Dropfleet Commander News - Kickstarter orders being dispatched - Ongoing!

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**Duncan_Idaho**

Personally, I'm glad that they're not doing the classic buy more! mind games perfected by Mantic and Cmon. It was fun atfirst but I'm pretty burned out with the whole roller-coaster KS thing. You're probably right that they could raise more money via aggressive addons and whatnot, but at theend of the day Id trade all that to get the product with a slight discount and within a reasonable timeframe. Instead of a wave 2 three years down the road.

The best part for FLGS is that Hawk is really serious about getting the game out into distribution, like DzC, so it's not "now or never". Folks can pick up the game pretty easily who miss it here, which in the end is better for everyone and the life of the game.

Amen.

It seems quite some KS are going down the reasonable route this day.

**overtyrant**

I'm afraid companies like Mantic and CMON (amongst others) have set a trend of throwing loads of free gak at us that the mindset of KS campaigns is now 'where and how much free gak am I getting', and not 'help us fund this project'. If you want the project to succeed and like the product then you will back it no matter if there is free stuff or not as you want the product/project to succeed.

**RiTides**

But the deal here is still very good (Great at 500k!). Doesn't have to be either/or

. Let's not get too far afield - Hawk should be putting out an update soon right? I'm really curious to know more about the orbital assets!

**Thimn**

It must be an exciting time over at the Hawk office. DZC has been steadily gaining ground in my area, and the amount of people locally getting in on Drop Fleet should make them proud of their products they are offering.

**Fireball**

I could not resist any longer ... love the UCM ships ... Commodore it is ...

**judgedoug**

I literally cannot believe people are complaining about "value".

This Kickstarter was a good value from day 1, with no stretch goals unlocked (or even known), due to the insanely amazing sculpts and the promise of an Andy Chambers ruleset.

Any free stuff is just icing on the cake.

**Hulksmash**

judgedoug wrote:
I literally cannot believe people are complaining about "value".

This Kickstarter was a good value from day 1, with no stretch goals unlocked (or even known), due to the insanely amazing sculpts and the promise of an Andy Chambers ruleset.

Any free stuff is just icing on the cake.

It cost more than it was going to cost most of us Retail on day 1. Be realistic. I'm one that will not give money in advance for something I can get cheaper when it comes out (and this is coming out even if this KS failed). But like I said, once they hit 500k I'm probably in for Commodore (was captain but they put this one up and it's better for me). But please don't pretend that this was an amazing value on day one.

**zedmeister**

Space Stations!

Update #10 - Plastic Modular Space Station Scenery Pack

We’ve hit £325K, and with this stretch goal achieved we can now unlock plastic space station kits! This kit was a long term plan that we were originally hoping to bring to players in 2017. With the success of the campaign so far, we are able to offer this scenery pack as a bolt-on. The pack was always planned to be five things: a fun part of gameplay, affordable for players, highly detailed, easy to build and modular. Injection moulded plastic allows us to achieve all this, thanks to this Kickstarter.

There will be four large sprues in the pack, featuring a wide variety of parts to create 3 large and 4 small space stations in many hundreds of combinations. These parts can be assembled in a huge variety of shapes, allowing players to make any size of space station they like, from a single massive dock to several small outposts. Because of their modular nature, multiple kits can also be combined to the point where players can make huge orbital complexes! Included in the pack are 3 large and 4 small bases. The total cost of a pack to Kickstarter backers will be £30.

The designs of the parts are currently being finalised, with a range of concept art ready to showcase. Because this scenery pack was not originally planned for the Kickstarter, we are still in the development stage. As Dave is currently completing the PHR, it is very unlikely that we will have renders by the end of the campaign. Seeing how well the campaign was going, we accelerated our timings, and Patrice is now working flat out on concepts in conjunction with Dave to narrow down the look and feel of the final result.

Early Concept work for possible Space Station variants

The final models will vary from the concepts shown. So why are we unlocking this as a stretch goal on Kickstarter, when we won’t have renders? We wanted to offer Kickstarter backers the opportunity to access the scenery pack early as due to the support the campaign has had so far we are now able to make space stations in plastic! As timely delivery is very important to us, we'd like to mention that we do not anticipate that adding this exciting new pack will affect the delivery time.

Refined concept work for Space Station Modules

Rules and scenarios for Space Stations will feature in the Rulebook, similar to the scenery packs from Dropzone Commander. These are designed to be fun expansions to the game, but larger stations could also be used in place of clusters in the main game, allowing players to land troops on them and fight for supremacy! We’re really looking forward to using them in-game, and hope to have renders completed in late December/early January at the latest.

More Module concepts for Space Station pack

Tomorrow we will have more PHR renders to share with you, and painted Shaltari miniatures should be on show towards the end of the week.

**Nostromodamus**

HELLS TO THE YES.

