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Martel732 wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
"Focus my Plasma-Cannons on Transports. Usually the 2nd or 3rd pops the Transport,"

This is incredibly unlikely against most transports. You get a glance on a 4+ and on a pen only get a kill on a "6", thanks to 7th ed.

Like I stated earlier, I seem have luck with Plasma, my First Shot usually gets a Glance or Pen, that pen is usually a Crew Stunned or Weapon Destroyed. The Second is usually another Pen and either a Immobilized, Weapon Destroyed [and if they did not take the 2nd Storm-Bolter now an Immobilized] or I roll a 6.
However my Las-Cannon and Melta shots usually don't even Glance, don't ask why anymore. I have stopped fighting it and just stick with my Plasma.

That is a bunch of superstitious nonsense. It is not usable in a general discussion.

Superstition or not this is what has happen time after time to me.

Now for others Plasma does not work, but Las-Cannons might be a Better choice or Missile Launchers, the principle is the same.
One [Insert Heavy Weapon of choice] Does little. 2-4 [Insert Heavy Weapon of choice] can take down [Insert Target of choice] at range until they get close enough for your Bolt Guns and [Insert Special Weapon of Choice].

Needing four army slots to kill a Rhino is insane. Yet, this is what you are proposing.

Yes, While my Tactical squads are popping Transports and the Squads in side them and my 4 Plasma-Cannon Devastator Squads re doing the same, by turn 2 you have 6 partial units walking across the board.

That is the other thing everyone seems to be doing, Taking Tactical in a Vacuum.
Tactical Squad re not going to win the Game by Destroying everything They can shoot at. They win the game by taking/holding Objectives/Important parts of the board while the Specialist do their Job. That is a Tactical Squads Job! A Job they Do, not Greatly, but it is what they do.

"While my Tactical squads are popping Transports "

Except they won't.

" 4 Plasma-Cannon Devastator Squads re doing the same"

This just gets better and better. Tailor for meqs much?

"They win the game by taking/holding Objectives/Important parts of the board"

They won't be doing that because I will have killed them. Because they can't kill me.

Martel732 wrote:
"While my Tactical squads are popping Transports "

Except they won't.

" 4 Plasma-Cannon Devastator Squads re doing the same"

This just gets better and better. Tailor for meqs much?

"They win the game by taking/holding Objectives/Important parts of the board"

They won't be doing that because I will have killed them. Because they can't kill me.

List Tailor No, it is just one of many list like to throw against any Enemy. I went to Plasma because it was the Only Heavy Weapon working for me back in 2nd besides Auto-Cannons. If I could take Auto-Cannons I would be using those.

And I though your Army could not kill anyone and were always blasted off the board before you could do anything?

 Anpu42 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
"While my Tactical squads are popping Transports "

Except they won't.

" 4 Plasma-Cannon Devastator Squads re doing the same"

This just gets better and better. Tailor for meqs much?

"They win the game by taking/holding Objectives/Important parts of the board"

They won't be doing that because I will have killed them. Because they can't kill me.

List Tailor No, it is just one of many list like to throw against any Enemy. I went to Plasma because it was the Only Heavy Weapon working for me back in 2nd besides Auto-Cannons. If I could take Auto-Cannons I would be using those.

And I though your Army could not kill anyone and were always blasted off the board before you could do anything?

Against Eldar. And Tau. Using a 5th ed codex. The game is a bit different now. While BA are still no match for Xeno firepower, I have no respect at all for armies fielding large numbers of tacticals. Those lists are just victims. I'm not scared of a few plasma cannons after facing what the Eldar can do. I don't think you fully comprehend how much less firepower these squads you are talking about have compared to Tau or Eldar or even IG.

The fearsome marine lists have smashbane, grav stars, and grav bikers. I'd rather lose to that stuff though, than tired old Grey Hunters.

Martel732 wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
"While my Tactical squads are popping Transports "

Except they won't.

" 4 Plasma-Cannon Devastator Squads re doing the same"

This just gets better and better. Tailor for meqs much?

"They win the game by taking/holding Objectives/Important parts of the board"

They won't be doing that because I will have killed them. Because they can't kill me.

List Tailor No, it is just one of many list like to throw against any Enemy. I went to Plasma because it was the Only Heavy Weapon working for me back in 2nd besides Auto-Cannons. If I could take Auto-Cannons I would be using those.

