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 evildrcheese wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Strike Force Mortalis is from Shield of Baal: Exterminatus.

So where does the Ironclad come in, or do you mean a furioso? What's your thinking behind this formation that males it so great, I can actually remember which on it is, is it the Death Company one?

Grav command squads are pretty interesting, but if you're dropping in you won't be benefiting from max shots, and after you've dropped you'll either take casulties, reducing effectiveness for future shooting or you opponent will just move out of range...

D

Mortalis requires a Chaplain, 3 Death Company Squads, two Death Company Dreads, and I think a Stormraven. In my opinion, it isn't that great. It seems to more exist as a way to field an army that consists solely of DC and a Chaplain.

Anyone else finding that their best lists end up looking like highlander lists? All of the BA lists that ive built for tournaments, including the one im playing in a league right now, repeat one, maybe two units. The rest are standalone choices.

Does this codex lend itself to this strategy over spam? Certainly seems so.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 evildrcheese wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Strike Force Mortalis is from Shield of Baal: Exterminatus.

So where does the Ironclad come in, or do you mean a furioso? What's your thinking behind this formation that males it so great, I can actually remember which on it is, is it the Death Company one?

Grav command squads are pretty interesting, but if you're dropping in you won't be benefiting from max shots, and after you've dropped you'll either take casulties, reducing effectiveness for future shooting or you opponent will just move out of range...

D

Mortalis requires a Chaplain, 3 Death Company Squads, two Death Company Dreads, and I think a Stormraven. In my opinion, it isn't that great. It seems to more exist as a way to field an army that consists solely of DC and a Chaplain.

Strike Force Mortalis gives you 5 Elite slots, that can be used basically. Then you'd just take a normal 3 Ironclads, for a total of 5 dreadnoughts 3 of which land on the first turn and can be the Furiosos or the Death company. Like so...

Also, the Death Company Dreadnoughts in this formation when charging a unit that has more models get's another +1 attack. So on the charge it has 7 attacks.

Strike Force Mortalis
5 man Death Company
5 man Death Company
5 man Death Company
Death Company Dreadnought
Death Company Dreadnought
Chappy


HQ
Whatever
Elite
Ironclad
Ironclad
Ironclad


Or the one that is actually pretty powerful

Two formations

Angels Fury
1 Tactical Squad x10 w/ Meltagun, H. Flamer, meltabombs
Stormraven

1 Tactical Squad x 10 w/ meltagun, H. Flamer, meltabombs
Stormraven

1 Tactical Squad x 10 w/ meltagun, H. Flamer, meltabombs
Stormraven

Total : 1095


Strike Force Mortalis

Death Company Dreadnought w/ Drop Pod (160)
Death Company Dreadnought w/ Drop Pod (160)
Death Company w/ Drop Pod (135)
Death Company w/ Jump Packs (115)
Death Company w/ Jump Packs (115)
Chaplain ( 90 )

Total : 1870


Angels Fury is notable for allowing first turn assaults, plus all troops are Objective Secured, plus the whole deep strike assault near 2 of them.

Anyone else finding that their best lists end up looking like highlander lists?

Highlander list? what's that?

Highlander is a concept from MtG where you take a maximum of 1 of each card.

And I have to agree.
For many armies the best way to play is to take as much of certain units as possible.
But every time I try to build a BA-list it comes down to: 1 group of this, 1 of this and 1 of this.

Hmm. I dunno, in my last game I really felt that I could've used a second squad of DC. Although I did charge them into a sternguard/ libby/foot slot chapter master until as the unit failed to get Invis off, I then wiffed and didn't kill enough and it proceeded to get invis off in all the following turns and kept me tied up...

God damn Invis is so annoying, especially now we can't get it.

D

Ally in a Sevrin Loth and 5 scouts if you want Invisibility so badly.

