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2014/12/05 14:34:40
Subject: Why did you stop playing 40K/Games Workshop?
If you go way back to before 7th ed, you'd see my posts as very pro GW. But when 7th hit and it doubled down on everything I didn't find enjoyable, it was like a floodgate and all of the criticisms I heard about GW made sense.
Is GW evil? No, they're just incompetent.
Is 40k a singularity of suckitude that no fun can escape from? No. It can be a blast in the right group of like-minded people.
Would I go back if GW fixed their mess? Maybe. Plastic Sisters would swing that closer to a 'yes.' But I'm not sure. Like the Star Wars prequels, much of the magic is gone from 40k for me. I'm still curious and I would like to see GW turn around.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/05 14:35:11
Also, check out my history blog: Minimum Wage Historian, a fun place to check out history that often falls between the couch cushions.
2014/12/05 14:35:46
Subject: Re:Why did you stop playing 40K/Games Workshop?
Blacksails wrote: I'm curious if the same people who complain about these recurring threads equally complain about the recurring threads about which primarch is the best, or which chapter is the best, or 'hey I'm new, which army should I start'.
Its a forum. Threads happen. No one needs to justify their posting habits or behaviours to anyone else.
Ugh, I hate those type of threads so I just avoid them entirely (though I admit I got a good chuckle out of the one that titled itself knowingly as "another stupid 'who would win?' " )
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/05 14:38:27
2014/12/05 14:39:09
Subject: Re:Why did you stop playing 40K/Games Workshop?
Trying to delve into my "haters gonna hate" attitude:
1) Too much messing around to get a close game in (that is what I want, a good nail biting scrap not utterly destroy or get destroyed).
The army selection rules are largely to blame (and points cost for "balance" is largely a joke).
2) Found a couple other games that are easy to get into and get the challenge I want. (X-wing, Warmachine, Battletech - Alphastrike, Robotech)
3) It may only be the roll of the dice but the people who play my newly favored games appear more pleasant than my 40k opponents.
4) 40k has not been firing any excitement for me, rules or models have been "meh" the last year... maybe it is just me.
I can work with the rules, I have seen better in the past but it is what I am used to with a new twist (meh!).
5) GW in the past made a "culture" of gaming 40k, all kinds of avenues of interaction an engagement.
Now the expectation is that they produce models, throw some rules/stats out with them and expect us to quietly buy.
The "passive consumerism" does not make the environment they want for a "high-end" product for the customer to be "delighted" and "excited" about.
This is my best stab at my reasoning for turning away from 40k for the first time since Rogue Trader: I always had SOMETHING happening in 40k, not so much now.
A revolution is an idea which has found its bayonets.
Napoleon Bonaparte
2014/12/05 15:05:55
Subject: Why did you stop playing 40K/Games Workshop?
Frankly I believe that what we're all seeing right now is a natural progression away from GW being the only game around to it having to compete on a more local scale with smaller, fresher games. Used to be that if you grew tired of playing 40k your options were to play a completely different type of game or just stick it out. Whereas now you have the option to try different games that can be just as much fun or more depending on the person. However, the fact is that GW is still the industry leader for tabletop games and, as such, is going to draw a lot of positive and negative attention from current, former, and potential players.
The reason that people get annoyed with these particular threads, however, is that they feel like people who used to play GW are looking for reasons to justify their departure, which they don't really need to do, especially in a forum dedicated to the enjoyment of the game. In doing so, they both dampen enthusiasm and become slightly insulting to people who do still play, even if that's not the intention. When someone says that they find the rules atrocious, or the company incompetent, or for whatever reason they just couldn't bare to continue playing 40k, they make it sound like those who don't believe there is a problem are somehow fooling themselves. Again, this may not be the intent, but it can be the perception.
The fact is that everyone who left the game has, at some point, decided it simply wasn't worth it to keep playing. Thanks to the wide variety of other games available, it's a lot easier to make that decision. There's nothing wrong with that, people make similar decisions every minute of every day, but ex-40k players do have a tendency to beat the drum rather often and loudly on why they left and why their new game is so much better, so you'll have to forgive people who still are fans of the game from pushing back on threads like this, especially in dedicated 40k forums.
2014/12/05 15:06:36
Subject: Why did you stop playing 40K/Games Workshop?
lobbywatson wrote: So all the people in this thread that "dumped" 40k I find it rather odd you "stalk your ex" this way. I wish GW could file restraining orders against you.
Honestly you could have put this in the "general discussion" area but you instead decided to troll the "40k general discussion" area. Got it....
