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and an awful general

How does 12 successful campaigns the size of the Black Crusades make someone an awful general?

 Psienesis wrote:

and an awful general

How does 12 successful campaigns the size of the Black Crusades make someone an awful general?

It's probably because they've only recently gone into this much detail about the Black Crusades so everyone just assumed the objective of each Black Crusade was to seize Terra. I guess...

As much as I will argue that the 13th Black Crusade of the Eye of Terror campaign was a Chaos victory, I will contend that the 12th Black Crusade (aka the Gothic War detailed in BFG) was a Chaos failure.

Why?

Because Abaddon had launched that campaign to take the 6 Blackstone Fortresses. He managed to capture 3, and in unison those 3 could make a star go nova. However he was then was driven off, and had to abandon 1 of them, and then the remaining ones in Imperial hands self destructed. So after years of war and the investment of many fleets, Abaddon came out with only 1/3 of his original objectives. While that may not be a total failure, it certainly represents poor return for the time and effort.

Yea but I think they retconned a lot of the fluff. They released a fluff supplement specifically about the Black Legion. I didn't really read too much of it though so I'm not sure about the details. This is what I'm talking about: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Black_Legion_-_A_Codex:_Chaos_Space_Marines_Supplement

Seriously guys, the only warmaster worth a damn was Varan.
First, he wasn't some gene modified spacemarine mutant freak but a human mutant freak. That counts for a lot cause even the average chaos heretic secretly wishes to relate to his imperious leader, to feel the special connection, the bound that can only exist between humans.
Second the good warmaster had some realy nice psychic abilities, probably some of the most powerful in the fluff (probably comming from his awesome beard).
Third he actualy knew that while butchering everyone and everything in sight while laughing maniacly is good and healthy, it is far more profitable in the long term to reach out to your conquered subjects and make them your own, hearts and minds guys!
So unless Abaddon or Huron or Talos or any of these other chaosmarine freaks quickly grow an even more awesome beard and get some actual leadership skills (no, casualy beheading your faithful servants cause the coffee they brought wasn't quite hot enough doesn't count) which go beyond the usual terror inspired loyalty and free for all violence, only glorious Varan can lead the hosts of Chaos.

KingDeath wrote:
Seriously guys, the only warmaster worth a damn was Varan.
First, he wasn't some gene modified spacemarine mutant freak but a human mutant freak. That counts for a lot cause even the average chaos heretic secretly wishes to relate to his imperious leader, to feel the special connection, the bound that can only exist between humans.
Second the good warmaster had some realy nice psychic abilities, probably some of the most powerful in the fluff (probably comming from his awesome beard).
Third he actualy knew that while butchering everyone and everything in sight while laughing maniacly is good and healthy, it is far more profitable in the long term to reach out to your conquered subjects and make them your own, hearts and minds guys!
So unless Abaddon or Huron or Talos or any of these other chaosmarine freaks quickly grow an even more awesome beard and get some actual leadership skills (no, casualy beheading your faithful servants cause the coffee they brought wasn't quite hot enough doesn't count) which go beyond the usual terror inspired loyalty and free for all violence, only glorious Varan can lead the hosts of Chaos.

What books feature him?

 EmpNortonII wrote:

KingDeath wrote:
Seriously guys, the only warmaster worth a damn was Varan.
First, he wasn't some gene modified spacemarine mutant freak but a human mutant freak. That counts for a lot cause even the average chaos heretic secretly wishes to relate to his imperious leader, to feel the special connection, the bound that can only exist between humans.
Second the good warmaster had some realy nice psychic abilities, probably some of the most powerful in the fluff (probably comming from his awesome beard).
Third he actualy knew that while butchering everyone and everything in sight while laughing maniacly is good and healthy, it is far more profitable in the long term to reach out to your conquered subjects and make them your own, hearts and minds guys!
So unless Abaddon or Huron or Talos or any of these other chaosmarine freaks quickly grow an even more awesome beard and get some actual leadership skills (no, casualy beheading your faithful servants cause the coffee they brought wasn't quite hot enough doesn't count) which go beyond the usual terror inspired loyalty and free for all violence, only glorious Varan can lead the hosts of Chaos.

What books feature him?

Cain's Last Stand.

 EmpNortonII wrote:

KingDeath wrote:
Seriously guys, the only warmaster worth a damn was Varan.
First, he wasn't some gene modified spacemarine mutant freak but a human mutant freak. That counts for a lot cause even the average chaos heretic secretly wishes to relate to his imperious leader, to feel the special connection, the bound that can only exist between humans.
Second the good warmaster had some realy nice psychic abilities, probably some of the most powerful in the fluff (probably comming from his awesome beard).
Third he actualy knew that while butchering everyone and everything in sight while laughing maniacly is good and healthy, it is far more profitable in the long term to reach out to your conquered subjects and make them your own, hearts and minds guys!
So unless Abaddon or Huron or Talos or any of these other chaosmarine freaks quickly grow an even more awesome beard and get some actual leadership skills (no, casualy beheading your faithful servants cause the coffee they brought wasn't quite hot enough doesn't count) which go beyond the usual terror inspired loyalty and free for all violence, only glorious Varan can lead the hosts of Chaos.

What books feature him?

Except that any CSM would have no wish to follow him and any talented Psyker such as a Thousand Son's Sorceror or Daemon Prince would tear him apart with ease. Also, CSM leadership is more Orkish than civilised. Whoever is biggest and strongest leads because the others are too gak-scared to defy him. So when scrub#117 brings cold coffee, #118 make sure it burns the skin clean off his face. And when his highly respected and feared subordinate, Terminator Lord Bob of the John Smith No Names, feths up bad and spends 1000 years trapped in the belly of a Great Unclean One, Commander Simon makes sure he goes above and beyond the call of duty (unless above and beyond feths the plan, in which case Lord Billy does as he's told).

Sevastus Kranon! LOL

The more I think about, the more I think that Shon'tu would be the best bet having accomplished feats arguably comparable to Abbadon with fewer men at his disposal (like using nid bioship/infested spacehulk to launch an assault on terra which almost worked if the navigator didn't try and pull a fast one but still resulted in massive amount of deaths including the then chapter master of the Imperial Fists, and is currently laying siege to the Phalanx with Be'lakor assisting and only a company of Imperial Fists and the Legion of the Damned are in the way).

And he has the benefit of truly being a veteran of the long war as he was present during Horus's siege of terra.

I feel like Abbadon has been doing you guys a pretty good job so far, lets just stick with him and see how he does next time around?