small annoying bits.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/03 21:24:43
Melissia wrote: So who gets to define "visibly fething awful" to you, Matty?
Do only straight white men who hate feminists get to define it?
I dunno, I'm just saying you know.. if you want a movement to succeed you have to appeal to the masses, and so many people are needlessly critical of feminism because they don't fully understand it, so I think its something worth thinking about. Maybe I'm giving them too much credit, I just don't think that most people that slag off "feminism" REALLY hate women do they? You and I have talked about this plenty of times, Iike loads of women dismiss feminism, and they don't dislike feminism, Its just got bad press and we should attempt to address that.
Don;t ask me though, its all above my pay-grade and you are the one better versed on the whole thing.
Don't you think its a valid point? The mob is fickle, this skepticism needs to be addressed because it harms a movement that we should all wish to see succeed. Like if we see a story about a girl getting sent a cock-shot we all rail against it, but if we see something more trivial then people instantly complain about feminists and make out like they are all trite and churlish. Its all well and good telling people to do their research, but they don't!
We are arming Syrian rebels who support ISIS, who is fighting Iran, who is fighting Iraq who we also support against ISIS, while fighting Kurds who we support while they are fighting Syrian rebels.
This is where the concept of micro-aggression is helpful. Prejudice is not only about overt, intentional actions, like burning a cross in somebody's front yard. It's more about unconsciously and uncritically held assumptions.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/12/03 21:24:11
That's the issue in a nutshell. "Who gets to make the rules?" This is the reason people get so worked up about this kind of topic.
I think that's life in a nutshell isn't it?
We are arming Syrian rebels who support ISIS, who is fighting Iran, who is fighting Iraq who we also support against ISIS, while fighting Kurds who we support while they are fighting Syrian rebels.
mattyrm wrote: I think that's life in a nutshell isn't it?
That's certainly the dominant perspective, which precisely explains why people invest so much time and emotional intensity into these matters -- they know that even if we're only talking about video games on the surface, everything is implicated.
mattyrm wrote: I dunno, I'm just saying you know.. if you want a movement to succeed you have to appeal to the masses
In order to appeal to the masses you must educate them. That's what videos like this are about.
mattyrm wrote: and so many people are needlessly critical of feminism because they don't fully understand it
Or because they are politically or philosophically opposed to women being equal in society to men, but don't want to admit it. Or because they buy in to the status quo, without thinking about it, as the status quo is comforting to them.
mattyrm wrote: I just don't think that most people that slag off "feminism" REALLY hate women do they?
Hate? No. But they have biases against women.
mattyrm wrote: ou and I have talked about this plenty of times, Iike loads of women dismiss feminism, and they don't dislike feminism,
So? We have scientific studies that have shown that women are just as biased as men-- biased, I should note, against other women. Given two identical resumes, one with a male name and the other female, most people will default to thinking the male resume is more qualified, and it's only if they really think about it that they'll realize that they're really the exact same. Same for interviews, as well. And there's no statistically significant difference between the percent of bias shown by male managers vs female managers against prospective female employees.
This sort of thing bleeds over both from and in to the overall culture, both caused by and causing itself, and only continually challenging it and forcing people to really think clearly about their biases will get it to slow down, never mind stop.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/03 21:29:57
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
mattyrm wrote: Obviously I agree with the majority of your post Ketara, but its words like "suffering" that I feel we use too cheaply.
I mean, actual harassment is suffering, if some arsehole shouts at you in the street or says something obscene its fething shocking, but if my wife goes to the game store to get me a game and the bloke says "So is this for your boyfriend or something?" are we actually classing that as "suffering" as well?
It comes down to a difference in perspective, I think.
Spoiler:
For example, I was groped once by a thoroughly unattractive lady at a party. It didn't freak me out, and it didn't scar me psychologically in any way. Conversely, a female friend of mine was groped by an old man on public transport two weeks ago, and has suffered severe anxieties about taking the bus since.
What's the difference? Why does it bother her, but not me? The answer is perspective.
I, as a fairly broad man, am confident in myself. Not only am I reasonably certain that it most likely won't happen again to any substantial degree (leastways, not if the missus has anything to say about it), but I am secure that I could physically beat off any female assailant who appeared with the urge to shove her hands down my pants.
Your average woman does not have that security. The experience of having it done to you merely rams home extremely forcefully, the fact that you are at the absolute physical mercy of the majority of the male half of the population. It installs a level of fear and anxiety that I quite simply will never suffer. So when your average builder makes a wolfwhistle and crotch jerks in your direction on the street, you are suddenly struck again with the realisation that if one of these men gets it into their heads to do something to you, you cannot stop them. And what's more, the men who can do these things to you are everywhere.
