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Seems like a lot of effort for mediocre firepower for a heavy slot unit. GWs idea of "front" and "side" don't help at all.

Move on one side and pivot the front armor towards the bad guy is hard?

Martel732 wrote:
Seems like a lot of effort for mediocre firepower for a heavy slot unit. GWs idea of "front" and "side" don't help at all.

The way they define armor facings might just be my least favorite rule in 40k.

Are regular predators and vindicators priced the same as the vanilla versions? And is supercharging the engines, uh, the cost of two melta bombs, or however we're supposed to say "10"?

Yeah, the preds and vindis are like vanilla, but you can supercharge for two melta bombs.


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 Desubot wrote:
Move on one side and pivot the front armor towards the bad guy is hard?

The point is that you can't always keep the front towards the enemy and use 24" guns.

Im pretty sure you can with a fast vehicle.

like in what situations would you not be able to without exposing your sides?

 Desubot wrote:
Im pretty sure you can with a fast vehicle.

like in what situations would you not be able to without exposing your sides?

Like, maybe if there were enemy units in two places? Like, if they were 6" apart, probably that would be enough for one to always get side shots.

The only time this can be an issue is when you are too close and they managed to daisy chain around you. or they have 2 long range that can some how cover greater than 48" at minimum.

The former being your fault for getting too close or picking a bad side, and the lather only really apply to tau or eldar which is already a down hill battle.


or drop pods but thats a different game at that point.

With LR being Termie transports only now, I'm not sure if they are worth getting anymore? would I benefit from a Stormraven better? I'm curious how heavy vehicles and flyers will fair in this edition.

Yes, I'd get a Stormraven. It's more versatile and cheaper.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Desubot wrote:
The only time this can be an issue is when you are too close and they managed to daisy chain around you. or they have 2 long range that can some how cover greater than 48" at minimum.

The former being your fault for getting too close or picking a bad side, and the lather only really apply to tau or eldar which is already a down hill battle.


or drop pods but thats a different game at that point.

Other Imperial armies with lascannons. I've done it to Vindicators for years now.

Martel732 wrote:
Yes, I'd get a Stormraven. It's more versatile and cheaper.

It's also nearly mandatory for anti-air these days.

So on the subject of DC, do you give them a BP + CCW or leave them with a Bolter? I remember that way back in 5e someone Mathhammered it and stated that being able to double tap 2 S4 shots before assaulting was better than have the extra S5 attack on the charge. Does this still hold true?

I never liked the boltguns because I shot myself out of assault range several times. You don't need extra damage against unit being assaulted by DC. They're dead.

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
So on the subject of DC, do you give them a BP + CCW or leave them with a Bolter? I remember that way back in 5e someone Mathhammered it and stated that being able to double tap 2 S4 shots before assaulting was better than have the extra S5 attack on the charge. Does this still hold true?

I would say it depends. With the variable charge distances and removing casualties from the front, you could very well leave yourself out of charge range. If you are running them in an assault vehicle, I would just load up for close combat. On the other hand, if drop-podding in, a round of double-tapping and then having them for any Overwatch opportunities may be worth it. Although I would probably use that shooting phase to run into better position/cover.

With the new jump pack prices, I would never drop pod in DC now. I didn't like it before, really.

Martel732 wrote:
With the new jump pack prices, I would never drop pod in DC now. I didn't like it before, really.

5e DoA is gone though, so they're gonna be a lot more prone to mishaps unless you have a Warlord with the DoA trait with them.

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
With the new jump pack prices, I would never drop pod in DC now. I didn't like it before, really.

5e DoA is gone though, so they're gonna be a lot more prone to mishaps unless you have a Warlord with the DoA trait with them.

You mean like that one guy in an uncontested slot who just beefed up on steroids and comes with that trait stock? :p


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 Desubot wrote:
Im pretty sure you can with a fast vehicle.

like in what situations would you not be able to without exposing your sides?

Most balanced lists will run 2 of any element, and space them apart. 2 long range anti-tank elements will typically be found in opposing corners in the opponents deployment zone. If your front is facing one, your side is facing the other.

As a new Blood Angels player coming from C:SM, I guess I really can't see why people are hating this codex.

