Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 wuestenfux wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Am I doing my math wrong, but it looks like the Command Squad is thirty points cheaper than their C: SM counter part. The C:SM Command Squad is 100 pts with 15 pts for an Apothecary upgrade and 15 pts for a Company Champion upgrade. The Blood Angels Command Squad is 100 pts with the Sanguinary Initiate(Apothecary) and Company Champion included. This is a pretty big deal.

Can the Command squad get jump packs?

Yup, which is probably how I would run them. Though you are stuck with the Sanguinary Initiate and Company Champion, so you can only get three Special Weapons out rather than 3-5 like the C:SM Command Squad.

 te11ah wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Am I doing my math wrong, but it looks like the Command Squad is thirty points cheaper than their C: SM counter part. The C:SM Command Squad is 100 pts with 15 pts for an Apothecary upgrade and 15 pts for a Company Champion upgrade. The Blood Angels Command Squad is 100 pts with the Sanguinary Initiate(Apothecary) and Company Champion included. This is a pretty big deal.

Can the Command squad get jump packs?

Yes, but it's not per model. It's a flat price equal to a power fist for the whole squad.

Then it seems to be a quite useful unit.
Can each HQ take a Cmd unit?
How about weapon upgrades?

If the answers are yes and yes, the Cmd squad will be comparable to the old Honor Guard. This would be a good deal.

 wuestenfux wrote:

 te11ah wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Am I doing my math wrong, but it looks like the Command Squad is thirty points cheaper than their C: SM counter part. The C:SM Command Squad is 100 pts with 15 pts for an Apothecary upgrade and 15 pts for a Company Champion upgrade. The Blood Angels Command Squad is 100 pts with the Sanguinary Initiate(Apothecary) and Company Champion included. This is a pretty big deal.

Can the Command squad get jump packs?

Yes, but it's not per model. It's a flat price equal to a power fist for the whole squad.

Then it seems to be a quite useful unit.
Can each HQ take a Cmd unit?
How about weapon upgrades?

If the answers are yes and yes, the Cmd squad will be comparable to the old Honor Guard. This would be a good deal.

Sadly no, they are just an elites unit. The three veterans can select weapons from the Ranged/Melee/Special weapon lists.

 wuestenfux wrote:

 te11ah wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Am I doing my math wrong, but it looks like the Command Squad is thirty points cheaper than their C: SM counter part. The C:SM Command Squad is 100 pts with 15 pts for an Apothecary upgrade and 15 pts for a Company Champion upgrade. The Blood Angels Command Squad is 100 pts with the Sanguinary Initiate(Apothecary) and Company Champion included. This is a pretty big deal.

Can the Command squad get jump packs?

Yes, but it's not per model. It's a flat price equal to a power fist for the whole squad.

Then it seems to be a quite useful unit.
Can each HQ take a Cmd unit?
How about weapon upgrades?

If the answers are yes and yes, the Cmd squad will be comparable to the old Honor Guard. This would be a good deal.

Command Squads use an Elite Slot, they can be taken independent of HQ. Theoretically, you could take four if using the Baal Strike Force detachment, though I don't know why. The three Veterans can take anything from the Melee, Ranged, or Special weapons lists.

EDIT: Ninja'd

Ok here my take after comparing both codexes:
Nice piont drops for a lot of hq's, sang guard got piont drop with option to take more no longer 5 cap, chaplian and techmarine now hq slot, tach squads and scout cheaper, command squad basicly became honor guard but cheaper, both rhino and razor get fast for free slight piont increase. Assault squad move cheaper, bikes way cheaper, Baal cheaper but loses scout, basic pred has cheaper upgrades, vindi cheaper, whirlwind almost 1/3 cheaper, Dante and Seth nice both lower costs. Ball strike force not ob sec, but new white dwarf has Flesh Tearers vanguard strike force . Red thirst plus Speed of Primarch nasty +2 init combined. Psychic powers 2, 3, and 6 can make mephiston beast mode. Be exact just rolling and getting primaris power gives him fleet.

Jump pack command squad with 3 x grav guns. Not relentless like bikes, but the ability to jump over terrain to ambush big nasties, especially if there a few units on the job....

niv-mizzet wrote:
Also, in regards to your question about the death company bolter: because you don't want to kill yourself out of charge range. If you make it to combat at all with more than just a couple death company surviving, you're probably winning anyway, so risking a fail charge just for some extra bolter shells is not the greatest idea ever.