Your average bloke will think to himself, 'Huh. Frigid cow. I'd be happy if women told me I was attractive every day!' But they fail to take into account that power dynamic. Their empathy only stretches as far as inserting themselves, with their own mentalities, assurances, and thought processes, into the woman's metaphorical shoes and situation.
The result is a failure to actually understand what it is the woman feels in that position. In a similar fashion, your average bloke simply does not comprehend what it is like to have implicitly sexist put downs hurled in our direction every ten minutes, because we don't tend to suffer from them ourselves.
Well thought out and carefully written, I agree.
There is so much effort to carefully say that women can equal or exceed many men in many things (which I believe).
But it does appear to be a rare thing where I can look at a woman and think "she could beat the out of me.". (It is rather exciting to come across though!).
Rude and forward communication could easily be perceived as potential rude and forward action.
The more public misbehavior goes unpunished, the more it may happen and stress/worry increases to those receiving unwanted attention.
I must say I was a little upset when my "goods" were grabbed by a man in a nun outfit, I had a wine glass in each hand (delivering to my wife) and I had to "suggest" the glasses could become contacts if I was not released. Fun times for anyone...
A revolution is an idea which has found its bayonets.
Napoleon Bonaparte
Or, to quote Margaret Atwood: "'Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them."
This is still generally true.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/03 21:40:13
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
mattyrm wrote: I dunno, I'm just saying you know.. if you want a movement to succeed you have to appeal to the masses
In order to appeal to the masses you must educate them. That's what videos like this are about.
mattyrm wrote: and so many people are needlessly critical of feminism because they don't fully understand it
Or because they are politically or philosophically opposed to women being equal in society to men, but don't want to admit it. Or because they buy in to the status quo, without thinking about it, as the status quo is comforting to them.
mattyrm wrote: I just don't think that most people that slag off "feminism" REALLY hate women do they?
Hate? No. But they have biases against women.
mattyrm wrote: ou and I have talked about this plenty of times, Iike loads of women dismiss feminism, and they don't dislike feminism,
So? We have scientific studies that have shown that women are just as biased as men-- biased, I should note, against other women. Given two identical resumes, one with a male name and the other female, most people will default to thinking the male resume is more qualified, and it's only if they really think about it that they'll realize that they're really the exact same. Same for interviews, as well. And there's no statistically significant difference between the percent of bias shown by male managers vs female managers against prospective female employees.
This sort of thing bleeds over both from and in to the overall culture, both caused by and causing itself, and only continually challenging it and forcing people to really think clearly about their biases will get it to slow down, never mind stop.
So do you entirely disagree with me then Mel? You don't think feminism has an image problem and the movement should just continue as it is?
You know more about the subject than me, I'm not attempting to claim otherwise, I just think that so many people of both sexes, seem to be critical of a movement that they really shouldn't be, and in my book I think that's something needs to change.
I don't know enough about it to formulate a strategy, I'm just saying that from my own interactions with people I think you definitely get along better with a carrot than a stick.
Saying "feth em they are ignorant" and cracking on as normal seems counterproductive to me.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Melissia wrote: Or, to quote Margaret Atwood: "'Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them."
This is still generally true.
Hey firearms are the great equalizer, and this is America. I'm just as scared of women as I am of men.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/03 21:44:56
We are arming Syrian rebels who support ISIS, who is fighting Iran, who is fighting Iraq who we also support against ISIS, while fighting Kurds who we support while they are fighting Syrian rebels.
The last couple of pages have been really heartening. I've been staying away from this topic on dakka because of the vitriol from the anti-feminist side, but I am really happy to see the discussion here.
The points about CVs and interviews are really horrible if you think about it. I dunno. I see this a lot in my work, and it depresses the crap out of me. I think guys struggle against this because it feels like an attack to them, but it really isn't.
In my school we have Prefects, and they are supposed to be model students. Now, most of the model students in this year's bunch are girls. But the management (who are, of course, all male, in a female dominated profession) felt it would be unfair to have the prefects be mostly female, so they included a couple of lazy boys in the mix. These boys have been doing a pretty awful job. It is quite amusing to see that decision made by a group of men in management, not once reflecting (apparently) on the irony that they did not apply the same standard of "fairness" to situations like their own where women were disadvantaged.
Life is full of this crap. My girlfriend found out recently she was being paid 15% less than men in her workplace doing exactly the same job. It was rectified, which is good, but why would that even happen in the first place? I gotta say I was floored by that one.
Many women have courageously spoken out about how they experience alienation and harassment in gaming. Despite this fact, too many male gamers dismiss the issue as “no big deal” and insist that there isn’t really a problem. One of the luxuries of being a member of a privileged group is that the benefits afforded to us often remain invisible to us. Working towards solutions requires that male gamers become aware of the ways in which we unconsciously benefit from sexism. We can’t work to fix something unless we first understand its effects. With that in mind the following is a checklist of some of the concrete benefits that male gamers automatically receive simply for being men.
