Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
Soteks Prophet wrote: Though in the case of UCM most of the starter stuff is eclipsed buy better tanks.
It will still be a case of limited shots and missing 16% of the time at a minimum AND be very expensive so meh
Not really.
The UCM starter consists of basic infantry (always required), Bear APCs (viable choice for transport), Rapier AA (best AA in game, only ground tank AA available to UCM) and Sabre Tanks (Solid anti-armor units, but with equals in the Katanas). It also comes with 3 medium dropships which you are guarenteed to use literally every single game.
Nobody else has it better really for these types of units, so it's still all solid.
Re the stretch goals, I didn't interpret it only as they're going to go back and pad it out, but also that since the take has so far exceeded their expectations, they can consider adding more stuff in, within reason. Hence the we don't want to over-commit line.
We're very keen to support local gaming stores and clubs, which is why very few gaming elements other than the plastic sets (such as battleships, command units etc) will be offered on this Kickstarter Campaign.
We also want to support distributors, retailers and local gaming groups, and not treat Kickstarter as a store front, so we are also pledging that a variety of products in the entire planned product range (such as command units, larger and smaller ships and a range of other scenery items) will not be available via our Kickstarter campaign.
Now it makes sense why the campaign offerings seem a bit limited, they are literally only the starter set ships. "Battleships", "command units", and "larger and smaller ships" are not being offered.
I'm lucky enough to have a FLGS that stocks DzC, but even still that's a bit of a bummer. You're going to need to buy a command unit if it's anything like DzC, and you'll also likely want a Battleship and maybe some smaller ships. From the way they say they're offering very few things "other than the plastic sets" it makes it sound like those things will be in their resin. So, more expensive, as well...
I'm still sticking with half of a two starter set pledge (found a local gamer who wants the Scourge!), but not adding any more since if it's like DzC, the variety of the single blister items will make them more desirable than only duplicating starters.
It's nice of them to think of local retailers, but it also means everyone who really wants to play more than an intro game is going to need to go buy a command unit later (again, if it's like DzC in that regard, where one isn't needed for a small intro game or included in the starter). That's smart business but as a consumer it's a bit of a bummer, too. Will be looking forward to seeing what they have ready in resin by the time this hits next summer, but not really much to do now unless they decide to offer the greater variety of ship sizes / roles they mention are in the game above.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/10/31 08:38:17
@RiTides: True, command units are pretty much as must-have in DZC because otherwise you cripple your commanders abilities.
However, the goal of this KS is to fund the creation of a) a plastic starter set and hopefully (almost certain now) the tooling of plastic starters for the other two main factions.
That saves you a fair chunk of cash which you can then use to buy those battleships, command units, etc.
I don't want Hawk to over extend this and run into difficulties. IIRC early on in DZC's run they were caught on the hop because they didn't expect the game to be quite so popular.
I know how many people have been looking forward to the KS starting in my area but I was still surprised that it funded in..what twelve minutes?
I can see where you are coming from - it would be nice to grab the whole fleet in plastic from the get go - but OTOH after years of GW grinding the face of Indies into the mud I'm pleased to see more companies actively trying to support LGS.
EDIT: That said, on further reflection I am kind of torn. There are going to be models that I dont' think will be worth making in plastic because they just wont' sell enough of them...unless the game really takes off...which would be helped by cheaper plastic fleets. I don't know how or if we could work out where the break point for LGSes would be in terms of being able to sell the whole range in plastic versus having access to the non-core stuff albeit in resin. Especially when they still have to compete against the significant discounts offered by online retailers.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/10/31 09:17:34
Don't be surprised if it's only the starter fleets in plastic. I very much doubt any other options will be available in this KS. Other choices will be available at retail so Hawk stays on the FLGS good side. I'm sure I read that somewhere!
I'm just not seeing much savings beyond basic discount in this. Unless they are going to be making everything cost that much more than drop zone commander it's not even a 20% discount. It's actually looking like 10% or less.
I'm interested but I'll probably wait for retail and see if it picks up locally. I've got armada for my current fleet needs.