1. Fast Vehicles - Seriously, being starting that Baal Pred, Pred, or Vindicator out at the edge of your deployment zone and likely being able to get in range with all of your weapons is pretty awesome. 2 Melta Bombs for something like that is a steal.
2. Death Company - Quick question: Why would you EVER take a bolt pistol with these guys? I get that the extra attack is cool, but the Bolter tossing out its Rapid Fire is better. You then charge in and mop up with Rage. 5-15 man squads means I won't have problems fielding a ton of blood-crazed maniacs with my FOUR elite slots. I am going to run a full squad of Jump DC with a Chaplain wearing the Wings of Angels. Which brings me to...
3. Relics - YES. I love these relics! The perfected Plasma Pistol, the reroll Scatter and Reserves Jump Pack, the extra Warlord Trait scrolls. Seriously, if you are that concerned about not getting your Descent of Angels, take those scrolls. You will get four shots at getting it. The Jump Pack is a MUST for a Jump focused army.
4. Dante - Blood Angels SAUCE. He starts with DoA and you get another Warlord trait on top of that. Sauce. Initiative: Probably nothing beating you Axe? Handheld Meltagun? All for the low low price of 2.2 TFCs. I guess I will be getting him.
5. Sanguinary Guard - Ten man squads of cheaper, faster Terminators? Yes please!
6. Lemartes - Twenty points off (at the cost of him taking up an extra slot). He did get nerfed some. Still, I love the murderous little bastard.
7. Tactical Squads - FLAMERS! While it might not be the most effective thing, a Cowboy Sergeant, Flamer, and Heavy Flamer squad is going to be pretty cool to run. Pop a few bolt pistol shots and Charge away. Would've liked for them to be able to take a Chainsword though for a couple points. Would've stopped some of the complaints Re: Assault Squads. Maybe GW will pull their heads out their rears and FAQ that.

My only complaints are the fact that Assault Squads can't take Razorback at a 35 pt discount. I would also have like to seen the ability to trade bolters for chainswords on Tactical Squads too. Also, way too much competition for the HS slot. If they left the Baal Pred in FA, I would have bought THREE of them. Instead, I probably will only get two Predators. So they lost out on some purchases there. If they did that, I could have bought two TriLC Preds too. Nope. Lost business there, GeeDubs. I don't even know what I am going to run much for FA. Maybe some Land Speeders or Bike Squads. Actually, a Scout Bike Squad to Infiltrate with a Locator Beacon would be kinda fun. Gonna have a Prelim list based on the stuff I have later.

Very few people are hating the codex, as you put it. They (we) hate some very specific things, and justifiably so.
If you've ever heard that expression about hell being just like heaven, except that you stub your toe every 10 seconds, it's pretty much like that.

I am quite happy to see Dante finally worth his reputation, usable jump pack death company, and more efficient sanguinary guard.

I'm actually really surprised that Glaves kept their master crafted rule. Have you ever gotten into a combat with a bunch of those guys still alive? Each guy can only reroll one hit, so you have to roll each guy's attacks separately.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, in regards to your question about the death company bolter: because you don't want to kill yourself out of charge range. If you make it to combat at all with more than just a couple death company surviving, you're probably winning anyway, so risking a fail charge just for some extra bolter shells is not the greatest idea ever.

How are you failing charge? Because you killed everyone at the other end of the bolter?

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
As a new Blood Angels player coming from C:SM, I guess I really can't see why people are hating this codex.


3. Relics - YES. I love these relics! The perfected Plasma Pistol, the reroll Scatter and Reserves Jump Pack, the extra Warlord Trait scrolls. Seriously, if you are that concerned about not getting your Descent of Angels, take those scrolls. You will get four shots at getting it. The Jump Pack is a MUST for a Jump focused army.
4. Dante - Blood Angels SAUCE. He starts with DoA and you get another Warlord trait on top of that. Sauce. Initiative: Probably nothing beating you Axe? Handheld Meltagun? All for the low low price of 2.2 TFCs. I guess I will be getting him.

Just FYI, I have the book in front of me now, and Dante's warlord trait is Descent of Angels (Army-wide re-rolls for reserves for flyers, skimmers, and jump, as well as reduced scatter for DS), and he has a special rule that allows him to get a Tactical warlord trait, not Blood Angel trait, if the mission you are playing has Tactical Objectives. Also, the "scroll" relic you're talking about only gives a strategic trait, no extra blood angels trait.

 te11ah wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
As a new Blood Angels player coming from C:SM, I guess I really can't see why people are hating this codex.