Has anyone thought of an MSU jumper strategy? I just hashed out a list with 2x5 death co, 5 sanguinary guard, a fragpod, 2x5 scouts with melta bombs, 2x5 tri melta asm squads, 2 baals and a stormraven, led by dante and a priest. Presents a lot of targets to shoot at, all of which can do some damage if allowed to get in close.

 th3maninblak wrote:
Has anyone thought of an MSU jumper strategy? I just hashed out a list with 2x5 death co, 5 sanguinary guard, a fragpod, 2x5 scouts with melta bombs, 2x5 tri melta asm squads, 2 baals and a stormraven, led by dante and a priest. Presents a lot of targets to shoot at, all of which can do some damage if allowed to get in close.

I've been toying with something similar, but have been looking at about 8 in each squad. My last list had 32 jump pack infantry (16x Death Company, 8x Vanguard, 8x Sanguinary Guard) and 35 foot infantry (15x assault marines, 20x tacticals). Very choppy with decent resiliency through numbers.

Oh PanzerLeader, got rid of the bike army and now jump blood angels. Now I know what you have been up too.

Has anyone thought of an MSU jumper strategy?

Thought of it and didn't fancy it as 5 marines last no time at all. If you have any joy then let us know. But it's been no luck for me with them.

My mate did pretty well with this list at cally using one of the flesh tearer strike forces

Dante
Priest, jump pack, veritas vitae

9 sanguinary guard, 2 fists, chapter banner.

10 tactical marines, melta heavy flamer drop pod x 2

5 Assualt marines melta, melta, combi melta, pod. X 5

Allies iron hands

Chapter master, power fist, shield eternal, bike.

5 x scouts

kryczek wrote:

Has anyone thought of an MSU jumper strategy?

Thought of it and didn't fancy it as 5 marines last no time at all. If you have any joy then let us know. But it's been no luck for me with them.

Im using them in a league at the moment. Command squad with 3 meltas, 2x5 melta asm squads and another 5 man assault marine squad with 2 flamers. On top of a 10 man tac squad with melta+combi+heavy flamer in a pod it gives me 11 accurately deep striking melta guns (using dantes warlord trait). There are at least 4 knights in the league, and that many melta guns just cores them.

 martin74 wrote:
Oh PanzerLeader, got rid of the bike army and now jump blood angels. Now I know what you have been up too.

No buyer on the bikes so those are still in my inventory. BA are my next project, after I finish the Sisters.

Should jump packs be an auto upgrade for libraiums and priest? Is that extra manourability worth it? I'm mainly asking as I don't know the best units to run them with.

Of course not.

Jump Packs still dominate our armies so Sanguinary Priest or Librarian does support your army with a Jump Pack, but there are still tons of reasons why my Libbies/Priests don't necessarily have JP's.

Bikes, Terminators, Tacitcals, anything in Drop Pod etc...

So ive pretty much compiled all my findings from the 20+ games with this codex so far and put together the "best" list i can make without resorting to ally/detachment/multi CAD shenanigans. I havent tried it out yet, but im pretty excited to come the first tournament after this league. Here is an approximation.

MSU Jumpers

LOW
-Dante

HQ
-sanguinary priest
Jump pack
Pistol
Power sword

ELITES
-5x death co
Sword
Fist
Jump packs

-5x death co
Sword
Fist
Jump packs

-5x sang guard
2x fists
Chapter banner

-frag dread
Heavy flamer
Pod

TROOPS
-5x scouts
Shanks
Melta bomb

-5x scouts
Shanks
Melta bomb

FAST ATTACK
-5x assault marines
2x melta
Combi

-5x assault marines
2x melta
Combi

HEAVY SUPPORT
-Baal pred
assault cannon
Heavy bolters

-baal pred
Assault cannon
Heavy bolters

-stormraven
Lascannon
Multi melta
Hurricane bolters

1846

The baals have been really good to me, even when testing tri laspreds i find myself missing them. There are so many monsters in this area and large groups of infantry (green tide, etc) mixed in with mechanized forces that the swiss army knife nature of the baal just shines through.

Thoughts?