So all the people that "enjoy" 40k I find it rather odd you "stalk your GW haters" this way. Dakkadakka could file a restraining order against you.
Honestly yoi could have "not posted in this thread" but instead decided to troll the "thread specifically meant for people to talk about reasons they have left or may leave".
Got it.
Any more insights to share? We'd all be thrilled to hear you whine about a thread you could have, I dunno, maybe ignored. We've to hear you bitch about people bitching, that wouldn't be ironic at all and would be super on topic and productive.
Azrael stalks me... Lol
Yep, must be it, and not that being on the largest wargaming forum in the world talking about the largest (currently) wargame in the world regularly will mean we regularly cross paths.
Or do you think that everyone at the same school as you is stalking you?
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
lobbywatson wrote: So all the people in this thread that "dumped" 40k I find it rather odd you "stalk your ex" this way. I wish GW could file restraining orders against you.
Honestly you could have put this in the "general discussion" area but you instead decided to troll the "40k general discussion" area. Got it....
So all the people that "enjoy" 40k I find it rather odd you "stalk your GW haters" this way. Dakkadakka could file a restraining order against you.
Honestly yoi could have "not posted in this thread" but instead decided to troll the "thread specifically meant for people to talk about reasons they have left or may leave".
Got it.
Any more insights to share? We'd all be thrilled to hear you whine about a thread you could have, I dunno, maybe ignored. We've to hear you bitch about people bitching, that wouldn't be ironic at all and would be super on topic and productive.
Azrael stalks me... Lol
Yep, must be it, and not that being on the largest wargaming forum in the world talking about the largest (currently) wargame in the world regularly will mean we regularly cross paths.
Or do you think that everyone at the same school as you is stalking you?
You call for me by name all the time. It's ok buddy I love you too.
" $@#& YOU! There are 3 things I want in a guy: Tall, Handsome, and plays Dark Eldar!"-every woman since
November 2010
2014/12/05 15:14:09
Subject: Why did you stop playing 40K/Games Workshop?
Musashi363 wrote: Personally, I want to see Runic answer MWHistorian's questions. He asked you first.
And? In any case I´m shocked, seeing as you two know eachother irl. If you look closely you can also see I partially answered his question already, and if you read the forums you can also perceive I get along fine with 98% of the other users aside from these few individuals I´ve self appointedly trademarked The Four Horsemen.
I must´ve gotten so deep under your skin at some point I must be coming out of the other side of your arm, since you follow me around acting the way you do.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/12/05 15:24:31
Musashi363 wrote: Personally, I want to see Runic answer MWHistorian's questions. He asked you first.
And? In any case I´m shocked, seeing as you two know eachother irl. If you look closely you can also see I partially answered his question already, and if you read the forums you can also perceive I get along fine with 98% of the other users aside from these few individuals I´ve self appointedly trademarked The Four Horsemen.
Am I Ric Flair?
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/05 15:23:01
Games Workshop Delenda Est.
Users on ignore- 53.
If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them.
2014/12/05 15:21:37
Subject: Re:Why did you stop playing 40K/Games Workshop?
Blacksails wrote: So Azrael is Death, I'm War, who's going to be Famine and Conquest?
I´m thinking Grimtuff is Famine. But you´re not a Horseman Blacksails. You don´t fit the quota, which I´m sure you don´t want to fit in anyway. I understand you might be disappointed because hey, who doesn´t like horses.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/05 15:28:13
You call for me by name all the time. It's ok buddy I love you too.
Nope, it's just in the wonderful venn diagram of "daft comments posted in threads of this type" and "posts by DMB" tend to have a massive overlap.
You've become predictable darling.
He has, even all the ways he breaks forum rules.
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
Okay, lets get away from the whole "Four Horsemen of the GW-pocalypse" thing- it's just meant to dehumanize posters and their arguments, and it does nothing for the conversation. I could think of the reverse-side of these Horsemen, but all that does it flame-bait other posters (unnecessary) and gets further away from the topic at hand.
2014/12/05 15:32:59
Subject: Re:Why did you stop playing 40K/Games Workshop?
Blacksails wrote: So Azrael is Death, I'm War, who's going to be Famine and Conquest?
I´m thinking Grimtuff is Famine. But you´re not a Horseman Blacksails. You don´t fit the quota, which I´m sure you don´t want to fit in anyway. I understand you might be disappointed because hey, who doesn´t like horses.
You mean "fit the criteria" Fit the quota doesn't really make sense.