And I though your Army could not kill anyone and were always blasted off the board before you could do anything?

Against Eldar. And Tau. Using a 5th ed codex. The game is a bit different now. While BA are still no match for Xeno firepower, I have no respect at all for armies fielding large numbers of tacticals. Those lists are just victims. The fearsome marine lists have smashbane, grav stars, and grav bikers.

In Your META.
Mine plays different as I have stated in the past. We occasional get together and pull out "Big Gun Competitive List", but mostly we play low key games where it is not uncommon to see 6 Full Sized Boyz Mobs vs 6x Tactical Squads list
That does not make my Experiences Invalid, Better or Worse than anyone else just different.

 Anpu42 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
"While my Tactical squads are popping Transports "

Except they won't.

" 4 Plasma-Cannon Devastator Squads re doing the same"

This just gets better and better. Tailor for meqs much?

"They win the game by taking/holding Objectives/Important parts of the board"

They won't be doing that because I will have killed them. Because they can't kill me.

List Tailor No, it is just one of many list like to throw against any Enemy. I went to Plasma because it was the Only Heavy Weapon working for me back in 2nd besides Auto-Cannons. If I could take Auto-Cannons I would be using those.

And I though your Army could not kill anyone and were always blasted off the board before you could do anything?

Against Eldar. And Tau. Using a 5th ed codex. The game is a bit different now. While BA are still no match for Xeno firepower, I have no respect at all for armies fielding large numbers of tacticals. Those lists are just victims. The fearsome marine lists have smashbane, grav stars, and grav bikers.

In Your META.
Mine plays different as I have stated in the past. We occasional get together and pull out "Big Gun Competitive List", but mostly we play low key games where it is not uncommon to see 6 Full Sized Boyz Mobs vs 6x Tactical Squads list
That does not make my Experiences Invalid, Better or Worse than anyone else just different.

It kinda does when we are talking about how competitive a choice is

Akiasura wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
"While my Tactical squads are popping Transports "

Except they won't.

" 4 Plasma-Cannon Devastator Squads re doing the same"

This just gets better and better. Tailor for meqs much?

"They win the game by taking/holding Objectives/Important parts of the board"

They won't be doing that because I will have killed them. Because they can't kill me.

List Tailor No, it is just one of many list like to throw against any Enemy. I went to Plasma because it was the Only Heavy Weapon working for me back in 2nd besides Auto-Cannons. If I could take Auto-Cannons I would be using those.

And I though your Army could not kill anyone and were always blasted off the board before you could do anything?

Against Eldar. And Tau. Using a 5th ed codex. The game is a bit different now. While BA are still no match for Xeno firepower, I have no respect at all for armies fielding large numbers of tacticals. Those lists are just victims. The fearsome marine lists have smashbane, grav stars, and grav bikers.

In Your META.
Mine plays different as I have stated in the past. We occasional get together and pull out "Big Gun Competitive List", but mostly we play low key games where it is not uncommon to see 6 Full Sized Boyz Mobs vs 6x Tactical Squads list
That does not make my Experiences Invalid, Better or Worse than anyone else just different.

It kinda does when we are talking about how competitive a choice is

Well that also makes everything you tell me Invalid for me then.
All I can tell is how things work for me.

 Anpu42 wrote:

Well that also makes everything you tell me Invalid for me then.
All I can tell is how things work for me.

Ah, your posts so bad that there are seven people telling you that you are wrong instead of actually talking about anything.

pelicaniforce wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:

Well that also makes everything you tell me Invalid for me then.
All I can tell is how things work for me.

Ah, your posts so bad that there are seven people telling you that you are wrong instead of actually talking about anything.

Well then you don't have to worry about me giving my point of view here any more.
I guess my views and opinions are only Valid of they tow the line.

I think when you're trying to discuss how good a unit is, you're going to assume a certain baseline of list quality to use for the discussion.

If we're talking about a meta that takes assault centurions, old ork codex flash gits, the new captain Tycho, and other such silliness, then ANYTHING could be good. (Of course in the same situation, already good things would be extremely OP.)

Also you seem to be implying that six full-size boys mobs aren't scary. I know most of my lists can't put out 180ish wounds against t4 with any reliable speed. And that's only around 11-1200 points for the orks.