For those aren't running Dante , what do we think the best HQ choice is, in terms of it being our warlord?

I really like Librarians but the lack of an invul means they lack durability, obviously you can put him in TDA with a Storm shield, but then you really need a termie squad to out him in and a delivery system which comes to a huge point investment...

Captains obviously have access to a 2+/3++, you can put him a on bike for extra T, but then you need a decent bike squad preferably with a bike priest (which is both you hq slots, so no Librarian...)

Chaplains are really cool fluffwise but they only offer a minor buff to a single unit, aren't especially durable or punchy .

Priests offer food buffing, but no access to arty armour or an invul doesn't make them a good choice for a Warlord choice.

D

 evildrcheese wrote:
For those aren't running Dante , what do we think the best HQ choice is, in terms of it being our warlord?

I really like Librarians but the lack of an invul means they lack durability, obviously you can put him in TDA with a Storm shield, but then you really need a termie squad to out him in and a delivery system which comes to a huge point investment...

Captains obviously have access to a 2+/3++, you can put him a on bike for extra T, but then you need a decent bike squad preferably with a bike priest (which is both you hq slots, so no Librarian...)

Chaplains are really cool fluffwise but they only offer a minor buff to a single unit, aren't especially durable or punchy .

Priests offer food buffing, but no access to arty armour or an invul doesn't make them a good choice for a Warlord choice.

D

Captain all the way.

Librarians CAN be really strong, but rely on too many decent dice rolls to unlock their full potential. Also BA dont generate enough power dice to get too many powers off vs other psychic armies. Chaplains are cool, and go great with death company, but with only 2 wounds and no 2+ armor the arent as durable as a proper warlord should be.

A captain with artificer armor and valours edge with either a jump pack or a bike makes a cheap and fairly durable combat character that also makes a good warlord. For some more points you could take a relic blade+storm shield with the extra strategic trait and whatever mobility option you want. Either option is good.

So you tested a lot this new codex? cool
can i ask you something about the list you posted?

1) what detachment you use? i suppose Baal Strike but there are so many around you can't be sure about
2) what's the "shank" on your scout unit? they are equipped sniper or close combat?
3) 5 sanguinary guard are'nt too few? i found myself a bit concerned on small unit because tend to be crushed very easily... :\
4) is ASM drop podded?
5) what if did'nt use Dante? (already seen other's replies so maybe an artificier captain on bike/jump)
6) what to face MC spam? autocannon baal predator is enough?

i mainly play at 1750 so i will need to tweak it a little...

 th3maninblak wrote:

 evildrcheese wrote:
For those aren't running Dante , what do we think the best HQ choice is, in terms of it being our warlord?

I really like Librarians but the lack of an invul means they lack durability, obviously you can put him in TDA with a Storm shield, but then you really need a termie squad to out him in and a delivery system which comes to a huge point investment...

Captains obviously have access to a 2+/3++, you can put him a on bike for extra T, but then you need a decent bike squad preferably with a bike priest (which is both you hq slots, so no Librarian...)

Chaplains are really cool fluffwise but they only offer a minor buff to a single unit, aren't especially durable or punchy .

Priests offer food buffing, but no access to arty armour or an invul doesn't make them a good choice for a Warlord choice.

D

Captain all the way.

Librarians CAN be really strong, but rely on too many decent dice rolls to unlock their full potential. Also BA dont generate enough power dice to get too many powers off vs other psychic armies. Chaplains are cool, and go great with death company, but with only 2 wounds and no 2+ armor the arent as durable as a proper warlord should be.

A captain with artificer armor and valours edge with either a jump pack or a bike makes a cheap and fairly durable combat character that also makes a good warlord. For some more points you could take a relic blade+storm shield with the extra strategic trait and whatever mobility option you want. Either option is good.

That relic that gives two strategic traits is really cool. I've used it a couple of times and have been really impressed with it.

I'll give the Captain a go maybe with a jp and put hide him in my DC. I don't currently run Sang guard who would be my other contender of a unit to put him in. I wish we had a way to take more HQs, the BA can offer so many buffs but there's just not enough slots to do it.

