Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Henker-Kind wrote:

Eyjio wrote:

Kangodo wrote:
@Hollis, the lowest HQ you can take is an Overlord.
They wouldn't let a Lord or Cryptek command a Reclamation Legion! Silly.

changemod wrote:

Kangodo wrote:
What I totally forgot is the insanity that is called "RP on Scarabs".

"It's nae use cap'n! They're buildin tha wee blighters quicker than we can shoot 'em doon!"

*Cut to Spyders frantically spinning smashed Scarabs back together to "reanimate" them*

So we have T3, W3 models with a 4+ RP and a 5+ save.
I am finally no longer afraid of Flamers! Woohoooooo

Scarabs have a 6+ save now. Not that anyone ever got anything other than cover saves, but it might be relevant some day.

That is quite important and will matter in CC!

Good thing Land Raiders don't punch back.

Eyjio wrote:
Scarabs have a 6+ save now. Not that anyone ever got anything other than cover saves, but it might be relevant some day.

Are you sure? Did not see that.

changemod wrote:
Isn't there the 1+ core detachment and 1 maximum per core detachment Royal Court to worry about?
Going over 10 formations is unlikely under a 5000 point game or so, so I'd be less worried about needing to put the cap in.

That's easy to do if I make it a Formation.
I make a selection-group for Auxiliary and increase the minimum by 1 for each Core, then I increase the maximum by 10 for each Core.

For Detachments we have the regular slots and I can set min/max for those, so I would have to create three new slots called 'Core', 'Auxiliary' and 'Command' where the min and max of the last two are determined by the amount of 'Core'-s you have.
I am not even sure if that is possible with the program, let alone the endless weeks it would take me.
But making it a Formation would only take me half an hour to an hour.

Let's hope I get the digital version Saturday-morning, I know how I am going to spend my weekend.
Expect it to be ready on Sunday or so.

All of this sounds exciting, lots of builds....although, I hope crons are not super powered.....I don't want to be the new eldar.

One note, on those wanting crypteks - if you want more than 3.....(yes, looking at the page right now, go up and find it).

Reclamation Legion 1+ - Core Fomation.
Royal court (0-1 PER Reclamation Legion). - Command Formation.
THEN you can take 1-10 Other (Auxiliary) Formations.

While you can take 10 formations of flayed ones/etc. If you want more than 3 crypteks,
(look at the page, before you say "I thought....")


So, if you want more than 3 Crypteks, they have a tax of a lot more....

Overally, happy with the book, but clearly, a few things need to be faq'ed.

The biggest disappointments for me, personally, are;
No 3+ save on ctan for normal dakka.
Fixing Ordnance effect on the monolith (being forced to snapshot secondary weapons).

I actually like the change made to Scarabs, I think their actually over all better now.

It's worth the 5 point increase to affect any toughness value and affect Knights.

Also, 6+ save , hey that's something.

OH, and yes, scarabs have 6+ save.
(looking at screen shot right now).

davethepak wrote:
I don't want to be the new eldar.

I think your fear is legitimate.

 MasterOfGaunts wrote:

davethepak wrote:
I don't want to be the new eldar.

I think your fear is legitimate.

I think it's pretty much assured at this point.

Let's not forget Exterminatus and what it does!

Relics: Feel less useful now, though Solar Thermasite is stronger now that we lack the 2+
Traits: These are fine, though I prefer the Codex-ones and I am curious about how they work with Zhandrekh.
Detachment: Still like it, the Codex also requires three Troops but gives a 4+ RP.
This Detachment could take a Cryptek on your important group and have a 4+ with rerolls on 1's.
Conclave of the Burning one: C'tan more expensive and Crypteks doubled in price. I don't see why I would want this now.. Sad :(
Zarathusa's Royal Decurion: Awesome! Too bad it does not have the "Replace Overlord with X, Y or Z" like the Codex has.
Anrakyr's Strategic Decurion: Not too bad.

Why would you not ever take the Decurion Detachment.

Having 4+ on like everything is huge.

Gimmicky Sautekh leaders list:

Combined Arms HQ's:

Zandrekh in 5 Sheildguard,
Cryptek with Veil in the Sheildguard,

Royal Court:

Imhotek hanging back with the troops, MSU Immortals.
Obyron in 10 Scytheguard,
Cryptek with Solar Pulse in the Scytheguard,
Orikan in either of the Lychguard units,
Szeras buffing the MSU Immortals.

Strategy: The small Shieldguard unit turn one deep strikes, then the large Scytheguard unit precision deep strikes within 12 of them and pops off the Solar Pulse, ready to start smashing things up.

At some point Imhotek calls in Flayed One reinforcements.

Kangodo wrote:
Let's not forget Exterminatus and what it does!