I don't either, BTW, as I still play, but that doesn't seem to be relevant?
Oh @Blacksails, don't forget Explosive Diarrhoea on Binky the Donkey!
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
Accolade wrote: Okay, lets get away from the whole "Four Horsemen of the GW-pocalypse" thing- it's just meant to dehumanize posters and their arguments, and it does nothing for the conversation. I could think of the reverse-side of these Horsemen, but all that does it flame-bait other posters (unnecessary) and gets further away from the topic at hand.
Admittedly offtopic, but we were just joking around. I think.
Azreal13 wrote: You mean "fit the criteria" Fit the quota doesn't really make sense.
I don't either, BTW, as I still play, but that doesn't seem to be relevant?
Oh @Blacksails, don't forget Explosive Diarrhoea on Binky the Donkey!
I wonder what kind of a person one needs to be to actually continously point out spelling mistakes to someone who isn´t a native English speaker. Humour me anyways, speak some Finnish.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/05 15:35:38
Accolade wrote: Okay, lets get away from the whole "Four Horsemen of the GW-pocalypse" thing- it's just meant to dehumanize posters and their arguments, and it does nothing for the conversation. I could think of the reverse-side of these Horsemen, but all that does it flame-bait other posters (unnecessary) and gets further away from the topic at hand.
Admittedly offtopic, but we were just joking around. I think.
No, you were not.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/05 15:35:55
Games Workshop Delenda Est.
Users on ignore- 53.
If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them.
2014/12/05 15:37:55
Subject: Re:Why did you stop playing 40K/Games Workshop?
Accolade wrote: Okay, lets get away from the whole "Four Horsemen of the GW-pocalypse" thing- it's just meant to dehumanize posters and their arguments, and it does nothing for the conversation. I could think of the reverse-side of these Horsemen, but all that does it flame-bait other posters (unnecessary) and gets further away from the topic at hand.
Admittedly offtopic, but we were just joking around. I think.
I'd actually argue you tried to do exactly what Accolade suggested, consciously or not, but several posters took ownership of it and made it a joke and now the whole concept is, quite rightly, a source of comedy.
It is interesting to see the number of, shall we say, GW advocates, who felt compelled to enter a thread with a completely unambiguous title in order to tell other users their opinions were wrong and to GTFO of 40K topics if they didn't play though.
Good show guys!
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
Azreal13 wrote: I'd actually argue you tried to do exactly what Accolade suggested, consciously or not, but several posters took ownership of it and made it a joke and now the whole concept is, quite rightly, a source of comedy.
Now he even knows what people think better than they do.
Azreal13 wrote: You mean "fit the criteria" Fit the quota doesn't really make sense.
I don't either, BTW, as I still play, but that doesn't seem to be relevant?
Oh @Blacksails, don't forget Explosive Diarrhoea on Binky the Donkey!
I wonder what kind of a person one needs to be to actually continously point out spelling mistakes to someone who isn´t a native English speaker. Humour me anyways, speak some Finnish.
Theres a world of difference between misspelling a word and using the wrong word entirely, especially when that word, if not exactly a logical choice, could work in the context it was used.
My Finnish is lousy, which is why I don't hang out in Finnish speaking message boards.
Azreal13 wrote: I'd actually argue you tried to do exactly what Accolade suggested, consciously or not, but several posters took ownership of it and made it a joke and now the whole concept is, quite rightly, a source of comedy.
Now he even knows what people think better than they do.
Just an opinion, not an absolute statement, which is why I said "I'd actually argue"
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/05 15:40:55
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
Azreal13 wrote: You mean "fit the criteria" Fit the quota doesn't really make sense.
I don't either, BTW, as I still play, but that doesn't seem to be relevant?
Oh @Blacksails, don't forget Explosive Diarrhoea on Binky the Donkey!
I wonder what kind of a person one needs to be to actually continously point out spelling mistakes to someone who isn´t a native English speaker. Humour me anyways, speak some Finnish.
Theres a world of difference between misspelling a word and using the wrong word entirely, especially when that word, if not exactly a logical choice, could work in the context it was used.
My Finnish is lousy, which is why I don't hang out in Finnish speaking message boards.
Azreal13 wrote: I'd actually argue you tried to do exactly what Accolade suggested, consciously or not, but several posters took ownership of it and made it a joke and now the whole concept is, quite rightly, a source of comedy.
Now he even knows what people think better than they do.
Just an opinion, not an absolute statement, which is why I said "I'd actually argue"
)
Mordian Iron Guard - Major Overhaul in Progress 