1. I can choose to remain completely oblivious, or indifferent to the harassment that many women face in gaming spaces. 2. I am never told that video games or the surrounding culture is not intended for me because I am male. 3. I can publicly post my username, gamertag or contact information online without having to fear being stalked or sexually harassed because of my gender. 4. I will never be asked to “prove my gaming cred” simply because of my gender. 5. If I enthusiastically express my fondness for video games no one will automatically assume I’m faking my interest just to “get attention” from other gamers. 6. I can look at practically any gaming website, show, or magazine and see the voices of people of my own gender widely represented. 7. When I go to a gaming event or convention, I can be relatively certain that I won’t be harassed, groped, propositioned or catcalled by total strangers. 8. I will never be asked or expected to speak for all other gamers who share my gender. 9. I can be sure that my gaming performance (good or bad) won’t be attributed to or reflect on my gender as a whole. 10. My gaming ability will never be called into question based on unrelated natural biological functions. 11. I can be relatively sure my thoughts about video games won’t be dismissed or attacked based solely on my tone of voice, even if I speak in an aggressive, obnoxious, crude or flippant manner. 12. I can openly say that my favorite games are casual, odd, non-violent, artistic, or cute without fear that my opinions will reinforce a stereotype that “men are not real gamers.” 13. When purchasing most major video games in a store, chances are I will not be asked if (or assumed to be) buying it for a wife, daughter or girlfriend. 14. The vast majority of game studios, past and present, have been led and populated primarily by people of my own gender and as such most of their products have been specifically designed to cater to my demographic. 15. I can walk into any gaming store and see images of my gender widely represented as powerful heroes, dastardly villains and non-playable characters alike. 16. I will almost always have the option to play a character of my gender, as most protagonists or heroes will be male by default. 17. I do not have to carefully navigate my engagement with online communities or gaming spaces in order to avoid or mitigate the possibility of being harassed because of my gender. 18. I probably never think about hiding my real-life gender online through my gamer-name, my avatar choice, or by muting voice-chat, out of fear of harassment resulting from my being male. 19. When I enter an online game, I can be relatively sure I won’t be attacked or harassed when and if my real-life gender is made public 20. If I am trash-talked or verbally berated while playing online, it will not be because I am male nor will my gender be invoked as an insult. 21. While playing online with people I don’t know I won’t be interrogated about the size and shape of my real-life body parts, nor will I be pressured to share intimate details about my sex life for the pleasure of other players. 22. Complete strangers generally do not send me unsolicited images of their genitalia or demand to see me naked on the basis of being a male gamer. 23. In multiplayer games I can be pretty sure that conversations between other players will not focus on speculation about my “attractiveness” or “sexual availability” in real-life. 24. If I choose to point out sexism in gaming, my observations will not be seen as self-serving, and will therefore be perceived as more credible and worthy of respect than those of my female counterparts, even if they are saying the exact same thing. 25. Because it was created by a straight white man, this checklist will likely be taken more seriously than if it had been written by virtually any female gamer.
These benefits should not be reserved for men.
This list is not meant to suggest that male gamers are always treated well. Sometimes we are bullied or subjected to online nastiness, but it is not based on or because of our gender.
In order to make change first we need to acknowledge the problem, and then we must take responsibility for it as a community, so we can actively work together, with people of all genders, to dismantle the parts of gaming culture that perpetuate these imbalances.
All people, of all genders, must be treated with respect and dignity.
Together, we can make gaming gaming. Together, we will make gaming better.
Sounds like someone needs to get off the freaking nerdbox, get out of mom's basement, and get a job. Things were much simpler when it was just pinball. Anyone could play it, and everyone got harassed. EDIT: Although I don't understand about half of it, I kind of agree with it, just referencing when I sat in and provided useful advice to the Boy whilst he did battle online with many a Newb.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/03 22:01:56
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
mattyrm wrote: So do you entirely disagree with me then Mel?
I never said I did. Whether or not change needs to occur within feminism as a movement isn't something my post discussed.
To be honest, I don't like the idea of feminism with some kind of central command with some head feminist telling everyone else what to do. To me, that goes against what feminism is meant to be in the first place. So I don't really have a good answer.
mattyrm wrote: Saying "feth em they are ignorant" and cracking on as normal seems counterproductive to me.
Most feminists try not to do this. But that doesn't mean it isn't really damned tempting after the thousandth time.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/12/03 21:52:05
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
Da Boss wrote: The last couple of pages have been really heartening. I've been staying away from this topic on dakka because of the vitriol from the anti-feminist side, but I am really happy to see the discussion here.