Relics: Feel less useful now, though Solar Thermasite is stronger now that we lack the 2+
Traits: These are fine, though I prefer the Codex-ones and I am curious about how they work with Zhandrekh.
Detachment: Still like it, the Codex also requires three Troops but gives a 4+ RP.
This Detachment could take a Cryptek on your important group and have a 4+ with rerolls on 1's.
Conclave of the Burning one: C'tan more expensive and Crypteks doubled in price. I don't see why I would want this now.. Sad :(
Zarathusa's Royal Decurion: Awesome! Too bad it does not have the "Replace Overlord with X, Y or Z" like the Codex has.
Anrakyr's Strategic Decurion: Not too bad.

I have to agree, the Mephrit detachment is not bad. The Solar Thermasite is quite good and almost a must have on a CCB lord. The god shackle is ok, but I just don't use C'Tan enough to bother with the formation. If I were to use the formation for kicks, I would take the god shackle obviously. The warscythe that gives precision strikes is pretty good as well, especially if you are afraid of the powerfist or other model that threatens to get through your AV 13 armor or low AP. Just focus your hits on the real threats so you don't have to rely on your 4++ to keep you alive. Would be nice if we still had a 2+. With the points saved from lowering the cost of CCBs, I can take all this extra expensive wargear and keep the same cost between codexes.

The other formations are ok, but you would have to use them in fairly high point games.

This is the "base" of my Decurion Army

1 Bargelord w/ Warscythe, Phylactery, 4+ Invulnerable

10 Warriors w/ Ghost Ark

10 Warriors w/ out

5 Immortals w/ Night Scythe

6 Tomb Blades w/ Shield Vane, Nebuloscope

6 Tomb Blades w/ Shield Vane , NebuloScope

6 Tom Blades w/ Shield Vane
Nebuloscope

Hollismason wrote:
Why would you not ever take the Decurion Detachment.

Having 4+ on like everything is huge.

At the moment, the only reason I see for not taking it is price. Baseline, no upgrades, it's somewhere around 500 points for the Reclamation Legion. By the time you upgrade your Overlord, grab some Scythes/Ghost Arks, fill out the squads with more dudes, and upgrade your Tomb Blades, we're probably closer to ~700-900. That's not too bad, but then if you're playing in a 1500 point game, that only leaves room for one or two other formations (depending on which ones you're bringing). It's not like people are going to have the room to spam a good Reclamation Legion AND have 5 copies of the Canoptek Harvest formation, it adds up pretty quick.

I'm sure there'll be the cheese lists, though.

 ClassicCarraway wrote:

changemod wrote:

 ClassicCarraway wrote:

 Anpu-adom wrote:
I really seeing more tournaments going to 1500 points... not only because of this but also because of Adamantium Lance.

heck, I see pick up games going 1250 max where Necrons are invovled.

Necron Player: "Hey, I see you brought your (insert army here), want to get a game in?"
Other Player: "Uh, suuure....I only brought about 1250 points worth (while nudging the other box of minis under a table). You good with that?"

You do realise though that reanimation is even more powerful in small points games where every saved model is that many more points?

Oh, and Scarab Farms add 60 points to the table per turn when in range, if the Cron player is going that way.

But the Reclaimation Legion buy-in eats up a significant portion of that, does it not?

The minimum costs are 80pts for the OL, 85 pts for immortals, 260pts for warriors and 48 pts for the tomb blades. So 473 before upgrades.

The Core is 479 base and they are all units you'd want to take anyway.
Unless you want to take a CAD so you only need three Troops, but both the Mephrit and Codex-benefits are too good for that.

Kangodo wrote:
The Core is 479 base and they are all units you'd want to take anyway.
Unless you want to take a CAD so you only need three Troops, but both the Mephrit and Codex-benefits are too good for that.

I actually think we might see people take Formations without the Decurion. If you want to spam Destroyers, it's probably more economical to just take the Destroyer Cult 3+ times rather than paying for the Reclamation Legion, which doesn't really synergize with Destroyers much at all.

Hollismason wrote:
Why would you not ever take the Decurion Detachment.

Having 4+ on like everything is huge.

The same reason I don't take grav centurions; I don't want to be a jerk.

That is my biggest fear, I don't want a cheese codex. I want a good solid codex, that supports a lot of competitive* builds.


Now, I think the decurion is kind of cool, AND has a lot of cool bonuses - but I don't want it to be silly OP.

(* By competitive I mean player skill matters more than some cheesy combo and it does well in most situations as opposed to either folding like a paper napkin or erasing another player in one turn).

I'm kinda worried all of your necrons might be a little too good now :[

T5 wraiths and FNP that works against instant death is no fair:[[[

That is, if we are allowed to take Auxiliary-Formations on their own.
I hate how they cut that part out of the scan.

I cannot wait for the Codex to arrive!

