Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

As far as Orks are concerned is there any such thing as "evil". I know the Evil Sunz have it in the name and the word is tossed around a lot in ork kultur. But is it just for intimidation purposes or can orks actually consider something (Grotsnik, a badmek, Yarrick's "bale eye" for instance) evil by their own standards ?

Also for that matter would evil even have a negative connotation in Ork society to begin with ?

The Imperial Answer wrote:
As far as Orks are concerned is there any such thing as "evil". I know the Evil Sunz have it in the name and the word is tossed around a lot in ork kultur. But is it just for intimidation purposes or can orks actually consider something (Grotsnik, a badmek, Yarrick's "bale eye" for instance) evil by their own standards ?

Also for that matter would evil even have a negative connotation in Ork society to begin with ?

I'm sure that even the works consider Kaos to be evil.

Yes, Orks do have a concept of Evil.

Evil is something that kills you without a fight.

The moniker Evil Sunz comes from the scary face on their war banner that represents Mork. It's turning the power of Mork's dark side (the sneaky bit) on the enemy and neutering its power by sticking it on a massive loud buggy that nobody can fail to hear coming.

The Imperial Answer wrote:
As far as Orks are concerned is there any such thing as "evil". I know the Evil Sunz have it in the name and the word is tossed around a lot in ork kultur. But is it just for intimidation purposes or can orks actually consider something (Grotsnik, a badmek, Yarrick's "bale eye" for instance) evil by their own standards ?

Also for that matter would evil even have a negative connotation in Ork society to begin with ?

The Orks are better understood from the viewpoint of Aristotle, rather than the black and white rules-based morality of Christianity.

Goodness is what is Orky- fighin' and winnin'. Lootin. Shootin' an choppin.

To live a good Ork life, one must do these things. There aren't acts that are evil to Orks or forces that are evil... what orks see as bad is what is un-Orky.

I think its da sneaky gits that scare da orks tha bein shanked whilst not bein able ta krump eads.

Orks use the concept of "Proppa".
Fightin', shootin' zoomin' around in trukks and Being Green are Proppa.
Runnin' away, hidin', makin' sweet music are all not-proppa.

Some not-proppa behaviour can be accepted (see: mad-boyz, odd-boyz, 'umie-lovin' gitz/Blud Axes)

Some not-proppa behaviour is unacceptable (pacifism, spending more time paintin' your trukk than zoomin' around in it, )

Things like "Evil Sunz" are translations of the Ork language, and put Human emotions onto Ork concepts (which is never going to work well). Evil Sunz might translate better as "Nasty/Cruel/Vicious". This is not a "bad" or "evil" thing for Orks.

I've always thought that the orks would only consider a handful of things evil, like final exam week, having in-laws over for the holidays only to be snowed in (this only being evil until the krumpin starts), being put in a straight jacket in a small white washed cell, and the dentist yanking teeth.

I think that orks are aware of behavior that humans might label as 'evil', but orks simply focus on labeling the behavior. Even when they use labels like "evil" or "bad", I think that they aren't being morally prescriptive (in the sense that 'good' orks don't do 'evil' things).

A Dok, who is entirely too curious about what bits are inside his patients, and goes rummaging around, is "Bad". He isn't indifferent to the suffering of others, but actually might enjoy it or prolong it. He also inflicts deliberate, meticulous, painful suffering for no gain to his patient, but only for his own amusement/edification. Note that the orks don't actually consider this morally reprehensible, but simply a character trait to be aware of, such as a touchy ork who might punch you for no good reason.

An ork can have a volcanic temper, like Ghaz, and seldom go through the day without administering a good beating. Again, this is viewed as being angry and violent, but without any real moral judgement. It's just something to be aware of.

An ork can be exceptionally conniving and cunning, always looking for ways to take the advantage. He might be described as an 'evil git', but again, this doesn't carry much in the way of condemnation, but is simply a convenient label for his behavior.