But how often is that happening?
And how often do you contest an objective while there is an enemy within 24"?
Because that's probably the biggest reason to take Boltguns, so that they aren't useless on an objective.

I am mulling around the idea of taking a ten man DC, five with bolters, 2 with BP/CCW, 1 PF, 2 PS. I want versatility. They would run with a Jump Pack Chaplain.

So has anybody noticed the Corbulo death star yet?

Corbulo adds +1 WS and initiative add librarian or chaplain with the ap2 relic sword 4x lightning claw terminators and 3x hammornators on to outside to eat fire power. With 2 troops choices you have a WS 5 s5 I6 ap3 shred with a ap2 at initiative. With librarian casting quickening on himself or lightning claw termy sarge more attacks and fleet. potenial for unleash rage and wings for lolz. This pops out of a lland raider crusader.

Kangodo wrote:

niv-mizzet wrote:
Also, in regards to your question about the death company bolter: because you don't want to kill yourself out of charge range. If you make it to combat at all with more than just a couple death company surviving, you're probably winning anyway, so risking a fail charge just for some extra bolter shells is not the greatest idea ever.

But how often is that happening?
And how often do you contest an objective while there is an enemy within 24"?
Because that's probably the biggest reason to take Boltguns, so that they aren't useless on an objective.

I don't know you about you, but my DC are not going to stop killing people. Some scouts can sit on objectives.

10 death company with bolters camping out on an objective can be pretty durable with FNP, but it just seems a bit of a waste, 200 points to camp, when that 200 points could be using it's other rules with BP&CCW's wrecking face of anything around the objective whilst taking advantage of it's rage rules.

Also, that same death company will be awesome at clearing enemy objectives of troops. Don't have to worry about enemy objective secured when you have killed any unit with it.

Re bolter's on DC,

For me if they can't charge the turn they become available, ie drop pod or rhino, then it's bolter's all the way. But if it's a crusader, j-pack's or s-raven then c-c wpns it is.

I think Kryczek is pretty spot on. However, I don't ever drop them or rhino them. So there's no reason for me to ever use the bolter.

Significant price drops make the whole codex quite new in terms of making lists.

Regarding DC, I'd run 10 men jp DC, 5 bolters (1PF), 4 BP/CSS and a BP/TH keeping it versatile.

 valkyriePROfail wrote:
Significant price drops make the whole codex quite new in terms of making lists.

Regarding DC, I'd run 10 men jp DC, 5 bolters (1PF), 4 BP/CSS and a BP/TH keeping it versatile.

I'm gonna go 8 X BP/CSS 2 X power fist with jump packs. The DC, to me, aren't there for versatility. They are there for murder.

Kangodo wrote:

niv-mizzet wrote:
Also, in regards to your question about the death company bolter: because you don't want to kill yourself out of charge range. If you make it to combat at all with more than just a couple death company surviving, you're probably winning anyway, so risking a fail charge just for some extra bolter shells is not the greatest idea ever.

But how often is that happening?
And how often do you contest an objective while there is an enemy within 24"?
Because that's probably the biggest reason to take Boltguns, so that they aren't useless on an objective.

Yeah you don't take 20-23 point models with rage fearless furious charge and all that jazz to NOT send them into enemy faces. Some of our mandatory taxticals can hold objectives. By all means, put a boltgun on any guy wielding a specialist weapon, because times DO come up where you just need to shoot someone, but if you're using the unit like it should be used and not like an overpriced tac squad, then you actually don't want to cause too many shooting wounds right before your assault phase.

niv-mizzet wrote:

Kangodo wrote:

niv-mizzet wrote:
Also, in regards to your question about the death company bolter: because you don't want to kill yourself out of charge range. If you make it to combat at all with more than just a couple death company surviving, you're probably winning anyway, so risking a fail charge just for some extra bolter shells is not the greatest idea ever.

But how often is that happening?
And how often do you contest an objective while there is an enemy within 24"?
Because that's probably the biggest reason to take Boltguns, so that they aren't useless on an objective.

Yeah you don't take 20-23 point models with rage fearless furious charge and all that jazz to NOT send them into enemy faces. Some of our mandatory taxticals can hold objectives. By all means, put a boltgun on any guy wielding a specialist weapon, because times DO come up where you just need to shoot someone, but if you're using the unit like it should be used and not like an overpriced tac squad, then you actually don't want to cause too many shooting wounds right before your assault phase.

The target unit is likely going to die miserably anyway, so I've never seen the need at all.

