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Just got the White dwarf:

Interesting that the Decurion shows how GW thinks the Necrons should be played.
"...Even the smallest Decurion is a significant strike force, with around 30 necrons within the reclamation legion and a lesser ancillary unit of five Deathmarks or Flayed ones - ideal for smaller missions, where overwhelming strength is neither required or appropriate.

So per GW, the correct way to play Necrons is to foot slog around in a horde infantry army because bringing serious firepower to a battle is inappropriate.

Interesting on page 11 " The necron range offers a host of extra kits to support this sturdy core of your army. Monoliths provide transport for your warriors..."
If they are referring to the dimensional corridor then any non-vehicle would apply and not just warriors.
Monolith as a transport?
That would make monolith's interesting.
AV14 deep strike with 20 warriors.
With gauss that should let you kill a vehicle before you get locked up and killed in CC next turn.

Also Page 20:
"Enhanced Reanimation Protocols: this is the golden bonus ......reroll 1's....."
Now either I know something he doesn't, specifically, how the current game is played, or he knows something I don't.
Today, this golden bonus add a 5% chance to RP restricted to within 12" of OL. (1/6*2/6= 5.5%)
Not quite worthless in the current codex but its pretty close.
Surely, this guy isn't just talking out of his rear orifice.

So what would the RP need to be to make this 'golden'?
Maybe RP is a D3 roll and on a value of 1 you get to reroll again.
That would be 'golden'.
If its 5+ FNP then this is basically provides little to no benefit but carries a rather large restriction to sticking within 12" of OL.
It makes me really worried to think it really is reroll 1's on a 5+ and in the new codex this is legitimately 'golden', as in, the other benefits in the codex are less than this.
On the other hand, he thinks the RP benefit is golden but just thinks the move through cover is only good in comparison.
Maybe, he just has no clue.

AND This game mechanic seems purposely designed to guide players into huddling their troops up to get this 'golden' benefit.
I would point out that this makes it so that they are easier to kill by pie plate or let some CC deathstar wipe them out.
This would appear to put a dampener on 5 warriors in a scythe.
On the other hand, if it is only 1's on 5+ then it won't matter either way.

Gunther wrote:
Just got the White dwarf:
Surely, this guy isn't just talking out of his rear orifice.

So what would the RP need to be to make this 'golden'?

Im sure its coming out of his front orifice all over necron players hopes and dreams

But yeah 100% its just a sales department saying a whole lot of nothing.

Gunther wrote:
Just got the White dwarf:

Interesting that the Decurion shows how GW thinks the Necrons should be played.
"...Even the smallest Decurion is a significant strike force, with around 30 necrons within the reclamation legion and a lesser ancillary unit of five Deathmarks or Flayed ones - ideal for smaller missions, where overwhelming strength is neither required or appropriate.

So per GW, the correct way to play Necrons is to foot slog around in a horde infantry army because bringing serious firepower to a battle is inappropriate.

...

Well, warriors are supposed to indeed make the core of the default (if any) Necron army, like any troops are supposed to be the core of any other army.
Now, the new rules about detachments does allow you to bring anything you want, including 0 Troops, for your army.
Nonetheless, I think the fluff has guided that sentence, and you did not highlight the ideal for smaller missions

davethepak wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Anyone notice this VERY INTERESTING snippet from the Reclamation legion bundle...

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Reclamation-Legion-Web-Bundle

It is also supplied with four 40mm round bases, three small flying bases, and thirty-nine 25mm round bases and forty 32mm round bases to give you the choice of how you want to base your miniatures.

Fascinating.

I think that answers a lot of questions people had...

Why are not more people raving about this? (Besides being in a useless web bundle)

It just mean that GW does not care whether we put our minis of small, medium, or large size bases.
Now what does it say about what your friends will allow you to do? Nothing ...
What does it say about tournament organizers? Nothing ...

I read in this thread or another than the rule was apparently to allow players to use the base size that came with the model ... so this shall translate into: use whatever base size was in the box that contained the model sprue ... in which case, you could indeed put some warrior on 25mm, some on 32mm, and some on 40mm bases ... how fun

more seriously, I don't think that implies anything new: tournament organizers usually have their own set of rules, right? In particular regarding what you can bring, what detachment are allowed, right?
so if you play in tournaments, it does not change anything: wait to get their specific rules
if you play only with friends, then you'll have to discuss about it with them

or maybe you were wondering why we were not talking about the (dis)advantage(s) of choosing such or such base size?

 Sinful Hero wrote:

davethepak wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Anyone notice this VERY INTERESTING snippet from the Reclamation legion bundle...

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Reclamation-Legion-Web-Bundle

It is also supplied with four 40mm round bases, three small flying bases, and thirty-nine 25mm round bases and forty 32mm round bases to give you the choice of how you want to base your miniatures.

