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Redbad wrote: One of them did grab me, but I did not kick him, I offered them my bag and my receipt. After checking, they noticed that only one item got rang up, but I had two. So I told them to go ask the cashier if they didn't believe me about the special.
They're not supposed to grab. Even in the states (where it's illegal to be black), you can sue for assault if a mall cop touches you.
Where?
In most US jurisdictions they can physically detain you as long as it is not for an 'unreasonable' amount of time. They can put their hands on you and block your path as long as you have broken an actual law. They cannot arrest you but they can detain you until police arrive. Some places may even handcuff you legally, especially depending on the 'response' of the person. The more violent the person is, the higher level of response they may use. As long as they are not the one escalating, they are going to be within their rights. If you are trying to evade and leave the premises they CAN grab you. If you begin being violent, they CAN restrain you. If you begin putting others at risk they CAN mace you and handcuff you.
It is called the Use of force continuum.
If you think you can actually 'sue' private security for touching you if they are physically detaining you with reasonable evidence that you have committed a crime, you are going to have a really rude awakening.
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1. Make the store and the employee famous on Facebook, Twitter and Dakka.
2. Don't shop there.
3.) Contact GW and request an apology (not from GW) but the store.
HOWEVER: You haven't mentioned names... so is your story 100% accurate? It seems like there could be some details left out. And did I read you assaulted (kicked) a security guard? That could get some one of your ...ahem... killed in the States if you did that to a cop.
Whoever said "Get a lawyer" has obviously never paid for one. If you're looking at criminal charges for shoplifting, then yes get a lawyer. Otherwise a letter writing campaign will likely get you a new stormraven from GW and an apology from the store. Avoid hyperbole. Talk about how you were hurt and scared etc. Stamps are cheap.... lawyers are $$$$$. If you get bent out of shape for being called names.... well, that's a bummer.
Write some letters. Angry posts. Get it out of your system. Move on. Roll dice.
I fell victim to the troll didn't I? Sorry everyone.... Nevermind I'm worse than John Snow....
Redbad wrote: I definitely think there was some kind of a translation error going on here.
This is insane.
Maybe instead of kicking the guard, try to explain what happened, or what you thought happened.
If I've learned anythimg from these types of misunderstandings, if you stay calm, as long as the guards aren't playing super-cop, you won't have any problems.
I had a similar thing happen to me at a book store one time, there was a promotional buy one get one free. So I bought my book, and selected another book of equal value, checked out, and walked out the door. As I walked out the siren went off, and there were guards all around me within seconds.
One of them did grab me, but I did not kick him, I offered them my bag and my receipt. After checking, they noticed that only one item got rang up, but I had two. So I told them to go ask the cashier if they didn't believe me about the special.
I was clear in minutes. No problems.
I think in your case there was a miscommunication, a bad word was said, and things got heated.
Maybe it seems like he tried to screw you, but I don't think anybody is that much of a prick...especially in a scenario in a mall like this.
Thanks
Austin
I believe you were in error here. Not a lot, but...
1. Even free books are rung up and on the receipt. This is to cover returns (of either book) and keep inventory correct.
2. Even free books will be demagnetized when the employee zaps your purchase, if they are all handled together.
It sounds like you just grabbed a book off a table and held onto it since it was free instead of having the clerk ring it up, disable the security tag and zero out the price. Not a big problem, but an avoidable one.
MeanGreenStompa wrote: Being somewhat concerned by the contents of the OP's post, I called in Senator Vreenak, Dakka's resident expert.
Perhaps. The only thing that makes me think this could be true is a time I was in Paris, and stopped in at one of the many bookstores in the Latin Quarter to look at graphic novels.
A guy got into an argument with the person minding the counter. Things went from a simple conversation to insanely heated yelling match in the space of 2 minutes. The guy left, came back in again screaming 2 minutes later, and repeated this a few times until the guy minding the shop handed him a package. Then he left.
I think the French have their own way of settling disputes over products and services, and it's something that would get you arrested in the US. It's possible the OP was just trying for a hat trick with a basketball.
Haha to the OP that was one sick bastard... I would take legal Action against him to be honest.. There are LAWs that he has broken.. trying to falsely accuse you of a crime you did not commit.. I think you could sue him in civil court for something like that...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/09 17:30:52
Thanks for your helpfull replies so far.
A few things to keep in mind.
In france, wether you are a Security Guy or a normal civilian you have no right to grab someone or Touch him.
You have the right to do so when he is trying to Run away.
I was not running i immidiately stopped when the guards came for me.
I told them Not to Touch me but they did, so im absolutly right when i defend myself by my own possibilities.
When someone tries to grab you you are allowed to use physical Actionfilm that dont harm him in a Way he has to expect ongoing Handicaps.
2.