I have been thinking of 5+Priest with Jump Packs in a Stormraven.
2 with Bolt Gun/Power Fist
2 with Bolt Pistol/Power Weapon [1 with Maul/1 with Lance]
1 with Plasma Pistol/Chainsword
Priest with Infernus or Plasma Pistol and/or Power Maul.

I may just not be seeing it but ive seen a lot of people say tacs squads can take a lot of flamer weapons. In a squad of 5 tacs isnt it just the one special/heavy weapon and the sergeants weapon, and at 10 you get a special, heavy, and the sergeants combi/hand flamer. Just wondering if I'm missing something? I'm not familiar with salamanders either so not sure how many flamers in a unit is a lot.

The elite section looks quite congested:
Termies, Dreads, Cmd squad, Vanguard, Sternguard, DC.
I'd take DC in the first place.

 wuestenfux wrote:
The elite section looks quite congested:
Termies, Dreads, Cmd squad, Vanguard, Sternguard, DC.
I'd take DC in the first place.

As for the Elites I am Looking at
My Command Squad/Honor Guard
Terminators
And I need to get some Sanguinary Guard and some Death Company.

 Anpu42 wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
The elite section looks quite congested:
Termies, Dreads, Cmd squad, Vanguard, Sternguard, DC.
I'd take DC in the first place.

As for the Elites I am Looking at
My Command Squad/Honor Guard
Terminators
And I need to get some Sanguinary Guard and some Death Company.

SG is too expensive for what it can achieve.
Normal Termies are meh and Assault Termies need a delivery system.

A Cmd squad with 3 special weapons of the same kind is tempting.

GW should've renamed BA as Elite Angels.

 akwing00 wrote:
I may just not be seeing it but ive seen a lot of people say tacs squads can take a lot of flamer weapons. In a squad of 5 tacs isnt it just the one special/heavy weapon and the sergeants weapon, and at 10 you get a special, heavy, and the sergeants combi/hand flamer. Just wondering if I'm missing something? I'm not familiar with salamanders either so not sure how many flamers in a unit is a lot.

The point there is probably the option of taking the Heavy Flamer that Salamanders (Standard SM codex) does not have.

It means a 5-man squad can come with Heavy flamer, 10-man for Flamer+Heavy Flamer. Much more flamers (starting at 5-man). And that is going to be pretty good!

 BlackTalos wrote:

 akwing00 wrote:
I may just not be seeing it but ive seen a lot of people say tacs squads can take a lot of flamer weapons. In a squad of 5 tacs isnt it just the one special/heavy weapon and the sergeants weapon, and at 10 you get a special, heavy, and the sergeants combi/hand flamer. Just wondering if I'm missing something? I'm not familiar with salamanders either so not sure how many flamers in a unit is a lot.

The point there is probably the option of taking the Heavy Flamer that Salamanders (Standard SM codex) does not have.

It means a 5-man squad can come with Heavy flamer, 10-man for Flamer+Heavy Flamer. Much more flamers (starting at 5-man). And that is going to be pretty good!

Not to mention the combi or pair of Hand Flamers on the sarge. With a max of 4 flamers a squad, it's going to get hot!

 valkyriePROfail wrote:
GW should've renamed BA as Elite Angels.

People keep saying this....but I'm not seeing it.

Death Company. Okay, best in slot, no argument from me. Jump packs, a couple fists and/or axes, and they will bury pretty much anything in melee short of a Knight or top level MC.
Sang Guard. Suck...still. Not enough attacks to deal with hordes, not strong enough to deal with MCs, and not amazing against vehicles. Not worth using.
"Normal" Dreads. Just....no. They've been bad since 6th dropped, and no one uses them in any marine army.
Death Company/melee furioso Dreads. Needs a pod. Experience has proven they still have trouble making it to melee. Over kill against infantry, and the opponent would have to be awful to let it charge a decent MC or character. IMO, nearly impossible to use optimally against an opponent that is half decent.
Template dread. Get a pod, Frag cannon/heavy flamer. Costs what? 175? If you want to do template spam you might as well use tactical squads, as you are forced to take them anyways and can filled your cursed compulsory troop slots
Vanguard? Are these even elite? Inferior to DC in every way at any rate.
Sternguard. The chapter tactic does nothing for them, and if they've been brought into line with vanilla sterns, their combi-weapons are over priced now. I wouldn't take them in a vanilla list other then salamanders for MC melta fire, so I'm sure as hell not taking them here.
Edit: I forgot terminator! They are literally that bad. Tacticals suck balls, and melee termies are impossible to deploy properly.
Edit2; Forgot command squads...damnit. I have to see the points here, but they are inferior in melee to DC, and I feel there are probably better options for deploying special weapons elsewhere. bikes/attack bikes probably. It's also borderline insulting they are an elites choice instead of slotless HQ unlock.