 Anpu42 wrote:

Akiasura wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
"While my Tactical squads are popping Transports "

Except they won't.

" 4 Plasma-Cannon Devastator Squads re doing the same"

This just gets better and better. Tailor for meqs much?

"They win the game by taking/holding Objectives/Important parts of the board"

They won't be doing that because I will have killed them. Because they can't kill me.

List Tailor No, it is just one of many list like to throw against any Enemy. I went to Plasma because it was the Only Heavy Weapon working for me back in 2nd besides Auto-Cannons. If I could take Auto-Cannons I would be using those.

And I though your Army could not kill anyone and were always blasted off the board before you could do anything?

Against Eldar. And Tau. Using a 5th ed codex. The game is a bit different now. While BA are still no match for Xeno firepower, I have no respect at all for armies fielding large numbers of tacticals. Those lists are just victims. The fearsome marine lists have smashbane, grav stars, and grav bikers.

In Your META.
Mine plays different as I have stated in the past. We occasional get together and pull out "Big Gun Competitive List", but mostly we play low key games where it is not uncommon to see 6 Full Sized Boyz Mobs vs 6x Tactical Squads list
That does not make my Experiences Invalid, Better or Worse than anyone else just different.

It kinda does when we are talking about how competitive a choice is

Well that also makes everything you tell me Invalid for me then.
All I can tell is how things work for me.

Is there a fallacy akin to a child being told his drawing is bad, therefore your drawing is also bad?
Because if so, this is happening.

But yes, all of us are toeing a line, but you're a maverick with real thinking and thoughts and things that no one else can understand!

Don't let silly things like math and logic slow you down now, be the rebel!

I also have dice act oddly for me, but I don't bring it into a competitive discussion about a unit choice.

There's nothing wrong with a tactical squad. Think of the Tactical squad as your TAC unit or a Swiss army knife and you'll find that the unit works really well if you kit it to do the task.

Sometimes I feel that people wouldn't be happy unless something is broken or an auto include. It's like the only way tactical marines are going to be good in the internet is if they have them cost 35 points and boost the stats to T5, 2+,4++ with plasma/melta for 5pt each for each squad.

Then you'd hear people say how GW hates xeno players and how tacticals are now the best unit to take. GW releases new dex boosting xeno units to be able to take out the Tactical squad. Now as it's no longer an auto include the cycle starts all over again.

I can hear the keys' clicking right now. "But Inkubas, what about the tournament scenes? We don't see many people use the TAC squads! Checkmate!" Well, yea. The unit is meant to be an all corners unit. It's not meant to take out everything out there. And people who come up with lists to win tournaments don't really play something 'fair' and 'balanced'. They bring heavy hitters that marines wouldn't be too effective against. A tactical squad can take out a baneblade but I wouldn't rely on them to. I certainly won't be writing them off for it either.

Unless I am doing my math wrong. x points of bolter marines will win a firefight with x points of any other troop in the game, all other things being equal.

So I am somewhat baffled.

Alcibiades wrote:
Unless I am doing my math wrong. x points of bolter marines will win a firefight with x points of any other troop in the game, all other things being equal.

So I am somewhat baffled.

It's not that simple, and I don't think that's even accurate. X pts of dire avengers will almost certainly kill X pts of tac marines in a fire fight.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Inkubas wrote:
There's nothing wrong with a tactical squad. Think of the Tactical squad as your TAC unit or a Swiss army knife and you'll find that the unit works really well if you kit it to do the task.

Sometimes I feel that people wouldn't be happy unless something is broken or an auto include. It's like the only way tactical marines are going to be good in the internet is if they have them cost 35 points and boost the stats to T5, 2+,4++ with plasma/melta for 5pt each for each squad.

Then you'd hear people say how GW hates xeno players and how tacticals are now the best unit to take. GW releases new dex boosting xeno units to be able to take out the Tactical squad. Now as it's no longer an auto include the cycle starts all over again.

I can hear the keys' clicking right now. "But Inkubas, what about the tournament scenes? We don't see many people use the TAC squads! Checkmate!" Well, yea. The unit is meant to be an all corners unit. It's not meant to take out everything out there. And people who come up with lists to win tournaments don't really play something 'fair' and 'balanced'. They bring heavy hitters that marines wouldn't be too effective against. A tactical squad can take out a baneblade but I wouldn't rely on them to. I certainly won't be writing them off for it either.

