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 Konrax wrote:

SGTPozy wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

LordBlades wrote:

 Konrax wrote:


Wraithknights, Dreadknights need help making sure they don't get tarpitted.

... And the Riptide doesn't?

Those other units often move up and are much more easy to reach to tarpit.

Riptides sit at the back of the table blasting away.

Much harder to get to, much harder to survive to get to tarpit.

This is what baffles me when people say this; how big is your table that a Riptide can stay really far away? Do you foot slog everything or something?

Anyway, I've never encountered someone in a casual game who does that as most people move them rather close to the enemy.

SGTPozy wrote:

 Konrax wrote:


Clearly your a Tau fanboi who is extremely defensive about a unit that you clearly abuse to win games to make you feel better about your life.

I gave many examples including experiences when facing off against Tau yet you label me as a Tau hater.

I use 1 every now and then, so no I do not 'abuse' units to win. I have never, and will never, spam units to win as I win with skill.

I label you as a Tau hater as you clearly are! Tau cannot have nice things in your eyes just because they pay differently to the other armies.

If you have bad experiences then the likelihood is that you suck at the game.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Deshkar wrote:


Mmmh, it's a purchased upgrade (3.5 meltas), not sure if you realised that. Indifferent about it because it just makes the Riptide even more expensive. I would ignore the Riptide who has it.

Yeah it is expensive but everyone else complains about it.

I am trying to make a point that a lone single unit is really my only issue with the Tau codex, and that nothing in my codex is even comparable.

More survivability and mobility than Abbadon, better firepower than Vindicator and Defiler combined, needs little / no support, ultra long range.

Yet you attack people for pointing this stuff out, and then say they suck at playing a dice game when it is blatantly apparent that these things I pointed out make the Riptide have amazing value for its points cost.

I am sorry for calling you a Tau fanboi, because you are so much worse than that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

SGTPozy wrote:

 Konrax wrote:

SGTPozy wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

LordBlades wrote:

 Konrax wrote:


Wraithknights, Dreadknights need help making sure they don't get tarpitted.

... And the Riptide doesn't?

Those other units often move up and are much more easy to reach to tarpit.

Riptides sit at the back of the table blasting away.

Much harder to get to, much harder to survive to get to tarpit.

This is what baffles me when people say this; how big is your table that a Riptide can stay really far away? Do you foot slog everything or something?

Anyway, I've never encountered someone in a casual game who does that as most people move them rather close to the enemy.

Standard size table. If I rush directly in a straight line it is still 3+ feet I need to get to at least to make it there. Even using transports it will take 2-3 turns before assault is even possible.

Out of curiosity, the "better firepower than a vindicator and defiler combined"... care to justify that for me.

So we're looking one Str 10 AP1 pie plate, one Str 8 AP3 Pie Plate, a twinlinked lascannon and i think something flame related from the chaos side there?

Compared to EITHER 3 Str 7 shots or 1 pie plate of upto Str 9 AP2, but has gets hot. All at worse BS than your comparative units. (plus 2 plasma shots twinlinked if you're in range)

I get the Riptide is potent, but that example was just wrong.

Either way I gave my opinion on the subject.

I really don't want to see anything change with the Tau codex, just a price increase on Riptides to bring them in line with their value.

The CSM codex really isn't as bad as you're saying. Abuse Imperial Armour, the Helbrute formation, Belakor and Daemon allies like everyone else does.

Yeah, the Riptide is powerful and the IA could use a price increase but ither than that it is balanced.

He's not as survivable or mobile as Abaddon... In a Land Raider!

I am a Tau fan as their fluff and aesthetics are awesome!

 Melcavuk wrote:
Out of curiosity, the "better firepower than a vindicator and defiler combined"... care to justify that for me.

So we're looking one Str 10 AP1 pie plate, one Str 8 AP3 Pie Plate, a twinlinked lascannon and i think something flame related from the chaos side there?

Compared to EITHER 3 Str 7 shots or 1 pie plate of upto Str 9 AP2, but has gets hot. All at worse BS than your comparative units. (plus 2 plasma shots twinlinked if you're in range)

I get the Riptide is potent, but that example was just wrong.

Defiler comes with TL Auto cannon stock.

s8 ap3 LB at BS 3 and 72 inch range (much weaker than s9 ap2) same range and BS stats.

Vindicator needs to be within 24 to fire a "comparable" weapon which is actually s10 ap2, if taken with Demonic possession it is also BS3.