3. Relics - YES. I love these relics! The perfected Plasma Pistol, the reroll Scatter and Reserves Jump Pack, the extra Warlord Trait scrolls. Seriously, if you are that concerned about not getting your Descent of Angels, take those scrolls. You will get four shots at getting it. The Jump Pack is a MUST for a Jump focused army.
4. Dante - Blood Angels SAUCE. He starts with DoA and you get another Warlord trait on top of that. Sauce. Initiative: Probably nothing beating you Axe? Handheld Meltagun? All for the low low price of 2.2 TFCs. I guess I will be getting him.

Just FYI, I have the book in front of me now, and Dante's warlord trait is Descent of Angels (Army-wide re-rolls for reserves for flyers, skimmers, and jump, as well as reduced scatter for DS), and he has a special rule that allows him to get a Tactical warlord trait, not Blood Angel trait, if the mission you are playing has Tactical Objectives. Also, the "scroll" relic you're talking about only gives a strategic trait, no extra blood angels trait.

Well crap. Oh well. Though it does say when you generate Warlord Traits you can roll on one of the Warlord Trait tables OR you can roll on the Blood Angels table. But yeah, I get what you are saying and it supposed to be the way you are saying it.

I also think someone said Wings of Sanguinius was gone earlier in this thread, but it's not. It's the sixth Sanguinary ability. And Mephiston does have access to Biomancy, as someone was questioning earlier. Oh and he has Strength 10 goodness with Sanguine Sword as his compulsory first psychic ability.

 te11ah wrote:
I also think someone said Wings of Sanguinius was gone earlier in this thread, but it's not. It's the sixth Sanguinary ability. And Mephiston does have access to Biomancy, as someone was questioning earlier. Oh and he has Strength 10 goodness with Sanguine Sword as his compulsory first psychic ability.

So wings of Sanguinus is a psychic power? Unchanged from the old codex, what mastery level?

Eldercaveman wrote:

 te11ah wrote:
I also think someone said Wings of Sanguinius was gone earlier in this thread, but it's not. It's the sixth Sanguinary ability. And Mephiston does have access to Biomancy, as someone was questioning earlier. Oh and he has Strength 10 goodness with Sanguine Sword as his compulsory first psychic ability.

So wings of Sanguinus is a psychic power? Unchanged from the old codex, what mastery level?

Warp Charge 2, single infantry unit within 12" can move up to 12", and then cannot charge if they move in this way and count as moving.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
As a new Blood Angels player coming from C:SM, I guess I really can't see why people are hating this codex.

1. Fast Vehicles - Seriously, being starting that Baal Pred, Pred, or Vindicator out at the edge of your deployment zone and likely being able to get in range with all of your weapons is pretty awesome. 2 Melta Bombs for something like that is a steal.

For the normal pred and vindicator, fast is a great upgrade but as Martel said earlier the Baal has no spot in the crowded heavy support slot now. Also, you want the TriLas predator back, and dipping between cover to get angles on targets, not up close.

2. Death Company - Quick question: Why would you EVER take a bolt pistol with these guys? I get that the extra attack is cool, but the Bolter tossing out its Rapid Fire is better. You then charge in and mop up with Rage. 5-15 man squads means I won't have problems fielding a ton of blood-crazed maniacs with my FOUR elite slots. I am going to run a full squad of Jump DC with a Chaplain wearing the Wings of Angels. Which brings me to...

Bolters are the last nail in a potentially game losing fail chain. You want the hammer of wrath attack in combat...so you have to use your JP in the assault phase, so you cost yourself 6" in the movement phase. Which means you already have a potentially 6" longer charge. Double tapping bolters increases that charge range again...sometimes by nothing, sometimes by enough to make you miss the charge, which, unless your opponent is "slow", will result in a dead death company squad. With the new formation giving +1I, there's no reason NOT to take BP/CCW, as you will be attacking first 99% of the time anyways, and you shouldn't need the bolters to thin out the target for melee unless you are really desperate.