I once had a valkyrie where the flying base was missing.
The store owner gave me a new one because he told me that gw is always Sending out a whole new kit.
I thought this would again be the Case so i didnt brought the Kit and just asked for canopy.
3.
The handyshop in Front of the store has some Video cameras showing also the gamestore.
It is clearly to be Seen That im Not stealing, Police checked the videos.
4. the employee has some known criminal records for racist behaviour.
5. thinks in france quicklY Heat up.
6.
Store owner told me i dont have to enter his store again, dont know why.
Do not kill. Do not rape. Do not steal. These are principles which every man of every faith can embrace.
For if you do, one day you will look behind you and you will see us And on that day, you will reap it,
and we will send you to whatever god you wish.
winterwind85 wrote: Thanks for your helpfull replies so far. A few things to keep in mind.
Spoiler:
In france, wether you are a Security Guy or a normal civilian you have no right to grab someone or Touch him. You have the right to do so when he is trying to Run away. I was not running i immidiately stopped when the guards came for me. I told them Not to Touch me but they did, so im absolutly right when i defend myself by my own possibilities. When someone tries to grab you you are allowed to use physical Actionfilm that dont harm him in a Way he has to expect ongoing Handicaps.
2. I once had a valkyrie where the flying base was missing. The store owner gave me a new one because he told me that gw is always Sending out a whole new kit. I thought this would again be the Case so i didnt brought the Kit and just asked for canopy.
3. The handyshop in Front of the store has some Video cameras showing also the gamestore. It is clearly to be Seen That im Not stealing, Police checked the videos. 4. the employee has some known criminal records for racist behaviour.
5. thinks in france quicklY Heat up. 6. Store owner told me i dont have to enter his store again, dont know why.
Okay, so can you explain what your endgame is? What is your ultimate goal?
Are you looking to get a proper replacement from GW?
Are you looking for advice about how to deal with the store going forward?
The most important thing is to decide what you want to achieve.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/09 17:45:52
Kirasu: Have we fallen so far that we are excited that GW is giving us the opportunity to spend 58$ for JUST the rules? Surprised it's not "Dataslate: Assault Phase"
AlexHolker: "The power loader is a forklift. The public doesn't complain about a forklift not having frontal armour protecting the crew compartment because the only enemy it is designed to face is the OHSA violation."
AlexHolker: "Allow me to put it this way: Paramount is Skynet, reboots are termination attempts, and your childhood is John Connor."
The Fact that you are a german did probably not help your situation hehe.. He probably held a grudge against you for WW2.. and decided it wast time for a payback?... Same as you germans really dont like English people hehe.. Im very quick to say that I am from sweden when I am in Germany, the service you get goes up 100% as soon as they know you are from northen europe, hehe..
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/12/09 17:44:42
Redbad wrote: I definitely think there was some kind of a translation error going on here.
This is insane.
Maybe instead of kicking the guard, try to explain what happened, or what you thought happened.
If I've learned anythimg from these types of misunderstandings, if you stay calm, as long as the guards aren't playing super-cop, you won't have any problems.
I had a similar thing happen to me at a book store one time, there was a promotional buy one get one free. So I bought my book, and selected another book of equal value, checked out, and walked out the door. As I walked out the siren went off, and there were guards all around me within seconds.
One of them did grab me, but I did not kick him, I offered them my bag and my receipt. After checking, they noticed that only one item got rang up, but I had two. So I told them to go ask the cashier if they didn't believe me about the special.
I was clear in minutes. No problems.
I think in your case there was a miscommunication, a bad word was said, and things got heated.
Maybe it seems like he tried to screw you, but I don't think anybody is that much of a prick...especially in a scenario in a mall like this.
Thanks
Austin
I believe you were in error here. Not a lot, but...
1. Even free books are rung up and on the receipt. This is to cover returns (of either book) and keep inventory correct.
2. Even free books will be demagnetized when the employee zaps your purchase, if they are all handled together.
It sounds like you just grabbed a book off a table and held onto it since it was free instead of having the clerk ring it up, disable the security tag and zero out the price. Not a big problem, but an avoidable one.
Pretty much what happened, although the cashier told me I was clear, and not to worry about it... so there was an error on her side as well
Thanks
Austin
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zlayer77 wrote: The Fact that you are a german did probably not help your situation hehe.. He probably held a grudge against you for WW2.. and decided it wast time for a payback?... Same as you germans really dont like English people hehe.. Im very quick to say that I am from sweden when I am in Germany, the service you get goes up 100% as soon as they know you are from northen europe, hehe..
While I am pleased that my compatriots seem to treat you the way they should treat everyone (and I know that a lot of them really do not), I cannot help but notice that your tiny little post is full of dumb (and even on that level: wrong) generalizations. You do great injustice to the French, German and English (as well as Welsh, Scots and Northern Irish).