The points about CVs and interviews are really horrible if you think about it. I dunno. I see this a lot in my work, and it depresses the crap out of me. I think guys struggle against this because it feels like an attack to them, but it really isn't.
In my school we have Prefects, and they are supposed to be model students. Now, most of the model students in this year's bunch are girls. But the management (who are, of course, all male, in a female dominated profession) felt it would be unfair to have the prefects be mostly female, so they included a couple of lazy boys in the mix. These boys have been doing a pretty awful job. It is quite amusing to see that decision made by a group of men in management, not once reflecting (apparently) on the irony that they did not apply the same standard of "fairness" to situations like their own where women were disadvantaged.
Life is full of this crap. My girlfriend found out recently she was being paid 15% less than men in her workplace doing exactly the same job. It was rectified, which is good, but why would that even happen in the first place? I gotta say I was floored by that one.
Yeah that's absolutely fething ridiculous, I don't even see how that can happen in this day and age. Like you are setting up a new employees account and you go "Oh hang on I thought that said John not Jean, knock a few grand a year off"?
Really absurd. Is that in Germany? I thought the EU was all over that gak!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/03 21:54:54
We are arming Syrian rebels who support ISIS, who is fighting Iran, who is fighting Iraq who we also support against ISIS, while fighting Kurds who we support while they are fighting Syrian rebels.
Melissia wrote: The difficulty of stopping a horrible thing is no reason to let it continue.
This is true.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
mattyrm wrote: Hey firearms are the great equalizer, and this is America. I'm just as scared of women as I am of men.
I dunno about that! Frankly I'm a bit more scared of women when they are pointing guns. I dunno about you but as a Texan I've seen my mom and dad shoot and let's just say it isn't the male that's the best shot
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/03 22:12:21
mattyrm wrote: I dunno, I'm just saying you know.. if you want a movement to succeed you have to appeal to the masses
In order to appeal to the masses you must educate them. That's what videos like this are about.
mattyrm wrote: and so many people are needlessly critical of feminism because they don't fully understand it
Or because they are politically or philosophically opposed to women being equal in society to men, but don't want to admit it. Or because they buy in to the status quo, without thinking about it, as the status quo is comforting to them.
mattyrm wrote: I just don't think that most people that slag off "feminism" REALLY hate women do they?
Hate? No. But they have biases against women.
mattyrm wrote: ou and I have talked about this plenty of times, Iike loads of women dismiss feminism, and they don't dislike feminism,
So? We have scientific studies that have shown that women are just as biased as men-- biased, I should note, against other women. Given two identical resumes, one with a male name and the other female, most people will default to thinking the male resume is more qualified, and it's only if they really think about it that they'll realize that they're really the exact same. Same for interviews, as well. And there's no statistically significant difference between the percent of bias shown by male managers vs female managers against prospective female employees.
This sort of thing bleeds over both from and in to the overall culture, both caused by and causing itself, and only continually challenging it and forcing people to really think clearly about their biases will get it to slow down, never mind stop.
So do you entirely disagree with me then Mel? You don't think feminism has an image problem and the movement should just continue as it is? ...
...
IDK about Melissia but in my view as a middle-aged, middle-class, white man, feminism has an image problem among anti-feminist juvenile male white video game players. I don't see why that is something feminists should deign to address.
IDK about Melissia but in my view as a middle-aged, middle-class, white man, feminism has an image problem among anti-feminist juvenile male white video game players. I don't see why that is something feminists should deign to address.
Well self proclaimed feminists haven't been representing feminism that well. Even though some of them are sexists and racists.
The last couple of pages have been really heartening. I've been staying away from this topic on dakka because of the vitriol from the anti-feminist side, but I am really happy to see the discussion here.
Some of them aren't really feminists they don't follow any of the theology or principals of any of the feminist thinkers and follow the marxist ideas.
Personally I do not find certain parts of that agenda in line with general Feminist Ideal.
I have seen some really stupid ideals.
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
That's just infuriating. I mean, just look at the petition these three women submitted. It's clear that they've never even seen the game, let alone played it. Encourages violence against women? Rewards players with "health points" for killing women? This is worse than when Anita tried to pretend that the aim of Hitman was to kill and mutilate the corpses of sex workers.
You honestly are trying to claim that someone isn't REALLY a feminist unless they believe in Marxism?
What the hell, Asherian Command? If you have a point, your convoluted grammatical mess of a post failed to make it.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/12/03 23:39:50
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
CthuluIsSpy wrote: I read that as the opposite - they aren't following feminism, they are following marxism.
That doesn't even make any damn sense either!
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
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