I know there's something wrong with them, because I can ignore them on the battlefield. I can't ignore dire avengers.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Anpu42 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
"While my Tactical squads are popping Transports "

Except they won't.

" 4 Plasma-Cannon Devastator Squads re doing the same"

This just gets better and better. Tailor for meqs much?

"They win the game by taking/holding Objectives/Important parts of the board"

They won't be doing that because I will have killed them. Because they can't kill me.

List Tailor No, it is just one of many list like to throw against any Enemy. I went to Plasma because it was the Only Heavy Weapon working for me back in 2nd besides Auto-Cannons. If I could take Auto-Cannons I would be using those.

And I though your Army could not kill anyone and were always blasted off the board before you could do anything?

Against Eldar. And Tau. Using a 5th ed codex. The game is a bit different now. While BA are still no match for Xeno firepower, I have no respect at all for armies fielding large numbers of tacticals. Those lists are just victims. The fearsome marine lists have smashbane, grav stars, and grav bikers.

In Your META.
Mine plays different as I have stated in the past. We occasional get together and pull out "Big Gun Competitive List", but mostly we play low key games where it is not uncommon to see 6 Full Sized Boyz Mobs vs 6x Tactical Squads list
That does not make my Experiences Invalid, Better or Worse than anyone else just different.

Sounds like you play with opponents who don't even try to optimize their lists. Sounds like your meta is the opposite of WAAC. That invalidates pretty much everything say about how effective something will be in a general sense. Can you maybe for once pretend your are NOT in your meta? If you don't play against good lists, then you really have no idea what really works in an all-comers setting.

Wait. You can ignore them and therefore they aren't an effective unit in the game? I have to ask. What do you play on a typical list? Heldrakes are deadly to MEQ but if I play Deathwing I can ignore them too. It doesn't mean that they suck.

If tactical marines had shields that they could shoot at opponents, or jink... theyd be good.

 Pyeatt wrote:
If tactical marines had shields that they could shoot at opponents, or jink... theyd be good.

They are fine as is. Don't get me wrong. I wouldn't complain if all of the sudden they get a 2+/FNP/3++ or any additional weapon options, however, I don't need that to make it work.

I just thought of cultists. They work for what they do but it'd be cool to have a few of them self destruct (S4 AP2 large blast).

Had to re-edit this in!

Choose Alpha Legion cultists and make them scream "For the Emperor!" as they blow up. That is all.

I just realized something Martel. I have never ever seen you write anything good about blood angels. Like according to you they have been the worst codex ever. Though it doesn't make any of the points you make on this thread less valid. Nobody has mentioned this yet but I would say crusader squads are pretty good. 5 man las/plas units in rhino- cheap and can usually make there points back in a game.

Alcibiades wrote:
Unless I am doing my math wrong. x points of bolter marines will win a firefight with x points of any other troop in the game, all other things being equal.

So I am somewhat baffled.

Marine bikers for an instant correction. 1ksons will absolutely destroy them. Tau would destroy them simply due to range. Any wraith guard will wreck them, 46 gretchin with a couple points to spare actually win out in the open, and massively win if there's cover.

A bunch of the units that they DO actually beat in a Multi-round firefight won't let them shoot multiple rounds. They'll just come beat them up instead. WS 4 s4 A1 is a pretty pathetic melee statline in today's game. They could REALLY use a knife to get 1/2 for pistol+knife.

 Mr.bacon wrote:
I just realized something Martel. I have never ever seen you write anything good about blood angels. Like according to you they have been the worst codex ever. Though it doesn't make any of the points you make on this thread less valid. Nobody has mentioned this yet but I would say crusader squads are pretty good. 5 man las/plas units in rhino- cheap and can usually make there points back in a game.

I said good things about the new codex. It's good, but not great or inspiring. Still gets massacred by Eldar.

The Tactical Marines are - in the end - pretty good. One of the toughest troops to hold the objective.

However, they have some big problems that need solving:

- AP3/AP2 is everywhere nowadays. Even though they've got one of the best armour saves in the game amongst any other troop choices across the codices, it isn't enough. It just isn't, and that makes me sad.

- They're AMAZINGLY AVERAGE at best. Just one special and/or heavy weapon maximum per squad? Come on, let me take 2 special weapons, I don't like having heavy weapons in my tac squad, anyway. Meanwhile, the special snowflake Wolves have this option.

