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 Wilson wrote:
Just so I understand, can you take the mephrit dynasty detachment with;

3 destroyer lords

3X 10 warriors
3x night scythe

6 wraiths
6 wraiths
6 wraiths

+

The wraith/spyder/scarsb formation from the Duran duran detachment thing?

( that's not intended as a good list, just an example )

Hey man - I think you can; but you will not get the +1 to RP bonus (aka the command benefits from the decurion detachement)

Do you need to buy a unit with Nightscythes or can you just buy them separate?

They're regular FA choices, so if you run a CAD or allied detachment you can get 'em separate.

 Dr. Delorean wrote:
Szeras is also (now) the only way to get an Eldritch Lance, so that's something.

As a DE player, trust me - it's not worth it.

I rather face 24 wraiths than 18 with RP.
I guess it boils down to how fast your army can find and kill tomb spyders (pretty sure necron player will not leave them in the open)

After catching up with the latest rumors, all I can say is MWUAHAHAHAHA!

Looking forward to Saturday

Bear in mind Wilson's example is list is 1830 bare bones and doesn't include the canoptek formation.

People keep talking about all of this being horribly broken. I've been messing around with lists since most of this broke and you really can't fit all this broken stuff people are discussing into single lists.

Minimum points for a Reformation legion is 489 (assuming overlord is 90pts). That's with nothing on any unit. So you can then at best fit in 5 of the canoptek formations at their minimum (230). That would give you 15 Wraiths, 15 scarab swarms and 5 spiders and no ranged support for the list that made wraithwing so good in the previous codex and less wraiths.

Bottom line less chicken little. There are solid aspects to the codex we've seen but they cost when it comes to building a solid army.

Ffyllotek wrote:
I am a tad confused how someone uses the formations in a non-Decurion army.

My rule book says I can take two types of detachment, a Combined Arms Detachment or an Allied Detachment. These are the only battle-forged choices available.

Both CAD and Allied are made up of numbers of slots of HQ, Tr, FA, HS, El, LoW or Fortifications.

So at no point can I fit formations into the two choices.

Presumably in order to do so I need to add special detachments. So I could have a CAD, an allied, a Decurion or a special detachment. Each special detachment can be any one Codex:Necrons formation.

Is this right?

You can take formations in a Battle forged army (though I don't know yet if the Decurion formations are exclusive to the decurion detachment or not). Formations are a type of detachment and a Battle-forged army is simply an army made up entirely of detachments. The Combined arms and Allied detachments are the only ones shown in the BRB and can be used by anyone, but they are not the only detachments allowed in a Battle-forged army.

It took me a few reads to wrap my head around that when I first got the rule book.

 docdoom77 wrote:

Ffyllotek wrote:
I am a tad confused how someone uses the formations in a non-Decurion army.

My rule book says I can take two types of detachment, a Combined Arms Detachment or an Allied Detachment. These are the only battle-forged choices available.

Both CAD and Allied are made up of numbers of slots of HQ, Tr, FA, HS, El, LoW or Fortifications.

So at no point can I fit formations into the two choices.

Presumably in order to do so I need to add special detachments. So I could have a CAD, an allied, a Decurion or a special detachment. Each special detachment can be any one Codex:Necrons formation.

Is this right?

You can take formations in a Battle forged army (though I don't know yet if the Decurion formations are exclusive to the decurion detachment or not). Formations are a type of detachment and a Battle-forged army is simply an army made up entirely of detachments. The Combined arms and Allied detachments are the only ones shown in the BRB and can be used by anyone, but they are not the only detachments allowed in a Battle-forged army.

It took me a few reads to wrap my head around that when I first got the rule book.

I have a post on my blog about this subject with a few examples, if it helps.


http://changemodomega.tumblr.com/post/108189485293/quick-rundown-of-how-using-ally-rules-to-expand

I see a lot of confusion as to how armies are built in the era of 7th edition.

Forget FOC
Forget 'Source'

It is detachments... and formations fit within detachments.