Fascinating.

I think that answers a lot of questions people had...

Why are not more people raving about this? (Besides being in a useless web bundle)

Guess we're not seeing a new monolith anytime soon.

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 keltikhoa wrote:

 Anpu-adom wrote:


The Reclamation Legion contains 44 Citadel miniatures, including: 1 Necron Overlord, 5 Lychguard, 10 Immortals, 24 Necron Warriors, 3 Tomb Blades and 1 Monolith. For $306.75... no savings over separate.

HAHA called that one about 10 pages ago

Why get so excited or act like it's some big deal that you were right?
None of the "web bundles" have given savings.

It's only the items which get an actual box and shelf space at the stores which have given savings.

I think he meant he called what was in it.

Unless I completely fail at math (it happens) this bundle saves you $33 over website list prices.

 Sinful Hero wrote:

davethepak wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Anyone notice this VERY INTERESTING snippet from the Reclamation legion bundle...

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Reclamation-Legion-Web-Bundle

It is also supplied with four 40mm round bases, three small flying bases, and thirty-nine 25mm round bases and forty 32mm round bases to give you the choice of how you want to base your miniatures.

Fascinating.

I think that answers a lot of questions people had...

Why are not more people raving about this? (Besides being in a useless web bundle)

Raving about the base change? A) old news pictured in Exterminatus b) not an advantage for Necrons, since we don't want to be in assault in the current incarnation.

 NecronLord3 wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:

davethepak wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Anyone notice this VERY INTERESTING snippet from the Reclamation legion bundle...

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Reclamation-Legion-Web-Bundle

It is also supplied with four 40mm round bases, three small flying bases, and thirty-nine 25mm round bases and forty 32mm round bases to give you the choice of how you want to base your miniatures.

Fascinating.

I think that answers a lot of questions people had...

Why are not more people raving about this? (Besides being in a useless web bundle)

Raving about the base change? A) old news pictured in Exterminatus b) not an advantage for Necrons, since we don't want to be in assault in the current incarnation.

I meant more that they included both base sizes to use for your models, but okay.

Gunther wrote:


Also Page 20:
"Enhanced Reanimation Protocols: this is the golden bonus ......reroll 1's....."
Now either I know something he doesn't, specifically, how the current game is played, or he knows something I don't.
Today, this golden bonus add a 5% chance to RP restricted to within 12" of OL. (1/6*2/6= 5.5%)
Not quite worthless in the current codex but its pretty close.
Surely, this guy isn't just talking out of his rear orifice.

Welcome to 7th. They actually thought the new ork mob rules were FAR more beneficial to orks.

That would make monolith's interesting.
AV14 deep strike with 20 warriors.
With gauss that should let you kill a vehicle before you get locked up and killed in CC next turn.

You can already use the Monolith to DS 20 Warriors. Have you ever even played with a Mono? Also, if properly supported with Olords and RC there's a very short list of units, particular in this shoot first meta, that can touch 20 Warriors in CC. You also seem to forget that these Warriors will be relentless.

Not quite worthless in the current codex but its pretty close.

I'm not sure how you consider a nearly army wide resiliency buff worthless. Particularly when we don't know for sure on the exact details of the new RP. If it keeps it's persistent through double T and Insta death, and becomes something that happens instantly (instead of at the end of the phase), then a consistent increase to it's effectiveness from (1/3) to (7/18) is a welcome buff. Particularly when you are getting it basically for free.

I think people missed one of the most important details from the WD:

Someone in (possibly 'Eavy Metal) got their finger prints on a model.



I do like the Glyph marker idea though.

I have to admit the everything has relentless ability is more useful than it looks, well.... it gives more options anyway (pending) Tomb blades can now take the particle beamer and still move and shoot (to bad the ap on the PB sucks but then again 5 str 6 AP5 small blast can still dish out a bunch of wounds....) and gives wraiths the ability to use the Transdimensional beamer while still being able to move shoot and charge 4 or 5 beamers go around monster or IC hunting.



I don't know just trying to see a light side I guess.

Tomb Blades could always move and shoot because, as Jetbikes, they already have Relentless.

So far we only know that the reclamation legion has relentless, and Wraiths can't be taken in that formation. For all we know the formation with the wraiths doesn't give them relentless.

Move Through Cover is pretty good for Jetbikes though.

You can already use the Monolith to DS 20 Warriors. Have you ever even played with a Mono? Also, if properly supported with Olords and RC there's a very short list of units, particular in this shoot first meta, that can touch 20 Warriors in CC. You also seem to forget that these Warriors will be relentless.

If you read my post you will find the following:

If they are referring to the dimensional corridor then any non-vehicle would apply and not just warriors.