A German myself, who has lived several years in Belgium and France, had the pleasure to deal with British colleagues & clients on a daily base (among many other nationalities and cultures) and who now lives close to a city that is regularly overrun by - mostly very nice - Swedes and Norvegians looking to buy hectolitres of booze and smuggle it back to their lovely, cold little countries, I give you one good advise: go out more often and learn about other people, instead of showing your ignorance on the internet.
(And no, I do not think those binge-on-a-boat trips are the right means of broadening your horizon... )
BTW, the OP already stated that he was Israelian, even if his phone seems to have German auto-correction.
2) Get copies of the charges against you, if filed.
3) Find out if this is the owner, or some idiot employee.
....and lo!.....The Age of Sigmar came to an end when Saint Veetock and his hamster legions smote the false Sigmar and destroyed the bubbleverse and lead the true believers back to the Old World.
Redbad wrote: One of them did grab me, but I did not kick him, I offered them my bag and my receipt. After checking, they noticed that only one item got rang up, but I had two. So I told them to go ask the cashier if they didn't believe me about the special.
They're not supposed to grab. Even in the states (where it's illegal to be black), you can sue for assault if a mall cop touches you.
That's not true at all. The laws on this vary from state to state. In Alabama you can detain someone for a misdemeanor or felony as long as you are ASRB licensed and contracted by the owner of the property where you detain the suspect. If they resist, you have the same use of force pyramid that law enforcement has. If they assault you, you can spray them with OC or taze them. If they continue to resist or assault, you can use a baton or fist strikes. If they have a deadly weapon, you can respond with deadly force. I'm a government contractor doing armed patrols and fugitive recovery in housing projects but the same laws would apply to a mall cop, we all work under the same ASRB rules. OP is lucky he didn't kick someone like me, he would've gone to the hospital and then jail.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/12 03:59:03
GW phone line is very good at replacing parts from a missing kit.
despite the cost we pay for these models ultimately they are quite cheap to produce once the molds are done, they really do not mind sending you a replacement bit that was not in a kit at their own loss through the mail.
call them, they will ask for some product info from the box, and your good.
regarding your incident.
Laws are different in different states, regardless of that you committed assault by kicking the person. Often people have 1-3 years to press charges in the matter of assault depending on state. after that time regardless of evidence they cannot...
Some states grabbing someone is not considered assault, especially if they declared you were attempting to steal something.
Your story ends in what I would consider a realistic episode that has escalated beyond where it should be, but the begining of your story seems off. You make the story employee out to be very aggro while you are very passive and calm, and they continue to be irrate while you remain calm in your version. If that is the case, which it might be, you could be okay legal wise. You need a lawyer, and you need for your lawyer to subpoena copies of video surveillance from the store, and possibly the mall itself depending on where the physical part of the altercation took place.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/12 14:47:58
blaktoof wrote: GW phone line is very good at replacing parts from a missing kit.
despite the cost we pay for these models ultimately they are quite cheap to produce once the molds are done, they really do not mind sending you a replacement bit that was not in a kit at their own loss through the mail.
call them, they will ask for some product info from the box, and your good.
It is also probably cheaper for GW to pay to send you a replacement unit as opposed to either breaking out an individual sprue, or paying to receive the defective product, process it, etc.
Mostly what GW wants to know is where and when the product was manufactured and packed so they can track down the error. GW's customer service has always been very good, but then again, I absolutely expect customer service for a premium-priced product to be very good.
Kirasu: Have we fallen so far that we are excited that GW is giving us the opportunity to spend 58$ for JUST the rules? Surprised it's not "Dataslate: Assault Phase"
AlexHolker: "The power loader is a forklift. The public doesn't complain about a forklift not having frontal armour protecting the crew compartment because the only enemy it is designed to face is the OHSA violation."
AlexHolker: "Allow me to put it this way: Paramount is Skynet, reboots are termination attempts, and your childhood is John Connor."
Any french people want to confirm those anti grab laws?
Not a native, but can say they have to same right to make a Citizen Arrest as any other french citizen. He likely been told by friends they can't detain him. Like the dumb kids over here that belive a undercover cop has to tell you he undercover.
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Bob: Outrageous, How dare he say such blasphemy. I've got to do something.
Man #1: Bob, there's nothing you can do.
Bob: Well, I guess I'll just have to develop a sense of humor.
Bi'ios wrote: The fact that you had to ask for that advice tells me you're probably making this up, though, because that's so blatantly obvious it shouldn't need to be stated, and I have a hard time believing that someone would ask this seriously on a totally unrelated forum.
This. My Internet BS senses are tingling.
Haha, I'm amazed this thread is getting serious responses.
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