 Anpu-adom wrote:
I see a lot of confusion as to how armies are built in the era of 7th edition.

Forget FOC
Forget 'Source'

It is detachments... and formations fit within detachments.

Aren't formations separate entities that can be taken alongside detachments? Or do they count as both formations and detachments when they are taken standalone?

Decurion is, so far, the only Detachment that contains Formations

Kangodo wrote:
Decurion is, so far, the only Detachment that contains Formations

Not true at all. Formations are Detachments, and there are Formations made up of Formations.

If you look at the Exterminatus book, there's the Guardians of Perdita Formation. It's made up of one Conclave of the Burning One, one Zarathusa's Royal Decurion, and one Anrakyr's Strategic Decurion. It's a Detachment made up of those 3 Formations.

The Necron Decurion is exactly the same, except you have freedom to decide which options to include.

Yes, we have Formations made up out of Formations.
But I was talking about pure Detachments.

Requizen wrote:

Kangodo wrote:
Decurion is, so far, the only Detachment that contains Formations

Not true at all. Formations are Detachments, and there are Formations made up of Formations.

If you look at the Exterminatus book, there's the Guardians of Perdita Formation. It's made up of one Conclave of the Burning One, one Zarathusa's Royal Decurion, and one Anrakyr's Strategic Decurion. It's a Detachment made up of those 3 Formations.

The Necron Decurion is exactly the same, except you have freedom to decide which options to include.

Yup. Pg 121 of the BRB: "Formations are a special type of detachment..."

:: Sigh ::

Everything is a detachment. A formation is a pure detachment. Just give up on please on trying to organize them seperately. It's what leads to people's confusion....

So I could field a battle forged Necron army (with a big enough points limit as):

CAD1 Primary - Warlord (ObSec) Necron
Allied (ObSec) Tau
CAD2 (ObSec) Necron
Special 1: Anrakyr's Decurion
Special 2: Necron Decurion (Resurgence Legion, Destroyer Cult, Destroyer Cult, Destroyer Cult, Canotek formation)
Special 3: Destroyer Cult
Special 4: Mephrit Decurion
Special 5: Royal Decurion
Special 6: Necron Decurion (Resurgence Legion)
Special 7: Resurgence Legion

Ten detachments.

I think that covers about every combination...

GW needs to rework these rules.

Make them more streamlined.

 Hulksmash wrote:
:: Sigh ::

Everything is a detachment. A formation is a pure detachment. Just give up on please on trying to organize them seperately. It's what leads to people's confusion....

If its confusing now, just wait til you're 4 beers into a sixer trying to remember which unit is part of which detachment and gets the benefit of what.

This isn't a criticism against the new codex rumors, just a criticism of the way the game is going in general. It used to be enough to unlock the cool rules with a certain charcter or piece of wargear. Now we are looking at 3 - 12 units to do so. If its possible to take more than 1 "Decurion", I can see this becoming a big accounting headache. But maybe I'm just a dummy.

So I can take the mephrit ctan fornation and put the god shackel in there? Because this formation counts as mephrit detachment and can choose relics from the mephrit dynastie. Now i cann add this detachment (formation) in my decurion army. Question is, can i take codex equipment on the cryptecs also, or only mephrit eq?

See Ffyllotek's post, as it sums up my concerns about keeping track of all this stuff.

Ffyllotek wrote:
So I could field a battle forged Necron army (with a big enough points limit as):

CAD1 Primary - Warlord (ObSec) Necron
Allied (ObSec) Tau
CAD2 (ObSec) Necron
Special 1: Anrakyr's Decurion
Special 2: Necron Decurion (Resurgence Legion, Destroyer Cult, Destroyer Cult, Destroyer Cult, Canotek formation)
Special 3: Destroyer Cult
Special 4: Mephrit Decurion
Special 5: Royal Decurion
Special 6: Necron Decurion (Resurgence Legion)
Special 7: Resurgence Legion

Ten detachments.

I think that covers about every combination...