**zedmeister**

They looking flippin' fantastic. So happy they're doing these in plastic.

I was hoping that we'd one day see hawk being able to produce their modular building kits in plastic. These things:

Spoiler:

**judgedoug**

Hulksmash wrote:
judgedoug wrote:
I literally cannot believe people are complaining about "value".

This Kickstarter was a good value from day 1, with no stretch goals unlocked (or even known), due to the insanely amazing sculpts and the promise of an Andy Chambers ruleset.

Any free stuff is just icing on the cake.

It cost more than it was going to cost most of us Retail on day 1. Be realistic. I'm one that will not give money in advance for something I can get cheaper when it comes out (and this is coming out even if this KS failed). But like I said, once they hit 500k I'm probably in for Commodore (was captain but they put this one up and it's better for me). But please don't pretend that this was an amazing value on day one.

It certainly was. At ~$168 for captain pledge, or roughly $84 per starter set with a free large resin exclusive battleship, it was certainly worth it, as that is certainly less than retail. It's the entire reason my buddy and myself split a captain pledge when it launched because we both believed it was worth the price.
At this point in time there's been so much free gak added, that I'm worried about Hawk getting bogged down by delays ala CMON or multiple rushed wave shipments ala Mantic (with the quality to boot).
And obviously now we are getting space stations with only rough concept art, and no renders. Can't wait for the cries of 'bait and switch" when the final model is produced, after the kickstarter has ended.
But no, please, throw in more "free" stuff that will most likely reduce the overall quality of all the other components due a finite amount of skilled labor and time that must now be spread across designing and producing more and more individual "free" items!

**Mymearan**

Jesus Christ they just go from one punch to the wallet to the next... At this point I'm in for at least one Captain or Commodore, one missile add on and one space station add on...

They confirmed we can upgrade in the PM, right? Even from £1?

**Hulksmash**

judgedoug wrote:
Hulksmash wrote:
judgedoug wrote:
I literally cannot believe people are complaining about "value".

This Kickstarter was a good value from day 1, with no stretch goals unlocked (or even known), due to the insanely amazing sculpts and the promise of an Andy Chambers ruleset.

Any free stuff is just icing on the cake.

It cost more than it was going to cost most of us Retail on day 1. Be realistic. I'm one that will not give money in advance for something I can get cheaper when it comes out (and this is coming out even if this KS failed). But like I said, once they hit 500k I'm probably in for Commodore (was captain but they put this one up and it's better for me). But please don't pretend that this was an amazing value on day one.

It certainly was. At ~$168 for captain pledge, or roughly $84 per starter set with a free large resin exclusive battleship, it was certainly worth it, as that is certainly less than retail. It's the entire reason my buddy and myself split a captain pledge when it launched because we both believed it was worth the price.
At this point in time there's been so much free gak added, that I'm worried about Hawk getting bogged down by delays ala CMON or multiple rushed wave shipments ala Mantic (with the quality to boot).
And obviously now we are getting space stations with only rough concept art, and no renders. Can't wait for the cries of 'bait and switch" when the final model is produced, after the kickstarter has ended.
But no, please, throw in more "free" stuff that will most likely reduce the overall quality of all the other components due a finite amount of skilled labor and time that must now be spread across designing and producing more and more individual "free" items!

$84US is more than I would pay retail. If they are priced similar to Dropzone (likely) that's $8 more than MM. Where I don't pay shipping either. So once you add those two up and shipping you get the cost of the Battlecruiser. So it was basically retail day 1 for me (and most of the US) to hand them money 8 months out without slippage.

I'll also point out that the only free stuff added was more print runs of stuff they were making (cruisers and frigates). No additional resources for "free gak" would be needed. Everything else has been a paid bolt-ons. Now the paid bolt-ons might slow them down but don't act like it's the "free gak" as you put it that will. But by all means. Tell us how wanting a reasonable deal off what we could buy it for when it comes out makes us bad people

On a happier note Plastic Space Stations are cool and I would grab some of those for Armada even if I didn't plan on grabbing this at 500k.

**Malika2**

Man, they've already set the bar pretty high with their 10mm scale terrain, now they'll be doing the same with space terrain!

**BobtheInquisitor**

judgedoug wrote:
I literally cannot believe people are complaining about "value".

This Kickstarter was a good value from day 1, with no stretch goals unlocked (or even known), due to the insanely amazing sculpts and the promise of an Andy Chambers ruleset.

Any free stuff is just icing on the cake.

It sounds like it's not value in general that's the issue. It's value compared to the wait. People don't want to pay more now than they would through a discounted retail store a year from now for the same minis. A sprue or two apparently doesn't tip the scales towards "pay now", but the frigate bonanza does. Since the project is funded, prospective pledgers can freely wait for retail if the 'pre-order' bonus isn't attractive enough.