- The squad's Sergeant / Veteran Sergeant statline is almost identical with the regular marine one. Why not better 1WS/BS? +1Ld is nice with the upgrade, and almost mandatory, since Ld8 is so easy to fail for me.
Also: he can't take special weapons.

Either the ability to give them two specials or two heavys might make them pretty good.

niv-mizzet wrote:

A bunch of the units that they DO actually beat in a Multi-round firefight won't let them shoot multiple rounds. They'll just come beat them up instead. WS 4 s4 A1 is a pretty pathetic melee statline in today's game. They could REALLY use a knife to get 1/2 for pistol+knife.

A. You need a different solution because the 8-10 extra attacks will not dissuade or defeat any of the things that want to charge you.

B. The power knife is -1S and Specialist Weapon. That is exactly the way it should be, even ignoring what the existing models have no marine knife should be a full ccw.

Tigramans wrote:The Tactical Marines are - in the end - pretty good. One of the toughest troops to hold the objective.

However, they have some big problems that need solving:

- AP3/AP2 is everywhere nowadays. Even though they've got one of the best armour saves in the game amongst any other troop choices across the codices, it isn't enough. It just isn't, and that makes me sad.

You should try them at FNP 5+ and 4+ save.

Just one special and/or heavy weapon maximum per squad? Come on, let me take 2 special weapons, I don't like having heavy weapons in my tac squad, anyway. Meanwhile, the special snowflake Wolves have this option.

No I have no respect for this. Special weapons only get to shoot like 3 turns a game, that is not better than heavy weapons.

pelicaniforce wrote:

niv-mizzet wrote:

A bunch of the units that they DO actually beat in a Multi-round firefight won't let them shoot multiple rounds. They'll just come beat them up instead. WS 4 s4 A1 is a pretty pathetic melee statline in today's game. They could REALLY use a knife to get 1/2 for pistol+knife.

No I have no respect for this. Special weapons only get to shoot like 3 turns a game, that is not better than heavy weapons.

Sigh

By this weak, hamfisted logic Heavy Weapons are worse as they'll be lucky to only fire about once or twice a game in a mobile squad. And static HW Tac Squads are just a joke.

A piddly little Lascannon or ML added to your firepower reserve is nothing compared to a pair of plasmaguns in the 12'' bracket horribly murdering the unit you're already pelting with bolters, and need to kill ASAP.

One thing I grabbed through this discussion is that Tacticals can be ignored, and I came to think about it - Being ignored can be one of the best things ever to happen to Troops.

When you use a Tactical Squad and expect them to go about and kill other units of their own size, you'll likely be disappointed, if not severely so - It's not that Bolters are weak weapons, they are just a bit... Average. And most other troop choices aren't average at the art of killing (Orks, SW and BA Tacticals, Termagaunts), so this might put people off. The thing I've noticed is that Tacticals have a lot of points in defense - 3+ Sv, ATSKNF, Ld 9... All pretty goddamn good, if we just assume we're not fighting three Heldrakes at a time.

So, instead of focusing on offensive power, what about focusing on defensive? As mentioned, a squad of Tacticals can be ignored, so you can plop them in a ruin and on an objective and just sit the match through, pelting your enemies witha litle bit of Bolter fire if you feel like it, or maybe even pick a Heavy Weapon to help you out with that. The Squad isn't important or damaging enough to go and kill (At least it won't be if you have Assault Terminators, Vindicators and other threats to take priority), and a little pelting fire here and there won't do them in easy enough, because you can easily get back on the field with ATSKNF, and, if you are really threathened, just Squad up and let the enemy choose if he really wanna use 2-4 units to clear the building. If your Squad is the most obvious and easy target for your enemy, that must mean that all other forces on your side has been removed (at which point you have already lost) or that you didn't bring anything else (at which point you should lose as a result).

What I think is important to remember is that 14 pt for a 3+ Sv, T 4, Almost Fearless model is pretty fricking great, and very hard to remove from a ruin, as long as the enmy force is properly occupied with your more hitty forces.

 The Wise Dane wrote:
One thing I grabbed through this discussion is that Tacticals can be ignored, and I came to think about it - Being ignored can be one of the best things ever to happen to Troops.