So yes, I am aware that a monolith can disembark a single unit per turn in the movement phase through the use of the dimensional corridor.
I was trying to consider what it would mean if the monolith was used as transport vehicle as the quote from the WD suggested.
Deep striking in close enough to be in rapid fire range means I am in charge range.
I suppose contrary to my earlier statement, if the Mono is a transport, it can't be locked into CC.

If I intended to use my warriors as a CC unit, relentless might be useful.
As it is in the current codex, warriors are well below average CC units.

Standing 5% more models back up via this benefit isn't going to turn the tide in any game.

If the RP mechanism completely changes to something else and makes rerolling 1's on RP 'golden' then my worries are for nothing.

As it is in the current codex, warriors are well below average CC units.

20 Relentless Warriors can already do almost 8 MEq wounds on the charge. Granted, that number will tend to diminish against harder hitting targets as the Crons strike last, but they are getting more then 4 of those wounds from the double tap alone.

As someone who regularly used a Brick of warriors lead by Imo (whose decent, but not exactly an all star in CC) all throughout the current Dex's life, I can tell you a 20 brick of relentless Warriors can handle themselves against a wide variety of units up close. If RP triggers immediatly (prior to LD checks, which the rumors seem to dance around at least), their ability to stick around in CC will only go up.

Granted, I wouldn't go charging Khorne Bezerkers with them. But against quite a few targets, and particularly with an actual CC threat of an Olord, it's a unit that will threaten more then it doesn't in CC.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Standing 5% more models back up via this benefit isn't going to turn the tide in any game.

Sure it will. Because each guy you get back then has to be hit again, wounded again, fail another save, and fail another (7/18) RP roll. I think you are underestimating the compounding effect of a mechanic like RP, even in it's current iteration. Think about it this way. You get, on average, 2 additional successes every 36 RP rolls you make, and you can easily make north of 100 RP rolls in a single game. That may not feel as sexy for Warriors, although it could mean the difference between having a couple of guys on an objective or not, but that makes a world of difference for more expensive models like LG, TP, Ds and Heavy Ds, TBs, etc. And naturally it's going to be a major boon whenever it means life or death for your Olord.

A brick of 20 with Imo? Nearly 500 points? I'm curious what the rest of your list would usually contain.

For me, RP is usually incidental to my success. I rely on small groups of warriors with crypteks, lots of vehicles, and scarabs.
When I try running large groups of warriors, I feel like I'm just giving my opponent a nice big target any of their units can shoot at with good effect. For the point cost especially, I've never been satisfied.
Do you run Ghost Arks as well?

 Fafnir13 wrote:
A brick of 20 with Imo? Nearly 500 points? I'm curious what the rest of your list would usually contain.

A lot of lists over the years, honestly. Almost always a Chronomotron with Imo. Often with a ResOrb Dlord that can hop in and out of that and some other units. Scarab Farm works well with it, as well as heavy AV 13 lists. Pretty much anything that will maximize on Imo's Night Fighting and lightning mechanics.

For me, RP is usually incidental to my success. I rely on small groups of warriors with crypteks, lots of vehicles, and scarabs.
When I try running large groups of warriors, I feel like I'm just giving my opponent a nice big target any of their units can shoot at with good effect. For the point cost especially, I've never been satisfied.
Do you run Ghost Arks as well?

Yeah, definitly on the Ghost Arcs. I've even run heavy foot lists with Imo that still contain one Ghost Arc in the back. Combining Ghost Arcs with RP Warriors can be amazing, really. I've had bricks that were statistically likely top pop back up to near full health after taking a nearly unit clearing amount of firepower. You basically funnel firepower into your Ghost Arcs as that's the only way to reliably take down the brick. This, in turn, diverts firepower away from ABs and your other AV 13 hulls.

Gunther wrote:
Just got the White dwarf:

Interesting that the Decurion shows how GW thinks the Necrons should be played.
"...Even the smallest Decurion is a significant strike force, with around 30 necrons within the reclamation legion and a lesser ancillary unit of five Deathmarks or Flayed ones - ideal for smaller missions, where overwhelming strength is neither required or appropriate.

So per GW, the correct way to play Necrons is to foot slog around in a horde infantry army because bringing serious firepower to a battle is inappropriate.

This to me just reads that GW feel it's innapropriate/unnessecary to use overwhelming strength in small games in general, not necessarily specifically Necrons.

So per GW, the correct way to play any army at small points is to foot slog around because bringing serious firepower is innapropriate.

I just noticed the Cryptek Codex is sold out. I wonder how long that took?

About 10 hours apparantly.

 ImAGeek wrote:
About 10 hours apparantly.