I might field a couple of dreads occasionally ....MAYBE, but not every time.
Death Company is a no brainer, maybe 2 squads of 6 or 7 actually.

So 2, maybe 3 once in a while Elite slots. Not feeling crowded personally.

Indeed, the DC is a nobrainer.
I'll run two units of ten and build the army around them.

 Carnage43 wrote:

 valkyriePROfail wrote:
GW should've renamed BA as Elite Angels.

People keep saying this....but I'm not seeing it.

Death Company. Okay, best in slot, no argument from me. Jump packs, a couple fists and/or axes, and they will bury pretty much anything in melee short of a Knight or top level MC.
Sang Guard. Suck...still. Not enough attacks to deal with hordes, not strong enough to deal with MCs, and not amazing against vehicles. Not worth using.
"Normal" Dreads. Just....no. They've been bad since 6th dropped, and no one uses them in any marine army.
Death Company/melee furioso Dreads. Needs a pod. Experience has proven they still have trouble making it to melee. Over kill against infantry, and the opponent would have to be awful to let it charge a decent MC or character. IMO, nearly impossible to use optimally against an opponent that is half decent.
Template dread. Get a pod, Frag cannon/heavy flamer. Costs what? 175? If you want to do template spam you might as well use tactical squads, as you are forced to take them anyways and can filled your cursed compulsory troop slots
Vanguard? Are these even elite, cause they are FA in the vanilla book. Inferior to DC in every way at any rate.
Sternguard. The chapter tactic does nothing for them, and if they've been brought into line with vanilla sterns, their combi-weapons are over priced now. I wouldn't take them in a vanilla list other then salamanders for MC melta fire, so I'm sure as hell not taking them here.
Edit: I forgot terminator! They are literally that bad. Tacticals suck balls, and melee termies are impossible to deploy properly.
Edit2; Forgot command squads...damnit. I have to see the points here, but they are inferior in melee to DC, and I feel there are probably better options for deploying special weapons elsewhere. bikes/attack bikes probably.

I might field a couple of dreads occasionally ....MAYBE, but not every time.
Death Company is a no brainer, maybe 2 squads of 6 or 7 actually.

So 2, maybe 3 once in a while Elite slots. Not feeling crowded personally.

just curious, I plan on running several squads of DC, but I was thinking of using Sanguinary guard just an escort for Dante. Would it be better just giving dante a DC escort?

Vanguard Vets are Elite in the Vanilla codex. And Sternguards aren't totally worthless in terms of the Chapter Tactics, they are still Vets with two attacks and can take a Power Fist if you really want to smack something. And you are right, Combi weapons are so overpriced people ALWAYS field 6+ on a ten man Sternguard squad. Sternguard are one of the go to things in Elites in C:SM regardless of Chapter Tactics. Heck, if I wanted to play a fluffy unbound list, I would play Pedro Kantor and as many Sternguards in Drop Pods I could afford for the points.

What exactly were you expecting on the Dreads? Yes, they need drop pods. It isn't like they have Scout or Infiltrate. Just like every other dread in the game. Why would BA be different in this respect? Sanguinary Guard are pretty good. Give one or two guys a fist and you have a fast moving Swiss army kill unit. Death Company can and likely will kill any unit they come in contact with if equipped properly. Command Squads are a good way to get three special weapons on the board and have FNP built right into the unit and are thirty points cheaper than their C:SM counterpart. Give em three plasma guns and go spam AP2 with fewer drawbacks. Tactical Terminator suck, just like in every other SM army, why would you expect any different? It isn't like BA are known for all of their Terminators. Assault Terminators with a few Storm Shields are pretty survivable and can lay some serious hurt down with their hammers.

@Martel732, you're laughing then.

Me, i have both. 10 in a pod and 5 soon to be 10 with JP. Thinking on getting more either 10 or 15 on foot with c-c weapons for a LR crusader though.

Or learn to magnetize the JP's

I'm pretty fortunate with this new codex as i have always had a tactical squad in my army and 5 sniper scout's every now and again. Now I'm actually looking forward to having even more gun's in my army. It is a shooting game now after all. More gun's and more feet on the ground is what I'm going for.