As I read it, yes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

stormcraft wrote:
So I can take the mephrit ctan fornation and put the god shackel in there? Because this formation counts as mephrit detachment and can choose relics from the mephrit dynastie. Now i cann add this detachment (formation) in my decurion army. Question is, can i take codex equipment on the cryptecs also, or only mephrit eq?

The crytek from a Mephrit detachment can take the Mephrit relics, but the normal archo-whatevers from the codex. He cannot take the relics (or whatever the equivalent is) from the codex.

I see no reason why he couldn't use his God Shackle on a C'tan from another detachment... but I haven't reviewed those rules closely in a few days.

Kangodo wrote:
Yes, we have Formations made up out of Formations.
But I was talking about pure Detachments.

That terminology is wrong. The "pure Detachment" you're talking about, I assume you mean like CAD or Mephrit Dynasty or the codex-specific ones, is a Force Organization Chart, or FOC.

A FOC is a type of Detachment.
A Formation is a type of Detachment.
Specific things like a Knight "Detachment" is a type of Detachment.
The Decurion is a Detachment (though further broken down into Formations that could be taken as their own Detachments if you so desired).

Being Battle Forged is just saying "every model on the table is part of a Detachment". If you have a model on the table that is not part of a Detachment, you're Unbound. Simple as that.

 jasper76 wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:
:: Sigh ::

Everything is a detachment. A formation is a pure detachment. Just give up on please on trying to organize them seperately. It's what leads to people's confusion....

If its confusing now, just wait til you're 4 beers into a sixer trying to remember which unit is part of which detachment and gets the benefit of what.

This isn't a criticism against the new codex rumors, just a criticism of the way the game is going in general. It used to be enough to unlock the cool rules with a certain charcter or piece of wargear. Now we are looking at 3 - 12 units to do so. If its possible to take more than 1 "Decurion", I can see this becoming a big accounting headache. But maybe I'm just a dummy.

I mean sure, if you're playing Apocalypse I guess. But honestly at the 1000-2000 point range that most people play at you can't get more than a few detachments unless you're doing stupid things like Coteaz + Assassin + LotD + all the smallest formations you can think of. Most people's lists are one main detachment with an Allied and/or single Formation.

Yes, in the hypothetical, if you were playing 5000 points with your opponent and you brought 8 Detachments it might get confusing. But come on, be serious now.

I was being serious, but I do acknowledge in lower points game it won't be an issue.

In my gaming group, we sometimes play 2K, but its usually 2.5K or higher, which is where I can see this complication coming in to play. It already does to some degree in games I've played against new Orks and with Tyranids.

 Henker-Kind wrote:

 Wilson wrote:
Just so I understand, can you take the mephrit dynasty detachment with;

3 destroyer lords

3X 10 warriors
3x night scythe

6 wraiths
6 wraiths
6 wraiths

+

The wraith/spyder/scarsb formation from the Duran duran detachment thing?

( that's not intended as a good list, just an example )

Hey man - I think you can; but you will not get the +1 to RP bonus (aka the command benefits from the decurion detachement)

Damn. Thanks man! That's crazy good.

edit

 Wilson wrote:

 Henker-Kind wrote:

 Wilson wrote:
Just so I understand, can you take the mephrit dynasty detachment with;

3 destroyer lords

3X 10 warriors
3x night scythe

6 wraiths
6 wraiths
6 wraiths

+

The wraith/spyder/scarsb formation from the Duran duran detachment thing?

( that's not intended as a good list, just an example )

Hey man - I think you can; but you will not get the +1 to RP bonus (aka the command benefits from the decurion detachement)

Damn. Thanks man! That's crazy good.

Well there is one big problem with that list.

It involves HQ slots.

Also, keep in mind that Destroyer Lords with Wraiths isn't a thing anymore.

Requizen wrote:
Also, keep in mind that Destroyer Lords with Wraiths isn't a thing anymore.

Why not?
He's there to soak up wounds.

He can only move 6" in the movement phase now that he's Jet Pack Infantry, so he'll slow the Wraith down. Of course, if you don't mind that, there's nothing stopping you.