3. Relics - YES. I love these relics! The perfected Plasma Pistol, the reroll Scatter and Reserves Jump Pack, the extra Warlord Trait scrolls. Seriously, if you are that concerned about not getting your Descent of Angels, take those scrolls. You will get four shots at getting it. The Jump Pack is a MUST for a Jump focused army.

The relics are mediocre to poor. The sword is over priced, the JP is pointless and the plasma pistol is HILARIOUSLY over priced. They most certainly are not upto par with the Space Marine relics like burning blade, shield eternal and whatnot.

4. Dante - Blood Angels SAUCE. He starts with DoA and you get another Warlord trait on top of that. Sauce. Initiative: Probably nothing beating you Axe? Handheld Meltagun? All for the low low price of 2.2 TFCs. I guess I will be getting him

One of the few bright spots in the new book and as close to an auto-include as this codex has.

5. Sanguinary Guard - Ten man squads of cheaper, faster Terminators? Yes please!

Still a bad unit, and probably would still be at 30 points each.

7. Tactical Squads - FLAMERS! While it might not be the most effective thing, a Cowboy Sergeant, Flamer, and Heavy Flamer squad is going to be pretty cool to run. Pop a few bolt pistol shots and Charge away. Would've liked for them to be able to take a Chainsword though for a couple points. Would've stopped some of the complaints Re: Assault Squads. Maybe GW will pull their heads out their rears and FAQ that.

I hate tactical squads.....this change alone has pretty much made me abandon the codex until a formation comes along that doesn't need tacticals or scouts.

I need to see some solid lists before I write the codex off entirely.....but I don't see how you can build a list that plays to the Blood Angels strengths and still have scouts or Tacticals as your troops.

Am I doing my math wrong, but it looks like the Command Squad is thirty points cheaper than their C: SM counter part. The C:SM Command Squad is 100 pts with 15 pts for an Apothecary upgrade and 15 pts for a Company Champion upgrade. The Blood Angels Command Squad is 100 pts with the Sanguinary Initiate(Apothecary) and Company Champion included. This is a pretty big deal.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Am I doing my math wrong, but it looks like the Command Squad is thirty points cheaper than their C: SM counter part. The C:SM Command Squad is 100 pts with 15 pts for an Apothecary upgrade and 15 pts for a Company Champion upgrade. The Blood Angels Command Squad is 100 pts with the Sanguinary Initiate(Apothecary) and Company Champion included. This is a pretty big deal.

Looks that way to me too. Pretty nice unit.

 te11ah wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Am I doing my math wrong, but it looks like the Command Squad is thirty points cheaper than their C: SM counter part. The C:SM Command Squad is 100 pts with 15 pts for an Apothecary upgrade and 15 pts for a Company Champion upgrade. The Blood Angels Command Squad is 100 pts with the Sanguinary Initiate(Apothecary) and Company Champion included. This is a pretty big deal.

Looks that way to me too. Pretty nice unit.

For the low low price of an Elite slot rather than a No slot.

Thanks for straightening me out on the DC, Carnage. As for the fast TriLas Pred, it allows you to get the heck out of dodge if needed. Keep those tanks moving between cover so the opponent can't really set up a strategy against them. The Baal's anti-infantry utility is dependent on the rest of the army. We will have to agree to disagree on the relics. 10 pts more to take away the one drawback of Plasma on top of Master-crafted is worth it to me. The sword is five points to go from AP3 to AP2, hardly a huge expenditure. I guess if they gave it Str +1 that might make it a bit better.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Am I doing my math wrong, but it looks like the Command Squad is thirty points cheaper than their C: SM counter part. The C:SM Command Squad is 100 pts with 15 pts for an Apothecary upgrade and 15 pts for a Company Champion upgrade. The Blood Angels Command Squad is 100 pts with the Sanguinary Initiate(Apothecary) and Company Champion included. This is a pretty big deal.

Can the Command squad get jump packs?

 wuestenfux wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Am I doing my math wrong, but it looks like the Command Squad is thirty points cheaper than their C: SM counter part. The C:SM Command Squad is 100 pts with 15 pts for an Apothecary upgrade and 15 pts for a Company Champion upgrade. The Blood Angels Command Squad is 100 pts with the Sanguinary Initiate(Apothecary) and Company Champion included. This is a pretty big deal.

Can the Command squad get jump packs?

Yes, but it's not per model. It's a flat price equal to a power fist for the whole squad.