When you use a Tactical Squad and expect them to go about and kill other units of their own size, you'll likely be disappointed, if not severely so - It's not that Bolters are weak weapons, they are just a bit... Average. And most other troop choices aren't average at the art of killing (Orks, SW and BA Tacticals, Termagaunts), so this might put people off. The thing I've noticed is that Tacticals have a lot of points in defense - 3+ Sv, ATSKNF, Ld 9... All pretty goddamn good, if we just assume we're not fighting three Heldrakes at a time.

So, instead of focusing on offensive power, what about focusing on defensive? As mentioned, a squad of Tacticals can be ignored, so you can plop them in a ruin and on an objective and just sit the match through, pelting your enemies witha litle bit of Bolter fire if you feel like it, or maybe even pick a Heavy Weapon to help you out with that. The Squad isn't important or damaging enough to go and kill (At least it won't be if you have Assault Terminators, Vindicators and other threats to take priority), and a little pelting fire here and there won't do them in easy enough, because you can easily get back on the field with ATSKNF, and, if you are really threathened, just Squad up and let the enemy choose if he really wanna use 2-4 units to clear the building. If your Squad is the most obvious and easy target for your enemy, that must mean that all other forces on your side has been removed (at which point you have already lost) or that you didn't bring anything else (at which point you should lose as a result).

What I think is important to remember is that 14 pt for a 3+ Sv, T 4, Almost Fearless model is pretty fricking great, and very hard to remove from a ruin, as long as the enmy force is properly occupied with your more hitty forces.

But being ignored is a disaster for all your other slots, because they end up taking that much more fire. And your tac squads are going to die at the middle/end of the game anyway.

So, instead of focusing on offensive power, what about focusing on defensive? As mentioned, a squad of Tacticals can be ignored, so you can plop them in a ruin and on an objective and just sit the match through, pelting your enemies witha litle bit of Bolter fire if you feel like it, or maybe even pick a Heavy Weapon to help you out with that.

because their defensive power is too low. They are sometimes ignored by good armies, because they know they can wipe out those sternguards/cent starfirst and then they will have enough fire power to grind the tacticals to dust, as the return fire will be minimal. bolters do nothing to flyers or transports that are good, and heavy weapons that don't ignore cover have to be more in number, then tacticals can pull off. how long does it take for 2 tacs to take down a serpent or a nightscyth, probably more then the game lasts.

Makumba wrote:

So, instead of focusing on offensive power, what about focusing on defensive? As mentioned, a squad of Tacticals can be ignored, so you can plop them in a ruin and on an objective and just sit the match through, pelting your enemies witha litle bit of Bolter fire if you feel like it, or maybe even pick a Heavy Weapon to help you out with that.

because their defensive power is too low. They are sometimes ignored by good armies, because they know they can wipe out those sternguards/cent starfirst and then they will have enough fire power to grind the tacticals to dust, as the return fire will be minimal. bolters do nothing to flyers or transports that are good, and heavy weapons that don't ignore cover have to be more in number, then tacticals can pull off. how long does it take for 2 tacs to take down a serpent or a nightscyth, probably more then the game lasts.

Give this man the prize!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Inkubas wrote:
Wait. You can ignore them and therefore they aren't an effective unit in the game? I have to ask. What do you play on a typical list? Heldrakes are deadly to MEQ but if I play Deathwing I can ignore them too. It doesn't mean that they suck.

I don't play lists like that. They will just never be prioritized over bikers, gravstars or Sternguard. I ignore them. I can't ignore DA, or their transport.

Kirby did an article on that line of thought ages ago

"I intentionally take bad units, look at what a psychological genius I am!"

No, taking bad units means you have dead weights in your list. Small, cheap, throwaway units like 5 man scout/tac squads are fine, but taking 10 Man kitted out Tactical Squads because the opponent won't care enough to obliterate them first thing is laughable.

Is the non-barebones Tactical Squad a threat turn 1? Y (1) / N (2)

(1) The squad gets obliterated.

(2) Will it be a significant threat later? Y (1) N (3)

(3) Why'd you take it moron?

DISCLAIMER:



All the Tactical Squad is going to do is pop off a measly HW shot a turn, and then get shot to pieces as soon as your opponent marches his army over the cold corpses of your understrength, weak frontline troops.

Can you link that article? I am REALLY curious what he said.