So really you have the range of a Defiler, the kill power of a vindicator (minus 1 strength), with T6 and 5 wounds and a 2+ save and an invlun save.

Sound OP as gak to me for 195 points.

To clarify.

Str 9 AP2, gets hot, if successfully overcharged on a 3+ otherwise taking a wound. So you're looking at super gets hot, followed by gets hot, followed by BS3 for that blast. Also 185.

Gosh even better at 185 then.

Honestly if it gets hot, there is a 2+ save.

It is different than say a marine at 30pts using a plasma gun who will die if they fail their gets hot save 100% of the time.

Why do people always want to compare Tau with 'bad' codices? They are compared to CSM and BA and people are surprised that Tau win. CSM have their strengths through formations and allies - same as for BA - but Tau don't really have other (yet).

Compare your CSM or BA to SM or SW and then complain about those armies; give Tau a break.

If it gets hot it also doesnt fire, which is the main drawback, taking the wound is like 1/36 chance.

So yes it can do a Str 9 AP2 large blast.

If it does its nova charge
If it doesnt get hot.

However this also drops its invul save back to a 5+ (nova charging the gun, not the shield).

I don't have problems with either of those Codex's.

I admit the Chaos codex is weak, but there is a reason why people rank Tau as either the #1-2 Codex in the game right now.

Along with that Eldar Waveserpent spam, which imho also needs to be adjusted with a nerf or point increase.

What's the reason? Anyway, Tau are the 5th best codex.

Given this thread is 31 pages long now, I think you can find your answers by reviewing the contents of it.

 Konrax wrote:
I don't have problems with either of those Codex's.

I admit the Chaos codex is weak, but there is a reason why people rank Tau as either the #1-2 Codex in the game right now.

Along with that Eldar Waveserpent spam, which imho also needs to be adjusted with a nerf or point increase.

What 'people'? Most opinionsI've read have Eldar, Daemons, Necrons and Space Marines abive Tau.

 Konrax wrote:
Given this thread is 31 pages long now, I think you can find your answers by reviewing the contents of it.

That's just people complaining because they can.

As the guy above me says, Tau are not 1st or 2nd as you claim. You are just a Tau hater.

 Konrax wrote:
I don't have problems with either of those Codex's.

I admit the Chaos codex is weak, but there is a reason why people rank Tau as either the #1-2 Codex in the game right now.

Along with that Eldar Waveserpent spam, which imho also needs to be adjusted with a nerf or point increase.

Right now?

Tau dropped back down to upper mid tier after edition change. im pretty sure the top 2 codexes atm are eldar and codex:grav

The thread on "how to fix waveserpents" is at 7 pages compared to "how to fix tau".

MercenStein wrote:
Eldar>Tau>IoM>Necron>Nids>Chaos>Orks

 Xenomancers wrote:
Eldar>Tau>IOM> everything else.

JuniorRS13 wrote:

MercenStein wrote:
Eldar>Tau>IoM>Necron>Nids>Chaos>Orks

This. Although I might flip flop orks and chaos on certain days.

If we broke down IOM though, Knights would be first.

Rank 3

 total0 wrote:
1 imperium of man
2 eldars
3 tau
4 chaos
5 necrons
6 orks
7 nids

Taken from a recent post about army strength.

You realize IMO is massive right? and contain multiple lists that go up and down in ranks? several of which would just dominate at least the top 3 before tau.

You have 4 people's opinions and here we have 3 saying that Tau are 5th... You don't really have enough evidence to support your statement.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Desubot wrote:
You realize IMO is massive right? and contain multiple lists that go up and down in ranks? several of which would just dominate at least the top 3 before tau.

This 100%

 Melcavuk wrote:
If it gets hot it also doesnt fire, which is the main drawback, taking the wound is like 1/36 chance.

So yes it can do a Str 9 AP2 large blast.

If it does its nova charge
If it doesnt get hot.

However this also drops its invul save back to a 5+ (nova charging the gun, not the shield).

If it gets hot you missed anyways.

 total0 wrote:
1 imperium of man
2 eldars
3 tau
4 chaos
5 necrons
6 orks
7 nids

Taken from a recent post about army strength.

Maybe in a world where numbers actually functioned properly you would see based on this small sample size of 7 people, more than 50% would agree with me, which im not counted in this data.

With me it would be 5/8 which would be 62.5% in favour of my statement based on a recent opinion poll.