Best Painted (2015 Adepticon 40k Champs)
They Shall Know Fear - Adepticon 40k TT Champion (2012 & 2013) & 40k TT Best Sport (2014), 40k TT Best Tactician (2015 & 2016)
I think it's a good compromise to keep the smaller run likely resin stuff off the kickstarter and stores/online store only. As for the command units, you don't think there will be a "command" variant of one of the ships in the starter? I suspect in DFC the equivalents of more advanced command stuff like the giant flying phoenix for the UCM will be off the kickstarter but simpler stuff like the variant apc (kodiak?) will be in the kickstarter.
Avoiding resin for the KS seems smart, as not only could it cause delays in getting enough cast,
since they do their own casting it could also very well impact negatively in the supply of the DZC resin stuff to stores & individuals which would not be good for their main game
(they could hire more people, but resin casting is not a simple business, and hireing/training folk takes plenty of time)
Hopefully it didn't sound like I was complaining, but what I mean is this - my whole group bought in heavily on DzC when it launched, and the backlog on the resin was crazy (due to popularity!). You had to order it direct to get it rather then through a distributor - we had a gigantic order in to Miniature Market, and they couldn't get any of it and eventually refunded it.
They've grown and learned a lot since then, but I'm envisioning possibly having to pay separate UK shipping if we want command units or battleships (or even smaller ships) anywhere near to when we receive the Kickstarter sets. So, that's just a bummer is all, and means there's no reason to back beyond two starter sets here.
Warboss - Again from DzC, but the starter set will Definitely not make a command variant based on their comment above!
Overtyrant - I quoted that text above, they explicitly say they are not offering the big/small/command ships here. It is smart for fulfilling on time, but it guarantees if you want to play a standard sized game you will need to place another separate order.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/10/31 14:07:55
- Too much shown towards stores and they risk a bunch of backers pulling out as the perceived value fails to materialise and goals are either relocked or fail to fund with their, ahem, "Stretched funding plan"
- Too much shown towards backers and stores think, rightly or wrongly; "No point carrying that, everyone's got it"
Hawk still need to do more or should be prepared to do more with the funding they receive. Things like plastic terrain, more ships in plastic (tool up other ones that will end up being fairly common), plastic clusters or objective markers, deluxe gaming surfaces, etc. Doing things like improving the offering in the starter can't be a bad thing at the very least. Besides, I want the Beijing class battleship!
Wow, that looks great! But is almost certainly either a command or battleship, which they said they're not offering here (or terrain). Here are the quotes on that from the KS page again:
...very few gaming elements other than the plastic sets (such as battleships, command units etc) will be offered on this Kickstarter Campaign.
...a variety of products in the entire planned product range (such as command units, larger and smaller ships and a range of other scenery items) will not be available via our Kickstarter campaign.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/10/31 14:05:03
Aye, and that runs into my point one. Too little shown to backers and they could see people pulling out as the perception of value for some fails to materialise. This, combined with their new stretched stretch goal targets, could mean they fail to fund them or even have some re-locked!
I think they'll do really well, it's just that I know from DzC the medium sized ships and core stuff in the starter won't be enough to satisfy us in games for long . Definitely keeping my pledge right where it is, and looking forward to getting more when offered next summer as they launch the game!
overtyrant wrote: Don't be surprised if it's only the starter fleets in plastic.
If the KS does as well as it looks like it will then I wouldn't be surprised to find more plastic kits beyond the Cruisers and frigates. Not as KS specific rewards but for general production.
Part 2 of the BoW playthrough.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/10/31 15:11:26
Just watching Part 2 - BFG influence is right there from the crippled, damage points and the catastrophic damage. Couple that with the move/shoot/Landing/End phase and it just looks wicked!
The kick starter on the other hand looks a mess with no clear stretch goals and them being flung on after it has be surpassed (a very Corrupt way of doing things)
I don't think hawk has understood what it's doing on ks they seem so very ill prepared the first few days is very very important and should have been all hands on deck for at least the first few days regardless when it falls.
As for the people who say hawk doesn't owe any one yes it does currently around £180,000.
Now on to parts of the good I can find so not all negative.