For the record, I've been in the whole time because I see the value and want to show the company my support from the start. This is no kickstarter for back-alley haggling for me.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I am talking about the commander pledge, of course. Not sure why everyone just assumes Captain or higher are the default pledge levels for most backers. Seems a bit unreasonable.

I hope the stations are on the pledge manager...

**Krinsath**

Has anything been said in terms of changing your pledge level in the pledge manager? I would love to go for Commodore, but that could be a bit of a financial pinch just before the holidays. Nothing that couldn't be managed, just something I'd like to avoid if there's the option to do so.

Probably end up just doing it regardless, but it couldn't hurt to know what options there are.

**Killionaire**

Let's talk 'Value'.

I bought 3 kickstarters: Sedition Wars, Robotech, and Relic Knights.

Each of these gave me something like 75% off 'MSRP'.

Let's see how much 'value' I got out of those:

Sedition Wars, a mostly unplayable game with some OK minis, mostly terribly flawed ones. Box game currently selling for 20 dollars in many online stores. VALUE: About 20% of what I expected. Late 1 year.

Robotech, a horribly bad ruleset with finicky, relatively meh models with middling quality, with 70% of the miniatures as of yet undelivered some 3+ years after. I sold nearly all of it for 25 dollars at a swap meet. VALUE: Less than 10% of what I expected. Late 3+ years and counting.

Relic Knights, a nice little game plagued by dramatic flaws in the game rules. Some models are good, others are literally garbage and had to be thrown out. Value: About 40% of what I expected. Late by 1 year.

---

Those are the 'values' I got from previous kickstarters. Given that I have actually full faith in what Hawk is delivering based on both their track record and use of technology and manufacturing that they've already succeeded in, plus solid rules writing credibility... I'm going to get a hell of a lot more value out of this kickstarter than my previous ones.

**Hulksmash**

Wrath of Kings was around 60% MSRP in the basic pledge level and is an amazing game.

For every Sedition Wars/Robotech/Relic Knights there is a Wrath of Kings/Dream Forge/Kingdom Death.

Bobtheinquisitor hit the nail on the head. It's time vs. value of my dollar. I don't give away money for free. I need a return on any investment. In this case additional models for my money or a total purchase value approaching an additional 10% or so off what I could get it for at retail. 500k gets me there.

I understand people see value in this differently. And I'm cool with it. They just don't have to pretend that people who see it differently are the devil or are unreasonable

**RiTides**

All reasonable points, let's leave the general Kickstarter discussion there (or transfer to a general thread in Dakka Discussions / etc) and go back to discussing Dropfleet, please

**Salacious Greed**

Hulksmash wrote:
Wrath of Kings was around 60% MSRP in the basic pledge level and is an amazing game.

For every Sedition Wars/Robotech/Relic Knights there is a Wrath of Kings/Dream Forge/Kingdom Death.

Bobtheinquisitor hit the nail on the head. It's time vs. value of my dollar. I don't give away money for free. I need a return on any investment. In this case additional models for my money or a total purchase value approaching an additional 10% or so off what I could get it for at retail. 500k gets me there.

I understand people see value in this differently. And I'm cool with it. They just don't have to pretend that people who see it differently are the devil or are unreasonable

I agree, I've backed some that have tanked, but gotten complete value and a good deal out of others. I just don't feel the same way as everyone white knighting this as "pledging to get it made", when all KS is really doing is removing RISK from the production of the game for the company. ** I am more than happy to debate KS in another forum, someone make a thread there, as I don't see any. I am interested in actual intellectual debate, not frothing views. **

For my money, I'd like value beyond them throwing a couple 10 cent sprues in return for me paying retail, or paying above retail minus discount. I look forward to and hope it is a great Andy Chambers ruleset, but the value is in the models, which are horribly overpriced in this KS.

*** Sorry Ritides, posted before yours hit right before mine. Not trying to derail, I happily look forward to someone wanting to debate KS, even specifically this one, in Dakka Discussions.

**BobtheInquisitor**

There is even a Kickstarter Overload? thread in Dakka Discussions...

If anyone here has read the Reconquest book, please tell me if it advances the story or fills in some of the mysteries. Do we learn anything about the White Sphere or PHR, the origin of the Scourge, or the Shaltari? Is the UCM invasion succeeding?
Will we likely see any more background advancement for DFC, or will it just be filling in the details on the spaceship side of things?

**judgedoug**

Hulksmash wrote:
For every Sedition Wars/Robotech/Relic Knights there is a Wrath of Kings/Dream Forge/Kingdom Death.