D

Top HQ's?

1) Librarian, still.

2) Captain, decent enough.

3) Sanguinary Priest, a cheap, solid option.

I'm not impressed by the named characters at all, except for Dante.

The Captain is slightly better than in last codex but somehow I don't bother using him outside fluffy setups.
Librarian still benefits the army more and the benefits he gives to his squads are superior to the extra hit of the Captain.

 soomemafia wrote:
Top HQ's?

1) Librarian, still.

2) Captain, decent enough.

3) Sanguinary Priest, a cheap, solid option.

I'm not impressed by the named characters at all, except for Dante.

The Captain is slightly better than in last codex but somehow I don't bother using him outside fluffy setups.
Librarian still benefits the army more and the benefits he gives to his squads are superior to the extra hit of the Captain.

Really? I would reverse that order.

1) Sanguinary priest. Cheap, surprisingly killy, gives massive buffs to his squad.

2) Captain. Solid combat character, hyper efficient in terms of cost to effectiveness ratio, makesa solid warlord.

3) Librarian. Can be awesome, but relies on too many random rolls (powers, warp charges, etc) to be consistent. As fragile as the priest, and the army doesnt usually generate enough power dice for him to do a ton.

Of the special characters, Dante is a monster, Mephiston is points efficient and is fantastic at cutting knights and thunderwolves down, and Astorath has become a very low costed character who is decent in combat, fairly durable, and turns the damage output of the best unit in the codex up to 11.

Yeah Astorath and Dante with a squad of Death Company is a terrifying sight to behold. I watched a battle report where that unit killed like 40 hounds and 2 Heralds in two assault phases. The Hounds even had Invisibility in one of the phases.. .

Too bad Dante's a LoW. Lots of tourneys these days disallowing them.

Here is a List I thought of, it requires double force org though :(

Baal strike force-
Captain w/ artificer, bike, Valor's Edge-150
Sang priest w/ power weapon, bolt pistol, bike-96
company command squad w/ jump packs- 125
6 man bike unit w/ 2 grav guns, w/ vet sgt combi grav-166
6 man bike unit w/ 2 grav guns, w/ vet sgt combi grav-166
6 man bike unit w/ 2 grav guns, w/ vet sgt combi grav-166
6 man DC w/ jump packs 1 TH-168
6 man DC w/ jump packs 1 TH-168
5 man tac squad-70
5 man tac squad- 70

CAD detachment-
Sang priest w/ bike, power weapon- 96
Sang priest w/ bike, power weapon- 96
scouts-55
scouts-55
ASM w/2 melta, combi melta-115
ASM w/2 melta combi-melta-115

this leaves you 90 points to play with, you can do several things,
drop combi-weapons from bikes, give them power weapons (what I actually prefer here myself, though most of dakka will disagree)

give tacs a heavy weapon so they can take pot shots at things

or give the ASM sgts duel inferno pistols, would take up another 40 points of the remaining 90.

or you could drop the command squad (which imo is a steal for their price) to take sang guard, but all that ap2 will be going into them then, which I don't like.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
ofc, you could drop the 2nd detachment for even more points to play with and add a storm raven or two, with enough points after that for several toys in the squads (or.... more boys, ugh)

 raiden wrote:
Here is a List I thought of, it requires double force org though :(

Baal strike force-
Captain w/ artificer, bike, Valor's Edge-150
Sang priest w/ power weapon, bolt pistol, bike-96
company command squad w/ jump packs- 125
6 man bike unit w/ 2 grav guns, w/ vet sgt combi grav-166
6 man bike unit w/ 2 grav guns, w/ vet sgt combi grav-166
6 man bike unit w/ 2 grav guns, w/ vet sgt combi grav-166
6 man DC w/ jump packs 1 TH-168
6 man DC w/ jump packs 1 TH-168
5 man tac squad-70
5 man tac squad- 70