The models look great apart from everyone frigates except the ucms. I want to see the guns littered over the ship ucm has done very well the scourge not very well and shatarai not sure again all this can change when get models in hand.
I am waiting to see the phr but get a bad feeling they make go like directorate from firestorm and have to much under a shell you can't see when in game but I hope for more as so far the ucm have by far the best ships.
Scourge I didn't think I would like but have very elegant looking cruisers which I like a lot more than I thought I would. The frigates just look crap was hopeing for more sleak design just don't seem to fit in with the cruisers.
Shatarai cruisers look good apart from the mother ship one. The frigates are OK but need to see more versions first they remind me a bit of Vulcan ships. Need more pieces and stuff to really see the looks of the shatarai.
And now the phr where are they :( this is the side I wanted to see the most come on hawk show us some more anime esk ships
All in all the designs look good for the models some I would say look gorgeous others I may not like the shape but are still fine looking models from detail stand point.
The game from the very small bits I have seen doesn't take my breath away nothing not seen in a 100 different spaceship games before some tweaks but have to wait to see the meat of the game before seeing something special I think as we are seeing to much in a vacuum and since rules are not finalised it may develop more so hopes that the combination of not seeing the meat of the game and seeing small bits in a void are hiding a truly worth while game that gives the feel of just how big the ships are.
Sorry long post but I figure the game could be worth a long post fingers crossed
The kick starter on the other hand looks a mess with no clear stretch goals and them being flung on after it has be surpassed (a very Corrupt way of doing things)
The KS was funded in 15 minutes, I think its quite safe to say that this level of demand was not anticipated. As such its no real wonder that their planned stretch goals were mostly surpassed before they were even made public. Nothing corrupt about it and Hawk have always been very clear that the KS is entirely about getting the DFC starter fleets made in plastic and not stretch goals.
I would point out if that was the case shouldn't they have had the stretch goals at least up to the phr starter laid out? Overall if they just wanted the starters (which people are paying more for than discounted retail) then they should have run a shorter camain and be all hands on deck the first few days.
Either way I'm keeping an eye on it. We'll see if the value increases enough for a 6 month lead time.
Best Painted (2015 Adepticon 40k Champs)
They Shall Know Fear - Adepticon 40k TT Champion (2012 & 2013) & 40k TT Best Sport (2014), 40k TT Best Tactician (2015 & 2016)
If the rule book has the same quality fluff and flavor text as the DZC book, we're in for a treat. One can only wonder if or when novels will be announced.
Think I'm going to pass and wait for retail on this. The game looks awesome and has a lot going for it, but not seeing much benefit to opening my wallet this far in advance for what looks to be essentially the online price for the starter set.
zedmeister wrote:Hahahaha, oh dear. Though, the honesty is refreshing:
I found this pretty tempting to begin with, but I think the honesty tipped me over the edge.
Souleater wrote:I don't want Hawk to over extend this and run into difficulties.
warboss wrote:I think it's a good compromise to keep the smaller run likely resin stuff off the kickstarter and stores/online store only.
Yup. All this freakish 'culture' that's sprung up around wargames kickstarters, promising more than you can realistically supply; expecting more than they can realistically supply; sellers and punters alike treating Kickstarter like a webshop; getting all huffy when they offer you a discount rather than a throat-cutting haemorrhage; pledging early to help them fund their goal but revoking that because it turns out you actually didn't give a gak about helping them fund their goal, and they dared to not throw tons of free crap at you; raging when they mysteriously have trouble fulfilling their mad workload, or when they cut corners... it's all so much bs.
What's that, Mister Hawk and co? You want a bit of up-front capital to help get some plastic moulds made? Surely. I'll contribute an amount that would be enough to get a two-fleet starter at retail or a bit below it. What's that now? You got enough money overall thanks to me and like-minded souls, and I actually get a two-fleet starter at retail or a bit below it? Very nice. I'm quite satisfied. Especially if it's basically an intro-game set 'cos that what I plan to do with it. (To coin a phrase, I'd like to help Hawk so that I can help myself)
. Definitely keeping my pledge right where it is, and looking forward to getting more when offered next summer as they launch the game!
(To coin a phrase, I'd like to help Hawk so that I can help myself)