Which again, Dream Forge and Kingdom Death were how late?
I'm always concerned that a successful kickstarter is annihilated by overpromising and therefore needing multiple waves and taking years to complete.
I want Hawk to remain within their timeframe. Overpromising on new units, as I mentioned, takes a finite value (X sculptor/artist, talent) and divides it by Y (number of promised new units). So either our delivery time increases or our quality decreases.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Salacious Greed wrote:
For my money, I'd like value beyond them throwing a couple 10 cent sprues in return for me paying retail, or paying above retail minus discount. I look forward to and hope it is a great Andy Chambers ruleset, but the value is in the models, which are horribly overpriced in this KS.

I can't even begin to imagine a world where a giant pile of highly detailed 2.5 inch, 4 inch, and 6 inch multipart highly customizable models at a few dollars apiece are "horribly overpriced", especially considering we've gone well past the tipping point where the captain and above pledges are now getting piles and piles of "free" sprues.

**RiTides**

Okay, that really is enough!

As Bob mentioned, please take further discussion comparing various Kickstarters to this thread in Dakka Discussions:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/646691.page

The current thread is for discussion of the Dropfleet Kickstarter, and it's not fair to saddle it with all these external debates from other campaigns. So, please take it to that thread for further discussion along those lines...

**Killionaire**

BobtheInquisitor wrote:

If anyone here has read the Reconquest book, please tell me if it advances the story or fills in some of the mysteries. Do we learn anything about the White Sphere or PHR, the origin of the Scourge, or the Shaltari? Is the UCM invasion succeeding?
Will we likely see any more background advancement for DFC, or will it just be filling in the details on the spaceship side of things?

It seems the story is as such:
Main Rulebook: Prior history, calling out factions, everything until the moment the UCM invasion starts.
Reconquest Phase 1: The invasion up to about 10 months in. It describes all of the planets and moons that the UCM is attempting to get. It introduces recurring characters, and the resistance.

No deeper info yet on the Scourge or Shaltari. Minor PHR characterization as it indicates they're playing some other game as to the UCM, and has one of their characters plotting.

Not really a huge advance, more of the second half of setup. We'll see if their new book pushes story sometime next year.

**CthuluIsSpy**

BobtheInquisitor wrote:
There is even a Kickstarter Overload? thread in Dakka Discussions...

If anyone here has read the Reconquest book, please tell me if it advances the story or fills in some of the mysteries. Do we learn anything about the White Sphere or PHR, the origin of the Scourge, or the Shaltari? Is the UCM invasion succeeding?
Will we likely see any more background advancement for DFC, or will it just be filling in the details on the spaceship side of things?

Kind of sort of.
You don't learn that much more about the PHR or the Shaltari, but it does give a lot of detail about what happened after the scourge invasions, and the UCM attempts to reclaim lost planets.

**RiTides**

Killionaire, when you say "invasion" you mean the UCM's invasion of Scourge held worlds (aka the reconquest) right? Do you know how many years after the Scourge took over this all takes place? I've only read bits and pieces but it sounded like Resistance cells couldn't get very active until something like a hundred years had passed and the Scourge hosts became more deteriorated as the Scourge parasites themselves died.

**solkan**

RiTides wrote:
Killionaire, when you say "invasion" you mean the UCM's invasion of Scourge held worlds (aka the reconquest) right? Do you know how many years after the Scourge took over this all takes place? I've only read bits and pieces but it sounded like Resistance cells couldn't get very active until something like a hundred years had passed and the Scourge hosts became more deteriorated as the Scourge parasites themselves died.

One of the dates in Reconquest: Phase I is "In the year 2664, almost 160 years after the Scourge invasion" when talking about the UCM scouts arriving on Eden; and then the actual UCM invasion in summer 2665.

It varied by planet, but it wasn't so much that the resistance cells couldn't get very active but that they were basically at a stalemate--if they stayed out of the Scourge's way, and kept their heads down, they weren't really worth doing anything about. Bad host material and all. So it was sort of like the Scourge treating the humans like an inconvenient feral population.

**CthuluIsSpy**

RiTides wrote:
Killionaire, when you say "invasion" you mean the UCM's invasion of Scourge held worlds (aka the reconquest) right? Do you know how many years after the Scourge took over this all takes place? I've only read bits and pieces but it sounded like Resistance cells couldn't get very active until something like a hundred years had passed and the Scourge hosts became more deteriorated as the Scourge parasites themselves died.

The Scourge overran humanity 200 years ago, iirc.

Ninja'd by Solkan.

Speaking of the Resistance, are their Technicals really that derpy looking?
The gunners always seemed out of proportion to me.

**Duncan_Idaho**

Phase 1 mainly focuses on the Resistance and the first wave of the reconquest, there is little more about the other races.

**Pael**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Speaking of the Resistance, are their Technicals really that derpy looking? The gunners always seemed out of proportion to me.

I got the buses and they have the gunners on top, and they don't look too bad. When I first bought in I thought the infantry bases were going to be bad but after painting they look great.