But hey forget the math and throw it out the window, I am still wrong despite evidence provided even if it is opinion to reinforce a question that has no non-opinion based answer.

Based on everything I've seen here, Tau is perfectly balanced in every way possible based on Tau Math. (TM)

 Konrax wrote:
Maybe in a world where numbers actually functioned properly you would see based on this small sample size of 7 people, more than 50% would agree with me, which im not counted in this data.

With me it would be 5/8 which would be 62.5% in favour of my statement based on a recent opinion poll.

But hey forget the math and throw it out the window, I am still wrong despite evidence provided even if it is opinion to reinforce a question that has no non-opinion based answer.

Based on everything I've seen here, Tau is perfectly balanced in every way possible based on Tau Math. (TM)

Or these are all opinions and no body is wrong.......

 total0 wrote:

 total0 wrote:
1 imperium of man
2 eldars
3 tau
4 chaos
5 necrons
6 orks
7 nids

Taken from a recent post about army strength.

Yo dawg! Don't go dragging me into this!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Konrax wrote:
The thread on "how to fix waveserpents" is at 7 pages compared to "how to fix tau".

MercenStein wrote:
Eldar>Tau>IoM>Necron>Nids>Chaos>Orks

 Xenomancers wrote:
Eldar>Tau>IOM> everything else.

JuniorRS13 wrote:

MercenStein wrote:
Eldar>Tau>IoM>Necron>Nids>Chaos>Orks

This. Although I might flip flop orks and chaos on certain days.

If we broke down IOM though, Knights would be first.

Rank 3

 total0 wrote:
1 imperium of man
2 eldars
3 tau
4 chaos
5 necrons
6 orks
7 nids

Taken from a recent post about army strength.

 Konrax wrote:
.

Based on everything I've seen here, Tau is perfectly balanced in every way possible based on Math.

Finally you're making sense.

LordBlades wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

Flyrants need a Malanthrope/Venomthrope or VSG to make sure they aren't alpha striked off the table before they can fly.

Wraithknights, Dreadknights need help making sure they don't get tarpitted.
IKs need AA help (since they have literally no effective AA)
Wave Serpents are the closest to not needing support, but they require taking other units anyway.

Flyrants it's nice to have, not need, not like X points of only flyrants will be alphed that easily by X points of something else.

No, really - if I don't have a 2+ cover or lots of BLOS terrain in my deployment zone I'm guaranteed to lose at least 1 Flyrant, and usually 2, before they can take off against a good shooting list.

IKs: do tell about the awesome AA that an IA Riptide has access to. An IA Riptide needs just as much AA support as a Knight.

I thought we were discussing all Riptides, not just the IA? That's been my goal this entire thread.
Regardless, 3 S7 shots is decent AA, but not amazing. It's significantly more than an IK can do.

Tarpitting(NDK at least): If you've managed to tarpit a NDK between his excellent anti-hirde ranged weapons and the Teleporter then your opponent is doing something wrong.

Incorrect. The NDK has to advance to use his anti-horde weapons. If he uses his Torrent Template weapon he's within assault range. I can't tell you the number of times a Tervigon has kept a DK or two tied up all game by spawning gants.
The NDK moves up to take out one unit and can't assault that turn. Since you're a smart general, you have your tarpit unit in front of your important unit. It loses some dudes to the template and then assaults on your turn. It's not like any MC can just shoot and then jump away OH WAIT THE RIPTIDE CAN.

 Desubot wrote:

 Konrax wrote:
Maybe in a world where numbers actually functioned properly you would see based on this small sample size of 7 people, more than 50% would agree with me, which im not counted in this data.

With me it would be 5/8 which would be 62.5% in favour of my statement based on a recent opinion poll.

But hey forget the math and throw it out the window, I am still wrong despite evidence provided even if it is opinion to reinforce a question that has no non-opinion based answer.

Based on everything I've seen here, Tau is perfectly balanced in every way possible based on Tau Math. (TM)

Or these are all opinions and no body is wrong.......

Agreed.

Can I leave this thread once and for all now please?

No, no you may not.

SGTPozy wrote:
This is what baffles me when people say this; how big is your table that a Riptide can stay really far away? Do you foot slog everything or something?

Most tarpit units have to footslog, yes.

Anyway, I've never encountered someone in a casual game who does that as most people move them rather close to the enemy.

Sure, if your opponent doesn't play well anything could happen. In that case Riptides are undercosted.

Dear dark gods what have I gotten myself into!?!?!?