Nah it was gone around 10-11pm UK time, definitely before I went to bed So more like 3-4 hours

Ah maybe the 10 hours was UK and U.S. combined then. I was just going off the thread over in 40k General

Glad I didn't wait then. Looking forward to waiting to get it...

Gunther wrote:

Today, this golden bonus add a 5% chance to RP restricted to within 12" of OL. (1/6*2/6= 5.5%)

That math would be a bit off.

On your first roll you pass on a 5+, so that we don't care about. If you fail, you have a 1/4 shot of triggering the "re-roll 1's". So we end up with 1/4*2/6 = 8,3%

So not that much better, but a little at least

davethepak wrote:
We don't know what the random effects are.

Smart people could come up with random powers that are all good in a variety of situations, just maybe a bit ....different.

Of course, these are the same game designers that think I should get excited about relentless for my necron warriors that have no heavy weapons.

Regarding the ctan - T7 is worthless with a 4++ save.
It just is. In a world of wave serpents, tau missile launchers, grav amps, autocannon dreds, or heck, just plasma - a 4++ save is incredibly bad at 240 points.

Grav weapons are not good on a C'tan Shard since they have a - Armour Save. Plasma is also less effective against Shards than it is against every other monstrous critter in the game, I think* But where C'tan Shards really really show their stuff is in close combat against other Monstrous Creatures, who normally get 0 save against the Shard's AP2 attacks, while the Shard has a 4+ against theirs.

* Plasma vs. shard: 1/2 x 1/2 = 1/4
Plasma vs. wraithknight w/shimmershield: 1/3 x 2/3 = 2/9
Plasma vs. riptide with nova shield + stimulant injectors: 2/3 x 1/3 x 2/3 = 4/27
Plasma vs. carnifex: 2/3
Plasma vs. bloodthirster: 2/3 x 2/3 = 4/9

So plasma actually churns out more wounds against all of these, except for thr fully kitted-out riptide (who presumably will be taking damage from his nova shield if he keeps doing this).

The difference between a grav attack is much more ridiculous and stark, as the Shard has no armour AND an inv. save.

Grav vs. shard: 1/6 x 1/2 = 1/12
Grav vs. wraithknight w/shimmershield: 2/3 x 2/3 = 4/9
Grav vs. riptide with nova shield + stimulant injectors: 5/6 x 1/3 x 2/3 = 5/54
Plasma vs. carnifex: 5/6
Plasma vs. bloodthirster: 2/3 x 2/3 = 4/9

Yup 1 in 12 chance, that shard is sure going down to the grav onslaught.

This is no to say that Shards are good in the current incarnation, but saying that they have durability problems with respect to other monstrous critters is incorrect -- they are actually more resistent to damage than most. In close combat, in fact, they should beat just about every other monstrous critter, coming up about 50-50 with the wraithknight.

And Relentless obviously allows your Warriors to shoot and assault. They are capable of asssaulting you know, they should actually beat most things that aren't dedicated assault units.

Instead of shooting a shard with plasma or grav, one could also use readily available s7, such as tesla destructors, high yield missile pods or wave serpent shields that would work wonders against their 4++ save. But yeah, you are right in that weapons with few shots and good ap do not perform outstandingly against shards.

 Br00tal_Mclovin wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:
About 10 hours apparantly.

Nah it was gone around 10-11pm UK time, definitely before I went to bed So more like 3-4 hours

That is correct. 4 hours. That's how long it took.
I bought mine within 5 minutes of the pre-order opening (yes, I spent like 15mins frantically refreshing page, waiting for it to start )
Funny how pre-order section was updated before main page showed anything. My credit card was already charged and order confirmed before they even got the logo up on welcome screen


BTW, since GW is removing the pics of Cryptek Edition, I took the liberty to preserve it for the future generations

See: http://herrdexter.tumblr.com/post/108963977646/this-was-the-limited-edition-of-codex-necrons-for

 Herr Dexter wrote:

 Br00tal_Mclovin wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:
About 10 hours apparantly.

Nah it was gone around 10-11pm UK time, definitely before I went to bed So more like 3-4 hours

That is correct. 4 hours. That's how long it took.
I bought mine within 5 minutes of the pre-order opening (yes, I spent like 15mins frantically refreshing page, waiting for it to start )
Funny how pre-order section was updated before main page showed anything. My credit card was already charged and order confirmed before they even got the logo up on welcome screen


BTW, since GW is removing the pics of Cryptek Edition, I took the liberty to preserve it for the future generations

See: http://herrdexter.tumblr.com/post/108963977646/this-was-the-limited-edition-of-codex-necrons-for

I wasn't even aware, I was curious to see the Necron Codex cover, saw the Cryptek edition and thought 'I must have that'

Kinda wish I got the Datacards too...although I guess they would be more obtainable than the Cryptek Codex