Then you have things which are definitely 'un-orky' and unnerving to orks, such as daemons and tyranids. These things are definitely seen as unnatural and abhorrent, but I don't see that the orks have a view of them as 'morally wrong'.

So, I think that an ork might well use a word like 'evil', and even possibly label some of the same things as 'evil' that humans might call 'evil', but I think that they lack an overarching concept of 'Evil' distinct from many other things. I think they simply use it interchangeably with words like 'cruel', 'sneaky', 'violent', 'scary', etc.

What orks consider evil...

Peace and sobriety.

To Orks, I figure that the best analogy for their use of the word "Evil" or "Bad" would be our uses of the word "Bastard" and the like.

It would be something they would call others who don't play "fair" as they see the world, insane they might be to us. The kinds of folk an Ork would wag their finger at for being "tricksy".

I mean this is the same culture that uses words like "Killy" or "Shooty" as a respectful term, or like we would use "Awesome".

Well, remember that awesome has the same root as awful...

I think the Ork psyche is supremely self confident and well adjusted. I generally think that orks would never even consider the thoughts of someone who isn't an Ork. The word evil requires some sort of moral compass, of which the Ork has none, or some kind of reflective thinking on what is good or evil.

In a society where might is right and strength is king there is no room for good and bad.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
To Orks, I figure that the best analogy for their use of the word "Evil" or "Bad" would be our uses of the word "Bastard" and the like.

It would be something they would call others who don't play "fair" as they see the world, insane they might be to us. The kinds of folk an Ork would wag their finger at for being "tricksy".

I mean this is the same culture that uses words like "Killy" or "Shooty" as a respectful term, or like we would use "Awesome".

We should also be careful in defining sneaky. I'd proffer they're fine with some excellent tactics (especially if their opponents are on the receiving end). But sneaky as in tactics that don't involve a lot of BOOM would be bad: aka a lone assassin taking out a boss vs. a rival boss ripping the other's head off to the sound of gunfire.

Orks dub certain things as unorky and shun those they see as unorky, but far as I can tell the only times you'd really see an Ork get morally worked up over something where they'd kill you on moral principal (instead of either a personal vendetta, thinly veiled excuse, or practical reasons) are religious matters. From what I recall from my observations, at least.

4th ed ork Codex implies that orks regard tau as evil, since they don't fight fair (Orks know what is up in the game)

Ork morality is might makes right, so the mightiest are the most just, making the weakest the most evil. Grots are so oppressed because A) Orks can do it and B) they are incredibly weak and therefore "evil" making anything they receive punishment for their supposed misdeeds.

I figure evil to an ork is to see death coming and not being allowed to fight it.
To be helpless and killed out of hand, no flash, no bang, just dead.

Or even worse, to be trapped and helpless not allowed to fight (prison or restraints would be nasty).
Sensory deprivation would be out and out torture.

I think the other races and their psi users would be scary unlike a pra-pah blasting weird-boy.

Funny, the DE would be good at this but could they feed off of the "suffering" of an ork by not letting him feel anything?

Orcdom evil = boredom.

 Talizvar wrote:
Funny, the DE would be good at this but could they feed off of the "suffering" of an ork by not letting him feel anything?

yeah, this. :]

To Orks good is:
Fightin' an' winnin', crumpin' stuff, and goin' fasta. All things Orky.
Evil would be:
Not fightin' and winnin' (e.g. exterminatus, where's the fun in that?), delicate handling, and health and safety.

I once worked with a man who had an Orky philosophy of life. (Actual Quote:"I get to do my 3 favorite things this weekend. Tractor pulling, drinking and fething.")(He didn't use fething though.)

So extrapolating from him, evil was whatever threatened to take his Dakka away, whether it be weapons, speed or freedom.

IMO. The only thing Orks see as evil is a person, or a group of people which will keep them from fighting. Which will result in, a lot of fighting..