Bargelord w/ Warscythe, Phylactery, 4+ Save

10 Warriors

10 Warriors w/ Ghost Ark

5 Immortals w/ Night Scythe

(770)

x 5 Tomb Blades ( Shield Vain, Nebuloscope)

x 5 Tomb Blades (Shield Vane
, Nebuloscope)


Canoptek Wraith Formation
3 Wraiths
1 Spyder w/ Particle and Gloom
3 Scarabs
261

Canoptek Wraith Formation
3 Wraiths
1 Spyder w/ Particle And Glood
3 Scarabs
261

Death Formation
2 Doom Scythes
320

1832

Is what's rolling around in my head already, everything in the army has a 4++.

Requizen wrote:

Kangodo wrote:
The Core is 479 base and they are all units you'd want to take anyway.
Unless you want to take a CAD so you only need three Troops, but both the Mephrit and Codex-benefits are too good for that.

I actually think we might see people take Formations without the Decurion. If you want to spam Destroyers, it's probably more economical to just take the Destroyer Cult 3+ times rather than paying for the Reclamation Legion, which doesn't really synergize with Destroyers much at all.

One Destroyer Cult should suffice: That's 18 regular and 3 heavy destroyers max, and if you need more heavies you can take them from the CAD's heavy support slots.

More than that and you start taking increasingly useless Destroyer Lord taxes.

Wraiths being able to get a 3+ then a 4++ RP is insanely to good to not want take the Decurion detachments, especially since it comes with Tomb Blades. 110 point tax to ensure that your Wraiths make it into combat and you've still got multiple small MSU to go grab Objectives if you need to. Yeah, okay.

Are you really going to start shooting the Tomb Spyders when Wraiths are closing in on you? Like seriously, that's damned if you do damned if you don't choice.

Yes, I am going fire at this T7 which probably has Cover, comes with a 3+ and has a 4++, and not shoot these 6 Wraiths in front of it.

Hollismason wrote:
Wraiths being able to get a 3+ then a 4++ RP is insanely to good to not take.

Especially with T5. Nids are gonna have a hard time taking all of these buggers down.

 Wilson wrote:

Hollismason wrote:
Wraiths being able to get a 3+ then a 4++ RP is insanely to good to not take.

Especially with T5. Nids are gonna have a hard time taking all of these buggers down.

Meh tar pit them like the good nids they are

 Wilson wrote:
I'm kinda worried all of your necrons might be a little too good now :[

T5 wraiths and FNP that works against instant death is no fair:[[[

It's ok, us Tyranid players have Flyrants and FMC's to deal with Wraiths. Wraith logic - No CC = no party Haywire Templates automatically fry them to bitz

But yes, Necrons are looking to be very strong.

 Desubot wrote:

 Wilson wrote:

Hollismason wrote:
Wraiths being able to get a 3+ then a 4++ RP is insanely to good to not take.

Especially with T5. Nids are gonna have a hard time taking all of these buggers down.

Meh tar pit them like the good nids they are

Str 6 with 3 attacks and WS 4... they will chew through Gants pretty easy.

nids are going to have a hard time with the ctan as well (we might not see too many of those).

Also, Wraiths are beasts and fly over/through anything.
THEY chose what they attack - it would take quite the foolish player to let their wraiths get tarpitted.

one saving grace; if someone is running the formation and granting them RP....Kill the spyder.

I don't want to be cheese - I have zero problems with powerful combos that can be countered with smart play (as opposed to luck).

 Frozocrone wrote:

 Wilson wrote:
I'm kinda worried all of your necrons might be a little too good now :[

T5 wraiths and FNP that works against instant death is no fair:[[[

It's ok, us Tyranid players have Flyrants and FMC's to deal with Wraiths. Wraith logic - No CC = no party Haywire Templates automatically fry them to bitz

But yes, Necrons are looking to be very strong.

What do Haywire Templates do against T5 W2 Beasts with 3++?

It's actually like taking a min scarab farm and a wraith wing.

1 Cryptek
3 Wraiths
3 Scarabs
1 Spyder
Minimum 236 points

Take that twice

6 Wraiths
6 Scarabs
2 Spyders

All of it has Reanimation 4++ and your producing two Scarab bases a turn.

So on turn 1

6 Wraiths
8 Scarabs
2 Spyders

and turn 2 which is when they'll charge you

10 Scarabs
6 Wraiths
2 Spyders

What are you going to do charge them? You get close with a tarpit the Scarabs can charge the unit the Tomb Spyders going to run up and start adding bases to it. The restriction on Combat is apparently gone and you've gotta chew through a unit with a 4+ Reanimation protocol that works on every wound the base has.

It's ridiculously overpowered.

Requizen wrote:

 Frozocrone wrote:

 Wilson wrote:
I'm kinda worried all of your necrons might be a little too good now :[

T5 wraiths and FNP that works against instant death is no fair:[[[

It's ok, us Tyranid players have Flyrants and FMC's to deal with Wraiths. Wraith logic - No CC = no party Haywire Templates automatically fry them to bitz

But yes, Necrons are looking to be very strong.

What do Haywire Templates do against T5 W2 Beasts with 3++?

They be robots, instant short circuit Obviously a smart Tyranid player uses both sets of Devourers on the Wraiths if targetting them