CAD detachment-
Sang priest w/ bike, power weapon- 96
Sang priest w/ bike, power weapon- 96
scouts-55
scouts-55
ASM w/2 melta, combi melta-115
ASM w/2 melta combi-melta-115

this leaves you 90 points to play with, you can do several things,
drop combi-weapons from bikes, give them power weapons (what I actually prefer here myself, though most of dakka will disagree)

give tacs a heavy weapon so they can take pot shots at things

or give the ASM sgts duel inferno pistols, would take up another 40 points of the remaining 90.

or you could drop the command squad (which imo is a steal for their price) to take sang guard, but all that ap2 will be going into them then, which I don't like.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
ofc, you could drop the 2nd detachment for even more points to play with and add a storm raven or two, with enough points after that for several toys in the squads (or.... more boys, ugh)

Interesting list. Does the lack of air support concern you?

Does the command squad have any upgrades other than than the jump packs? What's their role exactly?

D

The command squad comes built in with a champion w/ power weapon and combat shield, and sang novitiate. Get 4 attacks on the charge. Its imo, a pretty strong unit, that looks very non-intimidating but is deadly on the charge. They are there as back up wherever I need/want them and a bully unit. Not meant to take on scary CC things but go after the things they can reliably kill, while still being potentially able to take on bigger CC units.

As said, if you wanted you could drop the ASM for a storm raven from the 2nd detachment or just drop it entirely (losing some fnp for the bikes ) and take two ravens with a good 100 points to spare. Possibly upgrading the bike sgts. Ive just started testing it, but it works fairly well so far, my local meta has limited flyer spam .


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You could also use the spare points to make the command squad shooty if you so wish, but idk if I would, turns them into a target fast.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, is anyone else a bit upset that our command squad doesnt have the option to take bikes? I love bikes man.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You could also give them 3 storm shields if you so wished. (Sadly, the champion and novitiate cannot take them or special weapons, veterans only)

When i run a command squad, theyve always toted 3 melta guns. 155 for 5 dudes with fnp that are decent in combat, have jump packs and are packing 3 anti tank weapons is awesome.

The name of the game for blood angels is efficiency. Everything in our army is amazingly cost effective, though we lack the ability to field true death stars. 2 meltas+combi for 115 points, or 3 meltas+champion+apothecary for 155 points (all with jump, of course), super fighty captains for under 150, free weapons onvanguard/sternguard vets, all of this just screams about getting more bang for your buck.

 raiden wrote:
The command squad comes built in with a champion w/ power weapon and combat shield, and sang novitiate. Get 4 attacks on the charge. Its imo, a pretty strong unit, that looks very non-intimidating but is deadly on the charge. They are there as back up wherever I need/want them and a bully unit. Not meant to take on scary CC things but go after the things they can reliably kill, while still being potentially able to take on bigger CC units.

As said, if you wanted you could drop the ASM for a storm raven from the 2nd detachment or just drop it entirely (losing some fnp for the bikes ) and take two ravens with a good 100 points to spare. Possibly upgrading the bike sgts. Ive just started testing it, but it works fairly well so far, my local meta has limited flyer spam .


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You could also use the spare points to make the command squad shooty if you so wish, but idk if I would, turns them into a target fast.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, is anyone else a bit upset that our command squad doesnt have the option to take bikes? I love bikes man.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You could also give them 3 storm shields if you so wished. (Sadly, the champion and novitiate cannot take them or special weapons, veterans only)

I can see them working as a bully unit, I forgot about the Sang Novitiate so they have FNP. The champ does have to issue and accept challenges so a canny opponent can deny the unit of it's teeth.

I would maybe move the Tac marines to the CAD and give them heavy weapons and use the as Obj Sec backfield holders. And put the scouts in the BSF and make the sgt a vet sgt and give them power weapons if points permit. That way you can get some scouts in your opponents face due to infiltrate and scout, and the tac squads can sit back and shoot heavy weapons and will need to be taken out or contested by another obj sec unit.

D